As I said in similar threads, if I had something to communicate I would.
Honestly, that answer is worse than silence. It just proves DB's incompetence when you either are unable to look up a bug report we know exists, or are forbidden from discussing it.
Y’all kept asking her to say something. Anything. She said something. Request granted.
Responding "no comment" does not count as a response. If these threads really bother you that much, please ignore them.
As I said in similar threads, if I had something to communicate I would.
Honestly, that answer is worse than silence. It just proves DB's incompetence when you either are unable to look up a bug report we know exists, or are forbidden from discussing it.
Never ascribe to incompetence what can be explained away by malice.
I am sorry @Shan , I did not realise it was not allowed and someone seemed to be asking if anyone had heard from customer support on the issue so I thought here was one I could answer...
I did not realise that it was to be such a complicated issue that there was no official answer. It could have saved me 3 weeks of emails with customer support trying to explain what I was asking.
The game seems to display % success irrespective of whether x or y is the highest skill. i.e. highest skill + % of lowest skill.
Actual mission success seems to be that it is the first skill that is most important not the second.
Easy to test definitely using first skill zero, and high enough second skill to win mission, if you have the crew to do this enough. With my crew it requires too many runs to get a definitive answer statistically.
Either
1) there is no problem, they % displayed and the % success of mission are the same, and the statistics is so far off a normal distribution that the standard T tests are not meaningful.
2) the game code is not treating the first and second skill equivalently
3) the game code is not calculating the displayed % chance equivalently.
For me now I am completely dependent on my shuttle mission pulls and this directly impacts me, I either ignore missions with AND if I can or just max the first skill to be sure...
Surely it will save everyone time to just check this out and give an answer?
I am sorry @Shan , I did not realise it was not allowed and someone seemed to be asking if anyone had heard from customer support on the issue so I thought here was one I could answer...
I did not realise that it was to be such a complicated issue that there was no official answer. It could have saved me 3 weeks of emails with customer support trying to explain what I was asking.
The game seems to display % success irrespective of whether x or y is the highest skill. i.e. highest skill + % of lowest skill.
Actual mission success seems to be that it is the first skill that is most important not the second.
Easy to test definitely using first skill zero, and high enough second skill to win mission, if you have the crew to do this enough. With my crew it requires too many runs to get a definitive answer statistically.
Either
1) there is no problem, they % displayed and the % success of mission are the same, and the statistics is so far off a normal distribution that the standard T tests are not meaningful.
2) the game code is not treating the first and second skill equivalently
3) the game code is not calculating the displayed % chance equivalently.
For me now I am completely dependent on my shuttle mission pulls and this directly impacts me, I either ignore missions with AND if I can or just max the first skill to be sure...
Surely it will save everyone time to just check this out and give an answer?
All the options you state have been tested already.
The game is (or was) miscalculating the displayed expected pass rate, based on an old formula. DB did once change this formula, but it appears only on the backend calculation, not the one (on the client) used to calculate the displayed expected pass rates.
There's never going to be a response on this. Shan can't report, because she has nothing to communicate, per above. DB/Tilting Point will never give her something to communicate on this matter. Stop trying to make "fetch" happen, it's not going to happen. Honestly I'm surprised she hasn't shut this thread down.
My guess: It's not a bug, it's a feature. Kind of like the kickstart.
Drunken Dahar Masters is recruiting active players.
PM for details.
Shutting down the thread would imply they are hiding something. Keeping it open lets them pretend that maybe they are still looking at it and they have no news to report.
Shutting down the thread would imply they are hiding something. Keeping it open lets them pretend that maybe they are still looking at it and they have no news to report.
It’s an open ticket.
The original issue was proven beyond reasonable doubt, so it needs acknowledgement from DB that the problem existed and what they’ve done/will do to put it right.
The longer it remains open, the bigger a problem DB have in terms of players losing trust and possibly some players seeking store refunds for a product misadvertised. I can appreciate the latter may just be an easy write off from a small quantity, but why bother when an explanation, fix and compensation would be cheaper?
