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I take issue with Crell Moset being in the "Evil Holograms" pack

YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 2019 in The Bridge
The Crell hologram was very much NOT evil where the real Crell "was"
Take this to hologram Sisko and hologram Janeway who were decent people but their holograms in this pack are in fact evil. This shows that the pack is designed keeping the real person out of mind and just labelling the holograms straight evil....

Crell hologram deserves better

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    IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    It’s actually debatable whether the tng moriarty was evil or not as well.
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    YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ironagedave wrote: »
    It’s actually debatable whether the tng moriarty was evil or not as well.

    In Elementary, Dear Data I figure he probably still was, in Ship in a Bottle he just wanted to live and was acting out of self preservation so yah I see your point there
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    Torias327Torias327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    V. wrote: »
    hmm even by the end of Dear Data he stated that he was no longer that character and had no interest in doing evil, and it seemed believable as he left his fate to Picard.

    I think Moset is evil. He is happy to kill the alien parasite when the operation could be done without killing it. He also states that the ends justify the means with regard to what the real version of himself did on Bajor.

    Agreed 100%, you saved me typing it. Thank you :)
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    Bluebeard1Bluebeard1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All holograms are evil, I thought we all knew that.
    c7rdwz7g0res.jpg
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    Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Was Hologram Moset actually self-aware? Or was he simply programmed to use what the system knew about Moset when the hologram's behavior? I don't remember the episode that well and I didn't like it enough to re-watch it just to be up to date for this thread.
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    YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    Travis S McClain wrote: »
    Was Hologram Moset actually self-aware? Or was he simply programmed to use what the system knew about Moset when the hologram's behavior? I don't remember the episode that well and I didn't like it enough to re-watch it just to be up to date for this thread.

    I believe I remember him being pretty shocked when the bajoran accused him of the crimes... I haven't seen it in awhile either but I think he was unaware what he was made to represent
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    Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yateball wrote: »
    Travis S McClain wrote: »
    Was Hologram Moset actually self-aware? Or was he simply programmed to use what the system knew about Moset when the hologram's behavior? I don't remember the episode that well and I didn't like it enough to re-watch it just to be up to date for this thread.

    I believe I remember him being pretty shocked when the bajoran accused him of the crimes... I haven't seen it in awhile either but I think he was unaware what he was made to represent

    My recollection is that Hologram Moset basically argued, "Hey, Real Moset was the Cardassian Mengele. I'm just a representation. I didn't do those things." Holo Moset also argued that it was a futile protest to spurn what Holo Moset knew as a way of rejecting what Real Moset did.

    Like so many other VOY episodes, I can at least say it had a genuinely solid premise.
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    MirrorVerse JcMirrorVerse Jc ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    V. wrote: »
    hmm even by the end of Dear Data he stated that he was no longer that character and had no interest in doing evil, and it seemed believable as he left his fate to Picard.

    I think Moset is evil. He is happy to kill the alien parasite when the operation could be done without killing it. He also states that the ends justify the means with regard to what the real version of himself did on Bajor.

    Moriarty did get re-activated by Barclay, and was no longer content to wait for Picard, then took the ship hostage. So his evil nature did show again.
    Dito crell comment. No need to kill the alien and he would have. I dont think he was self aware as pertaining to the real moset and history, but he did have the medical knowledge within the texts that created his program. And that medical experience was based on cruel experiments. Not “do no harm”.
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    Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    MirrorVerse Jc wrote: »
    V. wrote: »
    hmm even by the end of Dear Data he stated that he was no longer that character and had no interest in doing evil, and it seemed believable as he left his fate to Picard.

    I think Moset is evil. He is happy to kill the alien parasite when the operation could be done without killing it. He also states that the ends justify the means with regard to what the real version of himself did on Bajor.

    Moriarty did get re-activated by Barclay, and was no longer content to wait for Picard, then took the ship hostage. So his evil nature did show again.
    Dito crell comment. No need to kill the alien and he would have. I dont think he was self aware as pertaining to the real moset and history, but he did have the medical knowledge within the texts that created his program. And that medical experience was based on cruel experiments. Not “do no harm”.

    Moriarty was reactivated by Barclay, but had remained conscious the entire time. That's a significant part of the story, because it accounts for his resentment of Picard having nothing to show for the intervening years. That had to have been agonizing. He wasn't even trying to take over the Enterprise out of malice, but to finally have enough power that they couldn't continue to ignore him and shove him out of sight. And he did relinquish control as soon as he and the Countess were given a shuttlecraft and--to his understanding--their freedom. To my mind, he's entirely justified in everything he did.
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    Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd say Moriarty's biggest crime was shining a GLARING spotlight on the TNG writers/producers by showing us, the audience, that they absolutely should have brought back MORE of the random, interesting characters that Picard and crew encountered on their journey instead of heaping them all in the one-off dumpster. Okona LEAPS to mind, Dr. Toby Russell would be cool to revisit, that 1/4 Betazoid negotiator (can't remember his name, don't care to look it up!), there are many more!

    I think the argument for or against the Moset hologram boils down to sentience; if he is sentient, he is evil for the reasons brought up by others. If he is not sentient, then he is not evil, he is just the manifestation of computer coding.
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    Bluebeard1Bluebeard1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The whole Moriarty and Sherlock Holmes thing was probably a good reason why they didn't do many more random characters like this. TNG used the characters believing that they had rights to them (due to a previous connection they had with "Young Sherlock Holmes") and recieved a complaint from the family of sir Arthur Conan Doyle which included a request for a large sum of money for copyright infringement. The later Moriarty episode was with the blessing of the family, but also with a stern warning that they should undo some of the "damage"that the first episode had caused.... so legend has it.
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    Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    ByloBand wrote: »
    I'd say Moriarty's biggest crime was shining a GLARING spotlight on the TNG writers/producers by showing us, the audience, that they absolutely should have brought back MORE of the random, interesting characters that Picard and crew encountered on their journey instead of heaping them all in the one-off dumpster. Okona LEAPS to mind, Dr. Toby Russell would be cool to revisit, that 1/4 Betazoid negotiator (can't remember his name, don't care to look it up!), there are many more!

    I think the argument for or against the Moset hologram boils down to sentience; if he is sentient, he is evil for the reasons brought up by others. If he is not sentient, then he is not evil, he is just the manifestation of computer coding.

    I think it says something favorable about the writers that they conceived of so many one-offs who were interesting enough that we even cared about seeing them again, let alone that we're still fond of them and talking about them 25-32 years after their singular appearances. Though in fairness, I do wonder the extent to which watching a ton of reruns, playing the Decipher CCG, reading the DC Comics, and collecting the Playmates toys all reinforced a lot of those characters in my mind beyond where they might have been otherwise.
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    GhostStalkerGhostStalker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ummm, what's EVIL is the idea that Voyager's computers contained so much information on some Cardassian doctor that they could create a virtual version.
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    Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    GhostStalker wrote: »
    Ummm, what's EVIL is the idea that Voyager's computers contained so much information on some Cardassian doctor that they could create a virtual version.

    That was my thought exactly. How did Voyager's database have all that info? It's not like they could tap into Starfleet's network to download it all.
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