And here's another "constructive complaint." Instead of taking one step forward and two steps back, how about fixing the holoemitter requirements in the Starbase? Unless of course the Top Rankers are not affected by it. Which would again validate that the "little guys" gets the wrong end of the consolation.
And here's another "constructive complaint." Instead of taking one step forward and two steps back, how about fixing the holoemitter requirements in the Starbase? Unless of course the Top Rankers are not affected by it. Which would again validate that the "little guys" gets the wrong end of the consolation.
For a lot of the fleets with people who strategize properly. Skirmishes did this with their effective discount of 50-60% on the cost of any items farmed during them.
If you stockpile chrons and then farm items in skirmishes you’ll build up more ship battle parts than away mission parts.
The big issue here is the time zone problem.
I think now in all events the last hour matters.
So this issue is now forced upon DB to resolve or start losing world wide participation.
Participation started already declining the last event. While competition for the first 1,000 rank positions got harder, ending ranked the first 5,000 got easier.
I will point out, however, that I comfortably made the 400k VP threshold, and still fell outside of the top 1k.
That being written, I re-propose what I did in the other discussion: keep old legendaries at 150k threshold and make the new (momentarily rank-exclusive) obtainable at 500k.
Easiest solution for many problems. For older and newer players alike.
Of course, DB can transform Timelines into a millionaire's game. But I wonder for how long they keep playing, if the community of active players shrink toward 2,000. It's frustrating for these players investing a lot of money (and become VIP level 14), and the extended threshold table rewards the players in a manner many players find frustrating.
The older legendaries should motivate newer players. And a new legendary in the threshold table should motivate hard playing people to keep playing, when they missed the top 1,000 in spite of a fierce battle.
This generosity of motivation should also generate more double-your-crew-income for DB.
If macroing wasn't an issue before in faction events, it will be soon enough. By increasing the thresholds to 400k, DB has incentivized people to macro faction events in the name of a good night's sleep.
when you get a bit older, you'll wake up twice a night anyways.... so umm.. yeah.
Fair enough. But for those of us who don't wear diapers to bed, DB has incentivized us to macro faction events in the name of a good nigh't sleep.
I've seen so many posts and comments regarding f2p v p2p, and I don't disagree with the OPs concerns, or any of the other commentators or concerns either. I've been playing since April, 2016, almost the beginning. I too am just a monthly card spender, and once in a awhile, I'll splurge for something extra. I've watched this game grow and change, but never have had the feeling of being left behind by the whales/aggressive players. Sure, they are way "ahead" in terms of crew and resources, and I am never competitive in events, despite being lvl 60 (yet only VIP6).
But see, I just don't care about being competitive. I didn't start playing bc I wanted to compete. It was simply a fun diversion in a fantasy world I enjoy. Thankfully DB has never made me feel like I have to compete to enjoy the game. Do I have frustrations with some aspects of the game? Of course - I'm human.
To be honest, no one can "win" this game bc that is not the end goal of it. The purpose is to have fun and enjoy the ride. It's a cliche, but for me enjoying the journey (gameplay) is far more rewarding than any contrived competition. Since no one can win this game, the only real thing left is to just have fun.
For those of you who will respond with: "but I've put alot of money into this", etc, etc, etc. Well, maybe you also need a healthy change of perspective - on what matters and what doesn't. (Don't hate me, lol.)
The primary appeal of this game for me has always been the care that DB took to maintain the balance between F2P and P2W. Whilst paying for bonuses and crew has always been an option - as it should be - the ability to purchase benefits has never ruled out the option of investing time and effort and still being competitive. I feel that this is no longer the case and my enjoyment has taken a precipitous dive as a result (I’m not sure how much disruption to life and sleep patterns the game designers think is acceptable when someone can simply outspend you at the last minute). I urge DB to restore this essential balance if it wants to keep players like me around.
Actually after two years of playing, mostly as F2P, I never thought there was balance between F2P and P2W even though I am the real little guy here. That perception is purely subjective. But that doesn't mean that I have problem with P2P people here. It is them that keep this game going.
Every single faction event was hell for me because if I want to be competitive with P2P I need to use all my resources, most important is time from real life. Skirmish, expedition or galaxy does not have so much effect on real life as I can play for 2 hours and stop for the rest of the day. Faction does not allow me that.
This mean that game is equally difficult for me now as it was the first day I started playing.
On the other hand if somebody is ready to invest more money and time in event than you have to have new and greater challenges for them, even though they are impossibility for someone like me. And that does NOT make me wanting to stop playing this game. It just mean I have to adapt and change strategies and carefully chose which event I'll be playing.
So DB please just add more threshold rewards. An more challenges!!
A lot of folks I’ve spoken with are turned off by the latest threshold changes.
DB this is not what we’ve been asking for to promote more playing (and spending).
We’ve been asking for years for event rewards to be spread out proportionately over the rank tiers, to reflect a larger player base.
Making it harder to obtain higher ranks with the requirement for new types of boosts and shuttle rentals, coupled with huge increases to threshold reward requirements and the daft 5* reward is next week’s featured, is not fun for a lot of people, it just comes across as the money gouge that it is.
It’s kind of the opposite to what some of us hoped for.
Here’s hoping the balance sheets will show a reduced spend with the new rewards systems and that DB will adapt.
A lot of folks I’ve spoken with are turned off by the latest threshold changes.
DB this is not what we’ve been asking for to promote more playing (and spending).
We’ve been asking for years for event rewards to be spread out proportionately over the rank tiers, to reflect a larger player base.
Making it harder to obtain higher ranks with the requirement for new types of boosts and shuttle rentals, coupled with huge increases to threshold reward requirements and the daft 5* reward is next week’s featured, is not fun for a lot of people, it just comes across as the money gouge that it is.
