Home The Bridge
Options

All the Things that break the ToS

Riker's islan{DD}Riker's islan{DD} ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2021 in The Bridge
TP/WRG has set a precedent that using the game not as they intended is breach of ToS.

Based on this, we should all be aware of the items that break the ToS of the game.

To be clear:
- I use many of these myself (yes this can be taken as prrof of my breaking the ToS - sue me TP!)
- Without these items & actions the game is unplayable
- Not naming names, and request if you add to the list - you do not cross that line as well
- This is not a player attck - it is here to show the double standards that TP has applied

ToS Breaching In Game Actions:
1. Shuttle Tanking >> unintended use of feature
2. Faction Jump Start >> specific sequence / keystroke to create artifical gain
3. Intentionally failing shttles to compete dailies in super quick time >> unintended use of feature
4. Intentionally failing wininng faction shuttles to keep the timer at 30 minutes to maximise Chron generation >> specific sequence / keystroke to create artifical gain
5. Swicthing Squad Leaders to get the best share for a event >> specific sequence / keystroke to create artifical gain
6. Swicthing Squads to create event-only squad >> debatable, possible over-reach
7. Jumping into a sister fleet to help out with Starbase donations of hard to get ietms (e.g. holoemitters) >> specific sequence / keystroke to create artifical gain

Unapproved / Unsupported Access to Game Data
1. Community developed site that analyses your player data and displays various voyage options & analysis
2. Community developed sheets that analyses your player data to help you select best crew for events
3. others?

Sharing of Material without permission
1. You-tube channels that show you how to Tank, jump start etc
2. Discord channels & reddits that show, discuss & teach you to do the same
3. Any site / channel / subredit that contain in game screen shots & images taht are open to anyone to join
4. Any site that has a crew ranking system where the art used is game art, where permission to use & reprint the art is not expressely gained

ToS Sections:

PROHIBITED USES
We specifically prohibit any use of the Tilting Point Services, and require all users to agree not to use the Tilting Point Services, for any of the following:

- Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that is copyrighted or otherwise owned by a third party unless you are the copyright owner or have the permission of the owner to post it
- Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that reveals trade secrets, unless you own them or have the permission of the owner
- Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that infringes on or violates any other intellectual property, privacy, publicity or contractual right of another


SECURITY RULES
Violations of computing, system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. We will investigate occurrences and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting any user or users who are involved in such violations. You are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security and integrity of Tilting Point Services, including, without limitation, the following:

- Deciphering, decompiling, disassembling, reverse engineering or otherwise attempting to derive any code or underlying ideas or algorithms of any part of the Tilting Point Services

- Using, developing or distributing any “bot”, spider, unauthorized script, unauthorized scraper or offline reader, or any other cheat, exploit, mod, bot, hack or the like, or any unauthorized third party software designed to modify or interfere with or provide automated access to or use of the Tilting Point Services (including for purposes of accumulating “digital” or “virtual goods” or “virtual currency” or bypassing features that otherwise require payment)
Assisting, permitting or encouraging any party in engaging in any of the activities described above



So basically you know all those player / community tools we love - All are ToS Breaches!

I have used every single one that i have found on the forums, discords and sub-reddits - do your best TP ....

edited to correct format & spelling & add clarity & relevalnt ToS sections
«1

Comments

  • Options
    DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please explain how 1-3 in the first paragraph break the TOS? And 4 would even work? Failed Winning Faction Shuttles don't give Chronitons.

    Maybe instead of making wild accusations, you could provide exact parts of the TOS that make those things "illegal". If this wild dren you keep crossposting us satire, I apologise for missing the joke.

    🥌🦞
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Options
    Intentionally failing wininng faction shuttles to keep the timer at 30 minutes to maximise Chron generation
    Thank you for the tip. It's a good one to know.

    About switching squad leaders, i haven't tested it, but doesn't it work as well if you keep 1 squad leader, but switch out the shared crew after someone send a shuttle. It does take some planning and colaborating, but i believe this works as well.
  • Options
    Riker's islan{DD}Riker's islan{DD} ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021
    Please explain how 1-3 in the first paragraph break the TOS? And 4 would even work? Failed Winning Faction Shuttles don't give Chronitons.

