Honor sale remedy

Cpt_insano_2k1

it seems to me that an easy remedy to this situation is to eliminate honor sales entirely.

This is a petition to permanently alter the honor hall by bundling begolds with legendary citations as a “package buy”.

I would recommend keeping the price at 50,000 honor, but if you have other ideas include them below.

Basically, this idea stems from the perspective that Ben offered yesterday about not wanting there to be a “sale” calendar or predictability, but also wanting players to spend resources more consistently with less hoarding.

So, I say lets eliminate the reason for hoarding and do a modest adjustment to honor hall prices, and commit to eliminating honor sales (as we have seen them in the past) forever.

Otherwise people will never stop hoarding and hoping for an honor sale, then becoming disgruntled when there isnt one.

Feel free to choose other, but please be detailed with your alternative proposal and keep in mind the reasons Ben/wrg dosnt like scheduled honor sales, and try to find a compromise.

Thanks!

robownage

I mean...there is probably a middle ground between those two options?

Cpt_insano_2k1

robownage wrote: »

I mean...there is probably a middle ground between those two options?

Ok, there are three options though, so feel free to pick option 3 “other” and suggest an alternative.

Webberoni

Have a set schedule for honor sales, even if it only happens once a year.

Yes, many veteran players will stockpile massive amounts of honor. However, doing so will be at the opportunity cost of foregoing an entire year's worth of value derived from using honor throughout the year to improve your crew via citations and/or beGolds.

[10F]risky Dingo

Ben said there will be another sale, they just don't have one planned. Personally, I don't mind waiting, it just means I'll have more honor when they finally do.

Even if they where to make the change, as @Cpt_insano_2k1 suggests, it would mean that a lot of players "hoard" their honor for portal updates; similar to what a lot of players do with premium pulls.

While I would *absolutely* love a roadmap, from WRG, with things like sale dates (even if it means that they are wrong from time to time), I still prefer having an honor sale as opposed to not having it.

(A) Traveling Man

I would prefer it if they were never going to have an honor sale that they announce that - because otherwise, the people who do save will always be rewarded over those that don't.

I don't know if "Remedy" is the best word here though. Them deciding to wait to have an honor sale later isn't a harm they are inflicting. It was my choice to save.

calsnowskier

If they are going to make the honor hall prices (and the regular dil store prices) so high in order to make their LTOs and sales more attractive, they have to understand that the opposite view is created as well (the LTO and sale prices are viewed as the norm and the regular prices are scoffed at).

A cite costs 50k honor in the honor hall. An average premium 10x will give you approx 800 honor. That means one cite will be earned after about 63 packs. Going off the generally accepted $1 per pack price (I dont subscribe to that value, but I know that value is out there), that means a cite at regular price is $63. Sorry, but that is ridiculous.

Packaging a cite and a begold at 50K and announcing there will NEVER be another honor sale is the only way to fix it, imho. That is still too expensive, imho, but at least that price kinda lines up with the DYC offer. However, in order to get players to actually spend in the honor hall again would require that the honor sales truly are eliminated for good. Saying they are eliminated, then having one would just irritate the community further.

MiT Sanoa

Wasn't the last honor sale 40k honor incl. a behold? 50k is way too much still, even with a behold.

(HGH)Apollo

Seems like a biased poll with the wording of it. We know there will be another honor sale at some point, Ben has said so. For those that want to wait they can. For those that don’t they can just play knowing that Ben said no honor sale in January or February and play accordingly. I do not see any reason to change from the current system. People can just play or long term manage what they want to do. That is good. I wouldn’t mind the price of citations being lowered but I do not want honor sales removed from the game, they are fun.

ChaosChild

They're never going to eliminate honor sales, because they make money from selling honor during the sales. The devs have said that they want people to stop hoarding, but that's not going to happen either.

Bound2Fate

We also need to see what this new feature will be. Ben implied that it would make getting crew easier. That may change our approach to, or need of, honor sales.

[DC] Picard Loves Reds

I could be wrong, but I believe the last honor sale had a cap. From what I recall, the begold was 1x per day @10k honor and the citation+begold was 10x per day @40k. With the 7 day run, it worked out to a 2.8 million honor spending cap (at least for the 40k offer.)
WRG could post a statement along the lines of, "Going forward, our Honor Sales will happen intermittenly, typically run for 7 days and will have a daily maximum spend of x honor/day."
What should the cap be? It should be high enough to make the sale enjoyable, while being low enough that the high end hoarders will spend regularly. A sale every 6-12 months with a cap of 4-6 months of "active" player daily honor accumulation would seem to fit the bill. They already cap the slot sales everytime by only adding a small number of additional tiers, so there is a precedent in place.
Ideally, an honor sale would appear 2-4 weeks after every portal update, so we could chase/add cites to newly added crew that begin to drop.

Calhoun

(A) Traveling Man wrote: »

I don't know if "Remedy" is the best word here though. Them deciding to wait to have an honor sale later isn't a harm they are inflicting. It was my choice to save.

