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  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nahh... G’kar be more like this...

    h778a26r0nlf.jpeg

    But Neelix...

    vg1wp67jbawg.gif
  • muwoomuwoo ✭✭✭
    Jim Steele wrote: »
    Agreed I was disappointed he's not a pilot. https://youtu.be/NKFMWhxJask

    I seemed to have blocked this from my memory.
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of us are very fond of Neelix I'll have you know. He has a very sad back story, and his devotion to Kes very endearing.

    I didn't like Neelix when I first watched VOY. Then I rewatched it again, still was meh toward him. But then I rewatched a 3rd time and he does have a uniqueness, devotion, and empathy that I can admire. So as much as he's often the annoying ill-timed comic relief, I have grown to tolerate and at times like him. I really think Voyager wouldn't have made it out of the Delta Quadrant without him.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
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  • edited November 2018
    Some of us are very fond of Neelix I'll have you know. He has a very sad back story, and his devotion to Kes very endearing.

    I didn't like Neelix when I first watched VOY. Then I rewatched it again, still was meh toward him. But then I rewatched a 3rd time and he does have a uniqueness, devotion, and empathy that I can admire. So as much as he's often the annoying ill-timed comic relief, I have grown to tolerate and at times like him. I really think Voyager wouldn't have made it out of the Delta Quadrant without him.

    Neelix is actually really smart (it comes out in a few episodes but generally he hides it, a bit like Guinan in that respect). He doesn't want to join Starfleet because of the responsibility, and he doesn't want to leave the Delta Quadrant, but he's happy to tag along with an awesome crew of friendly, extremely competent idealists who aren't going to expect too much of him. He gets to explore vast areas of the Delta Quadrant he wouldn't otherwise see, learn new things, but most of all grieve while among friends who don't remind him of his pain.

    His ditzy nature hides a very sharp mind, he's an excellent trader with a fantastic memory, he helps out with warp physics (the Lizard Episode), he takes on Q in defense of Captain Janeway, deals with his grief with forgiveness (which considering how hardcore his race had been treated was pretty exemplary) and generally helps the crew out in heaps of small ways to get them safely through the parts of the Delta Quadrant he knew.

    And he was a badass chef. You can't go wrong with a chef who's willing to experiment and create all sorts of mad dishes imo!
    And
    I did not see any of the perfectly formed visaged Hollywood look crew volunteering to babysit the only child on the ship either.
    Methinks the disdain against the one who did not look like the rest has other deep rooted genesis. This even translates to the writers of the show whose own inner demons reflected in the character presentation of Neelix. I know writers change over seasons but that the later writers who did bother to read up on previous episodes and still kept introducing inconsistencies about non human character speaks of writers prejudices.
    (And the fans and their racist bile at the time show was airing. I remember hedgehog was nicest thing they said about Neelix.)
    Don’t get me wrong, the writers wrote up or rather wrote down Janeway and her diplomatic skills denigrating a woman leader. Again another deep rooted societal flaw ( no wonder mad men wa hit at that time the good old days... I remember ohh dick got a younger secretary he is moving up but Harry got the ugly secretary and he is set implying the uglier secretary is more competent. Don’t believe me it was in IBM management guide in 1970s!)

    Note how well they wrote Sisko in same alien diplomatic dealings.

    Ok maybe Sisko was better diplomat and he was after all selected for a diplomatic posting while Janeway was in middle of her Captaincy “ training”.

    The angst against Neelix has more darker roots and again as Carl Sagan put it are we ready for the Contact!
  • [SSR]Trollhammeren[SSR]Trollhammeren ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Some of us are very fond of Neelix I'll have you know. He has a very sad back story, and his devotion to Kes very endearing.

    I didn't like Neelix when I first watched VOY. Then I rewatched it again, still was meh toward him. But then I rewatched a 3rd time and he does have a uniqueness, devotion, and empathy that I can admire. So as much as he's often the annoying ill-timed comic relief, I have grown to tolerate and at times like him. I really think Voyager wouldn't have made it out of the Delta Quadrant without him.

    Neelix is actually really smart (it comes out in a few episodes but generally he hides it, a bit like Guinan in that respect). He doesn't want to join Starfleet because of the responsibility, and he doesn't want to leave the Delta Quadrant, but he's happy to tag along with an awesome crew of friendly, extremely competent idealists who aren't going to expect too much of him. He gets to explore vast areas of the Delta Quadrant he wouldn't otherwise see, learn new things, but most of all grieve while among friends who don't remind him of his pain.

