In this situation, a useful Legendary was removed from my crew. Of course I expect DB to offer a similar useful Legendary or some other equivalent instead, to replace what they originally said they would provide but later, after I had paid, found they could not.
I'm pleased they haven't done so immediately, too. I don't want them throwing out legendary characters and citations to any whiny crybaby who can fill out a support form. They're being thorough, and we just have to wait a little longer for a fair fix.
You have not had a legendary removed. You still have the card.
The card in question has been rebalanced because it turned out to be over powered.
The power in question was not made available in official announcements or even within the game to players who did not already have the card.
Most games of this nature will rebalance cards that are clearly in need of rebalancing and I believe the terms allow this to happen.
If DB give compensation for this it will set a very bad precedent for them.
In this situation, a useful Legendary was removed from my crew. Of course I expect DB to offer a similar useful Legendary or some other equivalent instead, to replace what they originally said they would provide but later, after I had paid, found they could not.
I'm pleased they haven't done so immediately, too. I don't want them throwing out legendary characters and citations to any whiny crybaby who can fill out a support form. They're being thorough, and we just have to wait a little longer for a fair fix.
You have not had a legendary removed. You still have the card.
The card in question has been rebalanced because it turned out to be over powered.
The power in question was not made available in official announcements or even within the game to players who did not already have the card.
Most games of this nature will rebalance cards that are clearly in need of rebalancing and I believe the terms allow this to happen.
If DB give compensation for this it will set a very bad precedent for them.
No terms can make legal what is illegal. In this case bait and switch.
The product itself Polywater Yar is the advertisement someone buys it and tells others what they got by putting a screenshot here of the stats and entering them on the wiki. Which by the way employees of DB have helped with entering information that we would not know (achievements)
If this was truly an error and not done on purpose before an event where her ship ability would be most useful, it might have been avoided if Shan would give us ship ability information too. She might have noticed something wrong with the initialization time.
Rebalance does put into question whether they are implying the ability to devalue something. I would say if rebalance is not defined in terms of service. It could be interpreted as the right to do something illegal.
Rebalance can mean making something else better to compensate for something being too strong. It can also mean changing something into something of equal value. But the illegal is, changing something to devalue it without giving compensation for changing it.
I do believe compensation has to be acceptable to both parties. But DB would have the right to not devalue, if they do not want to compensate or agree to compensation.
I must also add the original Polywater with her ship ability was unique. Unique as a masterpiece of art. What DB has changed her into is a reprint of an artwork.
Their need to change her ability proves they thought this too.
No terms can make legal what is illegal. In this case bait and switch.
How is it a hair and switch? You have the card in question. Some of the stats have just changed and these stats were not among those that were advertised.
The product itself Polywater Yar is the advertisement someone buys it and tells others what they got by putting a screenshot here of the stats and entering them on the wiki. Which by the way employees of DB have helped with entering information that we would not know (achievements)
Did a DB employee advertise the ship stats? In my experience they don't do this. In fact players have asked for them to do this multiple times in the past.
If this was truly an error and not done on purpose before an event where her ship ability would be most useful, it might have been avoided if Shan would give us ship ability information too. She might have noticed something wrong with the initialization time.
You are claiming both that db advertised thos trait AND that they should have advertised the information - if you want to go legal on this I can only suggest that you don't give evidence
Rebalance does put into question whether they are implying the ability to devalue something. I would say if rebalance is not defined in terms of service. It could be interpreted as the right to do something illegal.
I can only assume this is your first experience with the Nerf gun. It happens all the time in gaming to avoid causing balancing problems.
Rebalance can mean making something else better to compensate for something being too strong. It can also mean changing something into something of equal value. But the illegal is, changing something to devalue it without giving compensation for changing it.
It is not illegal. Cards have changed with little notice in the past and not just in Timelines
No terms can make legal what is illegal. In this case bait and switch.
How is it a hair and switch? You have the card in question. Some of the stats have just changed and these stats were not among those that were advertised.
