I think the biggest issue is that small and middle range players cannot afford to sit on honor and accumulate it to build up their crew whereas we larger players have many good legendaries and can wait. It would be good for TP to find ways to get more honor in low and middle range players.
That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?
Many smaller players are spending their honor on things higher lvl players do not, like training boosts, replicator rations, green and blue citations, etc. TP could give out a large amount of these to every mailbox. The high end players could not complain they were slighted because everyone got them but it would mainly only help low end players.
TP could also give a large amount of honor to new accounts when they are started which would hopefully bring in new players as well as encourage older players to start alt accounts.
TP could also eliminate the need to unlock cadet missions. That would help smaller players.
TP could also have contests that reward players but that has different tiers of rewards for player lvl. This would be hard to setup though and could make others angry if lower tiers had better rewards. It would need to be communicated ahead of time by TP why they were doing this to prevent much of the anger but not all. TP could give higher lvls rewards that they would like that would not help newer players much, perhaps some of the new currencies coming.
I started a new account around May. I can tell you that you're right about training boosts, and possibly replicator rations to a lesser extent. Honestly, the cadet thing is a drop in the bucket. I like it being as-is for its sense of achievement. The real thing though, is this addresses new accounts vs old accounts more than VIP0 vs VIP14. You did give me an idea, though. Giving out citations or beholds periodically would be more impactful to lower spenders.
I don't mean to be overly critical. I guess I need to understand what you mean my bigger vs smaller accounts. Is it newer vs older or low spender vs big spender?
By bigger and smaller accounts I mean captain lvl, high or low.
It seems your bigger goal then, is to help newer players catch up. I remember needing trainers. If I were devs, I think I would add 50-100 gold trainers to the loot when players level up. I would say that pain point goes away around level 50-60, but it's probably more simple to just add the trainers at every level. Higher level captains can just chuck them in the replicator. Maybe some blue or purple replicator rations could be added as well. It'll help new captains catch up and again, higher level captains won't benefit from it in a meaningful way.
Ya know what else would be cool? Adding an achievement for using universe chat. I don't recommend actually chatting there regularly, but why not reach out to the community? And get a blue citation for the Sisko you get for changing your name. And how about another blue citation for changing your avatar? Get that Sisko fully fused.
I think the biggest issue is that small and middle range players cannot afford to sit on honor and accumulate it to build up their crew whereas we larger players have many good legendaries and can wait. It would be good for TP to find ways to get more honor in low and middle range players.
That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?
Many smaller players are spending their honor on things higher lvl players do not, like training boosts, replicator rations, green and blue citations, etc. TP could give out a large amount of these to every mailbox. The high end players could not complain they were slighted because everyone got them but it would mainly only help low end players.
TP could also give a large amount of honor to new accounts when they are started which would hopefully bring in new players as well as encourage older players to start alt accounts.
TP could also eliminate the need to unlock cadet missions. That would help smaller players.
TP could also have contests that reward players but that has different tiers of rewards for player lvl. This would be hard to setup though and could make others angry if lower tiers had better rewards. It would need to be communicated ahead of time by TP why they were doing this to prevent much of the anger but not all. TP could give higher lvls rewards that they would like that would not help newer players much, perhaps some of the new currencies coming.
I started a new account around May. I can tell you that you're right about training boosts, and possibly replicator rations to a lesser extent. Honestly, the cadet thing is a drop in the bucket. I like it being as-is for its sense of achievement. The real thing though, is this addresses new accounts vs old accounts more than VIP0 vs VIP14. You did give me an idea, though. Giving out citations or beholds periodically would be more impactful to lower spenders.
I don't mean to be overly critical. I guess I need to understand what you mean my bigger vs smaller accounts. Is it newer vs older or low spender vs big spender?
By bigger and smaller accounts I mean captain lvl, high or low.
It seems your bigger goal then, is to help newer players catch up. I remember needing trainers. If I were devs, I think I would add 50-100 gold trainers to the loot when players level up. I would say that pain point goes away around level 50-60, but it's probably more simple to just add the trainers at every level. Higher level captains can just chuck them in the replicator. Maybe some blue or purple replicator rations could be added as well. It'll help new captains catch up and again, higher level captains won't benefit from it in a meaningful way.
Ya know what else would be cool? Adding an achievement for using universe chat. I don't recommend actually chatting there regularly, but why not reach out to the community? And get a blue citation for the Sisko you get for changing your name. And how about another blue citation for changing your avatar? Get that Sisko fully fused.
