December Campaign Feedback!
DScottHewitt
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"Next Campaign will go back to 💯 Tiers."
Hopefully, after they look at the numbers, and the player feedback, they will consider the 120 Tier Campaign becoming permanent.
NOTE: Edited title and composed a long apology for the controversy my original post seemed to cause. Stupid tablet jumped away from it, and it was lost. Sorry I upset people.
Hopefully, after they look at the numbers, and the player feedback, they will consider the 120 Tier Campaign becoming permanent.
NOTE: Edited title and composed a long apology for the controversy my original post seemed to cause. Stupid tablet jumped away from it, and it was lost. Sorry I upset people.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
9
Comments
Well, it would be a really nice permanent change, so we can all begin paying down our HUGE Honor Debts & make some progress on all those rows of hopeless 1/5 crew that you will never get around to. Perhaps we could have all put a dent in our Honor Debt & make some progress on some of those 1/5s.
― Musashi, Japan's Greatest Swordsman and Samurai
Agreed. It was announced as an experiment. They don't even have the full months data yet. You can't expect TP to suddenly announce it's permanent. This feels like Scott deciding that because he liked something TP will make a change. And once he convinced himself that the change was happening he's now disappointed that it's not happening.
And I'm sure that's what TP is looking at. But this campaign is not done yet. You have people like me who will likely buy the campaign but haven't yet. Then TP wants to see if the campaign sales are new money or money that would have been spent on other things. Give them time, let them see what the final sales numbers look look like. Then they can decide what the Feb or March campaign will be. But if they were going to make the extra tiers permanent they wouldn't have announced it as temporary. Since it was announced as temporary, they never were going to do the same thing for January.
Where are you getting "one-time event" from? I can't see that in the Let It Snow Campaign message.
It says, "We're trying something new with our next campaign by expanding it with additional campaign tiers, as well as adding bonus accolades in the threshold rewards of the next four events!"
At the end of the message, it does say "We hope you'll enjoy this special campaign...", but that's not exactly iron-clad confirmation that the extended tiers would be unique to that event. As every campaign has different crew, every campaign is "special".
As for your question about why it's a problem that campaigns are going back to 100 tiers, you must be new to Timelines! Crew slots continue to be a problem for us longer-term players, and having that extra 4* citation in the campaign helps freeze one of those annoying 3/4 crew left over from non-Galaxy events. Removing the extra tiers from the next campaign will cost most of us a crew slot.
And for paying players, it's already questionable value to spend any amount of money on a game that is shedding players at the rate Timelines is. As others have mentioned, the extra 5* citation can easily be the difference between supporting a franchise you love or not throwing away $10 on a moribund game that may close down within a year.
This echos my sentiments to a T. And, at least some of these comments are not complaints. After all, in Shan's message she said, "We hope you’ll enjoy this special campaign, and we’re looking forward to your feedback."
That is what I'm (and others) are trying to do.
Visit us on discord to find out more:
https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn/
Yup! I'm not complaining, either. Just correcting Bylo's mistake and answering his question. (Surprisingly, giving us less for our time and our money next month has not built up much positive feedback so far.
But for people who are dismayed over this, don't forget that Ben announced that a mini-event would start within the next three days (Monday at the latest). I appreciated their honest warning that it's unlikely to be another dilithium-fest, and I'm looking forward to seeing what goodies we get instead. It's something to look forward to this weekend that will hopefully more than make up for losing a few campaign tiers.
If the discrepancy in purchases is big enough, I assume we'll see it return. No point getting too disappointed at this stage; give them a chance to assess the data.
Extra 4* citations are always a plus, no doubt. But on some level we have to realize that WRG isn’t going to offer so many that people won’t need to 1) buy event packs, 2) wait for a portal update, or 3) give up on getting the fourth star from threshold crew in Faction and Skirmish events. Pain points that are intended to lead players to make purchases are the point of these events, they’re one tool in WRG’s arsenal to keep the lights on.
Could they find better ways to earn our money? I think so, and I think they know that - hence the experiments with expanded campaign tiers, new offer designs, and the like. And regarding campaigns, we should not be so hasty as to expect them to be permanently extended until we see an announcement explicitly saying as much.