We might get an answer along with the game's EOL notice. I wouldn't hold my breath.
PS This is why I've limited my spending to MC and the occasional 10x10 offer. I can no longer justify materially contributing to a business that treats its customers in this fashion.
We don't actually know that. We know that Shan opened a [internal?] ticket, because she told us. We don't know if the issue was resolved and the ticket was closed. All we know is that Shan does not have any updates.
We don't actually know that. We know that Shan opened a [internal?] ticket, because she told us. We don't know if the issue was resolved and the ticket was closed. All we know is that Shan does not have any updates.
I meant it in more of a figurative way. The ticket is open in the community.
Tilting Point will never admit anything is or was broken, because knowing this community, everyone is going to scream for some kind of compensation.
Everyone can scream until they're blue in the face. I could not care less about being compensated for the error, as it affected everyone more or less equally for a VERY extended period of time. All I would like to know is:
a) what the definitively correct way to fill an AND slot is
and
b) if the displayed percentages are accurate and trustworthy moving forward.
That's it and that's all. If we got clear answers to that, I'd be happy.
Tilting Point will never admit anything is or was broken, because knowing this community, everyone is going to scream for some kind of compensation.
Everyone can scream until they're blue in the face. I could not care less about being compensated for the error, as it affected everyone more or less equally for a VERY extended period of time. All I would like to know is:
a) what the definitively correct way to fill an AND slot is
and
b) if the displayed percentages are accurate and trustworthy moving forward.
That's it and that's all. If we got clear answers to that, I'd be happy.
Tilting Point will never admit anything is or was broken, because knowing this community, everyone is going to scream for some kind of compensation.
Everyone can scream until they're blue in the face. I could not care less about being compensated for the error, as it affected everyone more or less equally for a VERY extended period of time. All I would like to know is:
a) what the definitively correct way to fill an AND slot is
and
b) if the displayed percentages are accurate and trustworthy moving forward.
That's it and that's all. If we got clear answers to that, I'd be happy.
With a faction event next weekend it’d be really nice to know if the AND slot display bug has been fixed yet please?
Also, less urgent but still important, what plans (if any) are there to compensate players for missions that failed (due to the miscalculated displayed success percentages) within the time period that the bug persisted/persists for?
Many thanks and looking forward to your response,
I'm blaming you Mr. Pasty!
DB: "Oh they are still complaining about the AND bug? Let's take almost all the ANDs out of the 3 seat shuttles, see if they still complain."
Next Faction Event, DB sees this thread still alive: "Oh they are still complaining? Let's just eliminate AND completely. That will shut em up!"
With a faction event next weekend it’d be really nice to know if the AND slot display bug has been fixed yet please?
Also, less urgent but still important, what plans (if any) are there to compensate players for missions that failed (due to the miscalculated displayed success percentages) within the time period that the bug persisted/persists for?
Many thanks and looking forward to your response,
I'm blaming you Mr. Pasty!
DB: "Oh they are still complaining about the AND bug? Let's take almost all the ANDs out of the 3 seat shuttles, see if they still complain."
Next Faction Event, DB sees this thread still alive: "Oh they are still complaining? Let's just eliminate AND completely. That will shut em up!"
;-) HAHAHAHA
I thought the same earlier.. I’ll come back here and everyone will blame me.
But on reflection, could the lack of AND slot missions on this event be an attempt to mitigate the ANDgate problem? (That’s maybe a positive!)
Or, is this an experiment to measure changes on actual pass rates (booo! That means DB don’t understand that it’s not about what the server sees, it’s about what out app tells us to be an expected pass rate)
Or neither. Maybe with so many variant crew this downturn on AND slots is just to mix things up.
More failures will stagnate scores and maybe encourage spending.
Alternate view: higher (or lower) scores that impact the player base in the same manner so scores end up in the same place relative to each other, yielding identical spending habits.