I expect "remedy" is used in the context of the deeper honour debt problem which the sale partly addressed. There would be less demand for the sale if the issue wasn't so significant in the first place.

Thorozar

Normal costs are way too high. The sale prices should be normal, as should crew slots (rather this be eliminated though).

Prime Lorca

I would hold one more sale and announce that it will be the last of its kind. I would shift the focus from the citations to the beholds for future honor sales. As mentioned above, I would hold them 2-4 weeks after a portal update (usually twice a year). I would lower the cost of a citation in the honor hall to 40k or 45k permanently. I would put the cost of a behold in the honor hall 5k lower than a behold, as it is now.

For the sale, I would make a behold cost 10k, then let players pull three per day. This would put the spending limit at 210k honor. Past that, it wouldn't be worth hoarding. The pool is so vast that 21 beholds probably won't change a roster too drastically. And players love beholds. They love to ponder them and discuss them with others, here and with their fleets. It allows players to add stars at a discount or get a long desired crew (or laugh at the total crap choice they had to make). Personally, I think beholds are kind of the lifeblood of the game. Why not capitalize on that?

Dirk Gunderson

I’d post pretty much what I commented with in the other topic: make sales regular, frequent, and limit the spending cap. There are other good ideas, like what Lorca posted about focusing more on beholds than citations, but any idea that drastically reworks the in-game valuation of citations, beholds, or straight crew drops on a continuous basis is probably never going to happen...taking the sale price for a behold and making it the every day price is a non-starter from the developer’s point of view.

Veterinary Phlox

I like the idea of having only one more sale, but afterward lowering the cost of items in the honor hall.

It's not a flashy solutions, but it is simple.

(HGH)Apollo

I think the biggest issue is that small and middle range players cannot afford to sit on honor and accumulate it to build up their crew whereas we larger players have many good legendaries and can wait. It would be good for TP to find ways to get more honor in low and middle range players.

Prime Lorca

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is that small and middle range players cannot afford to sit on honor and accumulate it to build up their crew whereas we larger players have many good legendaries and can wait. It would be good for TP to find ways to get more honor in low and middle range players.

That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?

OU Capt. James

I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.

Spongeborg Squareship

Attitudes to this will vary on the level of the player. I can make mpre honour than a player half my level(82) as i have more immortal crew so will consequently airlock far more super rare and lower crew. To.give the lower level players a better chance of saving some honour for a sale and to not upset the higher levels and spenders, how about if you get 200 honour for airlocking a super rare crew, you also.get 200 honour when you immortalise them. That way higher levels get it because they airlock more and lower levels get it because they need to immortalise more.
Or just leave well enough alone. I'm.happy with that.

Kanon

Well, if there is a sale calendar, let's say once a year, and the maximum amount you can spend in that sale is set, let's say 100k honor, there wouldn't be reason to stockpile more than 100k a year (which is way below the normal earning)

Prof. KakkoiiLady

Given there are two sometimes 3 new legends a week.... citations should be 10k honour. Gold beholds should be 8k. Unless they revamp voyages to get older golds and put more golds in storylines to achieve them. Maybe make older missions refresh each month so we have to complete them again with new rewards. It will make the game more interactive.

(HGH)Apollo

Prime Lorca [10FH] wrote: »

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is that small and middle range players cannot afford to sit on honor and accumulate it to build up their crew whereas we larger players have many good legendaries and can wait. It would be good for TP to find ways to get more honor in low and middle range players.

That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?

Many smaller players are spending their honor on things higher lvl players do not, like training boosts, replicator rations, green and blue citations, etc. TP could give out a large amount of these to every mailbox. The high end players could not complain they were slighted because everyone got them but it would mainly only help low end players.

TP could also give a large amount of honor to new accounts when they are started which would hopefully bring in new players as well as encourage older players to start alt accounts.

TP could also eliminate the need to unlock cadet missions. That would help smaller players.

TP could also have contests that reward players but that has different tiers of rewards for player lvl. This would be hard to setup though and could make others angry if lower tiers had better rewards. It would need to be communicated ahead of time by TP why they were doing this to prevent much of the anger but not all. TP could give higher lvls rewards that they would like that would not help newer players much, perhaps some of the new currencies coming.

Sky Cap 18

The honor sales are too good for their own good. 40k for a bundle that would usually cost 95k is a strong incentive to hoard, even if it means hoarding for the better part of a year. They are so much fun that I want them to keep happening, but if they keep happening I'm going to keep hoarding, simple as that.

The first honor sale in this game was much more modest, I think it was 27k for a begold and 4k for a premium 10-pack. That's something that you might treat yourself to if you happen to have the honor, but you won't save for and you won't kick yourself if you bought a full-price cite the week before.

Prime Lorca

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

Prime Lorca [10FH] wrote: »

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is that small and middle range players cannot afford to sit on honor and accumulate it to build up their crew whereas we larger players have many good legendaries and can wait. It would be good for TP to find ways to get more honor in low and middle range players.

That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?

Many smaller players are spending their honor on things higher lvl players do not, like training boosts, replicator rations, green and blue citations, etc. TP could give out a large amount of these to every mailbox. The high end players could not complain they were slighted because everyone got them but it would mainly only help low end players.