That would defeat the actual purpose of the sisko. He is there purely as an honor trap. Pure and simple.
Its a good suggestion.
Its important to realise why we want an honor sale.
With a pool of 1000 cards soon the chance to get a certain card which you need is extremely low. Much lower than when the system was created.
And the chance to get a card you do not need, even if legendary is much higher
If all card had the same chance to drop you would have a 1/200 chance with a pool of 200 cards, but only 1/1000 with. A pool of 1000 cards. And since you first must hot a leendary chance its much lower even
So at the moment citations are the only way
To star up those cards you need.
The chance to get a card from the pool has gone down soo much, but the price of a citation has stayed the same.
To rectify this there are 3 solutions.
Increase the chances of getting a "useful card by offering choices of different pools, increase the amount of older legendaries which can be obtained F2P.
Increase the availability of citations by either using them as rewards or at lower costs of f2p in game currencies.that is currently only done during the honor sale.
For new players the honor sale offers both new legendaries and citations. A chance to catch up a little with more experienced players For experienced players it still offers those citations PLUS a low chance of a good card they need, but at least more honor.
Offering them in LTOs is nice for paying players, but makes the game just P2W.
I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.
Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.
I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.
Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.
I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.
Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.
I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.
Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.
I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
Got to defend IceCat on this. IceCat was not saying that nothing should be done, just reminding people that one change in a game can affect other aspects of the game. Any changes have to be balanced. If the cost of citations is lowered too much players buy less dilithium which eats into TP’s profits. It would also widen the gulf between players as those that are high end players and have saved more honor would be able to widely expand their crew compared to those that could not. I definitely agree with you that honor debt is a real problem, but I think the solution lies more in making crew slots more attainable. Players would not then have to airlock as many crew while still having to strategize where they want to put their resources. For me a lot of the fun of the game is the strategy of it. If crew were too easy to acquire and immortalize the game would get quite boring.
I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.
Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.
I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.
Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.
I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
Got to defend IceCat on this. IceCat was not saying that nothing should be done, just reminding people that one change in a game can affect other aspects of the game. Any changes have to be balanced. If the cost of citations is lowered too much players buy less dilithium which eats into TP’s profits. It would also widen the gulf between players as those that are high end players and have saved more honor would be able to widely expand their crew compared to those that could not. I definitely agree with you that honor debt is a real problem, but I think the solution lies more in making crew slots more attainable. Players would not then have to airlock as many crew while still having to strategize where they want to put their resources. For me a lot of the fun of the game is the strategy of it. If crew were too easy to acquire and immortalize the game would get quite boring.
In response to your “crew slot availability” solution, can you elaborate?
Im curious as to how exactly having more crew (that will need more citations) helps my honor debt issue. As it stands, every new 1/5 that joins my ranks carries with it a debt of 200,000 honor. So, I am wondering what I am missing.
I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.
Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.
I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.
Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.
I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
Got to defend IceCat on this. IceCat was not saying that nothing should be done, just reminding people that one change in a game can affect other aspects of the game. Any changes have to be balanced. If the cost of citations is lowered too much players buy less dilithium which eats into TP’s profits. It would also widen the gulf between players as those that are high end players and have saved more honor would be able to widely expand their crew compared to those that could not. I definitely agree with you that honor debt is a real problem, but I think the solution lies more in making crew slots more attainable. Players would not then have to airlock as many crew while still having to strategize where they want to put their resources. For me a lot of the fun of the game is the strategy of it. If crew were too easy to acquire and immortalize the game would get quite boring.
In response to your “crew slot availability” solution, can you elaborate?
Im curious as to how exactly having more crew (that will need more citations) helps my honor debt issue. As it stands, every new 1/5 that joins my ranks carries with it a debt of 200,000 honor. So, I am wondering what I am missing.
If you have the crew slots to keep all of your 1/5’s you have the ability to get more stars for them in packs and portal pulls as well as if they ever appear in another event. You are correct that the honor debt would continue to increase and the more legendaries there are the less likely you are to get stars for the ones you need in packs and portal pulls. I admit that making crew slots easier to obtain is at best a patch, but for me the thing that really bothers me is not having lots of 1/5’s but when I have to airlock some of them due to lack of crew slots. 1/5’s are still helpful in events, 0/5’s because I had to airlock them for space are not.
I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.
Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.
I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.
Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.