It’s kind of the opposite to what some of us hoped for.
Here’s hoping the balance sheets will show a reduced spend with the new rewards systems and that DB will adapt.
100% this. People didn't want crazy high threshold rewards, this is not wrong but this was a thing to do after balancing the ranked rewards for the larger player base. DB(Tilting Point?) is playing a risky game now, in all these years there have been several problems but I have never seen such discouragement of players who have not received a single response in the forum about this and are losing the desire to play and simply quit. I see this here and I see this in the fleet, and it is frankly worrying. It's not a F2P/P2W war, this is a game and you can not expect one to check the smartphone every 90 minutes for 5 days or wake up during the night to play.
In the last event I bought only one bootser, used 18 3* clocks, 1 extra shuttle (but for fun, because it was at 60%), with 9 hour boosters over night. Played over 10 months, investing 100-150 euro, with monthly card and 10x10 boosters. I finish at 503 in this event (starting only with Layna from the event crew). What kind of whale am I?
I see no problem with extra threshold. The threshold and out it's a way of play, but if DB make it to 1.5 millions with one FF Legendary on top they don't force you to play until you finish the threshold.
You chose if you want to finish all events or just the important ones.
I have to reiterate some arguments made here already. DB are not giving less, they are giving more rewards. What has changed for some is the distribution of those rewards.
You can't just sit on your Laurels as a Timelines fat cat anymore. Even those of us with a solid investment in the game have to put in more effort now. This is true for Factions and Galaxies and one assumes for Skirmish too.
Personally, even as a fat cat myself, I think this is an improvement in the game. Hopefully the top 1000 places will go to those who really want it rather then just those (like me) who had the crew and so always made top 1k previously. Yes, this means that events will require more effort for everyone, but for the most part those who put in the most effort will reap the rewards and those that put in a lot, but not enough still benefit from the higher threshold rewards. This seems a much fairer system.
I think the trick will be NOT just expecting to get every faction reward, but choosing when to go all out to make sure you get top 1k. I've been doing this for a while now anyway because many crew lately have been -1 crew slot.
So yeah, big thumbs up from me on this change. Not so happy about the mega event legendary or the gamble box nature of the game, so it's not all daisies and roses over here. DB still have a lot of work to do to improve the game, but I like this specific change.
I've been playing since shortly after the game went live. Spend for monthly dil, here and there I'll buy an offer.
I haven't grown quickly, but I'm not small. I'd like to think I'm average for my time spent here. I play every event, check the game multiple times daily otherwise.
But I was doing much better nearer to when I started. Despite having much better crew (and more of them), more shuttles, etc., I just have to work that much harder to get even small rewards. Just this past weekend I went all in to get 1 star on my Kirk to finish him off. Used a backlog of boosts and extra shuttles and still missed breaking into the top 3000. That was dispiriting. I may not be stacked, but I've put enough time and money into this game that if I put in some effort it should bear even minor fruit.
As this game has grown, so have the number of players to compete with. And the price. It doesn't feel good to collect all this stuff, spend the time in-game and a few bucks here and there just to do worse in an event than I did in mid-2016.
I hate to add to the negativity, but those two Spock events had me in a worse spot than ever. I would have loved one (the last one especially) but pretty early on I realized I don't have the time to play all in. Time zones and all.
So the goal posts have shifted. On a good event (ie lots of bonus crew) I'll hit the portal pull. On a bad one, I'll get the voyage token. This is better than nothing, indeed it's great there's something to go for, but I have to say the legendary for me is now out of reach for most faction events.
The game has changed, and it will be interesting to see how the rewards for the other event types change them too.
It is funny how people think that they are getting less when DB gives additional threshold rewards...
They do get less, if by using the same resources and investing the same amount of time as before, they can't get the rewards they used to get. This is not about threshold and out, it's about where you rank with increased competition. And it took me a lot less to rank in 1k a few months ago than it did in the last event.
Apart from that, the majority of those who are somehow negatively affected by the recent changes are casual long-time players (like me) who are low to moderate spenders or f2p. There's probably no reason why DB should care, given that we aren't that many and that we don't spend that much. We just hang around in relatively high ranks by spending little or no money, which is probably discouraging for new players who are willing to pay more to be competitive.
Even the various types of whales are probably lowering their expenses over time, since they don't get much for their money anymore, but take up ranks that some new players may want to pay an average monthly income for.
So I don't think we can expect our complaints to produce any change. It's just a matter of deciding whether or not it's still worth playing this game when the returns in terms or fun and/or rewards get progressively lower. Or whether it's worth it to start spending (more) money (or time) on it now, to get the same results we used to get before.
I may be wrong and they may soon change the ranked rewards and do other things aimed at keeping long-time players involved, but right now it doesn't look that way.
I've been done with shuttles for almost a year now. About 3 months ago there was one I wanted a lot so I used 100+ speed boosts to make the top 1000 - somewhere around 700. But lack of time, desire for sleep, 4x more competitive makes it impossible for me now to make top 1000 without using time boost every sendout. I also despise being put on the clock for 5 days.
So now I just ignore shuttle events and hope that any characters I want come in galaxy (or expedition - haha.)
Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, is all ancient history. Then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly, it threatens to start all over again."
Having read through this thread and spent more time musing on the changes, I think what this positive change (ie: expanded threshold rewards) has done is shed more light on the need to also change the structure of ranked rewards, which the community has been suggesting for quite some time.
I think the first revamped faction event with Captain Spock was a bit of an anomaly, since it was the first 'new' faction event, featured a highly sought after new 5* character, and all players had just received a bunch of free new boosts and rental shuttle tokens.