Either you agree with wanting 120 tiers to be normal or you have a reason it shouldn't. Whether it's was intended or not is not point. TP doesn't need an army of defence trolls leveling nitpicks based on presumption of their methods and goals, they can and should be speaking for themselves. No one said it was a "problem" to stay with 100 tiers. They said they want the 120 tiers to become normalized and said they observed a better than average feedback for this.
Either agree or disagree with the substance.
Maybe TP doesn't have the data they need yet to make the change for the next campaign. Also a valid point. Maybe it'll go back to 120 tiers after the Blue Winter campaign. Who knows?
I think it's premature to be attacking the company or fellow players. This is certainly the place to vent frustrations, but we can be adults here. And we can even do one better. We can give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Does Scott really think the company is ignoring us? No. He posted here because he knows they listen. He didn't say he's quitting because the company doesn't listen. He came here to be heard. And I'm confident that he will be.
Is Bylo new to Timelines? No. I've seen him around the forum for 2+ years. I think it's going on 3. Essentially calling him a noob is rude and ridiculous on its face. Why not assume that Bylo's question was an honest one? The company said they were trying something new. @÷ The Eternal Champion , @(HGH)Apollo , and @Spiff, Spaceman had no problem elaborating on their disappointment with TP reverting to 100 tiers without attacking Bylo.
As to people dumping on Scott... I don't see it. One person thinks it's not worthwhile to complain. (I happen to disagree.) But the rest is stuff that continues the conversation that Scott started or asks for elaboration. Scott, if you're feeling attacked, then flag the posts. No one should be attacked here. We all just want the game to be better.
As for my 2¢... @Calhoun and @AviTrek have the right idea. Patience. Come to the forum and let the devs know you want the 120 tiers back. Vote with your wallet on the Blue Winter campaign if that's what moves you. But give the devs until the campaign following Blue Winter to see if the change becomes permanent or a regular part of mega events, at least.
TL;DR: Be kind to each other.
Imo the test format was rather generous, I would not expect it to return in that fashion. Maybe a behold instead of the 2nd citation? Or a replication of tiers 61 to 80 instead of 81 to 100? Maybe they will test several options to find the sweet spot like they did with the crew. Different usefulness of crew would prevent the comparability though. Whatever... we will see.
Who’s disagreeing that 120 tiers isn’t a good idea going forward? I just re-read this thread and didn’t see anyone saying anything along the lines of “you know, I don’t like getting the most possible value for either the free or premium campaign tracks.” As long as reaching all 120 tiers is a reachable goal - because there were early concerns that some players might not reach all 20 added tiers - we can all agree that this is a good thing.
The issue here is one of managing expectations. There’s clearly some kind of personnel crunch going on at WRG, because we’re way past due on the next Cataclysm, the portal update took far too long to complete, and Carlos Data is still missing from the Big Goodbye collection (someone please help if I am forgetting something). Tiers 101-120 are an experiment - can people reach them by way of event threshold accolades, do the rewards make people want to reach those tiers in the first place, and how much extra value does TP want to offer in order to boost sales. Customarily, you run an experiment, take time to analyze the data, and then make adjustments as necessary. This takes time in the best of conditions, and whether it’s the ‘rona or something else, that does not describe what’s happening at WRG right now.
There has been a strong undercurrent of “I WANT MORE STUFF NOW” complaining going on here recently, a total Veruca Salt vibe. (Not saying this is what Scott’s up to, as he’s one of my favorite people here and I agree that it’s a bummer we’re not getting 120 tiers for the next campaign.) It’s getting old, as is the concern-trolling that comes up when people say that the entitlement syndrome is tiresome. How many people have left the forum or the game entirely because this forum is turning into a toxic swamp? Is it a number that approaches, equals, or exceeds the number of people who have left because the game no longer holds their interest? It’s hard to tell, because they’re no longer here to comment.
I tend to disagree. I would rather have an infinite campaign where each and every accolade comes to use but noone can reach "the end".
In other games I play this is for example done with repeating "100+" over and over again with rewards equivalent to dil + chrons + credits/merits.
/edit: I would really like to see higher VIPs being incentivized not only with finishing quicklier but also actually getting more. Keeping the lights on, you know...