TP could also give a large amount of honor to new accounts when they are started which would hopefully bring in new players as well as encourage older players to start alt accounts.

TP could also eliminate the need to unlock cadet missions. That would help smaller players.

TP could also have contests that reward players but that has different tiers of rewards for player lvl. This would be hard to setup though and could make others angry if lower tiers had better rewards. It would need to be communicated ahead of time by TP why they were doing this to prevent much of the anger but not all. TP could give higher lvls rewards that they would like that would not help newer players much, perhaps some of the new currencies coming.

I started a new account around May. I can tell you that you're right about training boosts, and possibly replicator rations to a lesser extent. Honestly, the cadet thing is a drop in the bucket. I like it being as-is for its sense of achievement. The real thing though, is this addresses new accounts vs old accounts more than VIP0 vs VIP14. You did give me an idea, though. Giving out citations or beholds periodically would be more impactful to lower spenders.

I don't mean to be overly critical. I guess I need to understand what you mean my bigger vs smaller accounts. Is it newer vs older or low spender vs big spender?

dext74

Prime Lorca [10FH] wrote: »

That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?

How about daily tasks and their accompanying rewards that are different per player levels. IE, maybe the tasks/rewards are tiers - players level 1-20 get this set, 21-40 get this.

Lower level players can get more credits and trainers, and higher level players can receive less of those things-- and etc. Itd be an interesting balancing issue.

And then the tasks themselves could be different based on crew depth and ability. Take something like the gauntlet rounds temp achievement -- make it play 10 rounds a day for lower level players but for upper level player task tiers it becomes WIN 10 rounds.

Prime Lorca

dext74 wrote: »

Prime Lorca [10FH] wrote: »

That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?

How about daily tasks and their accompanying rewards that are different per player levels. IE, maybe the tasks/rewards are tiers - players level 1-20 get this set, 21-40 get this.

Lower level players can get more credits and trainers, and higher level players can receive less of those things-- and etc. Itd be an interesting balancing issue.

And then the tasks themselves could be different based on crew depth and ability. Take something like the gauntlet rounds temp achievement -- make it play 10 rounds a day for lower level players but for upper level player task tiers it becomes WIN 10 rounds.

I like those concepts for helping newer players catch up and incentivizing them to continue playing.

(HGH)Apollo

Prime Lorca [10FH] wrote: »

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

Prime Lorca [10FH] wrote: »

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is that small and middle range players cannot afford to sit on honor and accumulate it to build up their crew whereas we larger players have many good legendaries and can wait. It would be good for TP to find ways to get more honor in low and middle range players.

That is an interesting concept. The only way I see that working would be to give more honor for dailies or something like that. Which would also benefit higher spenders, just not as much proportionately as it would lower spenders. Can you think of another way to do this without offending the spenders?

Many smaller players are spending their honor on things higher lvl players do not, like training boosts, replicator rations, green and blue citations, etc. TP could give out a large amount of these to every mailbox. The high end players could not complain they were slighted because everyone got them but it would mainly only help low end players.

TP could also give a large amount of honor to new accounts when they are started which would hopefully bring in new players as well as encourage older players to start alt accounts.

TP could also eliminate the need to unlock cadet missions. That would help smaller players.

TP could also have contests that reward players but that has different tiers of rewards for player lvl. This would be hard to setup though and could make others angry if lower tiers had better rewards. It would need to be communicated ahead of time by TP why they were doing this to prevent much of the anger but not all. TP could give higher lvls rewards that they would like that would not help newer players much, perhaps some of the new currencies coming.

I started a new account around May. I can tell you that you're right about training boosts, and possibly replicator rations to a lesser extent. Honestly, the cadet thing is a drop in the bucket. I like it being as-is for its sense of achievement. The real thing though, is this addresses new accounts vs old accounts more than VIP0 vs VIP14. You did give me an idea, though. Giving out citations or beholds periodically would be more impactful to lower spenders.

I don't mean to be overly critical. I guess I need to understand what you mean my bigger vs smaller accounts. Is it newer vs older or low spender vs big spender?

By bigger and smaller accounts I mean captain lvl, high or low.

(A) Traveling Man

Citations in general should be far cheaper - 10-20k honor. There are almost 1k crew, for crying out loud.

IceCat

OU Capt. James wrote: »

I'm happy with the suggestion and i know we're getting more then at present for 50k honour but if this is the way forward can it not be lower, 45k should be the highest possibility but why not 25k......it can be a belated Christmas present.

Respectfully, I think therein lies a big part of the problem. Someone suggests a 10% reduction in cost and then people want to ask for it to be 50%.

I fear that it doesn't matter what is done, there will be someone who would like it to be more and will be unhappy.

Even a 10% decrease has wide ranging implications on the game. Cutting it in half would have massive implications on everything from crew slots to power balance to citations and much more.

I think sometimes what gets lost is that the meta game is a complicated balancing act, and one change can have broad impacts on the entire ecosystem.