Looking at this past faction event, playing like I have for the past nearly two years, I barely finished inside the top-1000. Comparatively, playing a faction event that well used to land me comfortably in the 400-700 range.
By adding to the threshold rewards, what DB has done is artificially inflate the amount of competition around the 1k level. Many people used to drop off once they hit thresholds, but now those same players are essentially competing hard for a top-1,000 finish just by attempting to clear thresholds. Based on some comments in a few other related threads, it appears as though there wasn't a huge range of points separating rank 500 from rank 1,500.
The increased amount of competition around the 1k rank, combined with the overall increase in number of players over the past 3 years, highlights the need to restructure the ranked reward tiers. Given the number of players, especially those that are now competitive around the 1k rank, I think it would be a great move for DB to have more than 1k people achieve the new 1/5* reward. Not only would it be a great move for building customer loyalty and creating goodwill, it might also lead to an increase in sales (ie: more players opting for DYC offers, etc...).
Personally, I'd like to see the structure based on % of the whole player base. As the number of players grows and surpasses certain milestones, all reward structure tiers would automatically be revised to reflect the growth. You'll get more players achieving certain reward tiers, but at a consistent % of the overall player base. More 'winners' and more happy players... and maybe even more spending for DB!
It is funny how people think that they are getting less when DB gives additional threshold rewards...
They do get less, if by using the same resources and investing the same amount of time as before, they can't get the rewards they used to get. This is not about threshold and out, it's about where you rank with increased competition. And it took me a lot less to rank in 1k a few months ago than it did in the last event.
Apart from that, the majority of those who are somehow negatively affected by the recent changes are casual long-time players (like me) who are low to moderate spenders or f2p. There's probably no reason why DB should care, given that we aren't that many and that we don't spend that much. We just hang around in relatively high ranks by spending little or no money, which is probably discouraging for new players who are willing to pay more to be competitive.
Even the various types of whales are probably lowering their expenses over time, since they don't get much for their money anymore, but take up ranks that some new players may want to pay an average monthly income for.
So I don't think we can expect our complaints to produce any change. It's just a matter of deciding whether or not it's still worth playing this game when the returns in terms or fun and/or rewards get progressively lower. Or whether it's worth it to start spending (more) money (or time) on it now, to get the same results we used to get before.
I may be wrong and they may soon change the ranked rewards and do other things aimed at keeping long-time players involved, but right now it doesn't look that way.
I think this assessment is spot on. So to me DB are doing exactly the right thing for the game. Those who are effort or spending averse shouldn't be ranking in events. It's hurting newer, more enthusiastic players. I don't think they want anyone to leave the game necessarily, but there should definitely be a bit more merit in events.
At the end of the day, external time commitments aside, you can save up speedups/extra shuttles etc and make a run every now and then no matter who you are. This system should see a much better spread of faction rewards instead of them all going to same old codgers every week.
I do not see why anyone would complain about more threshold rewards. I posted elsewhere on why it probably does not even make economic sense for DB to put the old legendary at 400k. If someone is willing to spend $25 anywhere it is more likely straight up for another * on a DYC than on shuttles and boosters chasing a first copy, but that is a minor quibble.
I am more concerned in general with the concept of extra shuttle tokens and more things you can buy to improve faction event outcomes. I do not mind so much never winning to a cadre of people who diligently set alarms and plan ahead and such to beat me in faction because at least I have a chance as a more casual player. Nor do I mind basically sitting out galaxy events as the whales battle.
But make no mistake, fringing more casual players by making it easier to buy success. I think in the long terms making it hard for casual players to score an occasional legendary is not in DB or TPs best interest. But there are lots of ways to address this:
1. More earnable 10x portals.
2. More beholds and among them slightly better begold odds.
3. More skirmish events.
4. More affordable pack offers (maybe a series of "classics" where you get a guaranteed old an now essentially useless card guaranteed in the pack and your normal RNG in the other 9 slots and you sell it at a discounted price like 10 for $7.50)
I am sure there are more. The key is making sure your more casual players continue to feel they are progressing and continue to see new content as ultimately accessible so they do not get frustrated. The changes are fine so long as I can still get new stuff (to me) I will keep coming back.
I made my peace with rank position being out of reach for me then, so I'm more or less okay with it being increasingly out of reach for me today even though I've spent a little bit of money over the last year+. As I've said all along, those top rank spots mean a lot more to the players who earn them than they mean to me.
That said, I totally get feeling disappointed that the introduction of Shuttle Requisition Tokens and 2x Reward Boosts have made it considerably harder. I disagree strongly with the notion that this is only an issue for the Top 25. It's become a make-or-break matter for the 900's-1000's, too. One can argue that this still comes down to who wants it more, and that may be a fair argument to make, but at least acknowledge that it has made it harder to want your way into the Top 1000.
It's become a make-or-break matter for the 900's-1000's, too. One can argue that this still comes down to who wants it more, and that may be a fair argument to make, but at least acknowledge that it has made it harder to want your way into the Top 1000.
I don't mind the changes too much although that's two faction events that turned into white-knucklers for me. There are very few points that separate 500 and 1000. Clearing thresholds is no guarantee of victory either.
The upside about some of the changes is that more thresholds is still better. There's been a few faction events where I fought for top 1K just for 550 honour. Now I can just turn in a strong showing and get more useful rewards. If I don't get top 1K, I'm mostly fine with that.
Having said that I think DB should revisit the idea of % based placement instead of straight numerical placement. Two simultaneous events with different start/end times would also be an idea.
I made my peace with rank position being out of reach for me then, so I'm more or less okay with it being increasingly out of reach for me today even though I've spent a little bit of money over the last year+. As I've said all along, those top rank spots mean a lot more to the players who earn them than they mean to me.