I love the game and don’t ever see myself not loving it. I most definitely left the forum because of the people. The attacks are exhausting and something I don’t want to spend time thinking about. One of them, through PM’s was downright disturbing. Like hold your children close, this guy might show up at my house disturbing. There are good people here that I would really enjoy chatting with on discord but the few that are awful, that eye rolling, you again, exhaustion just overpowers the decent conversations
I absolutely see where you’re coming from - I’ll finish tiers 119 and 120 tomorrow and still have a few days of useless accolades. But an infinite number of tiers, with the last 20 or so just repeating, would ultimately require a different or additional method of awarding accolades. Even with the accolades that have been put in rewards, there is a hard cap on the number that can be accumulated during a campaign.
Maybe tying them to purchases (like some of those third-week-of-the-campaign LTOs in recent months that contained some catch-up accolades), having additional event threshold accolades, or adding some to VIP rewards is the way to go there? I dunno, but more accolades would need to be made available to reasonably go much past 140-150 tiers.
Then there’s another concern that loops back into the larger discussion in this topic - infinite tiers, or even just an expansion to 140, 175, or 200 tiers, means some or more people will miss out. Then those people come here to complain that they are missing out, or that Evil WRG is just trying to soak them for more money, or that WRG Only Cares About Whales, or whatever the rant du jour happens to be. Then other people will point out that this is just a game, that you shouldn’t be so stressed about things. Then yet other people will get huffy and shouty and declare that the second group is nothing but Shills and Defense Trolls. Then more people give up on the forum and retreat to Discord/Line/Slack, further jacking up the troll-to-human ratio. It’s a vicious cycle.
I took this campaign as a special occurrence, like how Christmas is special once a year. Would I like to see it become a permanent fixture within the game? Certainly!
Having said that, there is validity to some of the sentiment echoed in this thread. While I enjoy this game and the people who are a part of it, at least for me, the game is getting stale. While the ability to purchase inexpensive, shiny toys is nice, the effect is short lived (and the size of honor debt is inconceivable). I appreciate that WRG is trying to spice it up a bit, and I would like to see more in the way of evolving missions, new event styles, portal updates, etc. Just my two cents. Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to everyone.
Edit: @Dirk Gunderson I loved the Veruca reference. I just used it in another thread recently.
Agreed.
Though I also agree with the sentiment that the game is becoming stagnant, as I come up on my 4th anniversary.
While it may be cynical of me, I feel like everything TP has done since taking over has had nothing to do with improving the game or the overall experience/value for players, but rather has purely been geared to increasing sales (aka milking a known cash cow). I understand a company needing to be profitable, but I feel this approach is driving away long-time, loyal, paying players.
For the game to be sustainable and more profitable in the long-run I think adding new content, making long-promised improvements, creating a calendar for standard updates (ie: portal, gauntlet, etc...), more effectively engaging the player base, and increasing value for players for every dollar spent, would be a far better way of increasing spending and their bottom line.
1. Raise captain level.
2. Search avatars by name feature
3. Fleet rewards
4. Admiral tools (lock rooms - promote demote squad leaders)
5. Regular portal updates
6. Voyage recall tokens (time reducers)
7. New event type (not just a short skirmish)
8. Expand map
9. New missions
10. Expand collections
11. Raise immortal total rewards
12. Revise squad rewards
13. Fix chat censor
14. Create a shipyard
15. Extra Voyages
16. Revise gauntlet
17. 1 click builds in galaxy events
We did get a couple new collections. Many other items on this list have been issues (wants, desires) for several years now. Hopefully 2021 brings some of these. (I really want a shipyard to improve ship stats, might break things up a bit in arena).
As someone who considers themselves pretty informed about this game - this forum our discord and, you know, actually playing and paying - may I ask where you get this information from? I hear alot about 'Ben' but have never seen any communications from him :-/
Many thanks.
WRG Ben (someone please help me remember his job title...QA Lead or something like that) makes occasional appearances on Timelines Talks. Many episodes ago, we were promised a mini-event in “late fall.” Even if you use the strictest definition of the seasons (by way of the solstices and equinoxes) there are only a few more days before that promise will be broken.
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
I am on your side too, but it does say: "...of the next four events".
Why am I on your side? I need around 30.000.000 of Honor to immortalize my full Legendary crew roster, I just didn't make the account in time but Datacore's app tells that I need 42 years to fulfill that achievement!