    Maybe instead of making wild accusations, you could provide exact parts of the TOS that make those things "illegal". If this wild dren you keep crossposting us satire, I apologise for missing the joke.

    🥌🦞

    1, 2 & 3 , if failed intentionally is us as the player using a component of the game in manner that it was not intended to be used - this according to ToS is breach

    4. again - same concept, again, you pass 4 shuttles & gain chron, shuttle time increases, but if you pass two and intentionally fail two, you only get chron from 2, your timer stays below 30 minutes, so you can sit there all day if so inclinded and make chrons.
  • Options
    DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please explain how 1-3 in the first paragraph break the TOS? And 4 would even work? Failed Winning Faction Shuttles don't give Chronitons.

    Maybe instead of making wild accusations, you could provide exact parts of the TOS that make those things "illegal". If this wild dren you keep crossposting us satire, I apologise for missing the joke.

    🥌🦞

    1, 2 & 3 , if failed intentionally is us as the player using a component of the game in manner that it was not intended to be used - this according to ToS is breach

    4. again - same concept, again, you pass 4 shuttles & gain chron, shuttle time increases, but if you pass two and intentionally fail two, you only get chron from 2, your timer stays below 30 minutes, so you can sit there all day if so inclinded and make chrons.

    #2 literally would not work if you failed, intentionally or by RNG. Jump start would not advance VXP if Shuttles were failing. So, that theory is flawed off the bat.

    🥌🦞
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Options
    I mean, shuttle quick starts do have the "glitch" where they show a 2 hour timer on a shuttle that will complete in a minute. Under the precedent set today I could totally see that falling into the same category of "exploitation".
  • Options
    @DScottHewitt - i mis-replied. 1 & 3 are based on failure. 2 (tanking) is based on applying a very specific set of steps - or in other words an exploit by the very definition.

    The ToS is here: https://www.tiltingpoint.com/terms-of-service/

    And most of what i have listed falls foul of:
    PROHIBITED USES
    We specifically prohibit any use of the Tilting Point Services, and require all users to agree not to use the Tilting Point Services, for any of the following:

    - Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that is copyrighted or otherwise owned by a third party unless you are the copyright owner or have the permission of the owner to post it
    - Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that reveals trade secrets, unless you own them or have the permission of the owner
    - Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that infringes on or violates any other intellectual property, privacy, publicity or contractual right of another


    SECURITY RULES
    Violations of computing, system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. We will investigate occurrences and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting any user or users who are involved in such violations. You are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security and integrity of Tilting Point Services, including, without limitation, the following:

    - Deciphering, decompiling, disassembling, reverse engineering or otherwise attempting to derive any code or underlying ideas or algorithms of any part of the Tilting Point Services

    - Using, developing or distributing any “bot”, spider, unauthorized script, unauthorized scraper or offline reader, or any other cheat, exploit, mod, bot, hack or the like, or any unauthorized third party software designed to modify or interfere with or provide automated access to or use of the Tilting Point Services (including for purposes of accumulating “digital” or “virtual goods” or “virtual currency” or bypassing features that otherwise require payment)
    Assisting, permitting or encouraging any party in engaging in any of the activities described above
  • Options
    KanonKanon ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please explain how 1-3 in the first paragraph break the TOS? And 4 would even work? Failed Winning Faction Shuttles don't give Chronitons.

    Maybe instead of making wild accusations, you could provide exact parts of the TOS that make those things "illegal". If this wild dren you keep crossposting us satire, I apologise for missing the joke.

