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Bashir IS AN AUGMENT!!!

S31S31 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 2018 in The Bridge
Bashir isn't Engineered he is an Augment. If non-canon non-existant Picard, Riker and O'Brien are Augments then Bashir is also an Augment.

If Bashir was just Engineered and not an Augment then he wouldn't have to hide his deep secret. In TNG there is an episode in which they showed research station with Engineered kids.

Even Memory Alpha says how Bashir is Post-Eugenics Human Augment
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Comments

  • There's already a post on this in the Engineering forum requesting fixes to some crew from the augments/engineered changes. I believe it's currently impossible to complete the Augment collection if I recall correctly, for anyone who does not already have it complete.

    Bashir is mentioned in that post, and it was acknowledged by Shan.

    FYI in future, posting about a genuine glitch report is best done in that forum (after checking for an existing duplicate).
  • Bashir is not a part of the Augment faction, which is what that trait is now being used for. Using that, it makes sense that Picard, Riker, and O'Brien would be Augments, but not Bashir. All should be Engineered.
  • Quit GameQuit Game ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    It's ridiculous, they removed 5 crew that I had immortalized from the collection (luckily, I have completed that collection) but they didn't remove Hippocrates Noah from the physician collection when he is no physician whatsoever... And the max amount of crew is now 9 with 10 being a completion. Unacceptable!!!
  • At the very least the cards previously eligible should be grandfathered in, Noah-style. I suspect that will happen soon.
  • Putting aside, for a moment, the technical impact on the Collection, I think it's reasonable to define "Augment" politically.

    Even putting politics aside, I'm fairly certain the "Augments" were genetically enhanced as embryos, whereas Bashir was modified post-birth. It's late enough he even has vague memories of his childhood before being enhanced.

    The technical issue certainly needs to be resolved. Whether it's restoring the Augment trait, or just putting Bashir back in that collection without it, or remaking that collection "Engineered," et cetera . . .
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  • guest_7456 wrote: »
    Shouldn't all the tos smooth-forehead klingons get the engineered trait since like bashir they're not a part of the augment faction, but have been genetically engineered with the same techniques?

    Remember, that wasn't so much intentional engineering, as it was an engineering mistake!
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  • Making up an engineered group makes no sense honestly. Whats wrong with all augmented people being augments? I guess DB must me making money off of various collections and want to make that one, which was hard already, harder.
  • The Fish wrote: »
    Making up an engineered group makes no sense honestly. Whats wrong with all augmented people being augments? I guess DB must me making money off of various collections and want to make that one, which was hard already, harder.

    How about currently impossible? Max crew 9 and to complete the collection you need 10. I am so happy that I completed this collection before this mess.
  • Mr. LincolnMr. Lincoln ✭✭✭✭✭
    That was non
    That was sense
    That was nonsense
  • DeanWinsDeanWins ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    So Is DB just making stuff up as they go?
    It was pretty clear on the show that he was classified as an augment

    I suppose its possible, he is both engineered and an augment, but either way he shouldn't of been removed from the collection.
  • ·§ë· For the Many·§ë· For the Many ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Oh yeah. He was classified as an augment in the show. As was Sarina Douglas and the others. I thought?

    This is like 2 versions of the EMH, who performed physician duties during the episodes those versions are from, not having the physician trait.

    I should've cited Bashir before he was deemed a Fake News Augment. One away from the collection, and I figured another non-5* would come along at some point.
  • S31S31 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DeanWins wrote: »
    So Is DB just making stuff up as they go?
    It was pretty clear on the show that he was classified as an augment

    I suppose its possible, he is both engineered and an augment, but either way he shouldn't of been removed from the collection.

    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Augments
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    guest_7456 wrote: »
    Shouldn't all the tos smooth-forehead klingons get the engineered trait since like bashir they're not a part of the augment faction, but have been genetically engineered with the same techniques?

    Although I see your point, they were that way due to a mistake rather than an intent to make modifications. Well, that and the fact that Klingon geneticists needed 115 years of work to fix the problem that Arik Soong possibly could have handled in a weekend. :smile:
  • He is augmentED. Not an Augment.

    He isn't a member of the faction Augments. In this game an Augment is someone who belongs to that faction. It really is that simple.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    He is augmentED. Not an Augment.

    He isn't a member of the faction Augments. In this game an Augment is someone who belongs to that faction. It really is that simple.

    Except I know of no star trek show evidence that supports this assertion by DB.
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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    In terms of STT:

    An Augment is a supporter of Khan in the Eugenics War.

    An Engineered individual is someone who has been genetically augmented/modified.

    You can be both (Khan himself, Malik, Persis)

    You can just be an Augment (Arik, McGivers)

    You can just be Engineered (Sarina, Bashir, Danar)

    You can be neither (most any other character)

    Now, DB has NOT been consistent so far with this yet, but I suspect they will with time.

    This makes complete sense because in the game we have "factions" and "Augment" is a "faction". Bashir never aligned with the views or actions of that group of individuals that were "Augments".

    Indeed, we had this discussion months ago on the trait thread in the Make It So part of the forum -- and we came to the same conclusion. The only outstanding issue is how to fix the collection. Grandfathering in the Bashirs that were already part of the collection, etc., would be one good way to handle it.
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  • IIRC, the only times the term Augment was used in-show was in the Enterprise storyline regarding them (both the Soong trilogy and the Klingon-Augment incident).

    Everywhere else, it was termed something like "genetically enhanced." DB has chosen to use the term "Engineered." "Augment" is now a faction identifier, like KCA. Everyone who is part of Khan's faction (except for joiners like McGivers) should have both tags; otherwise they should just be Engineered.
  • He is augmentED. Not an Augment.