I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
Got to defend IceCat on this. IceCat was not saying that nothing should be done, just reminding people that one change in a game can affect other aspects of the game. Any changes have to be balanced. If the cost of citations is lowered too much players buy less dilithium which eats into TP’s profits. It would also widen the gulf between players as those that are high end players and have saved more honor would be able to widely expand their crew compared to those that could not. I definitely agree with you that honor debt is a real problem, but I think the solution lies more in making crew slots more attainable. Players would not then have to airlock as many crew while still having to strategize where they want to put their resources. For me a lot of the fun of the game is the strategy of it. If crew were too easy to acquire and immortalize the game would get quite boring.
In response to your “crew slot availability” solution, can you elaborate?
Im curious as to how exactly having more crew (that will need more citations) helps my honor debt issue. As it stands, every new 1/5 that joins my ranks carries with it a debt of 200,000 honor. So, I am wondering what I am missing.
If you have the crew slots to keep all of your 1/5’s you have the ability to get more stars for them in packs and portal pulls as well as if they ever appear in another event. You are correct that the honor debt would continue to increase and the more legendaries there are the less likely you are to get stars for the ones you need in packs and portal pulls. I admit that making crew slots easier to obtain is at best a patch, but for me the thing that really bothers me is not having lots of 1/5’s but when I have to airlock some of them due to lack of crew slots. 1/5’s are still helpful in events, 0/5’s because I had to airlock them for space are not.
I see your point. Yeah it would help if crew slots were not as limiting of a factor as they are now. Especially for crew that are in portal already.
For the new crew that is not in portal, i was thinking about it a little more, and on average we get 1 or 2 new legendary crew a week, 1 from events and 1 from a six pack LTO. If we assume 6 months between crew release and being added to the portal, that means every 6 months there are ~26 crew that require citations purchased with honor once their pack offers/events end. This is kind of ignoring the 6 pack LTO new legendary crew, as sometimes the new crew is super rare rather than legendary, but still, 26 per 6 months is a low estimate.
So, even if we use those conservative figures, it would require 5,200,000 honor to immortalize all crew released in a 6 month period. (Obviously there are assumptions and exceptions here. For crew released in events, 25 people would have multiple copies. Its also possible that someone spends dilithium after obtaining the first copy of a new crew in order to get more copies and immortalize that way)
For the majority of people, 5 million honor is practically impossible to keep pace with on a rolling 6 month time frame. Im not suggesting that it should be possible, im just trying to point out that even with honor sales every 6 months, we cant keep up with the rolling out of new crew, let alone with any *edit* additional *edit* crew that drop from premium portal pulls.
Again, i really appreciate everyones input on this topic. I wont pretend that i have the solution, but i am completely confident about the severity of this honor debt issue and i sincerely hope that it gets the attention from the devs that it warrants.
I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.
Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.
I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.
Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.
I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
I'd like to make it clear that I am not being dismissive at all.
Nor am I disputing the fact that the issues of honour debt, and by extension, chroniton debt, are very real. I agree that something needs to be done. The concerns I was raising did not dispute that.
The problem is that changes (like those being suggested) often affect the meta game in serious and game breaking way. I've seen it many times in online, mobile, and collectable card games, just to name a few.
Take the time to evaluate how these changes will affect the rest of the game, in ways that might not seem related or clear at a quick glance. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to put the genie back in the bottle, after the fact.
Not once have I said that things should stay the same. In fact, I've often made suggestions or praised ideas by other players that could help this issue, and other issues like it.
All I'm asking is that we don't lose sight of the big picture.
I think your statements prove that there is a real issue of that. You've been so blinded by the one thing you're focusing on, that you totally missed the point.
In your response, you have already dismissed a new feature, that you don't even know about, as "guaranteed" not to help. Then, you accused me, and others like me, of advocating "to do nothing". I have never said anything of the sort.
Look, @Cpt_insano_2k1 , I get you apparently don't like me, based on the fact you've made personal attacks against me recently that were so bad Shan had to delete them. I'm not looking for your personal approval.
But if you are going to take issue with something I have said, please at least keep it factual. There is no excuse to twist my words any more than there was for the insults you got moderated for. Let's keep these discussions factual, respectful and on point.
I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.
Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.
I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.
Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.