    🥌🦞

    1, 2 & 3 , if failed intentionally is us as the player using a component of the game in manner that it was not intended to be used - this according to ToS is breach

    4. again - same concept, again, you pass 4 shuttles & gain chron, shuttle time increases, but if you pass two and intentionally fail two, you only get chron from 2, your timer stays below 30 minutes, so you can sit there all day if so inclinded and make chrons.
    So the winning faction missions give you 5 chrons anyway, regardless of time? This is gold, 10 chrons every 30 mins. Thanks.
  • Options
    Please explain how 1-3 in the first paragraph break the TOS? And 4 would even work? Failed Winning Faction Shuttles don't give Chronitons.

    Maybe instead of making wild accusations, you could provide exact parts of the TOS that make those things "illegal". If this wild dren you keep crossposting us satire, I apologise for missing the joke.

    🥌🦞

    1, 2 & 3 , if failed intentionally is us as the player using a component of the game in manner that it was not intended to be used - this according to ToS is breach

    4. again - same concept, again, you pass 4 shuttles & gain chron, shuttle time increases, but if you pass two and intentionally fail two, you only get chron from 2, your timer stays below 30 minutes, so you can sit there all day if so inclinded and make chrons.

    Shuttle Quickstart doesn t involve any intentional failing, you open the max possible missions and use time boosts, and if you want, add Dilithium to instant recall. That‘s not a violation of ToS at all.

    And how can you tell that was not „intended“ behavior when they coded the game?

    I get ur point regarding some other of ur examples. But just using game mechanics and some strategy is not violating any ToS at all.
    •SSR Delta Flyers•
  • Options
    Riker's islan{DD}Riker's islan{DD} ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021
    Kanon wrote: »
    So the winning faction missions give you 5 chrons anyway, regardless of time? This is gold, 10 chrons every 30 mins. Thanks.

    Check out "shuttle tanking" in ready room and apply logic to winning faction in a full faction - Buyer beware - you may get banned if they find out
  • Options
    Shuttle Quickstart doesn t involve any intentional failing, you open the max possible missions and use time boosts, and if you want, add Dilithium to instant recall. That‘s not a violation of ToS at all.

    And how can you tell that was not „intended“ behavior when they coded the game?

    I get ur point regarding some other of ur examples. But just using game mechanics and some strategy is not violating any ToS at all.

    Somewhat debatable.

    When I first started out as a wee squire, I assumed that the shuttle system meant that a shuttle goes out and then comes back.

    Why would you be able to use a shuttle without unloading it?

    The Voyage system behaves more like you'd expect the shuttle system to work.
  • Options
    DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021
    @DScottHewitt - i mis-replied. 1 & 3 are based on failure. 2 (tanking) is based on applying a very specific set of steps - or in other words an exploit by the very definition.

    The ToS is here: https://www.tiltingpoint.com/terms-of-service/

    And most of what i have listed falls foul of:
    PROHIBITED USES
    We specifically prohibit any use of the Tilting Point Services, and require all users to agree not to use the Tilting Point Services, for any of the following:

    - Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that is copyrighted or otherwise owned by a third party unless you are the copyright owner or have the permission of the owner to post it
    - Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that reveals trade secrets, unless you own them or have the permission of the owner
    - Communicating, transmitting, or otherwise providing material that infringes on or violates any other intellectual property, privacy, publicity or contractual right of another


    SECURITY RULES
    Violations of computing, system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. We will investigate occurrences and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting any user or users who are involved in such violations. You are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security and integrity of Tilting Point Services, including, without limitation, the following:

    - Deciphering, decompiling, disassembling, reverse engineering or otherwise attempting to derive any code or underlying ideas or algorithms of any part of the Tilting Point Services

    - Using, developing or distributing any “bot”, spider, unauthorized script, unauthorized scraper or offline reader, or any other cheat, exploit, mod, bot, hack or the like, or any unauthorized third party software designed to modify or interfere with or provide automated access to or use of the Tilting Point Services (including for purposes of accumulating “digital” or “virtual goods” or “virtual currency” or bypassing features that otherwise require payment)
    Assisting, permitting or encouraging any party in engaging in any of the activities described above

    Nothing in that posted TOS makes #2 {jumpstarts} "illegal". I open the number of Missions the game allows me to open. I send those out for one minute deploys, four at a time. {The time duration that is set by WRG/TP, not me. I have four Shuttle Slots because we start with two, and the game has an option to buy two more for Dilithium.} I then use 3⭐ Time Boosts and Shuttle Rentals I have earned in-game to send 1.5 hour Shuttles. {The time being 1.5 hours because they are 3 hour Shuttles, and the 3⭐ Time Boosts reduce that by fifty per cent. I'm confused how using resources in the game, earned in the game, for what they are supposed to be used for in the game is an "exploit".

