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Should EV Spock have Diplomat trait?

eXo | das411eXo | das411 ✭✭✭✭✭
First of all - thank you WR/TP for finally adding EV Spock!! He looks tremendous and all of these traits absolutely fit the character well:
Screenshot-20201007-122226-Star-Trek.jpg

BUT I respectfully argue that this Spock deserves the Diplomat trait too! When we see him in that scene, he has realized the Enterprise crew can't make contact with V'Ger, so he wants to mindmeld to learn more and find if there is another way to make contact:
"These messages will detail my attempt to contact the alien"...
"Who, or what, are we dealing with?" ...
"I am now quite convinced...that we are inside a living machine..."
"I must try to mindmeld with it..."


isn't that essentially what diplomacy is? The novelization makes it even more clear:
20201007-161640.jpg
20201007-161530.jpg
20201007-161458.jpg


that EV Spock and his mindmeld are when the crew learn that V'Ger is not a ship but is actually a living machine, searching for the Creator, V'Ger realizes the same, and...well no spoilers here if you haven't seen it yet :)

The only other Spock who has Diplomat is Ambassador from TNG, but I'd argue contacting an unknown species that is a direct threat to Earth is much more diplomatic than pointing a phase at some Romulans! And the only mega Diplomat we've had was Cornwell, which was well before that collection was expanded - so wouldn't Spocktober be a great time to add another?

What do we think?

Comments

  • Veterinary PhloxVeterinary Phlox ✭✭✭✭✭
    While I don't think it would be inappropriate, just because he's acting diplomatically doesn't necessarily make him a "diplomat."
    Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.

    Starport
  • Spock doesn't begin his diplomatic career until Star Trek VI, when his father encouraged him to open a dialogue with the Klingons.
  • Diplomat doesn't really fit with this version IMO, as he is trying to understand the machine's mission or goals, not trying to negotiate a peace with it.
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Exanimus wrote: »
    Are we considering the definition as the role or function? Or does the trait signify useful trained skill? (Not that it isn't already a bit inconsistent)

    Rather than diplomat, you might want to make a case for Communicator. He functions less to negotiate and more to facilitate. But I'm not entirely sure it would be warranted in this case either. I just think there is a better argument for Communicator than Diplomat.

    Meta game concerns aside, I agree completely - Communicator fits the scene far better than Diplomat. I’d present it as Communicator being indicative of trying to make meaningful contact with V’Ger, whereas a Diplomat has already established contact and is engaging or could be engaged in formal negotiations of some kind. Even if we somehow were ever to get Merging Captain Decker, I wouldn’t call him a Diplomat...he might be doing a diplomatic thing by fusing his being to that of V’Ger and the Ilia Probe but it’s not exactly formal talks at a giant table over Bularian Canapés. :)

    AviTrek does point out the other side of this discussion: the meta need for easily-completed crew to finish the Diplomat collection. It’s not like we haven’t had other crew with ill-fitting (or missing) traits, and plenty of them according to the Trait Audit Thread, due to game balance concerns taking precedence over absolute adherence to the source material. The way I see it, we got a bone thrown at us by way of the new Sarek - he’s a Diplomat that is even easier to immortalize than EV Suit Spock will be. I doubt Spock will get the same treatment, especially if we’re to receive any more Diplomats throughout the rest of the mega event.
  • KaiRoKaiRo ✭✭✭
    You may be right that it may fit, but I think the amount of traits this cards has is already high, and increasing it even more wouldn't bee that good an idea overall. What trait would you remove to allow a "Diplomat" get in?
    "Don't try to be a great man... just be a man. Let history make its own judgments."
    -- Dr. Zefram Cochrane, around 2073
  • W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    While "Communicator" fits the context better, "Diplomat" seems to be used for those that furthered interplanetary relations, trained or not. Captain Garrett is a good example of it. I'd like to see the two defined better. Can we get some official input?
    On a side note- if we ever get a "Communicator" collection, may I suggest "Hailing Frequencies Open" for a name.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    While "Communicator" fits the context better, "Diplomat" seems to be used for those that furthered interplanetary relations, trained or not. Captain Garrett is a good example of it. I'd like to see the two defined better. Can we get some official input?
    On a side note- if we ever get a "Communicator" collection, may I suggest "Hailing Frequencies Open" for a name.

    I love the name idea. But I also doubt we’ll get a Communicator collection - I just looked and we have a whopping 93 crew with that trait. If Hailing Frequencies Open were introduced today, it would be the largest collection by 5 crew over the Rare Crew collection and by 20 over the nearest trait-based collection, for Diplomats. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that by the time we would get one we might need a new reward tier structure for collections.

    If TP wanted to try out a new reward structure for giant collections, they can start with Klingons. :)
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    They can always just change the number of crew required. Plenty of collections have different numbers already.
  • W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very true on the numbers, but, as the pool of crew expands, existing collections will grow and new ones will be larger to begin with.
    Mirror and EV Suit collections and faction based like Klingon and Bajoran ("A Good Day to Die" and "The Will of the Prophets" as my name picks) are popular wants and they would be huge starting out and there are still more to add to them.
    Mirror- 48 and plenty of room to grow
    EV Suit- 11 and there is no Paris or Torres from "Day of Honor", Garak from his trip to Empok Nor, or the rest of the Enterprise crew- I think they all had the suit on at some point, Kirk, First Contact Worf and Picard, etc.
    Klingon- 83- and a bunch to go.
    Bajoran- 52- Pah Wraith Keiko isn't even on the list. Several ministers are missing and they would be diplomats too. The judge from " Dax", Li Nalas, Resistance fighters, etc. Kira's family.
    They will have to expand that far eventually and they have added new things, like citations, to the tiers. Equipment crates, Voyage and Shuttle tokens, even slots or shuttle bays could work. A shuttle bay as a high level reward for the EV Suits would be hilarious!
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
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