I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
Got to defend IceCat on this. IceCat was not saying that nothing should be done, just reminding people that one change in a game can affect other aspects of the game. Any changes have to be balanced. If the cost of citations is lowered too much players buy less dilithium which eats into TP’s profits. It would also widen the gulf between players as those that are high end players and have saved more honor would be able to widely expand their crew compared to those that could not. I definitely agree with you that honor debt is a real problem, but I think the solution lies more in making crew slots more attainable. Players would not then have to airlock as many crew while still having to strategize where they want to put their resources. For me a lot of the fun of the game is the strategy of it. If crew were too easy to acquire and immortalize the game would get quite boring.
Thank you, for both taking the time to understand what I was saying and coming to my defense. It is most appreciated. 🖖
Comments
It seems your bigger goal then, is to help newer players catch up. I remember needing trainers. If I were devs, I think I would add 50-100 gold trainers to the loot when players level up. I would say that pain point goes away around level 50-60, but it's probably more simple to just add the trainers at every level. Higher level captains can just chuck them in the replicator. Maybe some blue or purple replicator rations could be added as well. It'll help new captains catch up and again, higher level captains won't benefit from it in a meaningful way.
Ya know what else would be cool? Adding an achievement for using universe chat. I don't recommend actually chatting there regularly, but why not reach out to the community? And get a blue citation for the Sisko you get for changing your name. And how about another blue citation for changing your avatar? Get that Sisko fully fused.
Its important to realise why we want an honor sale.
With a pool of 1000 cards soon the chance to get a certain card which you need is extremely low. Much lower than when the system was created.
And the chance to get a card you do not need, even if legendary is much higher
If all card had the same chance to drop you would have a 1/200 chance with a pool of 200 cards, but only 1/1000 with. A pool of 1000 cards. And since you first must hot a leendary chance its much lower even
So at the moment citations are the only way
To star up those cards you need.
The chance to get a card from the pool has gone down soo much, but the price of a citation has stayed the same.
To rectify this there are 3 solutions.
Increase the chances of getting a "useful card by offering choices of different pools, increase the amount of older legendaries which can be obtained F2P.
Increase the availability of citations by either using them as rewards or at lower costs of f2p in game currencies.that is currently only done during the honor sale.
For new players the honor sale offers both new legendaries and citations. A chance to catch up a little with more experienced players For experienced players it still offers those citations PLUS a low chance of a good card they need, but at least more honor.
Offering them in LTOs is nice for paying players, but makes the game just P2W.
While it is very true that any decision made is not going to please everyone, posts like yours are far too dismissive of the real problem.
The honor deficit in this game is very real, and very apparent on everyones roster. Even with honor sales of the recent past, we were limited to 10 citations and 10 begolds per day that could be purchased with honor. So, even with a 5 day run, you could purchase 50 citations (assuming you had 2 million honor clanking around).... and while 50 citations may sound like a lot, thats only enough to immortalize 12.5 crew members from the 1/5 level. Lets even assume that every begold gave a star to existing crew, effectively giving 100 citations.....thats only 25 legendaries immortalized from a pool of 600.
Also keep in mind that 2 million honor costs a LOT of real $$. I have been saving since the last honor sale, where i spent all of my honor. And with my spending habits i currently am no where near 2 million. As things are now, honor sales were the only way that players who spent moderately could keep up with the whales by selectively targeting a few specific crew to advance their rosters. Without discounted honor, the whales are the ones who can and do keep their crew cited up.
The “delicate balancing act” that you speak of is completely broken at the moment. While the new feature is rumored to help with availability of “some” legendaries, it is guaranteed that it will not assist with keeping up with the massive honor required to try immortalize the newer and more powerful crew.
I always get a kick out of it when players such as yourself cite examples like “balancing acts” or “impossible to make everyone happy” as being good reasons to do nothing. The problems associated with the honor debt that all rosters experience are very big problems, and at the moment, only people with very big wallets and loose spending habits can stay on top. You seem to not mind this. Which is fine, but i think it should be pointed out. While your comments really do nothing to further the discussion on how to resolve the honor debt problem, you at least bumped the thread, so thanks for that.
When I made this poll, I had hoped that everyone could kind of think about the honor issue and provide the dev’s with some feedback on how to deal with it, for the most part it has been successful in that regard.
I think we can all agree that the announced fix to the straight drops in portal packs being replaced with behold choices is a “long needed”, “long suggested” and “long awaited” feature. In fact, it took SO LONG to be implemented, that the fix offers little to no benefit for a lot of long term, real $$ spending players.
