Regarding factions, I have never collected enough boosts between consecutive events to do much more than kickstart and maybe a bit of an early run. After the changes it has become more of an every third faction thing if I want to place decent. Not complaining, just saying that if you are going into every faction event with 60+ boosts you are either spending dilithium or RNG loves you so much more than me.
This is exactly why I challenge everyone who said they’ve still done okay in the last couple Faction events on the sustainability of their approach. With careful timing and ad-doublers, you can get twelve 10x standard boost packs every Thursday. Depending on VIP level, you can get one or two more a month from daily rewards (there are the three or six ten-packs of the basic boosts with their 2.5% drop rate of 3* boosts that I will not count for simplicity’s sake). The last few events’ threshold rewards seem to have different numbers but 1-3 more 10x standard boosts are available during the event.
On average, let’s call it 13 10x standard boost packs per week. 3* boosts have a 90% chance to drop but there are eight different kinds to choose from; assuming they are weighted equally, that’s an overall chance of 11.25% per drop and roughly 15 3* time boosts per week. RNGesus may be with you and between the all sources (including 4*/5* time boost drops) you could be looking at 20 useful time boosts a week without spending dil on extra Thursday cadet tickets or buying boost packs. That’s one-third or one-quarter of what is necessary to guarantee competitiveness for top-1000 finishes every single week. My experience in Peldor Joi backs this up: I used about 100 3* boosts and a dozen-plus 4*/5* boosts to finish in 153rd place. I had 130 3* boosts to start with because I changed my Faction event strategy from using all the 3* boosts I had to using none or only using a few during the kickstart...months ago.
We can continue debating whether or not F2P/VIP0 players “deserve” to finish in the top 1000 in every single event or not, but let’s stop pretending that it is possible on a continuous, long-term basis.
Well, the changes have certainly destroyed my will to play. And fleetwide spending is down.
Sure, there's nothing wrong with not being able to always get everything. But there needs to feel like there's some reward. Especially for all the extra dollars and hours and other efforts required. To get less than we did before.
I can think of a dozen other games that you can easily spend just as much on, but give far more fun and return on investment for far less.
Regarding factions, I have never collected enough boosts between consecutive events to do much more than kickstart and maybe a bit of an early run. After the changes it has become more of an every third faction thing if I want to place decent. Not complaining, just saying that if you are going into every faction event with 60+ boosts you are either spending dilithium or RNG loves you so much more than me.
This is exactly why I challenge everyone who said they’ve still done okay in the last couple Faction events on the sustainability of their approach. With careful timing and ad-doublers, you can get twelve 10x standard boost packs every Thursday. Depending on VIP level, you can get one or two more a month from daily rewards (there are the three or six ten-packs of the basic boosts with their 2.5% drop rate of 3* boosts that I will not count for simplicity’s sake). The last few events’ threshold rewards seem to have different numbers but 1-3 more 10x standard boosts are available during the event.
On average, let’s call it 13 10x standard boost packs per week. 3* boosts have a 90% chance to drop but there are eight different kinds to choose from; assuming they are weighted equally, that’s an overall chance of 11.25% per drop and roughly 15 3* time boosts per week. RNGesus may be with you and between the all sources (including 4*/5* time boost drops) you could be looking at 20 useful time boosts a week without spending dil on extra Thursday cadet tickets or buying boost packs. That’s one-third or one-quarter of what is necessary to guarantee competitiveness for top-1000 finishes every single week. My experience in Peldor Joi backs this up: I used about 100 3* boosts and a dozen-plus 4*/5* boosts to finish in 153rd place. I had 130 3* boosts to start with because I changed my Faction event strategy from using all the 3* boosts I had to using none or only using a few during the kickstart...months ago.
We can continue debating whether or not F2P/VIP0 players “deserve” to finish in the top 1000 in every single event or not, but let’s stop pretending that it is possible on a continuous, long-term basis.
There aren't faction events every week. Between galaxy, skirmish, and arguably faction/galaxy hybrids(we'll see how this one plays out this week) you can have 3-4 weeks between pure faction events. That 15x3=45 to 20*4=80 speed boosts available for the faction event. We'll see what the steady state looks like as we have more of these, but 45 to 80 speed boosts should be enough to be under 1k.
My experience in Peldor Joi backs this up: I used about 100 3* boosts and a dozen-plus 4*/5* boosts to finish in 153rd place. I had 130 3* boosts to start with because I changed my Faction event strategy from using all the 3* boosts I had to using none or only using a few during the kickstart...months ago.
153rd place is not 989th place but with the same 5* prize nevertheless. I used 40 3* Boosts to get the latter. More than I preferred but that's the only significant resource I used. That's a close shave and one that could've been fixed by using a little more but that's it.
This week we have a hybrid. I plan on using 8x 3* and 3x 0* Time Boosts. That's it. I'll make up the rest during the Galaxy portion. I'll be well stocked by the end of the month assuming I want to go hard during that event.
My experience in Peldor Joi backs this up: I used about 100 3* boosts and a dozen-plus 4*/5* boosts to finish in 153rd place. I had 130 3* boosts to start with because I changed my Faction event strategy from using all the 3* boosts I had to using none or only using a few during the kickstart...months ago.
153rd place is not 989th place but with the same 5* prize nevertheless. I used 40 3* Boosts to get the latter. More than I preferred but that's the only significant resource I used. That's a close shave and one that could've been fixed by using a little more but that's it.
This week we have a hybrid. I plan on using 8x 3* and 3x 0* Time Boosts. That's it. I'll make up the rest during the Galaxy portion. I'll be well stocked by the end of the month assuming I want to go hard during that event.
Paranoia at missing out due to a late rush kept pushing me. If 40-50 boosts can guarantee a finish in the top 1000, that’s still more than can be reasonably attained on a regular basis.
