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Not all RNGs are the same or odds are just wrong

Random is random right? But still I have to wonder what craziness is going on roll wise. I fail 99% missions pretty regularly, but am yet to ever get a prize from the top row of the dabo wheel which is supposedly a 1.28% chance. I don't spend much dil there ever, at most I have done 50 dil. but even with the extra spins, probably roughly 600 or so total I have not once seen a top row reward yet have failed 3 of 4 99% missions more than once. Am I alone here, just have a cursed crew?

Comments

  • I am aware of how the tables work, I would assume they are using something you can seed (not javascript) and at a bare minimum seeding with a timestamp. Where I was going, and the random is random was a bit of a joke, is that failing as often as I do with 99% shuttle missions (assuming the bug that would show them as 100% was really 99%) you would think I could roll on that top row at least once.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am aware of how the tables work, I would assume they are using something you can seed (not javascript) and at a bare minimum seeding with a timestamp. Where I was going, and the random is random was a bit of a joke, is that failing as often as I do with 99% shuttle missions (assuming the bug that would show them as 100% was really 99%) you would think I could roll on that top row at least once.

    I totally get what you’re saying and you have a great point. The RNG only swings wildly in the negative way. If you really have failed 3 out of 4 99% shuttles at one point you should have hit the top row a few times

  • I am aware of how the tables work, I would assume they are using something you can seed (not javascript) and at a bare minimum seeding with a timestamp. Where I was going, and the random is random was a bit of a joke, is that failing as often as I do with 99% shuttle missions (assuming the bug that would show them as 100% was really 99%) you would think I could roll on that top row at least once.

    I totally get what you’re saying and you have a great point. The RNG only swings wildly in the negative way. If you really have failed 3 out of 4 99% shuttles at one point you should have hit the top row a few times

    Most likely the shuttle numbers are just plain wrong, or for some reason they are rolling like 1 - 101 or something.
  • 6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Check out our website to find out more:
    https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • 6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜

    Same here, working in 13th month , at least 1, often 2rolls per day. Never hit an upper row in dabo. That being said, 5 of the 7 days a week I seem to always get ship schems on 2nd row, which is a great deal more than ever landing on 1rst row.
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜

    Same here, working in 13th month , at least 1, often 2rolls per day. Never hit an upper row in dabo. That being said, 5 of the 7 days a week I seem to always get ship schems on 2nd row, which is a great deal more than ever landing on 1rst row.

    Yep, I just max-leveled the USS Defiant yesterday via Dabo 2nd row, which made me happy. Of course, the 3rd row had 2 of my wishlist cards, but c’est la vie. 🖖🏻
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • 6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜

    Yes, it does seem a bit rubbish. I should say I got a super-rare piece of equipment, not a crew card so I don't really know what the drop rates are supposed to be for Dabo at all.
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Check out our website to find out more:
    https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜

    Yes, it does seem a bit rubbish. I should say I got a super-rare piece of equipment, not a crew card so I don't really know what the drop rates are supposed to be for Dabo at all.

    From the Wiki, last edit 30-01-2018:

    Top row: 1.28%
    Midde: 35.12%
    Bottom: 63.6%

    Link: https://stt.wiki/wiki/Time_Portal#Dabo_Wheel
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • I am aware of how the tables work, I would assume they are using something you can seed (not javascript) and at a bare minimum seeding with a timestamp. Where I was going, and the random is random was a bit of a joke, is that failing as often as I do with 99% shuttle missions (assuming the bug that would show them as 100% was really 99%) you would think I could roll on that top row at least once.

    If I recall correctly, Dabo wheel odds were changed somewhere around July-August 2016. Haven't hit top row since. So that's in the neighborhood of 550 spins now.

    Maybe I used up all my luck in the pre-nerf era? Got a purple and a top row equipment in the ~4 months before DB made changes. #JusticeForDabo :p

    And I get the point you're after better now, but DBNG is probably not consistent across all aspects of game play. Or at least I don't expect an odds faceplant in one part of the game to be rectified by another aspect of game play. That's probably some gambler's fallacy type expectation there. As terrible as DBNG is, it's easy to fall into observation bias.

