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Recent Gameplay Changes Squeezing Out The Little Guys?

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  • And here's another "constructive complaint." Instead of taking one step forward and two steps back, how about fixing the holoemitter requirements in the Starbase? Unless of course the Top Rankers are not affected by it. Which would again validate that the "little guys" gets the wrong end of the consolation.
  • Paladin 27Paladin 27 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And here's another "constructive complaint." Instead of taking one step forward and two steps back, how about fixing the holoemitter requirements in the Starbase? Unless of course the Top Rankers are not affected by it. Which would again validate that the "little guys" gets the wrong end of the consolation.

    For a lot of the fleets with people who strategize properly. Skirmishes did this with their effective discount of 50-60% on the cost of any items farmed during them.

    If you stockpile chrons and then farm items in skirmishes you’ll build up more ship battle parts than away mission parts.
  • {DD} Smelly{DD} Smelly ✭✭✭✭✭
    kapu wrote: »
    If macroing wasn't an issue before in faction events, it will be soon enough. By increasing the thresholds to 400k, DB has incentivized people to macro faction events in the name of a good night's sleep.
    when you get a bit older, you'll wake up twice a night anyways.... so umm.. yeah.

    Fair enough. But for those of us who don't wear diapers to bed, DB has incentivized us to macro faction events in the name of a good nigh't sleep.
  • HaBlackHaBlack ✭✭✭✭✭
    The primary appeal of this game for me has always been the care that DB took to maintain the balance between F2P and P2W. Whilst paying for bonuses and crew has always been an option - as it should be - the ability to purchase benefits has never ruled out the option of investing time and effort and still being competitive. I feel that this is no longer the case and my enjoyment has taken a precipitous dive as a result (I’m not sure how much disruption to life and sleep patterns the game designers think is acceptable when someone can simply outspend you at the last minute). I urge DB to restore this essential balance if it wants to keep players like me around.

    Actually after two years of playing, mostly as F2P, I never thought there was balance between F2P and P2W even though I am the real little guy here. That perception is purely subjective. But that doesn't mean that I have problem with P2P people here. It is them that keep this game going.

    Every single faction event was hell for me because if I want to be competitive with P2P I need to use all my resources, most important is time from real life. Skirmish, expedition or galaxy does not have so much effect on real life as I can play for 2 hours and stop for the rest of the day. Faction does not allow me that.

    This mean that game is equally difficult for me now as it was the first day I started playing.

    On the other hand if somebody is ready to invest more money and time in event than you have to have new and greater challenges for them, even though they are impossibility for someone like me. And that does NOT make me wanting to stop playing this game. It just mean I have to adapt and change strategies and carefully chose which event I'll be playing.

    So DB please just add more threshold rewards. An more challenges!!
    PlayingSince: 2016-09-16Can we get some more characters from TAS?We finally have Caitians in the game!Character wishlist:
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  • S31S31 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is funny how people think that they are getting less when DB gives additional threshold rewards... :D
  • V.V. ✭✭✭✭
    I've been done with shuttles for almost a year now. About 3 months ago there was one I wanted a lot so I used 100+ speed boosts to make the top 1000 - somewhere around 700. But lack of time, desire for sleep, 4x more competitive makes it impossible for me now to make top 1000 without using time boost every sendout. I also despise being put on the clock for 5 days.

    So now I just ignore shuttle events and hope that any characters I want come in galaxy (or expedition - haha.)
    Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, is all ancient history. Then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly, it threatens to start all over again."
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    S31 wrote: »
    It is funny how people think that they are getting less when DB gives additional threshold rewards... :D

    They do get less, if by using the same resources and investing the same amount of time as before, they can't get the rewards they used to get. This is not about threshold and out, it's about where you rank with increased competition. And it took me a lot less to rank in 1k a few months ago than it did in the last event.

    Apart from that, the majority of those who are somehow negatively affected by the recent changes are casual long-time players (like me) who are low to moderate spenders or f2p. There's probably no reason why DB should care, given that we aren't that many and that we don't spend that much. We just hang around in relatively high ranks by spending little or no money, which is probably discouraging for new players who are willing to pay more to be competitive.
    Even the various types of whales are probably lowering their expenses over time, since they don't get much for their money anymore, but take up ranks that some new players may want to pay an average monthly income for.

    So I don't think we can expect our complaints to produce any change. It's just a matter of deciding whether or not it's still worth playing this game when the returns in terms or fun and/or rewards get progressively lower. Or whether it's worth it to start spending (more) money (or time) on it now, to get the same results we used to get before.
    I may be wrong and they may soon change the ranked rewards and do other things aimed at keeping long-time players involved, but right now it doesn't look that way.

    I think this assessment is spot on. So to me DB are doing exactly the right thing for the game. Those who are effort or spending averse shouldn't be ranking in events. It's hurting newer, more enthusiastic players. I don't think they want anyone to leave the game necessarily, but there should definitely be a bit more merit in events.