Regarding factions, I have never collected enough boosts between consecutive events to do much more than kickstart and maybe a bit of an early run. After the changes it has become more of an every third faction thing if I want to place decent. Not complaining, just saying that if you are going into every faction event with 60+ boosts you are either spending dilithium or RNG loves you so much more than me.
This is exactly why I challenge everyone who said they’ve still done okay in the last couple Faction events on the sustainability of their approach. With careful timing and ad-doublers, you can get twelve 10x standard boost packs every Thursday. Depending on VIP level, you can get one or two more a month from daily rewards (there are the three or six ten-packs of the basic boosts with their 2.5% drop rate of 3* boosts that I will not count for simplicity’s sake). The last few events’ threshold rewards seem to have different numbers but 1-3 more 10x standard boosts are available during the event.
On average, let’s call it 13 10x standard boost packs per week. 3* boosts have a 90% chance to drop but there are eight different kinds to choose from; assuming they are weighted equally, that’s an overall chance of 11.25% per drop and roughly 15 3* time boosts per week. RNGesus may be with you and between the all sources (including 4*/5* time boost drops) you could be looking at 20 useful time boosts a week without spending dil on extra Thursday cadet tickets or buying boost packs. That’s one-third or one-quarter of what is necessary to guarantee competitiveness for top-1000 finishes every single week. My experience in Peldor Joi backs this up: I used about 100 3* boosts and a dozen-plus 4*/5* boosts to finish in 153rd place. I had 130 3* boosts to start with because I changed my Faction event strategy from using all the 3* boosts I had to using none or only using a few during the kickstart...months ago.
We can continue debating whether or not F2P/VIP0 players “deserve” to finish in the top 1000 in every single event or not, but let’s stop pretending that it is possible on a continuous, long-term basis.
There aren't faction events every week. Between galaxy, skirmish, and arguably faction/galaxy hybrids(we'll see how this one plays out this week) you can have 3-4 weeks between pure faction events. That 15x3=45 to 20*4=80 speed boosts available for the faction event. We'll see what the steady state looks like as we have more of these, but 45 to 80 speed boosts should be enough to be under 1k.
I would include the Faction/Galaxy hybrids as well as people can avoid draining their chroniton and item stockpiles. The volume will likely be lower, of course, but I wouldn’t discount them entirely.
A company trying to make people want to use their product more. Oh how evil they are. How dare we let a company encourage us to play its game more. Scoundrels!
Making people play more is not the same as trying to put players in a position where they will have to start spending money to achieve the same results they were previously able to achieve through gameplay alone. I don't think there's anyone who plays the game more consistently or with more thought, strategy, and effort than the F2P fleet, for example. Making changes that create a bigger imbalance between P2W and F2P (or even pays some [e.g., monthly card only] vs. pays a lot) does not encourage gameplay. It encourages spending in lieu of gameplay.
I’d consider forgetting a free shuttle to be very inconvenient. What on Earth are you talking about?
The sharp drop in price for a fourth shuttle accompanied by the ability to get enough dil to buy said shuttle almost immediately when the Achievements were introduced.
Honestly, I think the only reason they didn't intro a new permanent 5th shuttle at the time was because they didn't want to have to rethink any of the math for Faction events. The reason we have rent-a-shuttle now is Tilting Point has decided they're happy to have the money without a) giving players a persisting benefit and b) without rebalancing the event math beyond expanding the thresholds.
Regarding factions, I have never collected enough boosts between consecutive events to do much more than kickstart and maybe a bit of an early run. After the changes it has become more of an every third faction thing if I want to place decent. Not complaining, just saying that if you are going into every faction event with 60+ boosts you are either spending dilithium or RNG loves you so much more than me.
Having a few dozen 3+ time boosts requires ad-running 2x rewards for every cadet run on Thursdays, at the Elite level, and even then it has to be a few weeks between Faction events. The number I had to blow this last time and still not get top 1k was ludicrous; even the number needed just to get to the end of thresholds was rather high.
There's a lot of odd assumptions popping up in this thread. The worst one is: that it is somehow desireable for a player (or the game) that a certain group of people can auto top 1k in factions. No one who isn't spending a lot of money should be capable of just sleepily grabbing a faction legendary every time it pops up. Make choices. Don't assume you can just win the prize every time. This is a good change.
Just don't play to win every faction (or galaxy or skirmish for that matter). Be selective. It will do a lot to make sure you don't have a lot of useless 1/5s on your roster too.
A company trying to make people want to use their product more. Oh how evil they are. How dare we let a company encourage us to play its game more. Scoundrels!
Making people play more is not the same as trying to put players in a position where they will have to start spending money to achieve the same results they were previously able to achieve through gameplay alone. I don't think there's anyone who plays the game more consistently or with more thought, strategy, and effort than the F2P fleet, for example. Making changes that create a bigger imbalance between P2W and F2P (or even pays some [e.g., monthly card only] vs. pays a lot) does not encourage gameplay. It encourages spending in lieu of gameplay.
I'm not in the F2P fleet because I did spend a drop of money at one point when it made a difference, but after playing since the start I'm VIP3. I've spent 0 the past year. My thought and gameplay is much more similar to the F2P fleet than anything else.
I ranked under 1k in both faction events and ranked 22 this past galaxy event. For players that play consistently with strategy, you can still perform well even after these changes.
Doing 1.5 or 3 hour wakeups violates my sense of fun.....you know, fun. What people who play games are supposed to be having? Having said that, fine, if some people feel that competing to be the best gives them joy.....<does my best Pontius Pilate impersonation>
Regarding factions, I have never collected enough boosts between consecutive events to do much more than kickstart and maybe a bit of an early run. After the changes it has become more of an every third faction thing if I want to place decent. Not complaining, just saying that if you are going into every faction event with 60+ boosts you are either spending dilithium or RNG loves you so much more than me.