That said, I totally get feeling disappointed that the introduction of Shuttle Requisition Tokens and 2x Reward Boosts have made it considerably harder. I disagree strongly with the notion that this is only an issue for the Top 25. It's become a make-or-break matter for the 900's-1000's, too. One can argue that this still comes down to who wants it more, and that may be a fair argument to make, but at least acknowledge that it has made it harder to want your way into the Top 1000.
No, I think the break point is closer to 700 or 750 to top 1000. Between these, ad doublers on Thursday, and 350/400k thresholds, the difference between 700 and 1500 is RNGeesus and one, maybe two, shuttle rolls.
And that's the problem. You spend months or more cultivating crew, 2-4+ weeks stockpiling items, and you're still required to be slaved to a game for 100 hours, and missing just a few external timers by more than a few minutes each means you go from "Whoahoo I got a 1/5 slot waster" to "sonuva beach, I still get jack".
All that work, and RNGeesus gives you the bird, pulling a Neslon and laughing in your face *HAHAH!*
Once this happens one time too many, then why do you risk trying again?
Fix the ranked thresholds, make it so a tiny RNGeesus hiccup doesn't donut hole you from behind, and you're problem is solved. And you have a lot more happy players willing to spend a bit for victory, and maybe spend again to DYC
I made my peace with rank position being out of reach for me then, so I'm more or less okay with it being increasingly out of reach for me today even though I've spent a little bit of money over the last year+. As I've said all along, those top rank spots mean a lot more to the players who earn them than they mean to me.
That said, I totally get feeling disappointed that the introduction of Shuttle Requisition Tokens and 2x Reward Boosts have made it considerably harder. I disagree strongly with the notion that this is only an issue for the Top 25. It's become a make-or-break matter for the 900's-1000's, too. One can argue that this still comes down to who wants it more, and that may be a fair argument to make, but at least acknowledge that it has made it harder to want your way into the Top 1000.
No, I think the break point is closer to 700 or 750 to top 1000. Between these, ad doublers on Thursday, and 350/400k thresholds, the difference between 700 and 1500 is RNGeesus and one, maybe two, shuttle rolls.
And that's the problem. You spend months or more cultivating crew, 2-4+ weeks stockpiling items, and you're still required to be slaved to a game for 100 hours, and missing just a few external timers by more than a few minutes each means you go from "Whoahoo I got a 1/5 slot waster" to "sonuva beach, I still get jack".
All that work, and RNGeesus gives you the bird, pulling a Neslon and laughing in your face *HAHAH!*
Once this happens one time too many, then why do you risk trying again?
Fix the ranked thresholds, make it so a tiny RNGeesus hiccup doesn't donut hole you from behind, and you're problem is solved. And you have a lot more happy players willing to spend a bit for victory, and maybe spend again to DYC
You know how you avoid RNGeesus? Don't try to scrape in. Always aim for top 500. This goes for people who are suffering from timezone problems too. You just have to speed more shuttles. I'm not saying it doesn't **tsk tsk** to have to do that because of where you live, it does. But the difference between success and failure is indeed small so just get more points. It's literally guaranteed points if you run more shuttles over the 4 days.
I readily grant that I was mistaken about where the breaking point was. I was only drawing on my Top 1000 finish experience in "Peldor Joi". I didn't get anywhere near that in "Children of Apollo 2". My overall point stands, though, that the effects are definitely noticeable and dramatic outside just the top 25.
I also agree that at least having expanded threshold rewards helps offset the disappointment of not having a viable shot at a competitive rank finish. "One in the hand..." and all that.
And I am wholeheartedly in favor of percentile-based rank rewards. I've been in that chorus since the old forum.
increased competition isn't necessarily a bad thing. there are two sides to every coin. those people who desired motivation to play harder, and get additional rewards as a result, are going to appreciate higher threshold rewards.
As much as you might hate it, you're going to have to start picking your battles. Save your resources (boosts, tokens) and play hard in the events you like or the ones that give you characters you want. the game is evolving, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
i'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of the reduction in shuttle-acceleration costs, since if there's a P2W concern (at least for the rank 1000 breakpoint) this is a much faster route for "whalish" behavior (if defined as "don't put much effort in, then parachute in at the last minute to buy/secure a win"). Time boosters and reward doublers still require sustained effort and a solid bench throughout the event, but in principle someone could come in at the end and just buy a bunch of completed shuttles to break 1000. (Though if they wanted to do that, it'd probably be cheaper to just buy the $99 offer).
On the flipside, knocking down that strawman, I tentatively (needs validation!) think there's not evidence that shuttle *acceleration* whales are tipping the game. If that were a systemic problem, we'd expect to see the rank-1000 VP-level growing by something like ~ +50,000-~60,000 in the last 3 hours (i.e., significantly more than expected from last waves of 4 shuttles x 4000 VP x 2 time doublers = 32,000, plus maybe an additional smidge of 4000-8000 from earned rent-a-shuttle tokens being saved for the end).
(Don't get me wrong - I think cheaper shuttle acceleration is a good move if only for good-faith folks to mitigate "oh crud, I started my last wave at 9:03 instead of 8:59 because real life got in the way". And a P2W element could be buffered here by escalating acceleration costs after each one, or adding a cooldown timer).
Did anybody happen to be able to track the rank 1000 VP level over time the morning of the last event?
Personally, I'd like to see the structure based on % of the whole player base. As the number of players grows and surpasses certain milestones, all reward structure tiers would automatically be revised to reflect the growth.
(Apologies for the length of this post. Started typing and the words just kept flowing. If you bother to read it all - gold star for you. No, not a STT gold star, just a cheap sticky star.)