    At the end of the day, external time commitments aside, you can save up speedups/extra shuttles etc and make a run every now and then no matter who you are. This system should see a much better spread of faction rewards instead of them all going to same old codgers every week.


  • I do not see why anyone would complain about more threshold rewards. I posted elsewhere on why it probably does not even make economic sense for DB to put the old legendary at 400k. If someone is willing to spend $25 anywhere it is more likely straight up for another * on a DYC than on shuttles and boosters chasing a first copy, but that is a minor quibble.

    I am more concerned in general with the concept of extra shuttle tokens and more things you can buy to improve faction event outcomes. I do not mind so much never winning to a cadre of people who diligently set alarms and plan ahead and such to beat me in faction because at least I have a chance as a more casual player. Nor do I mind basically sitting out galaxy events as the whales battle.

    But make no mistake, fringing more casual players by making it easier to buy success. I think in the long terms making it hard for casual players to score an occasional legendary is not in DB or TPs best interest. But there are lots of ways to address this:

    1. More earnable 10x portals.
    2. More beholds and among them slightly better begold odds.
    3. More skirmish events.
    4. More affordable pack offers (maybe a series of "classics" where you get a guaranteed old an now essentially useless card guaranteed in the pack and your normal RNG in the other 9 slots and you sell it at a discounted price like 10 for $7.50)

    I am sure there are more. The key is making sure your more casual players continue to feel they are progressing and continue to see new content as ultimately accessible so they do not get frustrated. The changes are fine so long as I can still get new stuff (to me) I will keep coming back.
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    It's become a make-or-break matter for the 900's-1000's, too. One can argue that this still comes down to who wants it more, and that may be a fair argument to make, but at least acknowledge that it has made it harder to want your way into the Top 1000.

    I don't mind the changes too much although that's two faction events that turned into white-knucklers for me. There are very few points that separate 500 and 1000. Clearing thresholds is no guarantee of victory either.

    The upside about some of the changes is that more thresholds is still better. There's been a few faction events where I fought for top 1K just for 550 honour. Now I can just turn in a strong showing and get more useful rewards. If I don't get top 1K, I'm mostly fine with that.

    Having said that I think DB should revisit the idea of % based placement instead of straight numerical placement. Two simultaneous events with different start/end times would also be an idea.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm late to the party, but wanted to say the following:

    I was strictly VIP 0 for my first full year as a player. I started before we had things like:

    Achievements
    Boosts
    Cryostasis Vault
    Events: Expedition, Galaxy, Skirmish
    Faction mission guaranteed drops even for failures
    Gauntlet
    Honor
    Replicator
    Supply Kits
    Voyages

    I made my peace with rank position being out of reach for me then, so I'm more or less okay with it being increasingly out of reach for me today even though I've spent a little bit of money over the last year+. As I've said all along, those top rank spots mean a lot more to the players who earn them than they mean to me.

    That said, I totally get feeling disappointed that the introduction of Shuttle Requisition Tokens and 2x Reward Boosts have made it considerably harder. I disagree strongly with the notion that this is only an issue for the Top 25. It's become a make-or-break matter for the 900's-1000's, too. One can argue that this still comes down to who wants it more, and that may be a fair argument to make, but at least acknowledge that it has made it harder to want your way into the Top 1000.

    No, I think the break point is closer to 700 or 750 to top 1000. Between these, ad doublers on Thursday, and 350/400k thresholds, the difference between 700 and 1500 is RNGeesus and one, maybe two, shuttle rolls.

    And that's the problem. You spend months or more cultivating crew, 2-4+ weeks stockpiling items, and you're still required to be slaved to a game for 100 hours, and missing just a few external timers by more than a few minutes each means you go from "Whoahoo I got a 1/5 slot waster" to "sonuva beach, I still get jack".
    All that work, and RNGeesus gives you the bird, pulling a Neslon and laughing in your face *HAHAH!*
    Once this happens one time too many, then why do you risk trying again?

    Fix the ranked thresholds, make it so a tiny RNGeesus hiccup doesn't donut hole you from behind, and you're problem is solved. And you have a lot more happy players willing to spend a bit for victory, and maybe spend again to DYC

    You know how you avoid RNGeesus? Don't try to scrape in. Always aim for top 500. This goes for people who are suffering from timezone problems too. You just have to speed more shuttles. I'm not saying it doesn't **tsk tsk** to have to do that because of where you live, it does. But the difference between success and failure is indeed small so just get more points. It's literally guaranteed points if you run more shuttles over the 4 days.
  • I readily grant that I was mistaken about where the breaking point was. I was only drawing on my Top 1000 finish experience in "Peldor Joi". I didn't get anywhere near that in "Children of Apollo 2". My overall point stands, though, that the effects are definitely noticeable and dramatic outside just the top 25.