The honor debt in this game is an even BIGGER problem that also has been in need of a resolution or “tweek” for a very long time. The sooner they fix it, the more likely it is to help the majority of the playerbase.
Got to defend IceCat on this. IceCat was not saying that nothing should be done, just reminding people that one change in a game can affect other aspects of the game. Any changes have to be balanced. If the cost of citations is lowered too much players buy less dilithium which eats into TP’s profits. It would also widen the gulf between players as those that are high end players and have saved more honor would be able to widely expand their crew compared to those that could not. I definitely agree with you that honor debt is a real problem, but I think the solution lies more in making crew slots more attainable. Players would not then have to airlock as many crew while still having to strategize where they want to put their resources. For me a lot of the fun of the game is the strategy of it. If crew were too easy to acquire and immortalize the game would get quite boring.
In response to your “crew slot availability” solution, can you elaborate?
Im curious as to how exactly having more crew (that will need more citations) helps my honor debt issue. As it stands, every new 1/5 that joins my ranks carries with it a debt of 200,000 honor. So, I am wondering what I am missing.
If you have the crew slots to keep all of your 1/5’s you have the ability to get more stars for them in packs and portal pulls as well as if they ever appear in another event. You are correct that the honor debt would continue to increase and the more legendaries there are the less likely you are to get stars for the ones you need in packs and portal pulls. I admit that making crew slots easier to obtain is at best a patch, but for me the thing that really bothers me is not having lots of 1/5’s but when I have to airlock some of them due to lack of crew slots. 1/5’s are still helpful in events, 0/5’s because I had to airlock them for space are not.
I see your point. Yeah it would help if crew slots were not as limiting of a factor as they are now. Especially for crew that are in portal already.
For the new crew that is not in portal, i was thinking about it a little more, and on average we get 1 or 2 new legendary crew a week, 1 from events and 1 from a six pack LTO. If we assume 6 months between crew release and being added to the portal, that means every 6 months there are ~26 crew that require citations purchased with honor once their pack offers/events end. This is kind of ignoring the 6 pack LTO new legendary crew, as sometimes the new crew is super rare rather than legendary, but still, 26 per 6 months is a low estimate.
So, even if we use those conservative figures, it would require 5,200,000 honor to immortalize all crew released in a 6 month period. (Obviously there are assumptions and exceptions here. For crew released in events, 25 people would have multiple copies. Its also possible that someone spends dilithium after obtaining the first copy of a new crew in order to get more copies and immortalize that way)
For the majority of people, 5 million honor is practically impossible to keep pace with on a rolling 6 month time frame. Im not suggesting that it should be possible, im just trying to point out that even with honor sales every 6 months, we cant keep up with the rolling out of new crew, let alone with any *edit* additional *edit* crew that drop from premium portal pulls.
Again, i really appreciate everyones input on this topic. I wont pretend that i have the solution, but i am completely confident about the severity of this honor debt issue and i sincerely hope that it gets the attention from the devs that it warrants.
I'd like to make it clear that I am not being dismissive at all.
Nor am I disputing the fact that the issues of honour debt, and by extension, chroniton debt, are very real. I agree that something needs to be done. The concerns I was raising did not dispute that.
The problem is that changes (like those being suggested) often affect the meta game in serious and game breaking way. I've seen it many times in online, mobile, and collectable card games, just to name a few.
Take the time to evaluate how these changes will affect the rest of the game, in ways that might not seem related or clear at a quick glance. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to put the genie back in the bottle, after the fact.
Not once have I said that things should stay the same. In fact, I've often made suggestions or praised ideas by other players that could help this issue, and other issues like it.
All I'm asking is that we don't lose sight of the big picture.
I think your statements prove that there is a real issue of that. You've been so blinded by the one thing you're focusing on, that you totally missed the point.
In your response, you have already dismissed a new feature, that you don't even know about, as "guaranteed" not to help. Then, you accused me, and others like me, of advocating "to do nothing". I have never said anything of the sort.
Look, @Cpt_insano_2k1 , I get you apparently don't like me, based on the fact you've made personal attacks against me recently that were so bad Shan had to delete them. I'm not looking for your personal approval.
But if you are going to take issue with something I have said, please at least keep it factual. There is no excuse to twist my words any more than there was for the insults you got moderated for. Let's keep these discussions factual, respectful and on point.
Thank you, for both taking the time to understand what I was saying and coming to my defense. It is most appreciated. 🖖