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TP/WRG monetizing voyage bug

I had an interesting exchange with CS over the holidays which leads me to believe that TP/WRG is trying to monetize the long standing voyage bug instead of working on a fix. This is my interpretation, but at the very least, I figured I could use a second opinion from the forums and draw attention to the issue. Below I will try to explain in general terms the gist of the discussion that has wider relevance from the community (and hopefully stay within the forum guidelines of not sharing exact details of interaction with CS).

I encountered the usual voyage bug where the dilemma would not pop up and the voyage was stuck. I guess all of us have encountered this over the years and I contacted CS to rescue the voyage. I wasn't necessarily going for a long voyage and had only revived it a few times since I got Part 1 and 2 of Champion of the People at 2 and 4 hrs. All I wanted from CS was the rewards I already had and did not actually ask for Voyage exclusive crew. But CS came back to me offering that I can choose any voyage exclusive crew (plus a bunch of other stuff like 10x premium packs etc) in exchange for 1500 dilithium. Some further back and forth with CS revealed that this was a decision taken by TP/WRG management to make sure players can get voyage exclusive crew, since there is no guarantee that the next long voyage will not get stuck again.

On the face of it, it seems TP/WRG are trying to help the player, but I have a problem with them asking for dilithium (and hence in essence monetizing a bug) in the name of helping players penalized by a bug they have refused to fix even after 2 years.
  1. Ordinarily, I could get a full set of voyage exclusive crew by running a long voyage using voyage revival tokens. This can easily be done without spending any real money (or dilithium) by saving up on threshold rewards from events and the occasional tokens we get from care packages and maintenance. But the voyage bug makes this somewhat hard and 2 of my 3 attempts over the last year failed because of a stuck voyage.
  2. I hear from @Shan that TP/WRG are working on a fix and are close, but in all seriousness its been nearly 2 years and its getting a bit ridiculous. Especially considering that they haven't really introduced anything new or exciting lately so I don't know where their resources are going (but that's a gripe for another thread).
  3. Not disputing the need for an interim solution, I do think asking for dilithium because of a know bug that TP/WRG have not fixed leaves a bad taste. If this was to become the modus operandi, what stops TP/WRG from intentionally introducing random bugs and then asking for dilithium or money to get around it!!
  4. Simply put, this is TP/WRGs fault and if someone is penalized it should be them and not the player since they are not at fault.
  5. More constructively, at the very least there should be an option for using voyage tokens instead of dilithium and also not 1, and the player should be offered 6 voyage exclusive crew that they could realistically get from running a long voyage in the absence of the bug. This could be further refined to be 2 crew that drop from the 3-part dilemmas (since you can only choose 1 out of 2 exclusives from each one) and all 4 from 2-part dilemmas.
  6. I also though the earlier solution, where CS would return all the dilithium/voyage tokens spent (they only refunded the last one for me under the new policy) was more fair. Correct, no guarantee that I would get the voyage exclusive crew if the voyage got stuck before any of the Part 2s 3s sprung up, but at least I would get all the resources spend on the voyage, while getting the accumulated rewards as compensation for time wasted.

These are my 2 cents. Just thought this warranted a wider discussion.
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Comments

  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    I understand returning the last revival token used. This has happened to me recently. CS gave me the token and 100 chrons (for the missed dilemma), and I recalled the voyage.

    When I was trying for voyage exclusive McCoy, my voyage froze at 64 hours. At that point, it was still DB and the CS Representative was kind enough to offer me McCoy when I explained I was trying for him in particular. I then just recalled the voyage.

    I do not like the charge of 1500 dilithium for a voyage exclusive crew you might have obtained, if not for a known glitch that has been happening for quite some time now. I do get there are no guarantees on a voyage, unless you are willing to run them all (and even then it might freeze). However, in a situation like that, I’d think they could remove the appropriate number of revival tokens and send you the appropriate rewards.
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.” —Mark TwainMEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy! Best Event Finish: #3 Honor Debt: Inconceivable...Honor Bank Account: Slowly building...
  • Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    Here are my thoughts (also, VERY thorough write up @Drone_one I appreciate it!):

    1. My guess is that this is less about monetizing the voyage bug, but more of a preventive measure taken by the company to discourage players from looking for a way to exploit the bug for positive gains while they work on a permanent repair. I'm not entirely sure how that would work, but given we've had multiple scandals where players and player-created addons have exploited the game, it seems putting this in place might just be to try and limit that from being explored. Even under that assumption 1,500 seems really steep to me, but on a basic level, I can understand it, or at least understand how it may have come about.