This is exactly why I challenge everyone who said they’ve still done okay in the last couple Faction events on the sustainability of their approach. With careful timing and ad-doublers, you can get twelve 10x standard boost packs every Thursday. Depending on VIP level, you can get one or two more a month from daily rewards (there are the three or six ten-packs of the basic boosts with their 2.5% drop rate of 3* boosts that I will not count for simplicity’s sake). The last few events’ threshold rewards seem to have different numbers but 1-3 more 10x standard boosts are available during the event.
That's strange, you didn't challenge me when I said it was sustainable. Like I said before, I'm now spending ~30 rare time boosters, compared with 10-15 before, and it appears sustainable - particularly because I'm placing hundreds of places higher now! I only want top 650 (gives me a safe margin and two extra rare portals) but I've placed in the 300s for the last two events.
On average, let’s call it 13 10x standard boost packs per week. 3* boosts have a 90% chance to drop but there are eight different kinds to choose from; assuming they are weighted equally, that’s an overall chance of 11.25% per drop and roughly 15 3* time boosts per week.
I can accept these numbers. Two Faction / Faction/Hybrid events per month, a spend of 60 to get top 3xx in both, and an income of 60. (That's assuming you spend the full 30 during a hybrid - there's flexibility there to use fewer and knock out a few more Galaxy items instead.)
I think I see your problem. You're going for rank 153rd (?!?). Try going for rank 600-700 to get basically the same prizes. Or perhaps your shuttle management needs improvement. It's not simply a case of opening a mission and sending out whatever crew are at the top of the list. There are a few useful tactics that can increase shuttle effectiveness that might help you to get more VP using fewer time boosters.
But in my experience, and as your own numbers support, top 1000 is sustainable for free if you have a decent enough crew and understand the best ways to play.
No one who isn't spending a lot of money should be capable of just sleepily grabbing a faction legendary every time it pops up.
That's not a game anymore.
The one where some folks feel entitled to win all of the time or the one where most of us have to play and a small few who help keep the lights on around here can pay to get the prize?
(which they can do anyway without competing, so they are not likely to be paying $50 to place top 1k)
Regarding factions, I have never collected enough boosts between consecutive events to do much more than kickstart and maybe a bit of an early run. After the changes it has become more of an every third faction thing if I want to place decent. Not complaining, just saying that if you are going into every faction event with 60+ boosts you are either spending dilithium or RNG loves you so much more than me.
This is exactly why I challenge everyone who said they’ve still done okay in the last couple Faction events on the sustainability of their approach. With careful timing and ad-doublers, you can get twelve 10x standard boost packs every Thursday. Depending on VIP level, you can get one or two more a month from daily rewards (there are the three or six ten-packs of the basic boosts with their 2.5% drop rate of 3* boosts that I will not count for simplicity’s sake). The last few events’ threshold rewards seem to have different numbers but 1-3 more 10x standard boosts are available during the event.
That's strange, you didn't challenge me when I said it was sustainable. Like I said before, I'm now spending ~30 rare time boosters, compared with 10-15 before, and it appears sustainable - particularly because I'm placing hundreds of places higher now! I only want top 650 (gives me a safe margin and two extra rare portals) but I've placed in the 300s for the last two events.
On average, let’s call it 13 10x standard boost packs per week. 3* boosts have a 90% chance to drop but there are eight different kinds to choose from; assuming they are weighted equally, that’s an overall chance of 11.25% per drop and roughly 15 3* time boosts per week.
I can accept these numbers. Two Faction / Faction/Hybrid events per month, a spend of 60 to get top 3xx in both, and an income of 60. (That's assuming you spend the full 30 during a hybrid - there's flexibility there to use fewer and knock out a few more Galaxy items instead.)
I think I see your problem. You're going for rank 153rd (?!?). Try going for rank 600-700 to get basically the same prizes. Or perhaps your shuttle management needs improvement. It's not simply a case of opening a mission and sending out whatever crew are at the top of the list. There are a few useful tactics that can increase shuttle effectiveness that might help you to get more VP using fewer time boosters.
But in my experience, and as your own numbers support, top 1000 is sustainable for free if you have a decent enough crew and understand the best ways to play.
I wasn’t planning on 153rd, I was highly concerned that being in the top 150 in Saturday then coasting to the finish without more time boosts would drop me out of the top 1000 entirely.
The problem with your math is if the idea of “use 30 time boosts per pure Faction or hybrid Faction event” catches on with more people who might be squatting on boosts until they find an event where they really want a particular crew, or for those who continue to add more bonus crew over time. More people competing for the same spots means you have to use more boosts to get ahead of the pack - it might only take 30 right now to guarantee a top-1000 finish but if even only another 500 people decide to be more competitive on a regular basis, it might take 45 3* boosts per event to ensure a top finish.
It’s not like we haven’t already seen VP creep over the last two years...it’s natural to see this behavior as people join the game and/or add to their crew rosters. Over time, that’s going to make it increasingly more difficult to compete for the same rank.
I wasn’t planning on 153rd, I was highly concerned that being in the top 150 in Saturday then coasting to the finish without more time boosts would drop me out of the top 1000 entirely.
The problem with your math is if the idea of “use 30 time boosts per pure Faction or hybrid Faction event” catches on with more people who might be squatting on boosts until they find an event where they really want a particular crew, or for those who continue to add more bonus crew over time. More people competing for the same spots means you have to use more boosts to get ahead of the pack - it might only take 30 right now to guarantee a top-1000 finish but if even only another 500 people decide to be more competitive on a regular basis, it might take 45 3* boosts per event to ensure a top finish.
