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Incorrectly alphabetized crew in v4 vault

I just noticed changeling Bashir is under 'C' rather than by Bashir. Probably an oversight and I'm sure they are more...
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  • edited February 2018
    I just downloaded the latest version of Timelines, and I see that most crew are in alphabetical order by persona name, except Anastasia Komananov is showing up under "Anastasia" instead of the "Kira" section.
  • guest_7456guest_7456 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    See also:
    Benny Russell
    Changeling bashir
    Ezri has eddington in the middle of her group
    friar tuck data
    hippocrates noah
    prospero data
    the president of earth
    the trois are all messed up.

    And a few that are in alpha order by their given name unlike most of the crew:
    arik soong
    cyrus redblock
    dr. gillian taylor
    david marcus
    feezal phlox
    mirror jennifer sisko
    jake sisko
    botanist keiko (ishikawa/o'brien)
    lily sloane
    marla mcgivers
    miral torres
    naomi wildman
    rianna mayweather
    riley frazier
    the keeper (sorted by the)
    the traveler (sorted by the)
    vic fontaine
    wes crusher
    dr. toby russell (sorted by dr.)

    also consider:
    alexander (Rozhenko)

    and of course discovery spoiler:
    Ash Tyler should be down with Voq. (And have the Klingon and Undercover Operative traits)
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    guest_7456 wrote: »
    Ezri has eddington in the middle of her group

    Yeah, I was going to mention that, as well. It's because two versions of her are listed as "E. Dax" and the others as "Ezri".
    01w42a53zpcu.jpg

    guest_7456 wrote: »
    Changeling bashir

    Well, this one I don't think should be moved to the Bashir section, since he doesn't qualify as a Bashir variant. In fact, his display name should probably be changed to "Bashir Changeling".

    However, a multitude of others need fixing: Duchamps should be sorted by Worfs, Locutus & Dixon Hill & Robin Hood should be sorted by Picards, Anastasia should be sorted by Kira, etc., etc. (You'll also notice in the screenshot above that Falcon O'Brien is sorted by Falcon, which makes no sense, since "O'Brien" is part of the character name!) Seriously, DB — it's dumb that this is still going on. It would take one coder (or even an intern) maybe an hour to change the "sort by" database field (or however it's set up) in all of the affected crew to be more consistent. Heck, give me remote access, I'll do it in my spare time, for free!


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Black PebbleBlack Pebble ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    For Duchamps, Falcon, etc, the reason they’re sorting differently is they’re not considered O’Briens, Worfs. They’re not those crew in disguise, or holodeck creations inspired by the crew. They’re the result of a transporter accident that fused some the physical characteristics of the crew to the holodeck simulation. This is the same reason they’re not considered as variants for events.

    Whether they should be grouped for easier sorting purposes in Cryostasis 2.0 is a different discussion.

    Ezri, Eddington, Data, etc are a separate issue/bug from that.
    Hosun Lee
    Civilian, Brand and Marketing
    Ex-Disruptor Beam
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    But they have been variants for events in the past. Komananov was a bonus crew in Aktirian Job 2 when Kira was the event crew. And in the previous version Duschamps, Honey Bare, Falcon, Komananov, and Noah all were listed with the other variants for Worf, Jadzia, O'Brien, Kira, and Sisko.
  • Black PebbleBlack Pebble ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    But they have been variants for events in the past. Komananov was a bonus crew in Aktirian Job 2 when Kira was the event crew. And in the previous version Duschamps, Honey Bare, Falcon, Komananov, and Noah all were listed with the other variants for Worf, Jadzia, O'Brien, Kira, and Sisko.

    You are correct that in many prior events, they were eligible as variant crew. I was mistaken on that point.

    Let me confirm with the design team on that point tomorrow. My recollection was that there would be a distinction between the crew, but I may have misunderstood something.
    Hosun Lee
    Civilian, Brand and Marketing
    Ex-Disruptor Beam
  • Lilac Erosion Lilac Erosion ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Some issue with surname name vs given name. I suggest you get out a style manual and follow those rules.