Given the growth of the playerbase since game inception, and the growth of the capabilities of non-whale players simply via time (slow accumulation of the cards and resources that whales buy immediately) - yes, the reward structure should change to reflect these shifts. But...
In my opinion, It should NOT be percentage based, but some new arbitrary number. Why? Because a) a %-based system would pave the way for each event having different cut-off levels that vary each week depending on how many people play -- i.e., chaos! -- and b) it would provide a week-by-week real-time insight into how many players are actually playing the game. The first issue would just add stress to the players, but the second issue is a business metric that DB/TP would not want to publicize in a clear manner (nor should they). We already have lots of speculation on this forum about the number of players in the game and whether the influx vs efflux is positive, negative, or balanced. Could you imagine the sky-is-falling posts that would happen if the rank tier data suggested fewer participating players in 2 consecutive weeks, even though such an effect could be influenced by a dozen different variables? No thanks.
An unrelated comment about the "ease" of being in the top 1000. It wasn't easy at all - because it required a huge investment in preparation. It took time and/or money to develop our crews to the point where sending 4 shuttles at >90% success was possible. That investment is what made top 1000 finishes easy/routine. Now, players can overcome their crew-development deficiencies with a gazillion speed boosts, rental tokens, 3hr-2x tokens, etc. Doesn't matter if they can only send out 65% shuttles - they'll just send 200 of them and swamp my 100 shuttles. What are skill boosts for anymore? Why bother selecting the 4 shuttles that fit my crew best and get maximum benefit from having repeated skills in multiple seats? Eff it. Just use more speed-boosts. No strategy. No optimization. Just blast 'em out. (Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but just bear with me.) Nearly 2 years ago, I was frustrated by my inability to succeed in faction events. I made it a point since then to develop my crew in a way that enabled me to succeed in them. That development isn't wasted, but it feels like it has been devalued. Just one month ago, I knew that being rank 500 with 18 hours to go meant that the 5* was guaranteed as long as I kept sending shuttles. Now, being rank 500 with 2 hours to go means nothing - I can still miss out on the 5*. That's not an improvement from my perspective. (Full disclosure - I did earn both versions of Spock, so my bitterness is not driven by missing either 5* card.)
I still enjoy the game. This isn't one of those I'm-outta-here posts. I'm just not a fan of the current trend. I suppose I'll keep finding joy in voyages, skirmishes, gauntlet (yeah, I said it), and galaxies (yeah, I said that too). After all, these things also benefit from my multi-year crew development efforts. And of course, the fun of interacting with my fleetmates and my fellow forum-posters. Cheers!
What maybe DB should really hear from this is that it should address the giant cliff between 1000 and 1001 in ranked rewards. Get something meaningful into that next tier! Voyage tokens, legendary x2 tokens, shuttle tokens, something that makes a person who finishes just outside the top 1k and who already had the ranked rare and super rare FF/FE feel they got an actual consolation prize and not just the shaft.
We wouldn't necessarily be able to piece together how many players were in a given week's percentile unless we also had every player's results. Maybe the top 5% is 1000 players. Maybe it's 10. We only know they had a higher score than 95% of the rest of us.
An unrelated comment about the "ease" of being in the top 1000. It wasn't easy at all - because it required a huge investment in preparation. It took time and/or money to develop our crews to the point where sending 4 shuttles at >90% success was possible. That investment is what made top 1000 finishes easy/routine. Now, players can overcome their crew-development deficiencies with a gazillion speed boosts, rental tokens, 3hr-2x tokens, etc. Doesn't matter if they can only send out 65% shuttles - they'll just send 200 of them and swamp my 100 shuttles. What are skill boosts for anymore? Why bother selecting the 4 shuttles that fit my crew best and get maximum benefit from having repeated skills in multiple seats? Eff it. Just use more speed-boosts. No strategy. No optimization. Just blast 'em out. (Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but just bear with me.) Nearly 2 years ago, I was frustrated by my inability to succeed in faction events. I made it a point since then to develop my crew in a way that enabled me to succeed in them. That development isn't wasted, but it feels like it has been devalued. Just one month ago, I knew that being rank 500 with 18 hours to go meant that the 5* was guaranteed as long as I kept sending shuttles. Now, being rank 500 with 2 hours to go means nothing - I can still miss out on the 5*. That's not an improvement from my perspective. (Full disclosure - I did earn both versions of Spock, so my bitterness is not driven by missing either 5* card.)
That's exactly why these changes feel so frustrating.
I don't know if you were referring to my comment among the ones that mention the previous ease of a 1k rank. If yes, I didn't mean that it was easy to get to this point, but that objectively, from a money-making point of view, long-time players who already got there were worthless to DB with the old rewards system, if not an annoyance. So of all the complaints that people air on this forum, I can't imagine that they will listen to ours.
Unlike you, it leaves me wondering if I should keep playing or not. Not because I'm angry, but because I don't want to invest more time or money than I used to and I don't want to end up playing a game that should be fun and a past-time activity as if it was a stressful chore or a boring routine. I will probably decide over the next couple of months, based on whether or not they will make any changes to the ranked rewards or add anything new that may actually be of interest for long-time players.
Comments
For a lot of the fleets with people who strategize properly. Skirmishes did this with their effective discount of 50-60% on the cost of any items farmed during them.
If you stockpile chrons and then farm items in skirmishes you’ll build up more ship battle parts than away mission parts.
Easiest solution for many problems. For older and newer players alike.
Of course, DB can transform Timelines into a millionaire's game. But I wonder for how long they keep playing, if the community of active players shrink toward 2,000. It's frustrating for these players investing a lot of money (and become VIP level 14), and the extended threshold table rewards the players in a manner many players find frustrating.