    Apparently, my "tone" of what I type sometimes comes across to people as "harsh". Or "mean". I swear I am not talking down to you like you are an idiot, in case my "tone" gets misread....
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Options
    Riker's islan{DD}Riker's islan{DD} ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021

    Nothing in that posted TOS makes #2 {jumpstarts} "illegal". I open the number of Missions the game allows me to open. I send those out for one minute deploys, four at a time. {The time duration that is set by WRG/TP, not me. I have four Shuttle Slots because we start with two, and the game has an option to buy two more for Dilithium.} I then use 3⭐ Time Boosts and Shuttle Rentals I have earned in-game to send 1.5 hour Shuttles. {The time being 1.5 hours because they are 3 hour Shuttles, and the 3⭐ Time Boosts reduce that by fifty per cent. I'm confused how using resources in the game, earned in the game, for what they are supposed to be used for in the game is an "exploit".

    Apparently, my "tone" of what I type sometimes comes across to people as "harsh". Or "mean". I swear I am not talking down to you like you are idiot, in case my "tone" gets misread....

    Hey @DScottHewitt - I'm not put off / put out by anything you said - i was clearing up my mistake in repling to you!

    you may be correct about the jump start - but the way I see it, is that in the s/w industry we say something is an expoit when you can use a specific set of keystrokes or a specific sequence to achive a result faster, gain higher or better rewards than programmed.

    To me this is what a Jump start is - and if you apply the ToS as they did yesterday its a breach because, if a player opens all shuttles allowed then plays 4, completes 4, plays 4 with boost, completes those and plays 4 with boost and so on, the intended behaviour is taht he time shold increase - but this is clear bug on thier side and does not increase. therefore a player can get to 4K in about 30 minutes, which would normally at least 3 hours

  • Options
    Riker's islan{DD}Riker's islan{DD} ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021
    "Buy Again" button visible, working and at no cost dispayed is not an exploit - i agreed to Buy Again at the price shown, And i did not enter any cheat codes or sequence to make the button appear- it was just there - so i clicked - a whole lotta times
  • Options
    TP/WRG has set a precedent that using the game not as they intended is breach of ToS.

    Based on this, we should all be aware of the items that break the ToS of the game.

    To be clear:
    - I use many of these myself (yes this can be taken as prrof of my breaking the ToS - sue me TP!)
    - Without these items & actions the game is unplayable
    - Not naming names, and request if you add to the list - you do not cross that line as well
    - This is not a player attck - it is here to show the double standards that TP has applied

    ToS Breaching In Game Actions:
    1. Shuttle Tanking
    2. Faction Jump Start
    3. Intentionally failing shttles to compete dailies in super quick time
    4. Intentionally failing wininng faction shuttles to keep the timer at 30 minutes to maximise Chron generation
    5. Swicthing Squad Leaders to get the best share for a event
    6. Swicthing Squads to create event-only squad
    7. Jumping into a sister fleet to help out with Starbase donations of hard to get ietms (e.g. holoemitters)

    Unapproved / Unsupported Access to Game Data
    1. Community developed site that analyses your player data and displays various voyage options & analysis
    2. Community developed sheets that analyses your player data to help you select best crew for events
    3. others?

    Sharing of Material without permission
    1. You-tube channels that show you how to Tank, jump start etc
    2. Discord channels & reddits that show, discuss & teach you to do the same
    3. Any site / channel / subredit that contain in game screen shots & images taht are open to anyone to join
    4. Any site that has a crew ranking system where the art used is game art, where permission to use & reprint the art is not expressely gained


    So basically you know all those player / community tools we love - All are ToS Breaches!

