I mentioned replacing the hull bonus with an attack bonus. That would make the featured ships more viable. I also would like to get more variety there.
Absolutely this!
Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
Let's see... "I was negative before it was cool," and "if you don't like something, then don't read it." Never mind the fact you don't know if you will like something until you read it. And if you think that's an oversimplification, it's because I took your advice and stopped reading right there.
There's legitimate reasons to complain. There's flaws in the game that most of us would love to see addressed. None of that is being discussed at this point. If it is, it's not being done in a manner that even resembles productive. I'll try to to get the thread back on track...
Game developers have a line to walk in terms of getting their fan base excited for a new feature and over-hyping it in a way that sets player expectations too high. How would you communicate a new feature? Where do you think is the right balance for such communication?
THIS! 100% THIS.
Those of us who refuse to pile onto the negativity bandwagon aren't doing it because we think this game is perfect. It's because it doesn't address the issues or help the situation in any way.
I think the most frustrating part is that a lot (not all, so there's no room for misinterpretation) of those complaining do nothing to indicate what would make them happy or what specific changes they would make.
Some seem hellbent on proving that absolutely nothing would ever satisfy them. I wish more people would make balanced, constructive critiques, and less would just shovel piles of unhelpful 💩 onto the pile.
Some people seem to make a sport of literally saying absolutely nothing constructive or anything that they actually do like about this game. I can name probably a couple handful of users who have never once said anything that wasn't entirely negative. I have no idea why those people are still playing, let alone on these forums.
If you were running this game, what would be the biggest issue you have and how would you specifically address it, without either:
• breaking the game
• killing the revenue streams that enable it to continue running
To those of you making realistic suggestions, to this question, and others like it, I applaud you. To those of you who are just heaping scorn without any beneficial input, I have one question: why are you still playing?
The clearest way to respond to this post, which blatantly bashes down any constructive, responsive, or offended criticisms of this game is to point out a couple of things that you seem to be taking for granted:
Your first four paragraphs, yes, paragraphs, indicate that you are essentially offended that anyone would come to these forums with criticisms of the game that don’t meet your criterium for being relevant. Thats pretty cute, icecat. Instead of delving into a 10,000 word Q and A about your opinion of what is and what isn’t a valid criticism, ill just ask you a couple of questions:
1: what do you expect?
This game has many tens of thousands of players......this forum has many dozens of posters. When things are steady, theres no negativity. When there are problems, the fanbase shows Up in force. Lately, there have been more problems than usual. So, more criticisms arrive. Just because someone dosnt know the solution to adira gate, or what the proper community reward thresholds during an anniversary event should be, does NOT make their opinion irrelevant.
2. Why, is there ANY negativity in the forum?
Look at the recent past. The devs have SCREWED UP A LOT. Not just simple stuff, but big stuff. Are you really surprised that the false advertising, missed targets and general misleading of player expectations had resulted in people that are upset?
3. How are you maintaining balance?
I see you talk about having a balanced perspective a lot. Talk. What i see you DO is a lot of circular logic and straw-manning of people who bring legitimate concerns or complaints to this forum. I have yet to see you offer any legitimate thought or perspective on one or ANY (past 12 months) of the backlog of controversial decisions the devs have made. These are not blown out of proportion. These are precedent setting issues, and the voices of those who came to these forums to speak out on them is what has helped to represent not only the people who don’t come to these forums, but at times it has come down to speaking out for what is ethical.
4. Why are YOU still on these forums?
These forums are the most direct line that gamers have to provide the developers of game feedback. Straight up, unfiltered feedback. Why do you feel like your job is to be the goal tender? Why do you feel like you are justified to decide whats valid or invalid feedback? Why does anyone need YOUR opinion or approval?
Why dont you just set up a discord channel and call it “the white knights”? Invite your buddies. See how boring that is?
5. Have you stopped to ask “where is the negativity coming from?”
In your haste to jump on the side of the line thats “positivity only” or “mr. balanced perspective”....have you stopped to ask why so many people are getting riled up? Are you really so pompous to believe that the masses of people showing up are somehow “stupid” because they dont sing tp/wrg praise or vent frustrations the way you think that they should?
@Cpt_insano_2k1
Not sure what part of "I have no wish to engage with you" was hard to understand. I've washed my hands of you after the abuse you threw my way, repeatedly.
I've addressed pretty much every you just asked, repeatedly in some cases, and it didn't mean a thing, so I won't waste my time again.
After today's SNAFU, drop expectations from "mediocre" to "abysmal"......
Now I’m worried about the overall usefulness of the feature and the roll out. It’s like they’ve taken the worst features of DB and added new bad traits.
After today's SNAFU, drop expectations from "mediocre" to "abysmal"......