The older legendaries should motivate newer players. And a new legendary in the threshold table should motivate hard playing people to keep playing, when they missed the top 1,000 in spite of a fierce battle.
This generosity of motivation should also generate more double-your-crew-income for DB.
My humble opinion.
Fair enough. But for those of us who don't wear diapers to bed, DB has incentivized us to macro faction events in the name of a good nigh't sleep.
But see, I just don't care about being competitive. I didn't start playing bc I wanted to compete. It was simply a fun diversion in a fantasy world I enjoy. Thankfully DB has never made me feel like I have to compete to enjoy the game. Do I have frustrations with some aspects of the game? Of course - I'm human.
To be honest, no one can "win" this game bc that is not the end goal of it. The purpose is to have fun and enjoy the ride. It's a cliche, but for me enjoying the journey (gameplay) is far more rewarding than any contrived competition. Since no one can win this game, the only real thing left is to just have fun.
For those of you who will respond with: "but I've put alot of money into this", etc, etc, etc. Well, maybe you also need a healthy change of perspective - on what matters and what doesn't. (Don't hate me, lol.)
Maybe that's what the OP needs to remember?
Just a thought.
LLAP and MTFBWY
Actually after two years of playing, mostly as F2P, I never thought there was balance between F2P and P2W even though I am the real little guy here. That perception is purely subjective. But that doesn't mean that I have problem with P2P people here. It is them that keep this game going.
Every single faction event was hell for me because if I want to be competitive with P2P I need to use all my resources, most important is time from real life. Skirmish, expedition or galaxy does not have so much effect on real life as I can play for 2 hours and stop for the rest of the day. Faction does not allow me that.
This mean that game is equally difficult for me now as it was the first day I started playing.
On the other hand if somebody is ready to invest more money and time in event than you have to have new and greater challenges for them, even though they are impossibility for someone like me. And that does NOT make me wanting to stop playing this game. It just mean I have to adapt and change strategies and carefully chose which event I'll be playing.
So DB please just add more threshold rewards. An more challenges!!
DB this is not what we’ve been asking for to promote more playing (and spending).
We’ve been asking for years for event rewards to be spread out proportionately over the rank tiers, to reflect a larger player base.
Making it harder to obtain higher ranks with the requirement for new types of boosts and shuttle rentals, coupled with huge increases to threshold reward requirements and the daft 5* reward is next week’s featured, is not fun for a lot of people, it just comes across as the money gouge that it is.
It’s kind of the opposite to what some of us hoped for.
Here’s hoping the balance sheets will show a reduced spend with the new rewards systems and that DB will adapt.
100% this. People didn't want crazy high threshold rewards, this is not wrong but this was a thing to do after balancing the ranked rewards for the larger player base. DB(Tilting Point?) is playing a risky game now, in all these years there have been several problems but I have never seen such discouragement of players who have not received a single response in the forum about this and are losing the desire to play and simply quit. I see this here and I see this in the fleet, and it is frankly worrying. It's not a F2P/P2W war, this is a game and you can not expect one to check the smartphone every 90 minutes for 5 days or wake up during the night to play.
I see no problem with extra threshold. The threshold and out it's a way of play, but if DB make it to 1.5 millions with one FF Legendary on top they don't force you to play until you finish the threshold.
You chose if you want to finish all events or just the important ones.
You can't just sit on your Laurels as a Timelines fat cat anymore. Even those of us with a solid investment in the game have to put in more effort now. This is true for Factions and Galaxies and one assumes for Skirmish too.
Personally, even as a fat cat myself, I think this is an improvement in the game. Hopefully the top 1000 places will go to those who really want it rather then just those (like me) who had the crew and so always made top 1k previously. Yes, this means that events will require more effort for everyone, but for the most part those who put in the most effort will reap the rewards and those that put in a lot, but not enough still benefit from the higher threshold rewards. This seems a much fairer system.
I think the trick will be NOT just expecting to get every faction reward, but choosing when to go all out to make sure you get top 1k. I've been doing this for a while now anyway because many crew lately have been -1 crew slot.
So yeah, big thumbs up from me on this change. Not so happy about the mega event legendary or the gamble box nature of the game, so it's not all daisies and roses over here. DB still have a lot of work to do to improve the game, but I like this specific change.
I've been playing since shortly after the game went live. Spend for monthly dil, here and there I'll buy an offer.
I haven't grown quickly, but I'm not small. I'd like to think I'm average for my time spent here. I play every event, check the game multiple times daily otherwise.
But I was doing much better nearer to when I started. Despite having much better crew (and more of them), more shuttles, etc., I just have to work that much harder to get even small rewards. Just this past weekend I went all in to get 1 star on my Kirk to finish him off. Used a backlog of boosts and extra shuttles and still missed breaking into the top 3000. That was dispiriting. I may not be stacked, but I've put enough time and money into this game that if I put in some effort it should bear even minor fruit.
As this game has grown, so have the number of players to compete with. And the price. It doesn't feel good to collect all this stuff, spend the time in-game and a few bucks here and there just to do worse in an event than I did in mid-2016.
So the goal posts have shifted. On a good event (ie lots of bonus crew) I'll hit the portal pull. On a bad one, I'll get the voyage token. This is better than nothing, indeed it's great there's something to go for, but I have to say the legendary for me is now out of reach for most faction events.
The game has changed, and it will be interesting to see how the rewards for the other event types change them too.
Check out our website to find out more:
https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
They do get less, if by using the same resources and investing the same amount of time as before, they can't get the rewards they used to get. This is not about threshold and out, it's about where you rank with increased competition. And it took me a lot less to rank in 1k a few months ago than it did in the last event.