    I also agree that at least having expanded threshold rewards helps offset the disappointment of not having a viable shot at a competitive rank finish. "One in the hand..." and all that.

    And I am wholeheartedly in favor of percentile-based rank rewards. I've been in that chorus since the old forum.
  • KatlaKatla ✭✭✭

    And I am wholeheartedly in favor of percentile-based rank rewards. I've been in that chorus since the old forum.

    This makes too much sense.
  • increased competition isn't necessarily a bad thing. there are two sides to every coin. those people who desired motivation to play harder, and get additional rewards as a result, are going to appreciate higher threshold rewards.

    As much as you might hate it, you're going to have to start picking your battles. Save your resources (boosts, tokens) and play hard in the events you like or the ones that give you characters you want. the game is evolving, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
  • 5000 Quatloos5000 Quatloos ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    i'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of the reduction in shuttle-acceleration costs, since if there's a P2W concern (at least for the rank 1000 breakpoint) this is a much faster route for "whalish" behavior (if defined as "don't put much effort in, then parachute in at the last minute to buy/secure a win"). Time boosters and reward doublers still require sustained effort and a solid bench throughout the event, but in principle someone could come in at the end and just buy a bunch of completed shuttles to break 1000. (Though if they wanted to do that, it'd probably be cheaper to just buy the $99 offer).

    On the flipside, knocking down that strawman, I tentatively (needs validation!) think there's not evidence that shuttle *acceleration* whales are tipping the game. If that were a systemic problem, we'd expect to see the rank-1000 VP-level growing by something like ~ +50,000-~60,000 in the last 3 hours (i.e., significantly more than expected from last waves of 4 shuttles x 4000 VP x 2 time doublers = 32,000, plus maybe an additional smidge of 4000-8000 from earned rent-a-shuttle tokens being saved for the end).

    (Don't get me wrong - I think cheaper shuttle acceleration is a good move if only for good-faith folks to mitigate "oh crud, I started my last wave at 9:03 instead of 8:59 because real life got in the way". And a P2W element could be buffered here by escalating acceleration costs after each one, or adding a cooldown timer).

    Did anybody happen to be able to track the rank 1000 VP level over time the morning of the last event?
    Accepted. Mark them, Galt.
  • What maybe DB should really hear from this is that it should address the giant cliff between 1000 and 1001 in ranked rewards. Get something meaningful into that next tier! Voyage tokens, legendary x2 tokens, shuttle tokens, something that makes a person who finishes just outside the top 1k and who already had the ranked rare and super rare FF/FE feel they got an actual consolation prize and not just the shaft.
  • We wouldn't necessarily be able to piece together how many players were in a given week's percentile unless we also had every player's results. Maybe the top 5% is 1000 players. Maybe it's 10. We only know they had a higher score than 95% of the rest of us.

  • An unrelated comment about the "ease" of being in the top 1000. It wasn't easy at all - because it required a huge investment in preparation. It took time and/or money to develop our crews to the point where sending 4 shuttles at >90% success was possible. That investment is what made top 1000 finishes easy/routine. Now, players can overcome their crew-development deficiencies with a gazillion speed boosts, rental tokens, 3hr-2x tokens, etc. Doesn't matter if they can only send out 65% shuttles - they'll just send 200 of them and swamp my 100 shuttles. What are skill boosts for anymore? Why bother selecting the 4 shuttles that fit my crew best and get maximum benefit from having repeated skills in multiple seats? Eff it. Just use more speed-boosts. No strategy. No optimization. Just blast 'em out. (Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but just bear with me.) Nearly 2 years ago, I was frustrated by my inability to succeed in faction events. I made it a point since then to develop my crew in a way that enabled me to succeed in them. That development isn't wasted, but it feels like it has been devalued. Just one month ago, I knew that being rank 500 with 18 hours to go meant that the 5* was guaranteed as long as I kept sending shuttles. Now, being rank 500 with 2 hours to go means nothing - I can still miss out on the 5*. That's not an improvement from my perspective. (Full disclosure - I did earn both versions of Spock, so my bitterness is not driven by missing either 5* card.)

    That's exactly why these changes feel so frustrating.

    I don't know if you were referring to my comment among the ones that mention the previous ease of a 1k rank. If yes, I didn't mean that it was easy to get to this point, but that objectively, from a money-making point of view, long-time players who already got there were worthless to DB with the old rewards system, if not an annoyance. So of all the complaints that people air on this forum, I can't imagine that they will listen to ours.

    Unlike you, it leaves me wondering if I should keep playing or not. Not because I'm angry, but because I don't want to invest more time or money than I used to and I don't want to end up playing a game that should be fun and a past-time activity as if it was a stressful chore or a boring routine. I will probably decide over the next couple of months, based on whether or not they will make any changes to the ranked rewards or add anything new that may actually be of interest for long-time players.
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