Stop turning this into a conspiracy theory that isn't there. DB isn't a bunch of evil geniuses. They can barely get out of their own way half the time.
I don't expect we will ever get an answer on this. I will say this though, the disparity in this bug/feature is more noticeable in this event, at least anecdotally to me.
Drunken Dahar Masters is recruiting active players.
PM for details.
I don't expect we will ever get an answer on this. I will say this though, the disparity in this bug/feature is more noticeable in this event, at least anecdotally to me.
How is it more noticeable when:
1. There are literally no AND shuttles missions (well a few, but compared to the cornucopia we are used to virtually nil).
2. We aren’t even done one day so the few AND shuttles there are couldn’t be a large data set.
3. Whatever you do, while I agree we won’t get an answer on this (hope I’m wrong but doubt it) don’t call this issue “beating a dead horse”... the denizens here don’t like that 😇
I don't expect we will ever get an answer on this. I will say this though, the disparity in this bug/feature is more noticeable in this event, at least anecdotally to me.
How is it more noticeable when:
1. There are literally no AND shuttles missions (well a few, but compared to the cornucopia we are used to virtually nil).
2. We aren’t even done one day so the few AND shuttles there are couldn’t be a large data set.
3. Whatever you do, while I agree we won’t get an answer on this (hope I’m wrong but doubt it) don’t call this issue “beating a dead horse”... the denizens here don’t like that 😇
3. I would never call it beating a dead horse, this is clearly a very alive horse (although severely bruised) to many on this forum.
2. It's just my observation, not a very large data set at all.
1. Honestly it's just how I feel about it, I don't have any hard evidence to back it up. I never really tracked it in the first place. That was the work of much more dedicated players than me.
I'd love to see a definitive answer on this, but we'll never get an answer, much less a definitive one.
Drunken Dahar Masters is recruiting active players.
PM for details.
More failures will stagnate scores and maybe encourage spending.
Alternate view: higher (or lower) scores that impact the player base in the same manner so scores end up in the same place relative to each other, yielding identical spending habits.
Stop turning this into a conspiracy theory that isn't there. DB isn't a bunch of evil geniuses. They can barely get out of their own way half the time.
Don't like using math but I guess I could. Let's say this cuts scores by 10% and affects everyone so its fair.
I get 130k normally and stop. Now i would have to earn 145k(minus 10%) to get the same results. 4 more max shuttles is 3hours of work or some boosts.
Doesn't change the leader boards unless a smaller lead encourages them to chase harder.
Not selling this as a money grab, but it will have effects.
It was not a diabolical plan to depress scores. It was a simple bug. The bus was incredibly easy for a developer to make. I don't blame them for the bug. I don't even blame them for not catching it in QA.
The damning part is that DB spent a year refusing to listen to players claiming there was an issue. And then after presented with proof of the issue they made a stealth fix to the bug while still refusing to acknowledge that it even existed.
It was not a diabolical plan to depress scores. It was a simple bug. The bus was incredibly easy for a developer to make. I don't blame them for the bug. I don't even blame them for not catching it in QA.
The damning part is that DB spent a year refusing to listen to players claiming there was an issue. And then after presented with proof of the issue they made a stealth fix to the bug while still refusing to acknowledge that it even existed.
Add to that the fact that this was a slow moving issue (as opposed to big scandals like Picardgate and Yargate), DB probably thinks that it has not had any impact on their revenuers. They do not see a big drop in revenue in a particular month and congratulate themselves that all is good!!
While I have no data to back this up, I suspect behavior like this is what makes a lot of us question DBs motives and get put off from spending money in the game.
It was not a diabolical plan to depress scores. It was a simple bug. The bus was incredibly easy for a developer to make. I don't blame them for the bug. I don't even blame them for not catching it in QA.
The damning part is that DB spent a year refusing to listen to players claiming there was an issue. And then after presented with proof of the issue they made a stealth fix to the bug while still refusing to acknowledge that it even existed.
