Home The Bridge

Beyond Butter: Unfairness

Why has the Survivalist Kirk mess elicited such a strong response from some people?

I think the real reason is that it's yet another example of players being treated unfairly.

Now yes, I know STT is just a game. A game to be played for enjoyment.

That being said, I think every experienced player....who keeps playing...has had to make accommodations for being treated unfairly within the game.

The examples are everywhere: 98% shuttles failing in factions, characters with 5* Crits getting two stars....and your 25% character gets none, 5 star missions that cost 4 chronitons taking 10 iterations to get an item, buying premium reward packs ad get no Legendaries, and so on. There are a ton more examples.

The standard explanation is: Blame the RNG. The game is fair because the RNG screws everybody. This particular unfairness...well, it was just your turn this time. Over the broad universe of possible RNG outcomes...rest assured...the RNG universe is fair.

I'd say that most people make peace with this unfairness for one reason - they love Trek. So they tolerate the unfairness.

What's not tolerable is when the unfairness is not universal. That's the Survivalist Kirk mess.



Comments

  • Not much else has happened in the huge other thread other than a bunch of repetitive jokes/puns about the card.

    True, but its better than the alternative - flaming & profanity & pitchforks.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not think the number of survivalist kirks was very high. He is a great gauntlet card and yet I have seen no increase in the number of survivalist kirks in gauntlet. I have not seen a one of them in days. Were a large number of players or even a significant minority of players to have received survivalist kirk I would be seeing him but I am not.
    Let’s fly!
  • I do not think the number of survivalist kirks was very high. He is a great gauntlet card and yet I have seen no increase in the number of survivalist kirks in gauntlet. I have not seen a one of them in days. Were a large number of players or even a significant minority of players to have received survivalist kirk I would be seeing him but I am not.

    Shouldnt that have made tracking down the problem and solving it all the more easier?
  • Cranky (SC) Cranky (SC) ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not think the number of survivalist kirks was very high. He is a great gauntlet card and yet I have seen no increase in the number of survivalist kirks in gauntlet. I have not seen a one of them in days. Were a large number of players or even a significant minority of players to have received survivalist kirk I would be seeing him but I am not.

    Are we looking at the same Kirk? I've had a 1/5 for a little while and hes not once made it into a gauntlet. I'd consider him if he matched for 45 or 65% crits, but otherwise nothing to write home about.
  • edited July 2019
    I do not think the number of survivalist kirks was very high. He is a great gauntlet card and yet I have seen no increase in the number of survivalist kirks in gauntlet. I have not seen a one of them in days. Were a large number of players or even a significant minority of players to have received survivalist kirk I would be seeing him but I am not.

    Well considering he was a pack only character, if it was a new card to most players it takes time to lvl him up so we may not see an influx for a week or so.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    I do not think the number of survivalist kirks was very high. He is a great gauntlet card and yet I have seen no increase in the number of survivalist kirks in gauntlet. I have not seen a one of them in days. Were a large number of players or even a significant minority of players to have received survivalist kirk I would be seeing him but I am not.

    Are we looking at the same Kirk? I've had a 1/5 for a little while and hes not once made it into a gauntlet. I'd consider him if he matched for 45 or 65% crits, but otherwise nothing to write home about.

    Nothing to write home about!?! Science proficiency of (291-706), Engineering proficiency of (208-426) with a little Security as a third skill. Then add in all the traits. He is very useful in gauntlet. He would compete well with Caretaker and Seven while having bonus far more than both.

    Survivalist Kirk 5*

    FE/FF level 100 ENG 884 (208-426), SEC 436 (66-171), SCI 1090 (291-706)
    FE 1/5 level 100 ENG 436 (208-426), SEC 211 (66-171), SCI 700 (291-706)

    Traits: Human, Federation, Starfleet, Inspiring, Desperate, Resourceful, Hero, Survivalist, Crafty
    Let’s fly!
  • PenguinJimPenguinJim ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not think the number of survivalist kirks was very high. He is a great gauntlet card and yet I have seen no increase in the number of survivalist kirks in gauntlet. I have not seen a one of them in days. Were a large number of players or even a significant minority of players to have received survivalist kirk I would be seeing him but I am not.

    Are we looking at the same Kirk? I've had a 1/5 for a little while and hes not once made it into a gauntlet. I'd consider him if he matched for 45 or 65% crits, but otherwise nothing to write home about.