Apart from that, the majority of those who are somehow negatively affected by the recent changes are casual long-time players (like me) who are low to moderate spenders or f2p. There's probably no reason why DB should care, given that we aren't that many and that we don't spend that much. We just hang around in relatively high ranks by spending little or no money, which is probably discouraging for new players who are willing to pay more to be competitive.
Even the various types of whales are probably lowering their expenses over time, since they don't get much for their money anymore, but take up ranks that some new players may want to pay an average monthly income for.
So I don't think we can expect our complaints to produce any change. It's just a matter of deciding whether or not it's still worth playing this game when the returns in terms or fun and/or rewards get progressively lower. Or whether it's worth it to start spending (more) money (or time) on it now, to get the same results we used to get before.
I may be wrong and they may soon change the ranked rewards and do other things aimed at keeping long-time players involved, but right now it doesn't look that way.
So now I just ignore shuttle events and hope that any characters I want come in galaxy (or expedition - haha.)
I think the first revamped faction event with Captain Spock was a bit of an anomaly, since it was the first 'new' faction event, featured a highly sought after new 5* character, and all players had just received a bunch of free new boosts and rental shuttle tokens.
Looking at this past faction event, playing like I have for the past nearly two years, I barely finished inside the top-1000. Comparatively, playing a faction event that well used to land me comfortably in the 400-700 range.
By adding to the threshold rewards, what DB has done is artificially inflate the amount of competition around the 1k level. Many people used to drop off once they hit thresholds, but now those same players are essentially competing hard for a top-1,000 finish just by attempting to clear thresholds. Based on some comments in a few other related threads, it appears as though there wasn't a huge range of points separating rank 500 from rank 1,500.
The increased amount of competition around the 1k rank, combined with the overall increase in number of players over the past 3 years, highlights the need to restructure the ranked reward tiers. Given the number of players, especially those that are now competitive around the 1k rank, I think it would be a great move for DB to have more than 1k people achieve the new 1/5* reward. Not only would it be a great move for building customer loyalty and creating goodwill, it might also lead to an increase in sales (ie: more players opting for DYC offers, etc...).
Personally, I'd like to see the structure based on % of the whole player base. As the number of players grows and surpasses certain milestones, all reward structure tiers would automatically be revised to reflect the growth. You'll get more players achieving certain reward tiers, but at a consistent % of the overall player base. More 'winners' and more happy players... and maybe even more spending for DB!
I think this assessment is spot on. So to me DB are doing exactly the right thing for the game. Those who are effort or spending averse shouldn't be ranking in events. It's hurting newer, more enthusiastic players. I don't think they want anyone to leave the game necessarily, but there should definitely be a bit more merit in events.
At the end of the day, external time commitments aside, you can save up speedups/extra shuttles etc and make a run every now and then no matter who you are. This system should see a much better spread of faction rewards instead of them all going to same old codgers every week.
I am more concerned in general with the concept of extra shuttle tokens and more things you can buy to improve faction event outcomes. I do not mind so much never winning to a cadre of people who diligently set alarms and plan ahead and such to beat me in faction because at least I have a chance as a more casual player. Nor do I mind basically sitting out galaxy events as the whales battle.
But make no mistake, fringing more casual players by making it easier to buy success. I think in the long terms making it hard for casual players to score an occasional legendary is not in DB or TPs best interest. But there are lots of ways to address this:
1. More earnable 10x portals.
2. More beholds and among them slightly better begold odds.
3. More skirmish events.
4. More affordable pack offers (maybe a series of "classics" where you get a guaranteed old an now essentially useless card guaranteed in the pack and your normal RNG in the other 9 slots and you sell it at a discounted price like 10 for $7.50)
I am sure there are more. The key is making sure your more casual players continue to feel they are progressing and continue to see new content as ultimately accessible so they do not get frustrated. The changes are fine so long as I can still get new stuff (to me) I will keep coming back.
I was strictly VIP 0 for my first full year as a player. I started before we had things like:
Achievements
Boosts
Cryostasis Vault
Events: Expedition, Galaxy, Skirmish
Faction mission guaranteed drops even for failures
Gauntlet
Honor
Replicator
Supply Kits
Voyages
I made my peace with rank position being out of reach for me then, so I'm more or less okay with it being increasingly out of reach for me today even though I've spent a little bit of money over the last year+. As I've said all along, those top rank spots mean a lot more to the players who earn them than they mean to me.
That said, I totally get feeling disappointed that the introduction of Shuttle Requisition Tokens and 2x Reward Boosts have made it considerably harder. I disagree strongly with the notion that this is only an issue for the Top 25. It's become a make-or-break matter for the 900's-1000's, too. One can argue that this still comes down to who wants it more, and that may be a fair argument to make, but at least acknowledge that it has made it harder to want your way into the Top 1000.
I don't mind the changes too much although that's two faction events that turned into white-knucklers for me. There are very few points that separate 500 and 1000. Clearing thresholds is no guarantee of victory either.
The upside about some of the changes is that more thresholds is still better. There's been a few faction events where I fought for top 1K just for 550 honour. Now I can just turn in a strong showing and get more useful rewards. If I don't get top 1K, I'm mostly fine with that.
Having said that I think DB should revisit the idea of % based placement instead of straight numerical placement. Two simultaneous events with different start/end times would also be an idea.
No, I think the break point is closer to 700 or 750 to top 1000. Between these, ad doublers on Thursday, and 350/400k thresholds, the difference between 700 and 1500 is RNGeesus and one, maybe two, shuttle rolls.