    But yes, random is a joke, especially when invoked by CS reps. *insert "you keep using that word" meme here*
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜

    Yes, it does seem a bit rubbish. I should say I got a super-rare piece of equipment, not a crew card so I don't really know what the drop rates are supposed to be for Dabo at all.

    From the Wiki, last edit 30-01-2018:

    Top row: 1.28%
    Midde: 35.12%
    Bottom: 63.6%

    Link: https://stt.wiki/wiki/Time_Portal#Dabo_Wheel

    By these odds, with each person spinning at least 365 times per year, the average should be each person hitting the top row 3 times per year. I will bet not one of us has hit the top row three times in a year unless someone has multiple spun until they hit the top row intentionally.

  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem is not RNG and not sure why people keep blaming RNG. It is the algorithm.

    Why getting 3rd streak of gauntlet is harder?
    Why you keep getting walls of same characters?
    Why your shuttles fail at 99%?
    Why it is almost impossible to get anything the top row in daboo?
    Why you keep getting the same duplicate crews even though you still have 200-300 crews not immortalized?

    There is RNG in play of course but algorithm controls the weight of it. And guess who implemented that lovely algorithm?

    1) Because your crew is more fatigued from the prior two rounds. No one, to my knowledge, has presented any statistical evidence showing that the third round of gauntlets are any less likely to win than you would have otherwise.
    2) Because people have and use the same, most powerful characters.
    3) The statistics Hope has compiled on shuttle success display rates being wrong are pretty compelling. I'm pretty sure there's a discrepancy between the shuttle success algorithm and the algorithm used to display expected success.
    4) Because no one wins at dabo
    5) This is a good explanation of a similar "problem": https://betterexplained.com/articles/understanding-the-birthday-paradox/. Simply put, the odds of it happening are significantly higher than you give it credit for.
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜

    Yes, it does seem a bit rubbish. I should say I got a super-rare piece of equipment, not a crew card so I don't really know what the drop rates are supposed to be for Dabo at all.

    From the Wiki, last edit 30-01-2018:

    Top row: 1.28%
    Midde: 35.12%
    Bottom: 63.6%

    Link: https://stt.wiki/wiki/Time_Portal#Dabo_Wheel

    By these odds, with each person spinning at least 365 times per year, the average should be each person hitting the top row 3 times per year. I will bet not one of us has hit the top row three times in a year unless someone has multiple spun until they hit the top row intentionally.

    I once hit the top row twice in a week. All only doing the single credit pull. It happens, but it's rare. Rare events can be streaky. Just because you've been unlucky doesn't mean someone else hasn't been lucky.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    6 months of Dabo = 30 x 6 = 180 rolls. I have hit it once. That is well within the realms of probability if it is truly random.

    That is, 5000 credits x 180 = 900,000 credits. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just a very slow way of potentially getting a random fun thing. Expect a bit of excitement once every 3 to 6 months.

    13 months, at least 1 roll per day, and I have yet to hit the top tier on Dabo. I suppose I am due for more than a “bit”. Perhaps a byte? 🔜

    Yes, it does seem a bit rubbish. I should say I got a super-rare piece of equipment, not a crew card so I don't really know what the drop rates are supposed to be for Dabo at all.

    From the Wiki, last edit 30-01-2018:

    Top row: 1.28%
    Midde: 35.12%
    Bottom: 63.6%

    Link: https://stt.wiki/wiki/Time_Portal#Dabo_Wheel

    By these odds, with each person spinning at least 365 times per year, the average should be each person hitting the top row 3 times per year. I will bet not one of us has hit the top row three times in a year unless someone has multiple spun until they hit the top row intentionally.

    I once hit the top row twice in a week. All only doing the single credit pull. It happens, but it's rare. Rare events can be streaky. Just because you've been unlucky doesn't mean someone else hasn't been lucky.