    His ditzy nature hides a very sharp mind, he's an excellent trader with a fantastic memory, he helps out with warp physics (the Lizard Episode), he takes on Q in defense of Captain Janeway, deals with his grief with forgiveness (which considering how hardcore his race had been treated was pretty exemplary) and generally helps the crew out in heaps of small ways to get them safely through the parts of the Delta Quadrant he knew.

    And he was a badass chef. You can't go wrong with a chef who's willing to experiment and create all sorts of mad dishes imo!
    And
    I did not see any of the perfectly formed visaged Hollywood look crew volunteering to babysit the only child on the ship either.
    Methinks the disdain against the one who did not look like the rest has other deep rooted genesis. This even translates to the writers of the show whose own inner demons reflected in the character presentation of Neelix. I know writers change over seasons but that the later writers who did bother to read up on previous episodes and still kept introducing inconsistencies about non human character speaks of writers prejudices.
    (And the fans and their racist bile at the time show was airing. I remember hedgehog was nicest thing they said about Neelix.)
    Don’t get me wrong, the writers wrote up or rather wrote down Janeway and her diplomatic skills denigrating a woman leader. Again another deep rooted societal flaw ( no wonder mad men wa hit at that time the good old days... I remember ohh dick got a younger secretary he is moving up but Harry got the ugly secretary and he is set implying the uglier secretary is more competent. Don’t believe me it was in IBM management guide in 1970s!)

    Note how well they wrote Sisko in same alien diplomatic dealings.

    Ok maybe Sisko was better diplomat and he was after all selected for a diplomatic posting while Janeway was in middle of her Captaincy “ training”.

    The angst against Neelix has more darker roots and again as Carl Sagan put it are we ready for the Contact!

    Unnecessary comment removed. ˜Shan The only good thing about Neelix is that he made Westley look less of a an all-out dogooder...


    PS: I still shudder every time I see those eyebrows....
  • Data was the Ops (short for Operations) officer on the Enterprise-D.
    He was neither navigator, pilot nor helmsman. These three combined formed the station next to him, Conn (short for Flight Controller). Geordi largely occupied this in the first season, then Wesley took over, then they got an assortment of irregular characters there (including Ensign Ro).

    In TOS, the weapons could be operated from either of the two forward stations (Helm and Navigation). This is probably due to the fact that for a large part of the series, at any given time only one of these stations was occupied by a character with a speaking part, so they just gave the lines to whomever was there that week. (Sulu and Chekov only appeared together at their respective stations in 21/79 episodes).
  • Some of us are very fond of Neelix I'll have you know. He has a very sad back story, and his devotion to Kes very endearing.

    I didn't like Neelix when I first watched VOY. Then I rewatched it again, still was meh toward him. But then I rewatched a 3rd time and he does have a uniqueness, devotion, and empathy that I can admire. So as much as he's often the annoying ill-timed comic relief, I have grown to tolerate and at times like him. I really think Voyager wouldn't have made it out of the Delta Quadrant without him.

    Neelix is actually really smart (it comes out in a few episodes but generally he hides it, a bit like Guinan in that respect). He doesn't want to join Starfleet because of the responsibility, and he doesn't want to leave the Delta Quadrant, but he's happy to tag along with an awesome crew of friendly, extremely competent idealists who aren't going to expect too much of him. He gets to explore vast areas of the Delta Quadrant he wouldn't otherwise see, learn new things, but most of all grieve while among friends who don't remind him of his pain.

    His ditzy nature hides a very sharp mind, he's an excellent trader with a fantastic memory, he helps out with warp physics (the Lizard Episode), he takes on Q in defense of Captain Janeway, deals with his grief with forgiveness (which considering how hardcore his race had been treated was pretty exemplary) and generally helps the crew out in heaps of small ways to get them safely through the parts of the Delta Quadrant he knew.

    And he was a badass chef. You can't go wrong with a chef who's willing to experiment and create all sorts of mad dishes imo!
    And
    I did not see any of the perfectly formed visaged Hollywood look crew volunteering to babysit the only child on the ship either.
    Methinks the disdain against the one who did not look like the rest has other deep rooted genesis. This even translates to the writers of the show whose own inner demons reflected in the character presentation of Neelix. I know writers change over seasons but that the later writers who did bother to read up on previous episodes and still kept introducing inconsistencies about non human character speaks of writers prejudices.
    (And the fans and their racist bile at the time show was airing. I remember hedgehog was nicest thing they said about Neelix.)
    Don’t get me wrong, the writers wrote up or rather wrote down Janeway and her diplomatic skills denigrating a woman leader. Again another deep rooted societal flaw ( no wonder mad men wa hit at that time the good old days... I remember ohh dick got a younger secretary he is moving up but Harry got the ugly secretary and he is set implying the uglier secretary is more competent. Don’t believe me it was in IBM management guide in 1970s!)