    2. I am less bothered by by this CS solution as I am with the absence of choice. I think if CS gave you a choice, this 1,500 dilithium solution or some variation on free recall/revival (the old standard solution with a dash of chronitons sprinkled in) I would have no problem with this, again with the understanding that I feel 1,500 is too high.

    3. My guess is the price is set to 1,500 because that is how much SR are sold for in faction stores. We all agree that that price is too high and in this case this is not just about the voyage exclusive SR but also represents an entire voyage, so 1,500 feels especially punitive to the players. I would set the price for this package around 650, or the price of a standard 10x pull. It may require further adjustment from that price point, but that is where I would start if it was up to me.
  • MiT SanoaMiT Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for sharing, @Drone_one! Only refunding a single voyage token after days of voyage is outrageous. And 1500 dil for the voyage only crew is a ripoff, as bad as they are statwise.

    I considered to try one soon as I assumed that there was nothing to lose, but I certainly will not under these new circumstances.
    Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
  • I wasn't per-say complaining about the 1500 dilithium price - though thanks @Bylo Band for the perspective. Perhaps explains why they picked the 1500 number. What bothers me is that in the name of helping players, they are attempting to make money from a bug that they have not fixed in years.

    And yes, part of my reaction is driven by the general frustration about the recent behavior of TP/WRG - lack of any significant gameplay updates since they introduced skirmishes, no real deals over the holidays, initial dismissive attitude towards Adira art change and issues I am having about getting compensation because I didn't take the right screenshot.

    I guess my feeling is that the game is moving more and more towards money grab with random giveaways when things get they think too many people are annoyed. And this seemed to be another element of that overall drift.
  • WaldoMag wrote: »
    From what I understand the Iampicard, could unstuck a stuck voyage. My complaint is why then had DB/TP/WR failed to be able to do it with are game client.

    And of course, this has been a known problem for a long time. The response for this bug should be to refund all voyage supply tokens and dil. used to extend the voyage. If the person has screenshots of rewards gained, return of all those rewards. Otherwise, a formula for refunding based on the length of voyage that would be equivalent to what one would get on a voyage of that length.


    Exploited of course, this is what puts pressure on them to fix the bug, right now they have been trying to remove the pressure that makes them fix a bug, Why? So they can ignore fixing the bug.

    Exactly this, and more eloquent than my ramblings :)
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    @DAE you are right about what they meany about voyage supply tokens. I think originally it was to make up for stuck voyages.

    However, I quite regularly extended my voyages with dil. Usually going about 20 hours. After voyage supply tokens, I almost never go past 8 hours. The voyage supply tokens caused this. I wanted to maximize their use.

    But now the only, reason I would extend any voyage is if I wanted to try to get some of the random crew in the portal. Frankly, the components one gets after the six hour dilemma are all 2* components. If you have been playing for a while but still are leveling crew every week, the only 2* component you need is the database. The incentive tips to only do 6 hour voyages. But, then you lose out on honor and Chron. I think voyages of 8-10 hours are pobably the best way to go. But if you are more concerned about components then 6 hours is the best choice.

    Edit: I should mention stuck voyages, cause one to give up on trying to get all the copies one needs to immortalize the 3 part crew. Instead it is much easier to just use a Superrare citation. Of course now we end up losing a citation on something we could do through the voyage if they did not get stuck.

    But, you still need the first copy through voyages.
  • DAEDAE ✭✭✭
    @WaldoMag
    Ditto. 👍🏻🖖🏻 Lol.
  • Veterinary PhloxVeterinary Phlox ✭✭✭✭✭
    Strange, I used to get the bug all the time, but I haven't in over a year. I assumed it was resolved.

    This is too dramatic a shift to blame on luck. I wonder if there was a change in my voyage behavior? Or maybe it's been better mitigated on some platforms, and not others. (I'm on Android.)
    Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.

    Starport
  • I am on iOS and for me it seems to be getting worse. I am fine running 10 hours, but anything above it invariably gets stuck. Mostly around the 14 or 16 hr dilemmas.
  • W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    I play on Kindle and, knock on wood, I've never had a voyage stick. I only use tokens if I forget. I average 8:30 on my Voyages, which I think is shifting up, and have never passed the 20hr mark. Even considering that, I have 6 of the 8 Voyage exclusive crew. The four from the two-part ers are all It's, except one, and I have two from the three-parters. I managed all three parts of "A Higher Duty" back to back to back within six hours. I figure statistically I will get them eventually.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    I play on Kindle and, knock on wood, I've never had a voyage stick. I only use tokens if I forget. I average 8:30 on my Voyages, which I think is shifting up, and have never passed the 20hr mark. Even considering that, I have 6 of the 8 Voyage exclusive crew. The four from the two-part ers are all It's, except one, and I have two from the three-parters. I managed all three parts of "A Higher Duty" back to back to back within six hours. I figure statistically I will get them eventually.