The product itself Polywater Yar is the advertisement someone buys it and tells others what they got by putting a screenshot here of the stats and entering them on the wiki. Which by the way employees of DB have helped with entering information that we would not know (achievements)
Did a DB employee advertise the ship stats? In my experience they don't do this. In fact players have asked for them to do this multiple times in the past.
If this was truly an error and not done on purpose before an event where her ship ability would be most useful, it might have been avoided if Shan would give us ship ability information too. She might have noticed something wrong with the initialization time.
You are claiming both that db advertised thos trait AND that they should have advertised the information - if you want to go legal on this I can only suggest that you don't give evidence
Rebalance does put into question whether they are implying the ability to devalue something. I would say if rebalance is not defined in terms of service. It could be interpreted as the right to do something illegal.
I can only assume this is your first experience with the Nerf gun. It happens all the time in gaming to avoid causing balancing problems.
Rebalance can mean making something else better to compensate for something being too strong. It can also mean changing something into something of equal value. But the illegal is, changing something to devalue it without giving compensation for changing it.
It is not illegal. Cards have changed with little notice in the past and not just in Timelines
If i am not satisfied with compensation I will see what a lawyer says.
But I will tell you again a product is advertisement and word of mouth is advertisement. It does not have to come from the company. It can come from someone who has brought the product. In this there is no chance of error. Because it was confirmed when I received the product. Then two days later it was no longer the product I worked for and also brought.
I know if a contract has a statement that is illegal, that contract is null and void.
I do not know if that goes for terms of services. That I will find out, if I need too.
If you believe balancing gives them the right to devalue. Then that is illegal. In which case that statement can be interpreted illegally. Does that make terms of service null and void. I will have to find out. If it does , do I have the right to all the money that I have spent on the game if I give the game back. I will have to find out. But I can only find this out from a lawyer.
Notice I do not have to talk about any soecific item that was devalued. It is just a question whether the statements are legal. And, if something can be interpreted as illegal, does it make illegal.
The power in question was not made available in official announcements or even within the game to players who did not already have the card.
This is an awesome way to make customers happy Offer an over powered card that forces folks to compete for rank to remain competitive, then do a bait and switch and nerf the said card right after you stop selling packs. If customers complain, argue a nitty gritty legal point that the initial stat was not officially advertised - even though it was all over the official forums run by the company!!!
Brilliant. Should be made a management case study.
Funny thing is if you don’t spend money like it’s water on things like mobile phone games then when things like this happen as they will continue to do you won’t be disappointed. I had my straw that broke the camels back months ago. I was furious just like this situation. Then after a time I realized there are way too many more important things in life to spend money on and I stopped the carousel of disappointment. I don’t give two **tsk tsk** if I finish in first or fifty thousand. I certainly won’t spend tens, hundreds or thousands on something as asinine as bragging rights. I have things in my life that actually have real meaning, I highly recommend to anyone who is so pissed off about this they can’t see straight, to think about what you are doing and focus on things that will matter five years from now. This or any other game certainly isn’t going to be one of them.
You have not had a legendary removed. You still have the card.
The card in question has been rebalanced because it turned out to be over powered.
The power in question was not made available in official announcements or even within the game to players who did not already have the card.
Most games of this nature will rebalance cards that are clearly in need of rebalancing and I believe the terms allow this to happen.
If DB give compensation for this it will set a very bad precedent for them.
Lets be clear, for many of us the rebalancing itself isn't the problem. The problem is how the nerf happened the moment she was no longer on sale, which meant they knew beforehand of the change yet did not communicate that to those purchasing.
That's a bad faith sale. It is, at best, extremely unethical and, at worst, potentially in breach of several customer rights laws depending on location.
The nerf isn't the crux of the problem, it's how DB have comported themselves.
So any compensation may set a precedent, but not for nerfed cards - it sets a precedent for DB making amends when they're caught acting shady. And that's not bad at all, it should be bare minimum for any business wanting reasonable relations with their customers.