It’s not like we haven’t already seen VP creep over the last two years...it’s natural to see this behavior as people join the game and/or add to their crew rosters. Over time, that’s going to make it increasingly more difficult to compete for the same rank.
Thank you so much for this comment. It's rare for me to laugh out loud at even the intentionally-humorous comments here, but I'm a big fan of "idiot-comedy" (like Karl Pilkington), and your comment was absolutely wonderful.
I'll assume you were attempting to be serious, so let me try to explain your misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and wild fantasies.
First of all, your misquote of " “use 30 time boosts per pure Faction or hybrid Faction event” " - you're not quoting what I said, nor are you implying the correct meaning of what I wrote. I was explaining how 30 boosters per Faction / Faction/Hybrid is sustainable, not how it is necessary.
Your point of "for those who continue to add more bonus crew over time." suggests that we are not adding more bonus crew over time, despite regular top-1000 placements. I can't speak for everybody, of course, but when I place top 1000, I don't immediately flush all of my new crew out of the airlock. I also do things like Voyages and Gauntlet, both of which provide me with new crew. Do you airlock all your event crew, not run Voyages, and not play Gauntlet?
Skipping ahead to save the best for last, "It’s not like we haven’t already seen VP creep over the last two years...it’s natural to see this behavior as people join the game and/or add to their crew rosters." - are you saying that you're only getting the same VP that you were two years ago?! You keep seeming to forget that your account should be improving as well. Others are getting new crew - why aren't you? Others improve their ability to play Events and get new crew - why aren't you?
But the absolute star of your comment is "it might only take 30 right now to guarantee a top-1000 finish but if even only another 500 people decide to be more competitive on a regular basis, it might take 45 3* boosts per event to ensure a top finish."
If "even only another 500 people" decide to push into the top 1000, if "even only another 500 people" successfully manage to improve their shuttle VP to the extent that they all push into the top ~1% of the entire scoreboard, if "even only another 500 people" manage that... egads, that's a 50% increase in top 1000 competition!!!! To what do you attribute this sudden 50% increase in competition? What prompts this sudden 50% increase in competition?! Remember that we've just seen an increase in competition thanks to the new thresholds, so you're claiming there could be a further 50% increase in top-1000 competition... on top of that?!
What do you think, that there's some secret group of 500 underdogs who have pledged to ignore the top 1000 and hoard all of their time boosters for the last six months, only to unleash them, all at the same time, with stunning coordination, in one particular event?
And these people were not in the top 1000 before, so they're exactly the "Little Guys" that were supposed to have been squeezed out by the recent changes - but now, all of a sudden, despite those changes, they're in the top 1000?!?
And not only that, but if there's a sudden increase of 50% in top 1000 competition, and if every single one of those people flies past me and my paltry 30 rare time boosters, then based on the numbers so far... I'd still be in the top 1000 anyway! It would take 700 more people to suddenly, out of nowhere, surprise everybody and charge into the top 300 for this to have the effect you're implying (yes, it looks like that makes no sense, but it does! They don't all do it at the same time, y'see).
And even if we pretend that all of those problems with your comment don't exist; even if we pretend that it's entirely possible that there's a cult of 500 wait-for-2019-before-trying-for-top-1000ers out there... what does that have to do with the addition of the extra shuttles? If these 500 completely-real-and-not-at-all-hyperbolic people suddenly charge into the top 1000 next month, why is that any different to if they had done so last month?
30 rare time boosters for every single shuttle-related event seem sustainable (by your numbers and mine), but if you're a good player, you shouldn't need so many to get a top-1000 finish - and while you're not spending so many, you're naturally hoarding for the future. There's plenty of room for flexibility if you're any good at Timelines. You can strawman and hyperbolise all you want (in fact, please do - it's wonderful reading), but the problem your describing does not appear to have any basis in reality.
For me, the problem is still the rank rewards. 16th and 1000th place should not still be getting nearly-identical rewards.
30 rare time boosters for every single shuttle-related event seem sustainable (by your numbers and mine), but if you're a good player, you shouldn't need so many to get a top-1000 finish - and while you're not spending so many, you're naturally hoarding for the future. There's plenty of room for flexibility if you're any good at Timelines. You can strawman and hyperbolise all you want (in fact, please do - it's wonderful reading), but the problem your describing does not appear to have any basis in reality.
Pot meet kettle.
The biggest predictor of success in a shuttle event (aside from boosts and a deep crew) is having the ability to play every three hours. This has nothing to do with being a good player.
For those of us who can't jump on every 3 hours, let alone every hour and a half, heavy use of boosts is the only way to have a hope of equalizing results. I don't have a problem in and of itself for players benefiting from the ability to play more than I do. I do have a problem with being forced to keep up with this artificial advantage in an unsustainable manner. It's poor design and a cynical attempt at monetization.
I wasn’t planning on 153rd, I was highly concerned that being in the top 150 in Saturday then coasting to the finish without more time boosts would drop me out of the top 1000 entirely.
The problem with your math is if the idea of “use 30 time boosts per pure Faction or hybrid Faction event” catches on with more people who might be squatting on boosts until they find an event where they really want a particular crew, or for those who continue to add more bonus crew over time. More people competing for the same spots means you have to use more boosts to get ahead of the pack - it might only take 30 right now to guarantee a top-1000 finish but if even only another 500 people decide to be more competitive on a regular basis, it might take 45 3* boosts per event to ensure a top finish.
It’s not like we haven’t already seen VP creep over the last two years...it’s natural to see this behavior as people join the game and/or add to their crew rosters. Over time, that’s going to make it increasingly more difficult to compete for the same rank.
Thank you so much for this comment. It's rare for me to laugh out loud at even the intentionally-humorous comments here, but I'm a big fan of "idiot-comedy" (like Karl Pilkington), and your comment was absolutely wonderful.