    I have used every single one that i have found on the forums, discords and sub-reddits - do your best TP ....

    edited to correct format & spelling

    you are basing this on !?
  • Options

    you are basing this on !?

    original post edited to clarify - ToS added
  • Options
    DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nothing in that posted TOS makes #2 {jumpstarts} "illegal". I open the number of Missions the game allows me to open. I send those out for one minute deploys, four at a time. {The time duration that is set by WRG/TP, not me. I have four Shuttle Slots because we start with two, and the game has an option to buy two more for Dilithium.} I then use 3⭐ Time Boosts and Shuttle Rentals I have earned in-game to send 1.5 hour Shuttles. {The time being 1.5 hours because they are 3 hour Shuttles, and the 3⭐ Time Boosts reduce that by fifty per cent. I'm confused how using resources in the game, earned in the game, for what they are supposed to be used for in the game is an "exploit".

    Apparently, my "tone" of what I type sometimes comes across to people as "harsh". Or "mean". I swear I am not talking down to you like you are idiot, in case my "tone" gets misread....

    Hey @DScottHewitt - I'm not put off / put out by anything you said - i was clearing up my mistake in repling to you!

    you may be correct about the jump start - but the way I see it, is that in the s/w industry we say something is an expoit when you can use a specific set of keystrokes or a specific sequence to achive a result faster, gain higher or better rewards than programmed.

    To me this is what a Jump start is - and if you apply the ToS as they did yesterday its a breach because, if a player opens all shuttles allowed then plays 4, completes 4, plays 4 with boost, completes those and plays 4 with boost and so on, the intended behaviour is taht he time shold increase - but this is clear bug on thier side and does not increase. therefore a player can get to 4K in about 30 minutes, which would normally at least 3 hours

    I detailed here and in the other thread where your theory was posted the way I do it. I complete all the one minute Shuttles before I start sending 1.5 hour Boosted Shuttles. And it is well after half an hour before I start getting 4000 VXP. I've never used any of those combos other players post that involve manipulation of the batches of Shuttles in other ways. I {usually} don't jump very high doing my jumpstart pattern. I'm not even sure it actually is a "jumpstart", as others define it. Because I do not do anything but send out Shuttles within the game mechanics. Once I do those opening one minute Shuttles, I only open and send what I can send in a batch, together. If I have four Rental Tokens, I send eight Shuttles with 1.5 hour Boosts. I don't open Shuttles, send some, then open more and use them later, so they have shorter times than they should. My only shorter than normal Shuttles are ones with Time Boosts. Am I using time Boosts to get Shuttles back faster? Yes. Is that their purpose in game? Yes. Am I sending more than four Shuttles when I have Rental Tokens {early on, before I don't have Crew that can staff more than four successful Shuttles}? Yes. Is the purpose of the Rental Tokens to allow us to use extra Shuttles beyond our Shuttle Slots? Yes.

    Yesterday was an exception. The only reason I got into top 100 was because the Banhammer was swung far and wide. I know players that were ahead of me fell below my ranking because of the bans. I even commented in one of the threads that I do not consider any rank I get this Event to be a "win". Because of the bans.

    If WRG/TP can demonstrate {clearly & honestly} that using Boosts and Tokens during Faction Events somehow violates TOS, I will stop using them, even if no one else does.......

    🥌🦞

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Options
    I think your jumpstart is actually not optimized, but whatever.

    It's one of those things that have been around forever, but it's a strange design when compared to voyages.
  • Options
    @DScottHewitt - your JS is a straight line process relying on boosts. The JS i am referring to is different - and involves opening shuttles, sending specific number, then opening moer, completing those with bosst etc and then comingback to the 1 minute ones - this is specifc key stroke pattern - your is not.
  • Options
    ·§ë· For the Many·§ë· For the Many ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021
    :expressionless:

    Choosing shuttle timing based on success or failure or opening and sending shuttles in a pattern based on the game mechanics to efficiently get to 4K VP event missions is not exploitation. It's just strategy.