    Note how well they wrote Sisko in same alien diplomatic dealings.

    Ok maybe Sisko was better diplomat and he was after all selected for a diplomatic posting while Janeway was in middle of her Captaincy “ training”.

    The angst against Neelix has more darker roots and again as Carl Sagan put it are we ready for the Contact!

    I would argue the dislike of Neelix is owing to the fact that he had zero masculine traits. He was soft, gentle and kind, he was a little ditzy, always wanted to please, didn't have a strong voice, and did decidedly unmasculine tasks like 'morale officer' and 'babysitter' and to many, 'cooking'.

    I'd suggest that the dislike of Neelix is rather more misogynistic in nature rather than racist.
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    https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
  • edited November 2018
    I'd suggest that the dislike of Neelix is rather more misogynistic in nature rather than racist.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    There are plenty of things I like that others dislike, yet I feel no need to stick on a judge outfit and proclaim them something, something -ist. It's a matter of taste. I quite like a bit of Public Enemy, most of my friends don't, and none of their hobbies include "oppressing black people because Chuck D"

    I dislike Neelix purely because he was written godawfully. As was most of VOY to be honest. Regardless of gender.

    Got to meet Garret Wang once. He's far more interesting than Harry Kim. And, not to be unkind to Garret Wang, he's hardly an Oliver Reed force-of-nature type.

    That's the problem. Terrible, terrible writing. Not racism, sexism or any other -ism except maybe crappywritingism.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    furyd wrote: »
    I'd suggest that the dislike of Neelix is rather more misogynistic in nature rather than racist.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    There are plenty of things I like that others dislike, yet I feel no need to stick on a judge outfit and proclaim them something, something -ist. It's a matter of taste. I quite like a bit of Public Enemy, most of my friends don't, and none of their hobbies include "oppressing black people because Chuck D"

    I dislike Neelix purely because he was written godawfully. As was most of VOY to be honest. Regardless of gender.

    Got to meet Garret Wang once. He's far more interesting than Harry Kim. And, not to be unkind to Garret Wang, he's hardly an Oliver Reed force-of-nature type.

    That's the problem. Terrible, terrible writing. Not racism, sexism or any other -ism except maybe crappywritingism.

    Amen. Neelix is unlikable, at least early on, because he is a petulant and borderline abusive person, particularly towards Kes and Tuvok in that dementia-themed episode. Neelix seemed more bummed that Tuvok could get better - and therefore no longer be a close companion - than he was happy that Tuvok could resume a normal life. He became more likable over time for me but there is a definite ceiling on that caused by poor writing.
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of us are very fond of Neelix I'll have you know. He has a very sad back story, and his devotion to Kes very endearing.

    I didn't like Neelix when I first watched VOY. Then I rewatched it again, still was meh toward him. But then I rewatched a 3rd time and he does have a uniqueness, devotion, and empathy that I can admire. So as much as he's often the annoying ill-timed comic relief, I have grown to tolerate and at times like him. I really think Voyager wouldn't have made it out of the Delta Quadrant without him.

    Neelix is actually really smart (it comes out in a few episodes but generally he hides it, a bit like Guinan in that respect). He doesn't want to join Starfleet because of the responsibility, and he doesn't want to leave the Delta Quadrant, but he's happy to tag along with an awesome crew of friendly, extremely competent idealists who aren't going to expect too much of him. He gets to explore vast areas of the Delta Quadrant he wouldn't otherwise see, learn new things, but most of all grieve while among friends who don't remind him of his pain.

    His ditzy nature hides a very sharp mind, he's an excellent trader with a fantastic memory, he helps out with warp physics (the Lizard Episode), he takes on Q in defense of Captain Janeway, deals with his grief with forgiveness (which considering how hardcore his race had been treated was pretty exemplary) and generally helps the crew out in heaps of small ways to get them safely through the parts of the Delta Quadrant he knew.