    KDF Alexander- His last name is Rozhenko
    Arik Soong
    Cyrus Redblock
    Danara Pel
    Dr. David Marcus
    Dr. Toby Russell
    Dr. Gillian Taylor
    Friar Tuck Data (not a surname issue but he should be with the other versions of Data)
    Dr. Hippocrates Noah (even if you don't put him with Sisko he should be under N not H)
    Jake Sisko (all version should be under S not J)
    Mirror Jennifer Sisko
    Botanist Keiko is an O'Brian
    Khan Noonien Singh - Khan is his given name
    Lily Sloane
    Leonardo da Vinci (serious you got that under L????)
    The President of Earth (should be with the other version of the Doctor)
    Prospero Data (also should be with the other versions of Data)
    Vic Fontaine
    Wesley Crusher sorted by Wesley and not Crusher.
    Sincerely,

    Lilac Erosion

    7TH Tactical Wing

    Maybe the irony is that we play because we’re Star Trek fans, those hopeful idealists that like to think things will get better when we raise valid concerns about fairness and balance, etc and we forget that DB’s greed openly mocks the values espoused by the franchise they have a license
    -Lord Wizzlestix IT
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    For Duchamps, Falcon, etc, the reason they’re sorting differently is they’re not considered O’Briens, Worfs. They’re not those crew in disguise, or holodeck creations inspired by the crew. They’re the result of a transporter accident that fused some the physical characteristics of the crew to the holodeck simulation. This is the same reason they’re not considered as variants for events.

    Whether they should be grouped for easier sorting purposes in Cryostasis 2.0 is a different discussion.

    Ezri, Eddington, Data, etc are a separate issue/bug from that.

    Events where they have been bonus:

    Heavy Lies the Crown (Honey Bare/Jadzia Dax)
    The Akritirian Job 2 (Anastasia/Kira)
    Gates of Hell (Duchamps/Worf)
    Second Act 2 (Anastasia/Kira)
    Contingency Plan 2 (Duchamps/Worf)
    When Giants Walk (Duchamps/Worf)
    Guilty As Charged (Falcon/O'Brien)
    Second Battle of New York 2 (Falcon/O'Brien)
    Trouble with Klingons 3 (Both Benny Russell and Noah/Sisko)
    Ship of Memory (Noah/Sisko, was the introduction of Benny)

    On the same vein but not from the episode Our Man Bashir, you also have Locutus who has always been a Picard variant for events, such as Convergence Day, Resistance and several other events, also alphabetized and grouped in L rather than with Picard.
    Changeling Bashir, though truly a Founder in disguise as Bashir, as also always been useable as a Bashir variant for bonus in such events as the Second Battle of New York 1 and 2, Homestead, etc.

  • RaraRacingRaraRacing ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some issue with surname name vs given name. I suggest you get out a style manual and follow those rules.

    KDF Alexander- His last name is Rozhenko
    Arik Soong
    Cyrus Redblock
    Danara Pel
    Dr. David Marcus
    Dr. Toby Russell
    Dr. Gillian Taylor
    Friar Tuck Data (not a surname issue but he should be with the other versions of Data)
    Dr. Hippocrates Noah (even if you don't put him with Sisko he should be under N not H)
    Jake Sisko (all version should be under S not J)
    Mirror Jennifer Sisko
    Botanist Keiko is an O'Brian
    Khan Noonien Singh - Khan is his given name
    Lily Sloane
    Leonardo da Vinci (serious you got that under L????)
    The President of Earth (should be with the other version of the Doctor)
    Prospero Data (also should be with the other versions of Data)
    Vic Fontaine
    Wesley Crusher sorted by Wesley and not Crusher.

    The Lursa and B'Etor should find a spot right beside "The Duras Sisters" in the picture put up by Data1001.
  • Black PebbleBlack Pebble ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Okay I had a chance to chat with some folks about this. There are a couple of different bugs going on that are contributing to the inconsistent sorting. Some are new, and some were introduced with 4.0.

    • Inconsistencies in how crew are identified.
    • Sorting working differently if you use a filter versus not using a filter.
    • Another bug that affects filters, based on whether you have the crew or not.

    My understanding is it will require a client update, which means it won't be fixed in time for the force upgrade
    Hosun Lee
    Civilian, Brand and Marketing
    Ex-Disruptor Beam
  • Okay I had a chance to chat with some folks about this. There are a couple of different bugs going on that are contributing to the inconsistent sorting. Some are new, and some were introduced with 4.0.