    Nothing to write home about!?! Science proficiency of (291-706), Engineering proficiency of (208-426) with a little Security as a third skill. Then add in all the traits. He is very useful in gauntlet.

    Survivalist Kirk 5*

    FE/FF level 100 ENG 884 (208-426), SEC 436 (66-171), SCI 1090 (291-706)
    FE 1/5 level 100 ENG 436 (208-426), SEC 211 (66-171), SCI 700 (291-706)

    Traits: Human, Federation, Starfleet, Inspiring, Desperate, Resourceful, Hero, Survivalist, Crafty

    Gauntlet isn't about one character's numbers. I've had Survivalist Kirk for months, and used him in Gauntlet two or three times. Caretaker is better for Eng/Sci (and even Eng/Sec!), and I've found even Seven edges ahead in most Sci combos. Sci/Sec, he's mullered by Locutus, Armus, Gangster Spock etc. He has too many stronger opponents to be a Gauntlet regular, making him dependent on his trait bonuses coming up (which they do, every month or so).

    Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have him on my roster. Oh, and you please go right ahead and keep fielding him every day. ;)
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    #DBDoButter
    Fleet: Starship Trista
    Captain Level: 95
    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
    Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
  • PenguinJimPenguinJim ✭✭✭✭✭
    #DBDoButter

    How can you talk about butter without including your sauce? :p
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    PenguinJim wrote: »
    I do not think the number of survivalist kirks was very high. He is a great gauntlet card and yet I have seen no increase in the number of survivalist kirks in gauntlet. I have not seen a one of them in days. Were a large number of players or even a significant minority of players to have received survivalist kirk I would be seeing him but I am not.

    Are we looking at the same Kirk? I've had a 1/5 for a little while and hes not once made it into a gauntlet. I'd consider him if he matched for 45 or 65% crits, but otherwise nothing to write home about.

    Nothing to write home about!?! Science proficiency of (291-706), Engineering proficiency of (208-426) with a little Security as a third skill. Then add in all the traits. He is very useful in gauntlet.

    Survivalist Kirk 5*

    FE/FF level 100 ENG 884 (208-426), SEC 436 (66-171), SCI 1090 (291-706)
    FE 1/5 level 100 ENG 436 (208-426), SEC 211 (66-171), SCI 700 (291-706)

    Traits: Human, Federation, Starfleet, Inspiring, Desperate, Resourceful, Hero, Survivalist, Crafty

    Gauntlet isn't about one character's numbers. I've had Survivalist Kirk for months, and used him in Gauntlet two or three times. Caretaker is better for Eng/Sci (and even Eng/Sec!), and I've found even Seven edges ahead in most Sci combos. Sci/Sec, he's mullered by Locutus, Armus, Gangster Spock etc. He has too many stronger opponents to be a Gauntlet regular, making him dependent on his trait bonuses coming up (which they do, every month or so).

    Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have him on my roster. Oh, and you please go right ahead and keep fielding him every day. ;)

    As much as it pains me to agree with my colleague here, I do agree that Survivalist Kirk is a second-tier gauntleteer. His SCI proficiency is pretty good but his SEC is awful low and the ENG isn’t great (though other than the Caretaker, nobody’s is). At a 25% crit he is entirely serviceable, particularly if you lack any other good SCI or SCI/ENG crew, but he’s not so different from crew like Admiral Nechayev, Crell Moset, AF Bashir, and Ushaan Archer in being overshadowed by other, stronger crew.
  • Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why has the Survivalist Kirk mess elicited such a strong response from some people? I think the real reason is that it's yet another example of players being treated unfairly.

    That is not why this issue has elicited such a strong response, this Kirk issue isn't even as bad as the issue with Annorax the week before.
  • My survivalist kirk totally woops up on caretaker when trait bonus is given for inspiring or hero. These featured traits are often. So yes, same kirk everyone is talking about.
    This was a tue only or direct purchase card so yes ppl are more angry bcuz most spent alot of di or $$ to get him and now they give him away. His trait combo is not common so this card does have many uses.
    This is one of the most expensive games. When ppl pay for something it is not out of line to expect a certain level of customer service or proper function of the item purchased.
    I have known many players who have left the game because of the “just a game” comparison statement. Ppl who play other games have left out of frustration, yet they continue to play other games and spend money on other games. So for those of us who are loyal STT players what does that tell us???
    Other games just have better RNG or probability? I think not.
    For trek fans however it is a different story. We have stuck with DB and the game because it is trek. With our fleets, we become friends with likeminded ppl who enjoy trek. It has become a home for some of us with our fleet and squad families. It is therapeutic and relaxing to enjoy time out of a busy chaotic world and find nice ppl here. Trek fans will stay, but many who are disappointed with mishaps, RNG, and continuing poor customer service (if you have experienced this) have stopped spending money.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why has the Survivalist Kirk mess elicited such a strong response from some people?