I'll assume you were attempting to be serious, so let me try to explain your misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and wild fantasies.
First of all, your misquote of " “use 30 time boosts per pure Faction or hybrid Faction event” " - you're not quoting what I said, nor are you implying the correct meaning of what I wrote. I was explaining how 30 boosters per Faction / Faction/Hybrid is sustainable, not how it is necessary.
Your point of "for those who continue to add more bonus crew over time." suggests that we are not adding more bonus crew over time, despite regular top-1000 placements. I can't speak for everybody, of course, but when I place top 1000, I don't immediately flush all of my new crew out of the airlock. I also do things like Voyages and Gauntlet, both of which provide me with new crew. Do you airlock all your event crew, not run Voyages, and not play Gauntlet?
Skipping ahead to save the best for last, "It’s not like we haven’t already seen VP creep over the last two years...it’s natural to see this behavior as people join the game and/or add to their crew rosters." - are you saying that you're only getting the same VP that you were two years ago?! You keep seeming to forget that your account should be improving as well. Others are getting new crew - why aren't you? Others improve their ability to play Events and get new crew - why aren't you?
But the absolute star of your comment is "it might only take 30 right now to guarantee a top-1000 finish but if even only another 500 people decide to be more competitive on a regular basis, it might take 45 3* boosts per event to ensure a top finish."
If "even only another 500 people" decide to push into the top 1000, if "even only another 500 people" successfully manage to improve their shuttle VP to the extent that they all push into the top ~1% of the entire scoreboard, if "even only another 500 people" manage that... egads, that's a 50% increase in top 1000 competition!!!! To what do you attribute this sudden 50% increase in competition? What prompts this sudden 50% increase in competition?! Remember that we've just seen an increase in competition thanks to the new thresholds, so you're claiming there could be a further 50% increase in top-1000 competition... on top of that?!
What do you think, that there's some secret group of 500 underdogs who have pledged to ignore the top 1000 and hoard all of their time boosters for the last six months, only to unleash them, all at the same time, with stunning coordination, in one particular event?
And these people were not in the top 1000 before, so they're exactly the "Little Guys" that were supposed to have been squeezed out by the recent changes - but now, all of a sudden, despite those changes, they're in the top 1000?!?
And not only that, but if there's a sudden increase of 50% in top 1000 competition, and if every single one of those people flies past me and my paltry 30 rare time boosters, then based on the numbers so far... I'd still be in the top 1000 anyway! It would take 700 more people to suddenly, out of nowhere, surprise everybody and charge into the top 300 for this to have the effect you're implying (yes, it looks like that makes no sense, but it does! They don't all do it at the same time, y'see).
And even if we pretend that all of those problems with your comment don't exist; even if we pretend that it's entirely possible that there's a cult of 500 wait-for-2019-before-trying-for-top-1000ers out there... what does that have to do with the addition of the extra shuttles? If these 500 completely-real-and-not-at-all-hyperbolic people suddenly charge into the top 1000 next month, why is that any different to if they had done so last month?
30 rare time boosters for every single shuttle-related event seem sustainable (by your numbers and mine), but if you're a good player, you shouldn't need so many to get a top-1000 finish - and while you're not spending so many, you're naturally hoarding for the future. There's plenty of room for flexibility if you're any good at Timelines. You can strawman and hyperbolise all you want (in fact, please do - it's wonderful reading), but the problem your describing does not appear to have any basis in reality.
For me, the problem is still the rank rewards. 16th and 1000th place should not still be getting nearly-identical rewards.
There’s no need to be intentionally obtuse. The claims you make apply to a very specific set of circumstances: you assume that there is zero growth in the number of people who are capable of and willing to compete for the top 1000 on a regular basis, that everyone can be online every 90-180 minutes to collect shuttles, and that DB won’t release 5* crew that lure more people out of hiding from time to time or make further adjustments to thresholds in an attempt to drive participation, competition, and spending. All of these claims have been readily falsifiable over the last few Faction events, and all you can do is complain about the number of additional competitors I pulled out of a hat.
All that being said, you are 1000% correct about the broken nature of ranked rewards. DB highly overvalues the trainers, merits, and even the single portal pulls, making only a handful of ranks really worthy of aiming for...even outside the top 1000. The difference between rank 3001 and rank 100,001 is three hundred honor (unless you’re new or have previously skipped that 3* due to slot limitations), seven purple trainers, and a single portal pull. With an active player base in the many tens of thousands, that’s pretty sad.
Keep in mind, also, that the past 4 (I think counting the Mega and Archer) gold crew have all been top 20 voyage crew. That has made me far more competitive than usual. I had actually planned to skip some events, but instead have played heavily. I won both recent Spocks, and the Sphere Builder, and I will get Archer. I am currently about 500th place and have 15000 Chronitons that say I'll stay there. I have spent, yes, but I have never purchased chroniton packs or boost packs. I have simply spent a very long time building up resources. Soon enough DB will have a gold crew who is not as popular or powerful and then the field will be wide open for "the little guy"
But you are all right that the rewards are laughable outside of a few points. The featured gold should be available to the top X% of players where X equals whatever the top 1000 was a year ago.
There’s no need to be intentionally obtuse. The claims you make apply to a very specific set of circumstances: you assume that there is zero growth in the number of people who are capable of and willing to compete for the top 1000 on a regular basis, that everyone can be online every 90-180 minutes to collect shuttles, and that DB won’t release 5* crew that lure more people out of hiding from time to time or make further adjustments to thresholds in an attempt to drive participation, competition, and spending. All of these claims have been readily falsifiable over the last few Faction events, and all you can do is complain about the number of additional competitors I pulled out of a hat.