Add to that the fact that this was a slow moving issue (as opposed to big scandals like Picardgate and Yargate), DB probably thinks that it has not had any impact on their revenuers. They do not see a big drop in revenue in a particular month and congratulate themselves that all is good!!
While I have no data to back this up, I suspect behavior like this is what makes a lot of us question DBs motives and get put off from spending money in the game.
Especially since most posters want nothing more than acknowledgement and clarity, as opposed to any sort of restitution.
I still question how shuttles work, in terms of what is displayed (both success rate % and crew recommendations) VS what is being calculated on the back-end. I still make my crew selection based on the forum-approved calculation of [skill-1 + (skill-2 x 0.25)], which gives me actual success rates that are aligned with the posted rates.
Also interested in noting the lack of AND stat checks in this event and like to think it indicates this issue is being taken seriously.
As an aside here is an example showing my observational bias, even with a strong professional math and science background. In this event my success rate on shuttles maxed at only 80-90% using time boosts only. I run 3 shuttles only but seem to get 1 or even 2 failures each run of 3. This has kept me at the same mission difficulty and I expected higher success, so I did some quick calc. Actual calculation only expect 3 successes 50% of the time, 1 failure 38%. So say I have done 8 sets of 3 shuttles, my results are more unlucky than showing a significant problem. I could ask here to get a bigger sample but ... biased more likely to get people who fail missions to respond...
Given an 80% success for each shuttle calculate:
3 Success 51.2%
2 Success 38.4%
1 Success 9.6%
0 Success 0.8%
Comments
Ah yes, my mistake.
Never ascribe to incompetence what can be explained away by malice.
I did not realise that it was to be such a complicated issue that there was no official answer. It could have saved me 3 weeks of emails with customer support trying to explain what I was asking.
The game seems to display % success irrespective of whether x or y is the highest skill. i.e. highest skill + % of lowest skill.
Actual mission success seems to be that it is the first skill that is most important not the second.
Easy to test definitely using first skill zero, and high enough second skill to win mission, if you have the crew to do this enough. With my crew it requires too many runs to get a definitive answer statistically.
Either
1) there is no problem, they % displayed and the % success of mission are the same, and the statistics is so far off a normal distribution that the standard T tests are not meaningful.
2) the game code is not treating the first and second skill equivalently
3) the game code is not calculating the displayed % chance equivalently.
For me now I am completely dependent on my shuttle mission pulls and this directly impacts me, I either ignore missions with AND if I can or just max the first skill to be sure...
Surely it will save everyone time to just check this out and give an answer?
All the options you state have been tested already.
The game is (or was) miscalculating the displayed expected pass rate, based on an old formula. DB did once change this formula, but it appears only on the backend calculation, not the one (on the client) used to calculate the displayed expected pass rates.
My guess: It's not a bug, it's a feature. Kind of like the kickstart.
PM for details.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
It’s an open ticket.
The original issue was proven beyond reasonable doubt, so it needs acknowledgement from DB that the problem existed and what they’ve done/will do to put it right.
The longer it remains open, the bigger a problem DB have in terms of players losing trust and possibly some players seeking store refunds for a product misadvertised. I can appreciate the latter may just be an easy write off from a small quantity, but why bother when an explanation, fix and compensation would be cheaper?
PS This is why I've limited my spending to MC and the occasional 10x10 offer. I can no longer justify materially contributing to a business that treats its customers in this fashion.
We don't actually know that. We know that Shan opened a [internal?] ticket, because she told us. We don't know if the issue was resolved and the ticket was closed. All we know is that Shan does not have any updates.
I meant it in more of a figurative way. The ticket is open in the community.
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Everyone can scream until they're blue in the face. I could not care less about being compensated for the error, as it affected everyone more or less equally for a VERY extended period of time. All I would like to know is:
a) what the definitively correct way to fill an AND slot is
and
b) if the displayed percentages are accurate and trustworthy moving forward.