    I think the real reason is that it's yet another example of players being treated unfairly.

    Now yes, I know STT is just a game. A game to be played for enjoyment.

    That being said, I think every experienced player....who keeps playing...has had to make accommodations for being treated unfairly within the game.

    The examples are everywhere: 98% shuttles failing in factions, characters with 5* Crits getting two stars....and your 25% character gets none, 5 star missions that cost 4 chronitons taking 10 iterations to get an item, buying premium reward packs ad get no Legendaries, and so on. There are a ton more examples.

    The standard explanation is: Blame the RNG. The game is fair because the RNG screws everybody. This particular unfairness...well, it was just your turn this time. Over the broad universe of possible RNG outcomes...rest assured...the RNG universe is fair.

    I'd say that most people make peace with this unfairness for one reason - they love Trek. So they tolerate the unfairness.

    What's not tolerable is when the unfairness is not universal. That's the Survivalist Kirk mess.



    What I posted a few minutes ago in the other thread:

    Shan wrote: »
    We are running into technical difficulties and this impacts many things.
    I will update this thread when I can.

    I'm just saying. If y'all can see which Portal Packs someone opened, and what they got, you should be able to see who got the Survivalist Kirk and who did not. Just send one to everyone who did not get it. Good customer relations, as I have said before. Costs the company zero actual cash, might generate DYC sales, and most importantly? Players are happy.......
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • MirrorMartiganMirrorMartigan ✭✭✭✭
    Why has the Survivalist Kirk mess elicited such a strong response from some people?

    I think the real reason is that it's yet another example of players being treated unfairly.

    Now yes, I know STT is just a game. A game to be played for enjoyment.

    That being said, I think every experienced player....who keeps playing...has had to make accommodations for being treated unfairly within the game.

    The examples are everywhere: 98% shuttles failing in factions, characters with 5* Crits getting two stars....and your 25% character gets none, 5 star missions that cost 4 chronitons taking 10 iterations to get an item, buying premium reward packs ad get no Legendaries, and so on. There are a ton more examples.

    The standard explanation is: Blame the RNG. The game is fair because the RNG screws everybody. This particular unfairness...well, it was just your turn this time. Over the broad universe of possible RNG outcomes...rest assured...the RNG universe is fair.

    I'd say that most people make peace with this unfairness for one reason - they love Trek. So they tolerate the unfairness.

    What's not tolerable is when the unfairness is not universal. That's the Survivalist Kirk mess.



    What I posted a few minutes ago in the other thread:

    Shan wrote: »
    We are running into technical difficulties and this impacts many things.
    I will update this thread when I can.

    I'm just saying. If y'all can see which Portal Packs someone opened, and what they got, you should be able to see who got the Survivalist Kirk and who did not. Just send one to everyone who did not get it. Good customer relations, as I have said before. Costs the company zero actual cash, might generate DYC sales, and most importantly? Players are happy.......

    This. Yes. Please. After all the bad tastes left in the mouths of players over other screw ups (Picardgate and Datagate come to mind), making things right goes a long way in improving the increasing low morale of the playerbase.
  • MirrorMartiganMirrorMartigan ✭✭✭✭
    Why has the Survivalist Kirk mess elicited such a strong response from some people?

    I think the real reason is that it's yet another example of players being treated unfairly.

    Now yes, I know STT is just a game. A game to be played for enjoyment.

    That being said, I think every experienced player....who keeps playing...has had to make accommodations for being treated unfairly within the game.

    The examples are everywhere: 98% shuttles failing in factions, characters with 5* Crits getting two stars....and your 25% character gets none, 5 star missions that cost 4 chronitons taking 10 iterations to get an item, buying premium reward packs ad get no Legendaries, and so on. There are a ton more examples.

    The standard explanation is: Blame the RNG. The game is fair because the RNG screws everybody. This particular unfairness...well, it was just your turn this time. Over the broad universe of possible RNG outcomes...rest assured...the RNG universe is fair.

    I'd say that most people make peace with this unfairness for one reason - they love Trek. So they tolerate the unfairness.