    • Inconsistencies in how crew are identified.
    • Sorting working differently if you use a filter versus not using a filter.
    • Another bug that affects filters, based on whether you have the crew or not.

    My understanding is it will require a client update, which means it won't be fixed in time for the force upgrade

    @Black Pebble can you please confirm the intended sorting of a non filter sort? Is it strict alphabetical? If so what title is being used?
    Sincerely,

    Lilac Erosion

    7TH Tactical Wing

    Maybe the irony is that we play because we’re Star Trek fans, those hopeful idealists that like to think things will get better when we raise valid concerns about fairness and balance, etc and we forget that DB’s greed openly mocks the values espoused by the franchise they have a license
    -Lord Wizzlestix IT
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Some issue with surname name vs given name. I suggest you get out a style manual and follow those rules.

    Arik Soong
    Cyrus Redblock
    Danara Pel
    Dr. David Marcus
    Dr. Toby Russell
    Dr. Gillian Taylor
    Dr. Hippocrates Noah (even if you don't put him with Sisko he should be under N not H)
    Jake Sisko (all version should be under S not J)
    Mirror Jennifer Sisko
    Botanist Keiko is an O'Brian
    Khan Noonien Singh - Khan is his given name
    Lily Sloane
    Vic Fontaine
    Wesley Crusher sorted by Wesley and not Crusher.

    In the case of family members with the same surname, I don't think they should be sorted/grouped together. Sorting & searching by base name should ideally be the same in both the crew quarters and the vault, and if I search for "Sisko", I don't want to see my Jakes (or Jennifer) pop up — just Benjamin. Each unique base character needs to have their own unique base character name. Thus, Keiko should not appear with Miles, Wesley should not appear with Beverly, etc. And this also means that Arik is named thusly so as not to have the same base name as Dr. Soong.

    For other characters, their base name is the name we most frequently associate with them. For example, not many players would try finding Vic under "F" for Fontaine, or Khan under "S" for Singh. I don't have a problem with first names being used as base names, as long as those names are the common way we refer to that character, and are self-evident.
    Leonardo da Vinci (serious you got that under L????)

    Though this may seem to contradict the paragraph above, this is actually accurate: "da Vinci" is not his surname, as it means "from Vinci" — nearly every modern scholar agrees that when shortening his name, he should always be referred to as "Leonardo" and not as "da Vinci".


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    RaraRacing wrote: »
    The Lursa and B'Etor should find a spot right beside "The Duras Sisters" in the picture put up by Data1001.

    I would argue that they shouldn't, and they shouldn't have Duras in their names. Duras is not their surname, it's their brother's name.
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Dralix wrote: »
    RaraRacing wrote: »
    The Lursa and B'Etor should find a spot right beside "The Duras Sisters" in the picture put up by Data1001.

    I would argue that they shouldn't, and they shouldn't have Duras in their names. Duras is not their surname, it's their brother's name.

    I was completely clueless about this, so I just looked it up on Memory Alpha, and found the following entry (text bolding mine):

    B'Etor was a female Klingon officer of the 24th century Klingon Empire and member of the House of Duras. She was the younger of the two Duras sisters, herself and Lursa, sister of Duras and daughter of Ja'rod. Through Duras, she had a nephew, Toral.

    So it seems you're both correct, sort of. ;)

    Edit: But I still don't think distinct characters with the same last name should be grouped/sorted together — they need to have distinct "sort by" names.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    It's a bit fuzzy in the on screen presentation. Worf and Kurn weren't called Worf Mogh and Kurn Mogh. I take "Duras Sisters" to be a short form for "Sisters of Duras" or "Sisters of the House of Duras."
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Edit: But I still don't think distinct characters with the same last name should be grouped/sorted together — they need to have distinct "sort by" names.

    100% agree with this.

    EDIT: Also agree that base name should be the common name when it's different than the surname. The forum would take up the torches and pitchforks if Khan was sorted under S.
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Okay I had a chance to chat with some folks about this. There are a couple of different bugs going on that are contributing to the inconsistent sorting. Some are new, and some were introduced with 4.0.