All that being said, you are 1000% correct about the broken nature of ranked rewards. DB highly overvalues the trainers, merits, and even the single portal pulls, making only a handful of ranks really worthy of aiming for...even outside the top 1000. The difference between rank 3001 and rank 100,001 is three hundred honor (unless you’re new or have previously skipped that 3* due to slot limitations), seven purple trainers, and a single portal pull. With an active player base in the many tens of thousands, that’s pretty sad.
This may just be a cultural thing, but I do find it offensive when people lie about what I've said. I'm not accustomed to using or dealing with dishonesty, but given that you've done it consistently in both of your comments to me on this subject, it looks like you have no such compunctions. If it was your intent to offend me by making up lies about what I have said, then you have succeeded.
"you assume that there is zero growth in the number of people who are capable of and willing to compete for the top 1000 on a regular basis"
No, I didn't. Thankfully it's an easy lie to disprove, as I actually referenced the opposite in my comment, here (or just scroll up, as you even quoted me saying this), emphasis mine: "You keep seeming to forget that your account should be improving as well. Others are getting new crew - why aren't you? Others improve their ability to play Events and get new crew - why aren't you?"
My "assumption" is that people who play Timelines improve their accounts. A better account is likely to do better. I cannot believe this point has gone over your head twice.
"that everyone can be online every 90-180 minutes to collect shuttles"
No, I don't do that. I sleep fully during events, and don't even set day alarms. In 2018 I've set two night alarms to wake up to resend shuttles, out of ~200 event days (that's 1%, just to help you with your math). But it's true that to do well in an event, you must be available for the event time. Isn't that... I mean... Doesn't that really go without saying? If you're not available for something, you can't do it yourself? And given that the two main aspects of Timelines gameplay are time management and resource management, isn't it also incredibly obvious that someone who is better at the gameplay will do better at the game? You're moving the goalposts there somewhat, but ironically, you're making a point against yourself: if people are going to miss events for RL reasons (not for a lack of boosters), then that means boosters are even more sustainable!
"that DB won’t release 5* crew that lure more people out of hiding from time to time"
I don't think I'm understanding this point correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying that there are people who aren't in the top 1000 now, but if a legendary character appears that they really want, they'll spend hundreds of dollars to immediately immortalize them... and then, suddenly, that one extra character will spontaneously make them so competitive that they overtake 500 people in the top 1000? And there are at least 500 of these people? Strange, though, how we're about to have an unbelievable, unprecedented, impossible influx of 500 super-accounts... and yet not one person ever stops playing Timelines once they've cracked the top 1000..?
"or make further adjustments to thresholds in an attempt to drive participation, competition, and spending"
Well that's just silly. That's such a nebulous non-statement that what can I possibly say? Sure, maybe every threshold VP will suddenly increase by 50% (your favorite! ) and only whales will have a chance. But that's not happened - you're just trying to muddy the waters instead of answering the questions. If the thresholds change, we can discuss those changes then, but until then you're just providing an appeal to ignorance.
"all you can do is complain about the number of additional competitors I pulled out of a hat."
Please don't lie about what I've said. That was point #4 of my last comment. It was the most humorous of your mistakes by far (I'm still grinning, thank you ), but I questioned you on four different mistakes you appeared to have made. Take a look here, if you're not lying intentionally and would like some proof (or, y'know, just scroll up, because you quoted me saying it!). One of my favorite Trek quotes is "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth. It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth... you don't deserve to wear that uniform."
Your terrifyingly-fallacious "points" and ignoring of what I've said in favor of what you wished I'd said mean that I'm finding this communication quite challenging. My friends and family are all well-educated, and like I said before, honesty is important in my culture. If you produce another response that lies about what I've said and is based on fantasy, I'm not going to waste my time - however, please don't take my lack of response to only be out of contempt, but also because I'm just not accustomed to talking with people like you.
Comments
This is exactly why I challenge everyone who said they’ve still done okay in the last couple Faction events on the sustainability of their approach. With careful timing and ad-doublers, you can get twelve 10x standard boost packs every Thursday. Depending on VIP level, you can get one or two more a month from daily rewards (there are the three or six ten-packs of the basic boosts with their 2.5% drop rate of 3* boosts that I will not count for simplicity’s sake). The last few events’ threshold rewards seem to have different numbers but 1-3 more 10x standard boosts are available during the event.
On average, let’s call it 13 10x standard boost packs per week. 3* boosts have a 90% chance to drop but there are eight different kinds to choose from; assuming they are weighted equally, that’s an overall chance of 11.25% per drop and roughly 15 3* time boosts per week. RNGesus may be with you and between the all sources (including 4*/5* time boost drops) you could be looking at 20 useful time boosts a week without spending dil on extra Thursday cadet tickets or buying boost packs. That’s one-third or one-quarter of what is necessary to guarantee competitiveness for top-1000 finishes every single week. My experience in Peldor Joi backs this up: I used about 100 3* boosts and a dozen-plus 4*/5* boosts to finish in 153rd place. I had 130 3* boosts to start with because I changed my Faction event strategy from using all the 3* boosts I had to using none or only using a few during the kickstart...months ago.
We can continue debating whether or not F2P/VIP0 players “deserve” to finish in the top 1000 in every single event or not, but let’s stop pretending that it is possible on a continuous, long-term basis.
Like Angry Birds....absolutely.
There aren't faction events every week. Between galaxy, skirmish, and arguably faction/galaxy hybrids(we'll see how this one plays out this week) you can have 3-4 weeks between pure faction events. That 15x3=45 to 20*4=80 speed boosts available for the faction event. We'll see what the steady state looks like as we have more of these, but 45 to 80 speed boosts should be enough to be under 1k.
153rd place is not 989th place but with the same 5* prize nevertheless. I used 40 3* Boosts to get the latter. More than I preferred but that's the only significant resource I used. That's a close shave and one that could've been fixed by using a little more but that's it.