    Why is the default “intended” to send event shuttles without strategy? All that’s intended is we send shuttles and get rewards. 10-11 successes are intended to bring us to 90 min shuttles that give 150 points. So that what I do, I get to that number of successes so that I can send shuttles of that length with their corresponding time boosts.

    Who ever said in TOS I must go for only 3h missions and am not allowed to run short ones instead? As captain and our ship needs some basic items, I can send our crew to go on shorter missions for them. Or longer missions if we need big stuff that’s farther away.

    We don’t need to make things out to be exploits that aren't, just to say that tapping on a “buy again” button to.. buy it again (wild concept, I know) isn’t an exploit or bannable offense either.
  • Options
    eXo | RamzaeXo | Ramza ✭✭✭
    edited February 2021
    :expressionless:

    Choosing shuttle timing based on success or failure or opening and sending shuttles in a pattern based on the game mechanics to efficiently get to 4K VP event missions is not exploitation. It's just strategy.

    Why is the default “intended” to send event shuttles without strategy? All that’s intended is we send shuttles and get rewards. 10-11 successes are intended to bring us to 90 min shuttles that give 150 points. So that what I do, I get to that number of successes so that I can send shuttles of that length with their corresponding time boosts.

    Who ever said in TOS I must go for only 3h missions and am not allowed to run short ones instead? As captain and our ship needs some basic items, I can send our crew to go on shorter missions for them. Or longer missions if we need big stuff that’s farther away.

    We don’t need to make things out to be exploits that aren't, just to say that tapping on a “buy again” button to.. buy it again (wild concept, I know) isn’t an exploit or bannable offense either.

    The question comes down to whether the game designers wanted it to work that way and if it is fair competition from a gameplay perspective.

    Technically, they'd make a hell of a lot more money if they didn't allow jumpstarts and forced you to only use your 3 or 4 shuttles and the rent-a-boats.
    All VP differentiation would have to go through either collected or purchased items and RNG.
    So maybe they don't like it.

    But it's also not an easily findable gameplay feature either.
    I didn't learn about it until 3 or 4 events into the events (yes, a million years ago), so that means that some players might be spending Dil to try to catch up.

    Is it a strategy? Sure.
    Is it fair and obvious? Nehhhh.

    There's a good argument that they would try to reverse the way shuttles are built now if there weren't so much precedent.
    And much like the make-a-bunch-of-mission-items galaxy exploit and the randomly changing skirmish rules, change could happen.
  • Options
    To clarify, I probably would have hit the "buy again" button myself because it was there. I would not have gone and told my fleet to take advantage of the glitch. And I probably would have questioned hitting it agai. After the 3rd or 4th time with no cost to me. TP does need to take responsibility for the coding error but we need to take responsibility for our actions
  • Options
    You know, sometimes if you craft items slowly, you'll discover that combining 2 items only takes one item from your inventory. Since I know that, when I take advantage of that feature (or is it a bug), am I not exploiting the system? I suppose I should be banned for that. No big deal, I'm banning myself.
  • Options
    This Sisko1This Sisko1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The feature was new. Possible the first time some had even seen it. Probably thought it was taking credits. In any case it was a on the game's end that messed up.
  • Options
    How about when you're building/crafting an expensive item that a 5* crewmember needs to get from level 90 to level 100. If you go to the lowest level of the build at the 0* item-level craft your way up, then click your way back down and build up again, more times than not you can build the component with far less resources than you'd have used by using the "auto build" button.

    That's a bug, it gets exploited every day. I suppose that deserves the 72 hour ban hammer too in WRG's "infinite wisdom".
    01000010 01101001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100001
  • Options
    Yup, the "slow build" bug was my first idea for this thread as well.
  • Options
    BarnBurnerBarnBurner ✭✭✭✭
    The best part about this thread is that there is someone at wrg reading it right now and working in fixes for the exploits.

    But they wont fix their god damn bugs.
Sign In or Register to comment.