    He isn't a member of the faction Augments. In this game an Augment is someone who belongs to that faction. It really is that simple.

    Except I know of no star trek show evidence that supports this assertion by DB.

    I know of no Star Trek show that had an augmentED Picard or Riker either.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    He is augmentED. Not an Augment.

    He isn't a member of the faction Augments. In this game an Augment is someone who belongs to that faction. It really is that simple.

    Except I know of no star trek show evidence that supports this assertion by DB.

    I know of no Star Trek show that had an augmentED Picard or Riker either.

    Yes but having an augment riker and picard were adding something, removing Bashir's augment status is taking something away. I think a better solution was to rework the faction store. There are hardly any Hirogen, only a few Augments now after the change, and a ton of Borg with no faction.
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  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    The argument that Bashir is not an "Augment" because he was never a member of that faction is dumb. Tora Ziyal was born on Bajor and never really considered herself aligned with the Cardassians either politically or socially, yet is still a Cardassian. The Vulcan Sakonna who joined the Maquis faction is still a Vulcan.

    I understand the need for the "Engineered" trait, to cover crew like Airiam, but that should not necessarily also be applied to all who previously had the Augment trait, as it just muddles things up. I agree with the OP that Bashir is still an Augment. As a compromise, if they want to specifically have a trait for those who are part of that faction, then change all the crew who (prior to this most recent change) had the Augment trait to "Augmented"... and for those who align themselves with the faction, give them a trait like "Augment Faction" or something (and that could include Marla McGivers).


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    The argument that Bashir is not an "Augment" because he was never a member of that faction is dumb. Tora Ziyal was born on Bajor and never really considered herself aligned with the Cardassians either politically or socially, yet is still a Cardassian. The Vulcan Sakonna who joined the Maquis faction is still a Vulcan.

    I understand the need for the "Engineered" trait, to cover crew like Airiam, but that should not necessarily also be applied to all who previously had the Augment trait, as it just muddles things up. I agree with the OP that Bashir is still an Augment. As a compromise, if they want to specifically have a trait for those who are part of that faction, then change all the crew who (prior to this most recent change) had the Augment trait to "Augmented"... and for those who align themselves with the faction, give them a trait like "Augment Faction" or something (and that could include Marla McGivers).

    They do have that trait. It is "Augment". You're just arguing semantics at this point.
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    The argument that Bashir is not an "Augment" because he was never a member of that faction is dumb. Tora Ziyal was born on Bajor and never really considered herself aligned with the Cardassians either politically or socially, yet is still a Cardassian. The Vulcan Sakonna who joined the Maquis faction is still a Vulcan.

    I understand the need for the "Engineered" trait, to cover crew like Airiam, but that should not necessarily also be applied to all who previously had the Augment trait, as it just muddles things up. I agree with the OP that Bashir is still an Augment. As a compromise, if they want to specifically have a trait for those who are part of that faction, then change all the crew who (prior to this most recent change) had the Augment trait to "Augmented"... and for those who align themselves with the faction, give them a trait like "Augment Faction" or something (and that could include Marla McGivers).

    They do have that trait. It is "Augment". You're just arguing semantics at this point.

    No, what I'm arguing is that Bashir should have the same trait as "Khan's Gang" (my own term). And if the reasoning behind removing it from him is that "Augment" is now considered to be a Faction rather than a genetic manipulation, then that's just silly.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Odo MarmarosaOdo Marmarosa ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Since at least the start of the event Augment was changed to Augments (plural) to more clearly repressent membership of the faction.

    In this context, it makes more since to use Engineered as a broader catagory trait repressenting modified beings, of which augmented humans like Khan and Bashir are a subtype.

    The Collection should be changed to the Engineered trait in order to preserve the intent of the collection.

    FWIW, Roga Dagnar has none of these traits
  • If Bashir is not an Augment why is he purchasable in the Augments faction shop ?

    Engineered is such a poorly chosen phrase... I mean, Data was surely engineered...
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stygian wrote: »
    If Bashir is not an Augment why is he purchasable in the Augments faction shop ?

    Because DB hasn't gotten around to changing all the things affected by this reassociation. They just released the change maybe 2 days ago. It'll take time for them to find where the change affects things it shouldn't affect and fix it.

    Ideally this is something they should have considered before rolling out the change and that way when everything was assessed, then upon rolling out the change all affected areas would be properly changed too.

    But we all know DB has little to no foresight or well-executed planning.

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  • This is all down to DB screwing up the concept of traits from the get go.

    There should Species, Affiliation and Traits

    So Bashir would be:

    Species: Human, Augment
    Affiliation: Federation, Starfleet
    Traits: Engineered, Physician, yadda, yadda

    Whereas Augment Picard would be:

    Species: Human, Augment
    Affiliation: Augment
    Traits: Yadda, yadda, yadda.

    But DB opted to pile everything together and so confusion reigns.
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    furyd wrote: »
    This is all down to DB screwing up the concept of traits from the get go.

    There should Species, Affiliation and Traits

    So Bashir would be:

    Species: Human, Augment
    Affiliation: Federation, Starfleet
    Traits: Engineered, Physician, yadda, yadda

    Whereas Augment Picard would be:

    Species: Human, Augment
    Affiliation: Augment
    Traits: Yadda, yadda, yadda.

    But DB opted to pile everything together and so confusion reigns.

    That's a really good point, furyd. So when you and I make our own Star Trek game, we'll do it right. o:)


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
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