This week we have a hybrid. I plan on using 8x 3* and 3x 0* Time Boosts. That's it. I'll make up the rest during the Galaxy portion. I'll be well stocked by the end of the month assuming I want to go hard during that event.
Paranoia at missing out due to a late rush kept pushing me. If 40-50 boosts can guarantee a finish in the top 1000, that’s still more than can be reasonably attained on a regular basis.
I would include the Faction/Galaxy hybrids as well as people can avoid draining their chroniton and item stockpiles. The volume will likely be lower, of course, but I wouldn’t discount them entirely.
Making people play more is not the same as trying to put players in a position where they will have to start spending money to achieve the same results they were previously able to achieve through gameplay alone. I don't think there's anyone who plays the game more consistently or with more thought, strategy, and effort than the F2P fleet, for example. Making changes that create a bigger imbalance between P2W and F2P (or even pays some [e.g., monthly card only] vs. pays a lot) does not encourage gameplay. It encourages spending in lieu of gameplay.
The sharp drop in price for a fourth shuttle accompanied by the ability to get enough dil to buy said shuttle almost immediately when the Achievements were introduced.
Honestly, I think the only reason they didn't intro a new permanent 5th shuttle at the time was because they didn't want to have to rethink any of the math for Faction events. The reason we have rent-a-shuttle now is Tilting Point has decided they're happy to have the money without a) giving players a persisting benefit and b) without rebalancing the event math beyond expanding the thresholds.
Having a few dozen 3+ time boosts requires ad-running 2x rewards for every cadet run on Thursdays, at the Elite level, and even then it has to be a few weeks between Faction events. The number I had to blow this last time and still not get top 1k was ludicrous; even the number needed just to get to the end of thresholds was rather high.
Just don't play to win every faction (or galaxy or skirmish for that matter). Be selective. It will do a lot to make sure you don't have a lot of useless 1/5s on your roster too.
I'm not in the F2P fleet because I did spend a drop of money at one point when it made a difference, but after playing since the start I'm VIP3. I've spent 0 the past year. My thought and gameplay is much more similar to the F2P fleet than anything else.
I ranked under 1k in both faction events and ranked 22 this past galaxy event. For players that play consistently with strategy, you can still perform well even after these changes.
That's not a game anymore.
I can accept these numbers. Two Faction / Faction/Hybrid events per month, a spend of 60 to get top 3xx in both, and an income of 60. (That's assuming you spend the full 30 during a hybrid - there's flexibility there to use fewer and knock out a few more Galaxy items instead.)
I think I see your problem. You're going for rank 153rd (?!?). Try going for rank 600-700 to get basically the same prizes. Or perhaps your shuttle management needs improvement. It's not simply a case of opening a mission and sending out whatever crew are at the top of the list. There are a few useful tactics that can increase shuttle effectiveness that might help you to get more VP using fewer time boosters.
But in my experience, and as your own numbers support, top 1000 is sustainable for free if you have a decent enough crew and understand the best ways to play.
The one where some folks feel entitled to win all of the time or the one where most of us have to play and a small few who help keep the lights on around here can pay to get the prize?
(which they can do anyway without competing, so they are not likely to be paying $50 to place top 1k)
I wasn’t planning on 153rd, I was highly concerned that being in the top 150 in Saturday then coasting to the finish without more time boosts would drop me out of the top 1000 entirely.
The problem with your math is if the idea of “use 30 time boosts per pure Faction or hybrid Faction event” catches on with more people who might be squatting on boosts until they find an event where they really want a particular crew, or for those who continue to add more bonus crew over time. More people competing for the same spots means you have to use more boosts to get ahead of the pack - it might only take 30 right now to guarantee a top-1000 finish but if even only another 500 people decide to be more competitive on a regular basis, it might take 45 3* boosts per event to ensure a top finish.
It’s not like we haven’t already seen VP creep over the last two years...it’s natural to see this behavior as people join the game and/or add to their crew rosters. Over time, that’s going to make it increasingly more difficult to compete for the same rank.
Thank you so much for this comment. It's rare for me to laugh out loud at even the intentionally-humorous comments here, but I'm a big fan of "idiot-comedy" (like Karl Pilkington), and your comment was absolutely wonderful.
I'll assume you were attempting to be serious, so let me try to explain your misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and wild fantasies.
First of all, your misquote of " “use 30 time boosts per pure Faction or hybrid Faction event” " - you're not quoting what I said, nor are you implying the correct meaning of what I wrote. I was explaining how 30 boosters per Faction / Faction/Hybrid is sustainable, not how it is necessary.
Your point of "for those who continue to add more bonus crew over time." suggests that we are not adding more bonus crew over time, despite regular top-1000 placements. I can't speak for everybody, of course, but when I place top 1000, I don't immediately flush all of my new crew out of the airlock. I also do things like Voyages and Gauntlet, both of which provide me with new crew. Do you airlock all your event crew, not run Voyages, and not play Gauntlet?
Skipping ahead to save the best for last, "It’s not like we haven’t already seen VP creep over the last two years...it’s natural to see this behavior as people join the game and/or add to their crew rosters." - are you saying that you're only getting the same VP that you were two years ago?! You keep seeming to forget that your account should be improving as well. Others are getting new crew - why aren't you? Others improve their ability to play Events and get new crew - why aren't you?
But the absolute star of your comment is "it might only take 30 right now to guarantee a top-1000 finish but if even only another 500 people decide to be more competitive on a regular basis, it might take 45 3* boosts per event to ensure a top finish."
If "even only another 500 people" decide to push into the top 1000, if "even only another 500 people" successfully manage to improve their shuttle VP to the extent that they all push into the top ~1% of the entire scoreboard, if "even only another 500 people" manage that... egads, that's a 50% increase in top 1000 competition!!!!