    What's not tolerable is when the unfairness is not universal. That's the Survivalist Kirk mess.



    What I posted a few minutes ago in the other thread:

    Shan wrote: »
    We are running into technical difficulties and this impacts many things.
    I will update this thread when I can.

    I'm just saying. If y'all can see which Portal Packs someone opened, and what they got, you should be able to see who got the Survivalist Kirk and who did not. Just send one to everyone who did not get it. Good customer relations, as I have said before. Costs the company zero actual cash, might generate DYC sales, and most importantly? Players are happy.......

    This. Yes. Please. After all the bad tastes left in the mouths of players over other screw ups (Picardgate and Datagate come to mind), making things right goes a long way in improving the increasing low morale of the playerbase.

    While I agree with the solution and I'll add Picard-gate-2, I disagree with the statement that morale is low. There's over 2 pages of butter puns in the main thread that speak to a decent morale level. :)

    The puns have been great.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why has the Survivalist Kirk mess elicited such a strong response from some people?

    I think the real reason is that it's yet another example of players being treated unfairly.

    Now yes, I know STT is just a game. A game to be played for enjoyment.

    That being said, I think every experienced player....who keeps playing...has had to make accommodations for being treated unfairly within the game.

    The examples are everywhere: 98% shuttles failing in factions, characters with 5* Crits getting two stars....and your 25% character gets none, 5 star missions that cost 4 chronitons taking 10 iterations to get an item, buying premium reward packs ad get no Legendaries, and so on. There are a ton more examples.

    The standard explanation is: Blame the RNG. The game is fair because the RNG screws everybody. This particular unfairness...well, it was just your turn this time. Over the broad universe of possible RNG outcomes...rest assured...the RNG universe is fair.

    I'd say that most people make peace with this unfairness for one reason - they love Trek. So they tolerate the unfairness.

    What's not tolerable is when the unfairness is not universal. That's the Survivalist Kirk mess.



    What I posted a few minutes ago in the other thread:

    Shan wrote: »
    We are running into technical difficulties and this impacts many things.
    I will update this thread when I can.

    I'm just saying. If y'all can see which Portal Packs someone opened, and what they got, you should be able to see who got the Survivalist Kirk and who did not. Just send one to everyone who did not get it. Good customer relations, as I have said before. Costs the company zero actual cash, might generate DYC sales, and most importantly? Players are happy.......

    This. Yes. Please. After all the bad tastes left in the mouths of players over other screw ups (Picardgate and Datagate come to mind), making things right goes a long way in improving the increasing low morale of the playerbase.

    While I agree with the solution and I'll add Picard-gate-2, I disagree with the statement that morale is low. There's over 2 pages of butter puns in the main thread that speak to a decent morale level. :)

    The puns have been great.

    The Puns were awesome mostly.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don’t know what you’re talking about. It all seemed punintentional
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    6sxj2v8g86w1.jpeg

    HHHAAA!!!!

  • Webberoni wrote: »
    I sense that this issue has generated so much interest thanks to a borderline comical "oh no, not again?!" reaction to a failed attempt by DB to actually generate goodwill from casual players.

    Aside from that, the only irksome thing is the degree of generosity they've used to generate that goodwill. DB ordinarily place such a high value on 5* crew (too high, given the obscenely low drop rates and honor exchange rates), yet they used a relatively new and powerful 5* crew as the carrot in this particular goodwill gesture.

    The combination of yet another self-inflicted mess and the devaluation of investment from loyal players, has made the natives restless. Personally, I'm less mad about this situation and more frustrated by the apparent lack of quality control within a highly successful game that has been running for several years.

    “Devaluation of investment” has created low moral when it comes to spending for loyal players. Whats the point if they just give away the goods? Maybe the butter and other references are in a joking manner but that is an effort to make light of a situation where ppl are furious....again.
  • Bluebeard1Bluebeard1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not furious... not even mildly bothered in fact.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Issue resolved in a way that only the ones with him FF can really be upset......
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Bluebeard1Bluebeard1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cue the next round of complaining "I already had poopy face Kirk FF/FE and got another copy, it's not fair".
  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    Issue resolved in a way that only the ones with him FF can really be upset......

    I’m a packed lunch kind of guy and I’d hate to run out of butter.
    [was on Sabbatical/Hiatus] Currently a trialist at Galaxy SquadronSTAY SAFE and KBO
Sign In or Register to comment.