DB are bad at communication and it is not the first time (even in recent months) where they have announced a change shortly after the event or pack has finished.
The point remains that the ship component of cards is never officially released so for the vast majority of players they would have no way of knowing the stats in question
DB are bad at communication and it is not the first time (even in recent months) where they have announced a change shortly after the event or pack has finished.
The point remains that the ship component of cards is never officially released so for the vast majority of players they would have no way of knowing the stats in question
Absolutely. Famously, many Star Trek: Timelines players do not have Internet access.
DB are bad at communication and it is not the first time (even in recent months) where they have announced a change shortly after the event or pack has finished.
The point remains that the ship component of cards is never officially released so for the vast majority of players they would have no way of knowing the stats in question
Absolutely. Famously, many Star Trek: Timelines players do not have Internet access.
I think its more that most don't live on the forums.....
DB are bad at communication and it is not the first time (even in recent months) where they have announced a change shortly after the event or pack has finished.
The point remains that the ship component of cards is never officially released so for the vast majority of players they would have no way of knowing the stats in question
Absolutely. Famously, many Star Trek: Timelines players do not have Internet access.
I think its more that most don't live on the forums.....
I understand the point that was being attempted, but I'm not sure about the numbers.
For example, only three of my fleet have accounts here, but perhaps 12-15 visit and read. And important info gets shared with all fifty in our chat channels. And I don't follow why they would have no way to visit https://stt.wiki/wiki/Polywater_Yar , either.
But even if 90% of STT players wouldn't know how to check a new character's stats, how many of those 90% are buying Event packs and placing in the top 1000?
I don't just think Hunter247's numbers are wrong - I also think they're irrelevant to the issue.
DB are bad at communication and it is not the first time (even in recent months) where they have announced a change shortly after the event or pack has finished.
The point remains that the ship component of cards is never officially released so for the vast majority of players they would have no way of knowing the stats in question
Knowledge of an act doesn't impact the ethical or legal aspects of said act. If you shoplift an item without anyone knowing, that doesn't magically stop it being shoplifting, it just means you've gotten away with it.
It's DB's MO to blame the players 1st. Case in point: they told me that my brand new flagship Samsung "was one of the lowest performing devices capable of playing the game" when it plays just fine on a low end Amazon Fire.
How long did DB tell us that everything was "working as intended" when we brought up the "And" issue?
[DCC] bebe
Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
DB are bad at communication and it is not the first time (even in recent months) where they have announced a change shortly after the event or pack has finished.
The point remains that the ship component of cards is never officially released so for the vast majority of players they would have no way of knowing the stats in question
Absolutely. Famously, many Star Trek: Timelines players do not have Internet access.
I think its more that most don't live on the forums.....
I'm much more meh on the issue than many (although I think they way DB went about things was completely wrong), especially since they said there are changes coming to ship abilities later this year/early next that will "shake up the arena", but getting that info has little to do with living on the forums. As soon as card info is out there it is reposted to Discord, Reddit, Facebook, Steam, various fleet chats, etc. Many people who don't spend much time on the forums also pop in to them specifically on Wednesdays to see what info has been posted on event crew.
Comments
You have not had a legendary removed. You still have the card.
The card in question has been rebalanced because it turned out to be over powered.
The power in question was not made available in official announcements or even within the game to players who did not already have the card.
Most games of this nature will rebalance cards that are clearly in need of rebalancing and I believe the terms allow this to happen.
If DB give compensation for this it will set a very bad precedent for them.
No terms can make legal what is illegal. In this case bait and switch.
The product itself Polywater Yar is the advertisement someone buys it and tells others what they got by putting a screenshot here of the stats and entering them on the wiki. Which by the way employees of DB have helped with entering information that we would not know (achievements)
If this was truly an error and not done on purpose before an event where her ship ability would be most useful, it might have been avoided if Shan would give us ship ability information too. She might have noticed something wrong with the initialization time.
Rebalance does put into question whether they are implying the ability to devalue something. I would say if rebalance is not defined in terms of service. It could be interpreted as the right to do something illegal.
