First, I apologize to you, Shan. You're entirely right that I overreacted to your relocating the thread, and engaged in the kind of hyperbolic accusations that I ordinarily try to rein in. I make no excuses. I was wrong and I'm sorry. And I promise, no more childish, passive-aggressive remarks in other threads about it, either. There is a remark in your post that I do feel is relevant to address (respectfully, this time!).
Let's pause for a second, are forums the correct avenue/channel to discuss legal matters? No, they are not.
It's a legal matter that could directly have serious consequences for this forum's community and the game's most prominent players. So far, it seems OpSec is content with my trivial little list being taken down by Google. There's no significance to that. But there are things like the Big and Little Books or the Level 100 Stats list that are important to this forum's community. Those resources have been created and maintained by several of this forum community's leaders, who are also among the biggest spenders. I cannot imagine that their Timelines-specific documents being targeted with DMCA complaints and being taken down wouldn't alienate those players/forum members. Or that they'll be the only ones who walk away from this community and game altogether if they are. That's my concern. This isn't some "If they make fake characters I'm going to quit buying packs and they'll go out of business!" thing.
Having said that, I'm done with the affair. I've informed at least some of my fellow forum members. What anyone does from here is up to them.
@Travis S McClain I'm really sorry this has happened to you. I look forward to all your posts because they're interesting and fun. It's sad to me that you've lost some of your enthusiasm. One of your contributions, the 'Do I airlock sheet' has become a bit of an inside legend in my fleet and we have you to thank for that.
As for being accepted in the community you're one of the pillars as far as I'm concerned!
First, I apologize to you, Shan. You're entirely right that I overreacted to your relocating the thread, and engaged in the kind of hyperbolic accusations that I ordinarily try to rein in. I make no excuses. I was wrong and I'm sorry. And I promise, no more childish, passive-aggressive remarks in other threads about it, either. There is a remark in your post that I do feel is relevant to address (respectfully, this time!).
Thank you, Travis - I really appreciate this, and I really appreciate you
I understand how you wanted to inform other players of potential risks as it pertains to all the great resources various players have made available to our community.
And that what I meant by "framing it differently", which is not always easy to do, I know that firsthand
Maybe just, out of an abundance of caution or paranoia, those of us who make or support tools and spreadsheets and such for the community would do well to make sure there is a common, 'non copyright flag catching' naming convention - like always using STT instead of Star Trek Timelines in the titles. Anything that can't be caught by a header-scanning bot. At least for the Google Sheets users.
First, I apologize to you, Shan. You're entirely right that I overreacted to your relocating the thread, and engaged in the kind of hyperbolic accusations that I ordinarily try to rein in. I make no excuses. I was wrong and I'm sorry. And I promise, no more childish, passive-aggressive remarks in other threads about it, either. There is a remark in your post that I do feel is relevant to address (respectfully, this time!).
Thank you, Travis - I really appreciate this, and I really appreciate you
I understand how you wanted to inform other players of potential risks as it pertains to all the great resources various players have made available to our community.
And that what I meant by "framing it differently", which is not always easy to do, I know that firsthand
I appreciate your graciousness, Shan. You lead by an admirable example.
Maybe just, out of an abundance of caution or paranoia, those of us who make or support tools and spreadsheets and such for the community would do well to make sure there is a common, 'non copyright flag catching' naming convention - like always using STT instead of Star Trek Timelines in the titles. Anything that can't be caught by a header-scanning bot. At least for the Google Sheets users.
It's impossible to omit character names, and if their search was broad enough to catch episode titles with almost entirely generic words, I can't imagine specific names like "Spock", "T'Pol", "Kahless", etc. are far behind. I leave it to more knowledgeable forum members to arrive at a solution. In the brainstorming, bear in mind that, in my case at least, they seem content with having it taken down but emphasized that repeat occurrences would result in all kinds of trouble. Whether "repeat" includes multiple published things already up, is unclear. I took down all my other lists peremptorily before I could find out.
@Travis S McClain I'm really sorry this has happened to you. I look forward to all your posts because they're interesting and fun. It's sad to me that you've lost some of your enthusiasm. One of your contributions, the 'Do I airlock sheet' has become a bit of an inside legend in my fleet and we have you to thank for that.