    And he was a badass chef. You can't go wrong with a chef who's willing to experiment and create all sorts of mad dishes imo!
    And
    I did not see any of the perfectly formed visaged Hollywood look crew volunteering to babysit the only child on the ship either.
    Methinks the disdain against the one who did not look like the rest has other deep rooted genesis. This even translates to the writers of the show whose own inner demons reflected in the character presentation of Neelix. I know writers change over seasons but that the later writers who did bother to read up on previous episodes and still kept introducing inconsistencies about non human character speaks of writers prejudices.
    (And the fans and their racist bile at the time show was airing. I remember hedgehog was nicest thing they said about Neelix.)
    Don’t get me wrong, the writers wrote up or rather wrote down Janeway and her diplomatic skills denigrating a woman leader. Again another deep rooted societal flaw ( no wonder mad men wa hit at that time the good old days... I remember ohh dick got a younger secretary he is moving up but Harry got the ugly secretary and he is set implying the uglier secretary is more competent. Don’t believe me it was in IBM management guide in 1970s!)

    Note how well they wrote Sisko in same alien diplomatic dealings.

    Ok maybe Sisko was better diplomat and he was after all selected for a diplomatic posting while Janeway was in middle of her Captaincy “ training”.

    The angst against Neelix has more darker roots and again as Carl Sagan put it are we ready for the Contact!

    I would argue the dislike of Neelix is owing to the fact that he had zero masculine traits. He was soft, gentle and kind, he was a little ditzy, always wanted to please, didn't have a strong voice, and did decidedly unmasculine tasks like 'morale officer' and 'babysitter' and to many, 'cooking'.

    I'd suggest that the dislike of Neelix is rather more misogynistic in nature rather than racist.

    I've never finished the later seasons of Voyager. I dislike Neelix because he presents himself as loving to Kes, but he is insanely jealous and untrusting. Also he is disrespectful of the culture of the people he joins. Janeway should have gotten rid of him early on. I understand he gets better in later seasons. Someday I will watch those.
  • Capt. ChaosCapt. Chaos ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of us are very fond of Neelix I'll have you know. He has a very sad back story, and his devotion to Kes very endearing.

    I didn't like Neelix when I first watched VOY. Then I rewatched it again, still was meh toward him. But then I rewatched a 3rd time and he does have a uniqueness, devotion, and empathy that I can admire. So as much as he's often the annoying ill-timed comic relief, I have grown to tolerate and at times like him. I really think Voyager wouldn't have made it out of the Delta Quadrant without him.

    You deserve some kind of medal for watching Voyager three times.
  • And all of this has to do with „Pinafore Data“(thread title) WHAT?
    •SSR Delta Flyers•
  • HaBlackHaBlack ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would argue the dislike of Neelix is owing to the fact that he had zero masculine traits. He was soft, gentle and kind, he was a little ditzy, always wanted to please, didn't have a strong voice, and did decidedly unmasculine tasks like 'morale officer' and 'babysitter' and to many, 'cooking'.

    Strange thing is to say "Neelix had zero masculine traits", after all he seduced a Klingon woman
    dodep35pk88k.jpg

    PlayingSince: 2016-09-16Can we get some more characters from TAS?We finally have Caitians in the game!Character wishlist:
    • Lieutenant M'Ress - got her
    • Amanda Rogers - got her
    • Admiral S'rrel from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - not in the game yet
    • Agmar - not in the game yet
    • M'yra - not in the game yet
  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    And all of this has to do with „Pinafore Data“(thread title) WHAT?

    They both sing?

    So it’s time for a 5* Pinafore Picard...
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    And all of this has to do with „Pinafore Data“(thread title) WHAT?

    They both sing?

    So it’s time for a 5* Pinafore Picard...

    Better yet, a 5* Singing Neelix card :p
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • And all of this has to do with „Pinafore Data“(thread title) WHAT?

    They both sing?

    So it’s time for a 5* Pinafore Picard...

    Better yet, a 5* Singing Neelix card :p

    In a Pinafore Dress. That's a joke btw.

    If you want to talk bad writing, Neelix seducing a Klingon female was right up there as bizarre.
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  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And all of this has to do with „Pinafore Data“(thread title) WHAT?

    They both sing?

    So it’s time for a 5* Pinafore Picard...

    Better yet, a 5* Singing Neelix card :p

    Well, there was a Dancing Neelix...

    nw1lydj1jdkf.gif

    The ladies all love those Talaxian feet.
    ail18f3sekle.jpg


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
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