Rebalance can mean making something else better to compensate for something being too strong. It can also mean changing something into something of equal value. But the illegal is, changing something to devalue it without giving compensation for changing it.
I do believe compensation has to be acceptable to both parties. But DB would have the right to not devalue, if they do not want to compensate or agree to compensation.
I must also add the original Polywater with her ship ability was unique. Unique as a masterpiece of art. What DB has changed her into is a reprint of an artwork.
Their need to change her ability proves they thought this too.
How is it a hair and switch? You have the card in question. Some of the stats have just changed and these stats were not among those that were advertised.
Did a DB employee advertise the ship stats? In my experience they don't do this. In fact players have asked for them to do this multiple times in the past.
You are claiming both that db advertised thos trait AND that they should have advertised the information - if you want to go legal on this I can only suggest that you don't give evidence
I can only assume this is your first experience with the Nerf gun. It happens all the time in gaming to avoid causing balancing problems.
It is not illegal. Cards have changed with little notice in the past and not just in Timelines
If i am not satisfied with compensation I will see what a lawyer says.
But I will tell you again a product is advertisement and word of mouth is advertisement. It does not have to come from the company. It can come from someone who has brought the product. In this there is no chance of error. Because it was confirmed when I received the product. Then two days later it was no longer the product I worked for and also brought.
I know if a contract has a statement that is illegal, that contract is null and void.
I do not know if that goes for terms of services. That I will find out, if I need too.
If you believe balancing gives them the right to devalue. Then that is illegal. In which case that statement can be interpreted illegally. Does that make terms of service null and void. I will have to find out. If it does , do I have the right to all the money that I have spent on the game if I give the game back. I will have to find out. But I can only find this out from a lawyer.
Notice I do not have to talk about any soecific item that was devalued. It is just a question whether the statements are legal. And, if something can be interpreted as illegal, does it make illegal.
This is an awesome way to make customers happy
Brilliant. Should be made a management case study.
Lets be clear, for many of us the rebalancing itself isn't the problem. The problem is how the nerf happened the moment she was no longer on sale, which meant they knew beforehand of the change yet did not communicate that to those purchasing.
That's a bad faith sale. It is, at best, extremely unethical and, at worst, potentially in breach of several customer rights laws depending on location.
The nerf isn't the crux of the problem, it's how DB have comported themselves.
So any compensation may set a precedent, but not for nerfed cards - it sets a precedent for DB making amends when they're caught acting shady. And that's not bad at all, it should be bare minimum for any business wanting reasonable relations with their customers.
The point remains that the ship component of cards is never officially released so for the vast majority of players they would have no way of knowing the stats in question
Absolutely. Famously, many Star Trek: Timelines players do not have Internet access.
I think its more that most don't live on the forums.....
I understand the point that was being attempted, but I'm not sure about the numbers.
For example, only three of my fleet have accounts here, but perhaps 12-15 visit and read. And important info gets shared with all fifty in our chat channels. And I don't follow why they would have no way to visit
https://stt.wiki/wiki/Polywater_Yar , either.
But even if 90% of STT players wouldn't know how to check a new character's stats, how many of those 90% are buying Event packs and placing in the top 1000?
I don't just think Hunter247's numbers are wrong - I also think they're irrelevant to the issue.
Knowledge of an act doesn't impact the ethical or legal aspects of said act. If you shoplift an item without anyone knowing, that doesn't magically stop it being shoplifting, it just means you've gotten away with it.
How long did DB tell us that everything was "working as intended" when we brought up the "And" issue?
Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
I'm much more meh on the issue than many (although I think they way DB went about things was completely wrong), especially since they said there are changes coming to ship abilities later this year/early next that will "shake up the arena", but getting that info has little to do with living on the forums. As soon as card info is out there it is reposted to Discord, Reddit, Facebook, Steam, various fleet chats, etc. Many people who don't spend much time on the forums also pop in to them specifically on Wednesdays to see what info has been posted on event crew.