As for being accepted in the community you're one of the pillars as far as I'm concerned!
Oops, I overlooked this somehow! That's very kind of you to say, @(10F) Seven of One , thank you. I hope @Data1001 shares that legendary status for designing the actual flowchart graphic.
Damn, @Travis S McClain , I would shake your hand & thank you in person if I could. Your posts in this thread illustrate how people can come to understand each other better, once we all slow down and think. Your gracious apology to Shan is a fine example of how I can improve myself in communication.
Regarding @Frank? ’s point about STT & naming convention, I hope that it would only be necessary for document titles. I mean, if “Mirror Reed” gets caught in such a net, then that’s entirely too broad of a legal definition for copyright infringement, in my personal opinion.
Anyway, thank you for bringing this to my attention. As a member of our STT community, I sincerely appreciate it and everything you have done in the past to foster us & help other players.
🖖
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Damn, @Travis S McClain , I would shake your hand & thank you in person if I could. Your posts in this thread illustrate how people can come to understand each other better, once we all slow down and think. Your gracious apology to Shan is a fine example of how I can improve myself in communication.
I would call the apology deserved; Shan accepting it was gracious. And also give her credit for what she didn't do, which is respond to me in the same snotty tone. It's easy to overlook what doesn't happen, but those are often the more important parts of things.
Regarding @Frank? ’s point about STT & naming convention, I hope that it would only be necessary for document titles. I mean, if “Mirror Reed” gets caught in such a net, then that’s entirely too broad of a legal definition for copyright infringement, in my personal opinion.
Fingers crossed!
Anyway, thank you for bringing this to my attention. As a member of our STT community, I sincerely appreciate it and everything you have done in the past to foster us & help other players.
🖖
Comments
It's a legal matter that could directly have serious consequences for this forum's community and the game's most prominent players. So far, it seems OpSec is content with my trivial little list being taken down by Google. There's no significance to that. But there are things like the Big and Little Books or the Level 100 Stats list that are important to this forum's community. Those resources have been created and maintained by several of this forum community's leaders, who are also among the biggest spenders. I cannot imagine that their Timelines-specific documents being targeted with DMCA complaints and being taken down wouldn't alienate those players/forum members. Or that they'll be the only ones who walk away from this community and game altogether if they are. That's my concern. This isn't some "If they make fake characters I'm going to quit buying packs and they'll go out of business!" thing.
Having said that, I'm done with the affair. I've informed at least some of my fellow forum members. What anyone does from here is up to them.
As for being accepted in the community you're one of the pillars as far as I'm concerned!
Check out our website to find out more:
https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
Thank you, Travis - I really appreciate this, and I really appreciate you
I understand how you wanted to inform other players of potential risks as it pertains to all the great resources various players have made available to our community.
And that what I meant by "framing it differently", which is not always easy to do, I know that firsthand
I appreciate your graciousness, Shan. You lead by an admirable example.
It's impossible to omit character names, and if their search was broad enough to catch episode titles with almost entirely generic words, I can't imagine specific names like "Spock", "T'Pol", "Kahless", etc. are far behind. I leave it to more knowledgeable forum members to arrive at a solution. In the brainstorming, bear in mind that, in my case at least, they seem content with having it taken down but emphasized that repeat occurrences would result in all kinds of trouble. Whether "repeat" includes multiple published things already up, is unclear. I took down all my other lists peremptorily before I could find out.
Oops, I overlooked this somehow! That's very kind of you to say, @(10F) Seven of One , thank you. I hope @Data1001 shares that legendary status for designing the actual flowchart graphic.
Regarding @Frank? ’s point about STT & naming convention, I hope that it would only be necessary for document titles. I mean, if “Mirror Reed” gets caught in such a net, then that’s entirely too broad of a legal definition for copyright infringement, in my personal opinion.
Anyway, thank you for bringing this to my attention. As a member of our STT community, I sincerely appreciate it and everything you have done in the past to foster us & help other players.
🖖
I would call the apology deserved; Shan accepting it was gracious. And also give her credit for what she didn't do, which is respond to me in the same snotty tone. It's easy to overlook what doesn't happen, but those are often the more important parts of things.
Fingers crossed!
Right back atcha, @~peregrine~.