    I stand by my statement I would be willing to bet money not one of us has hit the top row three times in a year.

  • [10F] Belle'Anna [10F] Belle'Anna ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    The problem is not RNG and not sure why people keep blaming RNG. It is the algorithm.

    Why getting 3rd streak of gauntlet is harder?
    Why you keep getting walls of same characters?
    Why your shuttles fail at 99%?
    Why it is almost impossible to get anything the top row in daboo?
    Why you keep getting the same duplicate crews even though you still have 200-300 crews not immortalized?

    There is RNG in play of course but algorithm controls the weight of it. And guess who implemented that lovely algorithm?

    1) Because your crew is more fatigued from the prior two rounds. No one, to my knowledge, has presented any statistical evidence showing that the third round of gauntlets are any less likely to win than you would have otherwise.
    2) Because people have and use the same, most powerful characters.
    3) The statistics Hope has compiled on shuttle success display rates being wrong are pretty compelling. I'm pretty sure there's a discrepancy between the shuttle success algorithm and the algorithm used to display expected success.
    4) Because no one wins at dabo
    5) This is a good explanation of a similar "problem": https://betterexplained.com/articles/understanding-the-birthday-paradox/. Simply put, the odds of it happening are significantly higher than you give it credit for.

    1/ nah. You can wait til your crew is not fatigued and it's always harder.

    2/ happens more when you hit the top 20-30 and sticks around. Up til then there is lots of variety.

    3/ I had a 99/99/97 failure. Statistically extremely unlikely. Shuttles are weird. Everybody knows it.

    4/ Haha. The tables are rigged. I learned that from Quark.

    5/ I find it harder to fully fuse crew than get a new card. It depends on your crew. I worked out the odds for super-rares (for my crew) and it's something like having a 25% chance of getting a card I already have. Some of them are already fully fused. I stand a much greater chance of getting a new card or an existing card than adding a star. I basically need more crew slots.
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Check out our website to find out more:
    https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem is not RNG and not sure why people keep blaming RNG. It is the algorithm.

    Why getting 3rd streak of gauntlet is harder?
    Why you keep getting walls of same characters?
    Why your shuttles fail at 99%?
    Why it is almost impossible to get anything the top row in daboo?
    Why you keep getting the same duplicate crews even though you still have 200-300 crews not immortalized?

    There is RNG in play of course but algorithm controls the weight of it. And guess who implemented that lovely algorithm?

    1) Because your crew is more fatigued from the prior two rounds. No one, to my knowledge, has presented any statistical evidence showing that the third round of gauntlets are any less likely to win than you would have otherwise.
    2) Because people have and use the same, most powerful characters.
    3) The statistics Hope has compiled on shuttle success display rates being wrong are pretty compelling. I'm pretty sure there's a discrepancy between the shuttle success algorithm and the algorithm used to display expected success.
    4) Because no one wins at dabo
    5) This is a good explanation of a similar "problem": https://betterexplained.com/articles/understanding-the-birthday-paradox/. Simply put, the odds of it happening are significantly higher than you give it credit for.

    1/ nah. You can wait til your crew is not fatigued and it's always harder.

    2/ happens more when you hit the top 20-30 and sticks around. Up til then there is lots of variety.

    3/ I had a 99/99/97 failure. Statistically extremely unlikely. Shuttles are weird. Everybody knows it.

    4/ Haha. The tables are rigged. I learned that from Quark.

    5/ I find it harder to fully fuse crew than get a new card. It depends on your crew. I worked out the odds for super-rares (for my crew) and it's something like having a 25% chance of getting a card I already have. Some of them are already fully fused. I stand a much greater chance of getting a new card or an existing card than adding a star. I basically need more crew slots.

    RE #2: Yes, I would expect the top 20-30 people in any given gauntlet to be running most of the same crew since there is almost always a "best" team for any given gauntlet. Those with the best crew tend to bubble up to the top. Those with worse crew do worse.
  • edited February 2018
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