That's it and that's all. If we got clear answers to that, I'd be happy.
Seconded.
Amen
I'm blaming you Mr. Pasty!
DB: "Oh they are still complaining about the AND bug? Let's take almost all the ANDs out of the 3 seat shuttles, see if they still complain."
Next Faction Event, DB sees this thread still alive: "Oh they are still complaining? Let's just eliminate AND completely. That will shut em up!"
;-) HAHAHAHA
I thought the same earlier.. I’ll come back here and everyone will blame me.
But on reflection, could the lack of AND slot missions on this event be an attempt to mitigate the ANDgate problem? (That’s maybe a positive!)
Or, is this an experiment to measure changes on actual pass rates (booo! That means DB don’t understand that it’s not about what the server sees, it’s about what out app tells us to be an expected pass rate)
Or neither. Maybe with so many variant crew this downturn on AND slots is just to mix things up.
On the fence about it right now.
Alternate view: higher (or lower) scores that impact the player base in the same manner so scores end up in the same place relative to each other, yielding identical spending habits.
Stop turning this into a conspiracy theory that isn't there. DB isn't a bunch of evil geniuses. They can barely get out of their own way half the time.
PM for details.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
How is it more noticeable when:
1. There are literally no AND shuttles missions (well a few, but compared to the cornucopia we are used to virtually nil).
2. We aren’t even done one day so the few AND shuttles there are couldn’t be a large data set.
3. Whatever you do, while I agree we won’t get an answer on this (hope I’m wrong but doubt it) don’t call this issue “beating a dead horse”... the denizens here don’t like that 😇
3. I would never call it beating a dead horse, this is clearly a very alive horse (although severely bruised) to many on this forum.
2. It's just my observation, not a very large data set at all.
1. Honestly it's just how I feel about it, I don't have any hard evidence to back it up. I never really tracked it in the first place. That was the work of much more dedicated players than me.
I'd love to see a definitive answer on this, but we'll never get an answer, much less a definitive one.
PM for details.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
Don't like using math but I guess I could. Let's say this cuts scores by 10% and affects everyone so its fair.
I get 130k normally and stop. Now i would have to earn 145k(minus 10%) to get the same results. 4 more max shuttles is 3hours of work or some boosts.
Doesn't change the leader boards unless a smaller lead encourages them to chase harder.
Not selling this as a money grab, but it will have effects.
The damning part is that DB spent a year refusing to listen to players claiming there was an issue. And then after presented with proof of the issue they made a stealth fix to the bug while still refusing to acknowledge that it even existed.
Add to that the fact that this was a slow moving issue (as opposed to big scandals like Picardgate and Yargate), DB probably thinks that it has not had any impact on their revenuers. They do not see a big drop in revenue in a particular month and congratulate themselves that all is good!!
While I have no data to back this up, I suspect behavior like this is what makes a lot of us question DBs motives and get put off from spending money in the game.
Especially since most posters want nothing more than acknowledgement and clarity, as opposed to any sort of restitution.
I still question how shuttles work, in terms of what is displayed (both success rate % and crew recommendations) VS what is being calculated on the back-end. I still make my crew selection based on the forum-approved calculation of [skill-1 + (skill-2 x 0.25)], which gives me actual success rates that are aligned with the posted rates.
As an aside here is an example showing my observational bias, even with a strong professional math and science background. In this event my success rate on shuttles maxed at only 80-90% using time boosts only. I run 3 shuttles only but seem to get 1 or even 2 failures each run of 3. This has kept me at the same mission difficulty and I expected higher success, so I did some quick calc. Actual calculation only expect 3 successes 50% of the time, 1 failure 38%. So say I have done 8 sets of 3 shuttles, my results are more unlucky than showing a significant problem. I could ask here to get a bigger sample but ... biased more likely to get people who fail missions to respond...
Given an 80% success for each shuttle calculate:
3 Success 51.2%
2 Success 38.4%
1 Success 9.6%
0 Success 0.8%