    I have no data to back this up, but it seems like they get stuck on longer voyages. My guess is something about transmitting all the voyage text and possibly combined with weak internet signals. I've never had a stuck voyage under 10 hours. So as long as you're not extending you're ok. It's when you start to extend the voyages that you run into problems.
  • W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    I may eventually do a long one for the achievement, but I am happy with my regular ones. Some of the Kindle bugs have been improved on lately. Maybe they are working out some of the kinks as they are preparing for the new feature? Depending on what it is, they might have found some of the sources while working on that.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
  • Lobo SinclairLobo Sinclair ✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    I had my first stuck one— at 30 hours.

    Eighteen hours after I sent a note to Support, I got an offer to get all my tokens back (10) and nothing from the voyage, or get all the rewards gained so far and get one token back.

    I went with keeping the rewards. Want 2 of the SRs I had gotten already— and get SOMETHING from my wait for the stuck voyage (been 28 hrs and counting since it got stuck). If they don’t unstick me by reset time tonight, I’ll also miss the voyage daily because it’s been stuck since yesterday morning. Lovely.

    And then I have to save up tokens for another couple of months to make an extended voyage to try for Worf or Picard again (just needed Part 3 this time; I’m a bit annoyed to miss it this time).

    It’d be cool if they fixed this bug— or made it a little easier to get the third part of a voyage exclusive crew within a normal 8-10 hr voyage.

    And if I’m reading this right, the expectation is to use dilithium for extended voyages; tokens were intended to be used for some other reason? What would that even cost? And to make a few 3-part exclusive crew on extended voyages...? Lame.

    Edit: voyage finally recalled, and while not nearly as productive as I had hoped it’d be when I was at 8hrs, I did get a token back and an additional SR crew I actually needed. — And in time to send another voyage out to get the daily achievement (and add to the current temporary achievement).
  • Wait, so do people using dilithium to extend voyages never experience stuck voyages?!?
  • KatlaKatla ✭✭✭
    Less than a year ago I had a voyage get stuck while I was 20+ hours in chasing a star on McCoy. CS gave me a copy of him and returned what I'd earned to that point.
    I assumed this was standard procedure,.at least when you're going for a third dilemma. Sad to see that they're trying to make players pay for their bug instead of being magnanimous about it.
  • Katla wrote: »
    Less than a year ago I had a voyage get stuck while I was 20+ hours in chasing a star on McCoy. CS gave me a copy of him and returned what I'd earned to that point.
    I assumed this was standard procedure,.at least when you're going for a third dilemma. Sad to see that they're trying to make players pay for their bug instead of being magnanimous about it.

    I don't think it's ever been standard procedure. When a similar thing happened to me, I got a random 4* and the last revival token that I had used. The voyage failed at 1 day and a half and the only reason I had kept reviving it was that I wanted a Colonel Worf. They did insta-recall it though, so I didn't have to wait for it to come back, which I appreciated at the time.
  • Emperor Borg Drone (SC)Emperor Borg Drone (SC) ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    @Katla @Emperor Borg Drone

    Last week I did a voyage to get all dilemmas. I had enough tokens to complete without using dilithium. My second last dilemma was ‘A life alone part 2’ which I picked Jannar. The voyage log however showed this....
    tamnx1sm7t8m.jpeg

    Then after I ran out of antimatter it wouldn’t let me refresh (the bug when you run out of dilemmas) even though I still hadn’t gotten the real ‘A higher duty part 3’
    ybv5gqdnuxyq.jpeg

    So when I emailed support to tell them this and that I didn’t think it was the ‘usual’ voyage issue, something different, they returned all I had collected on the voyage instantly to my inventory +1 Dr. Leonard McCoy and an extra revive token 🖖

    That's good to know in case the same thing should happen again to other players! :smile:

    But in my case and Katla's case we didn't run through all dilemmas before the voyage got stuck, so there was no way to know when exactly we would have gotten the card we wanted. Thinking of it now, maybe I should have offered them 10-15 revival tokens in exchange for one copy of Worf?
  • @Katla @Emperor Borg Drone

    Last week I did a voyage to get all dilemmas. I had enough tokens to complete without using dilithium. My second last dilemma was ‘A life alone part 2’ which I picked Jannar. The voyage log however showed this....
    tamnx1sm7t8m.jpeg