    • Inconsistencies in how crew are identified.
    • Sorting working differently if you use a filter versus not using a filter.
    • Another bug that affects filters, based on whether you have the crew or not.

    My understanding is it will require a client update, which means it won't be fixed in time for the force upgrade

    If not during the force upgrade, what is the anticipated time to fully address some or all of these issues?

    Because this is a step backwards -- despite the benefits, when we're unvaulting groups of a character in many instances they will not be together which can lead to missing some that we'd have found in the old not very good sort-- that at least had all/most variants together
  • Data1001 wrote: »
    In the case of family members with the same surname, I don't think they should be sorted/grouped together. Sorting & searching by base name should ideally be the same in both the crew quarters and the vault, and if I search for "Sisko", I don't want to see my Jakes (or Jennifer) pop up — just Benjamin. Each unique base character needs to have their own unique base character name. Thus, Keiko should not appear with Miles, Wesley should not appear with Beverly, etc. And this also means that Arik is named thusly so as not to have the same base name as Dr. Soong.

    For other characters, their base name is the name we most frequently associate with them. For example, not many players would try finding Vic under "F" for Fontaine, or Khan under "S" for Singh. I don't have a problem with first names being used as base names, as long as those names are the common way we refer to that character, and are self-evident.
    Leonardo da Vinci (serious you got that under L????)

    Though this may seem to contradict the paragraph above, this is actually accurate: "da Vinci" is not his surname, as it means "from Vinci" — nearly every modern scholar agrees that when shortening his name, he should always be referred to as "Leonardo" and not as "da Vinci".

    Honestly it is the DB inconsistency that bother me the most. This started with the crew quarters and now it here it is once more. it is DB being lazy and not verify that the sort name that their data base uses is consistent and checked. Also it it DB not stating their intend and letting the player base just guess. When I see a list that seems to be alphabetically sorted and then a Keiko and Wesley are out of place i can intuit what they are doing but that yo see Dr. Toby Russell
    Dr. Gillian Taylor both filed under D and I have to question what they are doing. It it that hard to say we are sorting alphabetically but it is by common reference to that crew and not by surname in the notes. DB has be so uncommunicative for so long it has become institutional.

    Sincerely,

    Lilac Erosion

    7TH Tactical Wing

    Maybe the irony is that we play because we’re Star Trek fans, those hopeful idealists that like to think things will get better when we raise valid concerns about fairness and balance, etc and we forget that DB’s greed openly mocks the values espoused by the franchise they have a license
    -Lord Wizzlestix IT
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    but that yo see Dr. Toby Russell [and] Dr. Gillian Taylor both filed under D and I have to question what they are doing.

    Oh is that right? I didn't notice that. That's really bad, lol.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Under T
    The Keeper
    The President of Earth
    The Traveler

    Under C
    The Clown

    Under D
    The Duras Sisters

    Under P
    The Professor

    am6xelhv2x8e.gif
  • Data1001 wrote: »

    Edit: But I still don't think distinct characters with the same last name should be grouped/sorted together — they need to have distinct "sort by" names.

    they'd still have distinct sort names and wouldn't be mixed together if their given names were part of the sort.
    e.g.
    Sisko, Ben
    Sisko, Jake
    Sisko, Jen

    In theory anyways... They couldn't figure this out for the Trois......
  • guest_7456 wrote: »
    Data1001 wrote: »

    Edit: But I still don't think distinct characters with the same last name should be grouped/sorted together — they need to have distinct "sort by" names.

    they'd still have distinct sort names and wouldn't be mixed together if their given names were part of the sort.
    e.g.
    Sisko, Ben
    Sisko, Jake
    Sisko, Jen

    In theory anyways... They couldn't figure this out for the Trois......
    Careful that sounds like some kind of writing convention....😲
    Sincerely,

    Lilac Erosion

    7TH Tactical Wing

    Maybe the irony is that we play because we’re Star Trek fans, those hopeful idealists that like to think things will get better when we raise valid concerns about fairness and balance, etc and we forget that DB’s greed openly mocks the values espoused by the franchise they have a license
    -Lord Wizzlestix IT
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any update as to when this will be addressed?
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