What do you think, that there's some secret group of 500 underdogs who have pledged to ignore the top 1000 and hoard all of their time boosters for the last six months, only to unleash them, all at the same time, with stunning coordination, in one particular event?
And these people were not in the top 1000 before, so they're exactly the "Little Guys" that were supposed to have been squeezed out by the recent changes - but now, all of a sudden, despite those changes, they're in the top 1000?!?
And not only that, but if there's a sudden increase of 50% in top 1000 competition, and if every single one of those people flies past me and my paltry 30 rare time boosters, then based on the numbers so far... I'd still be in the top 1000 anyway!
And even if we pretend that all of those problems with your comment don't exist; even if we pretend that it's entirely possible that there's a cult of 500 wait-for-2019-before-trying-for-top-1000ers out there... what does that have to do with the addition of the extra shuttles? If these 500 completely-real-and-not-at-all-hyperbolic people suddenly charge into the top 1000 next month, why is that any different to if they had done so last month?
30 rare time boosters for every single shuttle-related event seem sustainable (by your numbers and mine), but if you're a good player, you shouldn't need so many to get a top-1000 finish - and while you're not spending so many, you're naturally hoarding for the future. There's plenty of room for flexibility if you're any good at Timelines. You can strawman and hyperbolise all you want (in fact, please do - it's wonderful reading), but the problem your describing does not appear to have any basis in reality.
For me, the problem is still the rank rewards. 16th and 1000th place should not still be getting nearly-identical rewards.
Pot meet kettle.
The biggest predictor of success in a shuttle event (aside from boosts and a deep crew) is having the ability to play every three hours. This has nothing to do with being a good player.
For those of us who can't jump on every 3 hours, let alone every hour and a half, heavy use of boosts is the only way to have a hope of equalizing results. I don't have a problem in and of itself for players benefiting from the ability to play more than I do. I do have a problem with being forced to keep up with this artificial advantage in an unsustainable manner. It's poor design and a cynical attempt at monetization.
There’s no need to be intentionally obtuse. The claims you make apply to a very specific set of circumstances: you assume that there is zero growth in the number of people who are capable of and willing to compete for the top 1000 on a regular basis, that everyone can be online every 90-180 minutes to collect shuttles, and that DB won’t release 5* crew that lure more people out of hiding from time to time or make further adjustments to thresholds in an attempt to drive participation, competition, and spending. All of these claims have been readily falsifiable over the last few Faction events, and all you can do is complain about the number of additional competitors I pulled out of a hat.
All that being said, you are 1000% correct about the broken nature of ranked rewards. DB highly overvalues the trainers, merits, and even the single portal pulls, making only a handful of ranks really worthy of aiming for...even outside the top 1000. The difference between rank 3001 and rank 100,001 is three hundred honor (unless you’re new or have previously skipped that 3* due to slot limitations), seven purple trainers, and a single portal pull. With an active player base in the many tens of thousands, that’s pretty sad.
But you are all right that the rewards are laughable outside of a few points. The featured gold should be available to the top X% of players where X equals whatever the top 1000 was a year ago.
"you assume that there is zero growth in the number of people who are capable of and willing to compete for the top 1000 on a regular basis"
No, I didn't. Thankfully it's an easy lie to disprove, as I actually referenced the opposite in my comment, here (or just scroll up, as you even quoted me saying this), emphasis mine: "You keep seeming to forget that your account should be improving as well. Others are getting new crew - why aren't you? Others improve their ability to play Events and get new crew - why aren't you?"
My "assumption" is that people who play Timelines improve their accounts. A better account is likely to do better. I cannot believe this point has gone over your head twice.
"that everyone can be online every 90-180 minutes to collect shuttles"
No, I don't do that. I sleep fully during events, and don't even set day alarms. In 2018 I've set two night alarms to wake up to resend shuttles, out of ~200 event days (that's 1%, just to help you with your math). But it's true that to do well in an event, you must be available for the event time. Isn't that... I mean... Doesn't that really go without saying? If you're not available for something, you can't do it yourself? And given that the two main aspects of Timelines gameplay are time management and resource management, isn't it also incredibly obvious that someone who is better at the gameplay will do better at the game? You're moving the goalposts there somewhat, but ironically, you're making a point against yourself: if people are going to miss events for RL reasons (not for a lack of boosters), then that means boosters are even more sustainable!
"that DB won’t release 5* crew that lure more people out of hiding from time to time"
I don't think I'm understanding this point correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying that there are people who aren't in the top 1000 now, but if a legendary character appears that they really want, they'll spend hundreds of dollars to immediately immortalize them... and then, suddenly, that one extra character will spontaneously make them so competitive that they overtake 500 people in the top 1000? And there are at least 500 of these people? Strange, though, how we're about to have an unbelievable, unprecedented, impossible influx of 500 super-accounts... and yet not one person ever stops playing Timelines once they've cracked the top 1000..?
"or make further adjustments to thresholds in an attempt to drive participation, competition, and spending"
Well that's just silly. That's such a nebulous non-statement that what can I possibly say? Sure, maybe every threshold VP will suddenly increase by 50% (your favorite!
"all you can do is complain about the number of additional competitors I pulled out of a hat."
Please don't lie about what I've said. That was point #4 of my last comment. It was the most humorous of your mistakes by far (I'm still grinning, thank you
Your terrifyingly-fallacious "points" and ignoring of what I've said in favor of what you wished I'd said mean that I'm finding this communication quite challenging. My friends and family are all well-educated, and like I said before, honesty is important in my culture. If you produce another response that lies about what I've said and is based on fantasy, I'm not going to waste my time - however, please don't take my lack of response to only be out of contempt, but also because I'm just not accustomed to talking with people like you.