    Then after I ran out of antimatter it wouldn’t let me refresh (the bug when you run out of dilemmas) even though I still hadn’t gotten the real ‘A higher duty part 3’
    ybv5gqdnuxyq.jpeg

    So when I emailed support to tell them this and that I didn’t think it was the ‘usual’ voyage issue, something different, they returned all I had collected on the voyage instantly to my inventory +1 Dr. Leonard McCoy and an extra revive token 🖖

    That's good to know in case the same thing should happen again to other players! :smile:

    But in my case and Katla's case we didn't run through all dilemmas before the voyage got stuck, so there was no way to know when exactly we would have gotten the card we wanted. Thinking of it now, maybe I should have offered them 10-15 revival tokens in exchange for one copy of Worf?

    The thing that was weirdest for me was when I got one dilemma but it showed up as another in the log lol... never heard of that happening before 🖖
    “What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”

    Proud member of Patterns of Force
    Captain Level 99
    Played since January 2017

    TP: Do better!!!
  • @Katla @Emperor Borg Drone

    Last week I did a voyage to get all dilemmas. I had enough tokens to complete without using dilithium. My second last dilemma was ‘A life alone part 2’ which I picked Jannar. The voyage log however showed this....
    tamnx1sm7t8m.jpeg

    Then after I ran out of antimatter it wouldn’t let me refresh (the bug when you run out of dilemmas) even though I still hadn’t gotten the real ‘A higher duty part 3’
    ybv5gqdnuxyq.jpeg

    So when I emailed support to tell them this and that I didn’t think it was the ‘usual’ voyage issue, something different, they returned all I had collected on the voyage instantly to my inventory +1 Dr. Leonard McCoy and an extra revive token 🖖

    That's good to know in case the same thing should happen again to other players! :smile:

    But in my case and Katla's case we didn't run through all dilemmas before the voyage got stuck, so there was no way to know when exactly we would have gotten the card we wanted. Thinking of it now, maybe I should have offered them 10-15 revival tokens in exchange for one copy of Worf?

    The thing that was weirdest for me was when I got one dilemma but it showed up as another in the log lol... never heard of that happening before 🖖

    I think I've seen it mentioned in a post in the Engineering Room a few days ago (was that your post? :sweat_smile: ) but it seems to be new. I had never heard of it either.
  • @Katla @Emperor Borg Drone

    Last week I did a voyage to get all dilemmas. I had enough tokens to complete without using dilithium. My second last dilemma was ‘A life alone part 2’ which I picked Jannar. The voyage log however showed this....
    tamnx1sm7t8m.jpeg

    Then after I ran out of antimatter it wouldn’t let me refresh (the bug when you run out of dilemmas) even though I still hadn’t gotten the real ‘A higher duty part 3’
    ybv5gqdnuxyq.jpeg

    So when I emailed support to tell them this and that I didn’t think it was the ‘usual’ voyage issue, something different, they returned all I had collected on the voyage instantly to my inventory +1 Dr. Leonard McCoy and an extra revive token 🖖

    That's good to know in case the same thing should happen again to other players! :smile:

    But in my case and Katla's case we didn't run through all dilemmas before the voyage got stuck, so there was no way to know when exactly we would have gotten the card we wanted. Thinking of it now, maybe I should have offered them 10-15 revival tokens in exchange for one copy of Worf?

    The thing that was weirdest for me was when I got one dilemma but it showed up as another in the log lol... never heard of that happening before 🖖

    I think I've seen it mentioned in a post in the Engineering Room a few days ago (was that your post? :sweat_smile: ) but it seems to be new. I had never heard of it either.

    Yes it was my post :lol:
    “What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”

    Proud member of Patterns of Force
    Captain Level 99
    Played since January 2017

    TP: Do better!!!
  • But CS came back to me offering that I can choose any voyage exclusive crew (plus a bunch of other stuff like 10x premium packs etc) in exchange for 1500 dilithium.

    Yup they did this to me last year when my voyage got stuck with only 2 dilemmas left. And late in the voyage my log would show I completed a different dilemma than I actually did, which I assume messed up my chances of ever actually finishing those 3 parters. I have 40 voyage revival tokens saved now and no reason to try and waste them again so I guess they’ll just keep collecting.
  • Your signature is particularly apropos.
    Just as a reminder, this is from last week, oh wait, no Sept 2020:

    "Regarding the Voyage stuck bug, we would like to share some good news. Progress has been made in finding the cause of the issue! We hope to be able to implement a solution in game soon." :/

    https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/16807/some-star-trek-timelines-news-and-star-trek-day#latest

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