And that's the problem. You spend months or more cultivating crew, 2-4+ weeks stockpiling items, and you're still required to be slaved to a game for 100 hours, and missing just a few external timers by more than a few minutes each means you go from "Whoahoo I got a 1/5 slot waster" to "sonuva beach, I still get jack".
All that work, and RNGeesus gives you the bird, pulling a Neslon and laughing in your face *HAHAH!*
Once this happens one time too many, then why do you risk trying again?
Fix the ranked thresholds, make it so a tiny RNGeesus hiccup doesn't donut hole you from behind, and you're problem is solved. And you have a lot more happy players willing to spend a bit for victory, and maybe spend again to DYC
You know how you avoid RNGeesus? Don't try to scrape in. Always aim for top 500. This goes for people who are suffering from timezone problems too. You just have to speed more shuttles. I'm not saying it doesn't **tsk tsk** to have to do that because of where you live, it does. But the difference between success and failure is indeed small so just get more points. It's literally guaranteed points if you run more shuttles over the 4 days.
I also agree that at least having expanded threshold rewards helps offset the disappointment of not having a viable shot at a competitive rank finish. "One in the hand..." and all that.
And I am wholeheartedly in favor of percentile-based rank rewards. I've been in that chorus since the old forum.
This makes too much sense.
As much as you might hate it, you're going to have to start picking your battles. Save your resources (boosts, tokens) and play hard in the events you like or the ones that give you characters you want. the game is evolving, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
On the flipside, knocking down that strawman, I tentatively (needs validation!) think there's not evidence that shuttle *acceleration* whales are tipping the game. If that were a systemic problem, we'd expect to see the rank-1000 VP-level growing by something like ~ +50,000-~60,000 in the last 3 hours (i.e., significantly more than expected from last waves of 4 shuttles x 4000 VP x 2 time doublers = 32,000, plus maybe an additional smidge of 4000-8000 from earned rent-a-shuttle tokens being saved for the end).
(Don't get me wrong - I think cheaper shuttle acceleration is a good move if only for good-faith folks to mitigate "oh crud, I started my last wave at 9:03 instead of 8:59 because real life got in the way". And a P2W element could be buffered here by escalating acceleration costs after each one, or adding a cooldown timer).
Did anybody happen to be able to track the rank 1000 VP level over time the morning of the last event?
(Apologies for the length of this post. Started typing and the words just kept flowing. If you bother to read it all - gold star for you. No, not a STT gold star, just a cheap sticky star.)
Given the growth of the playerbase since game inception, and the growth of the capabilities of non-whale players simply via time (slow accumulation of the cards and resources that whales buy immediately) - yes, the reward structure should change to reflect these shifts. But...
In my opinion, It should NOT be percentage based, but some new arbitrary number. Why? Because a) a %-based system would pave the way for each event having different cut-off levels that vary each week depending on how many people play -- i.e., chaos! -- and b) it would provide a week-by-week real-time insight into how many players are actually playing the game. The first issue would just add stress to the players, but the second issue is a business metric that DB/TP would not want to publicize in a clear manner (nor should they). We already have lots of speculation on this forum about the number of players in the game and whether the influx vs efflux is positive, negative, or balanced. Could you imagine the sky-is-falling posts that would happen if the rank tier data suggested fewer participating players in 2 consecutive weeks, even though such an effect could be influenced by a dozen different variables? No thanks.
An unrelated comment about the "ease" of being in the top 1000. It wasn't easy at all - because it required a huge investment in preparation. It took time and/or money to develop our crews to the point where sending 4 shuttles at >90% success was possible. That investment is what made top 1000 finishes easy/routine. Now, players can overcome their crew-development deficiencies with a gazillion speed boosts, rental tokens, 3hr-2x tokens, etc. Doesn't matter if they can only send out 65% shuttles - they'll just send 200 of them and swamp my 100 shuttles. What are skill boosts for anymore? Why bother selecting the 4 shuttles that fit my crew best and get maximum benefit from having repeated skills in multiple seats? Eff it. Just use more speed-boosts. No strategy. No optimization. Just blast 'em out. (Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but just bear with me.) Nearly 2 years ago, I was frustrated by my inability to succeed in faction events. I made it a point since then to develop my crew in a way that enabled me to succeed in them. That development isn't wasted, but it feels like it has been devalued. Just one month ago, I knew that being rank 500 with 18 hours to go meant that the 5* was guaranteed as long as I kept sending shuttles. Now, being rank 500 with 2 hours to go means nothing - I can still miss out on the 5*. That's not an improvement from my perspective. (Full disclosure - I did earn both versions of Spock, so my bitterness is not driven by missing either 5* card.)
I still enjoy the game. This isn't one of those I'm-outta-here posts. I'm just not a fan of the current trend. I suppose I'll keep finding joy in voyages, skirmishes, gauntlet (yeah, I said it), and galaxies (yeah, I said that too). After all, these things also benefit from my multi-year crew development efforts. And of course, the fun of interacting with my fleetmates and my fellow forum-posters. Cheers!
That's exactly why these changes feel so frustrating.
I don't know if you were referring to my comment among the ones that mention the previous ease of a 1k rank. If yes, I didn't mean that it was easy to get to this point, but that objectively, from a money-making point of view, long-time players who already got there were worthless to DB with the old rewards system, if not an annoyance. So of all the complaints that people air on this forum, I can't imagine that they will listen to ours.
Unlike you, it leaves me wondering if I should keep playing or not. Not because I'm angry, but because I don't want to invest more time or money than I used to and I don't want to end up playing a game that should be fun and a past-time activity as if it was a stressful chore or a boring routine. I will probably decide over the next couple of months, based on whether or not they will make any changes to the ranked rewards or add anything new that may actually be of interest for long-time players.