Now I’m worried about the overall usefulness of the feature and the roll out. It’s like they’ve taken the worst features of DB and added new bad traits.
Let's not forget "Players shouldn't "hoard" resources", followed quickly by a Dabo Event that uses 10,000,000+ Credits a day to clear the Wheel.........
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
After today's SNAFU, drop expectations from "mediocre" to "abysmal"......
Now I’m worried about the overall usefulness of the feature and the roll out. It’s like they’ve taken the worst features of DB and added new bad traits.
Let's not forget "Players shouldn't "hoard" resources", followed quickly by a Dabo Event that uses 10,000,000+ Credits a day to clear the Wheel.........
Yeah.....so, logically the only thing i can assume is that The new feature must somehow utilize credits. wrg/tp probably did a query and found that a small fraction of the players had a tremendous amount of credits stashed, and wanting to level the playing field, they made a dabo “sale” using credits as the currency to try and eliminate those hoards and try to make it more even for the new feature.
These forums are the most direct line that gamers have to provide the developers of game feedback. Straight up, unfiltered feedback. Why do you feel like your job is to be the goal tender? Why do you feel like you are justified to decide whats valid or invalid feedback? Why does anyone need YOUR opinion or approval?
Why dont you just set up a discord channel and call it “the white knights”? Invite your buddies. See how boring that is?
Way ahead of you, buddy.
@IceCat is not a member yet. He has some growing to do. As I said to him in a PM, derailing a conversation with bickering after it was rerouted back to productive conversation is not the way of the White Knight.
I hope this is a joke because this looks to me like you're even gatekeeping gatekeeping!
I'm just going to address a few comments here because I've just read the whole thread after not looking here for a few days.
1) I think that I have tried to provide a clear idea of what I think is 'best practice' in keeping people engaged, ie a healthy level of power creep and constant feature development and iteration.
2) Managing expectations is an extremely hard thing to do, but the safest way to approach it is to be honest and build up a relationship of trust with your community. This can be harder to do if you don't trust yourself to deliver (ie you're aware of internal complications that you can't talk about meaningfully). You should however still try even if that's about managing expectations downward.
3) TP is in a legacy situation where they are left dealing with decisions made by previous ownership. Last years sales were a last hurrah from DB that unfortunately for TP altered the expectations of players going forward. They have left it far too late to try and reverse those expectations so they should just roll with it.
4) Negativity on the forums is like you getting a pain in your arm. It might be nothing, but if it's persistent you should go and get it checked. The White Knights are that part of your brain telling you it'll be ok, you don't need to do anything serious about it. What we are witnessing is two fold. The pain is getting more intense, more people are voicing negative opinions and indeed previous 'white knights' have joined the chorus, and some of those negative comments have just gone away like a dead nerve. My hope is that they can be revived when the right feature comes along, but it's a lot harder to get people back than it is to keep them here. Those who wish for positivity are trying to treat the pain rather than the cause of the pain. If the game had less serious problems then there wouldn't be so many people who believe that TP are on the wrong path.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
6) That sounder footing is unquestionably new features that use our crew on a regular basis. We're about to get one (hopefully that uses our crew). What I would like from TP right now is a sense that they agree with this. And if they don't, why they don't. I guess what I come here for is reassurance, and in the absence of TP coming out and saying 'we agree with Thurthorad', I'll take it from other players saying the same thing and hope that they are paying attention to us.
7) As I said in the very first post in this thread, we can't judge the game on this next feature. Hopefully it will be great, but so far I am a little skeptical because I have yet to hear anything related to what our crew will 'do' in this new feature. Regardless, I am encouraged because it is something new and that's a change in direction for the game that has me excited.
After today's SNAFU, drop expectations from "mediocre" to "abysmal"......
Now I’m worried about the overall usefulness of the feature and the roll out. It’s like they’ve taken the worst features of DB and added new bad traits.
Let's not forget "Players shouldn't "hoard" resources", followed quickly by a Dabo Event that uses 10,000,000+ Credits a day to clear the Wheel.........
Yeah.....so, logically the only thing i can assume is that The new feature must somehow utilize credits. wrg/tp probably did a query and found that a small fraction of the players had a tremendous amount of credits stashed, and wanting to level the playing field, they made a dabo “sale” using credits as the currency to try and eliminate those hoards and try to make it more even for the new feature.
Or, this is just another instance of hypocrisy.
More likely, we will need a bunch of Credits for the new feature, and this helps "monetize" it. Since Credits can be bought for the in-game currency that they sell for cashy folding money.......
💵💲💵💲💵
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Yeah.....so, logically the only thing i can assume is that The new feature must somehow utilize credits. wrg/tp probably did a query and found that a small fraction of the players had a tremendous amount of credits stashed, and wanting to level the playing field, they made a dabo “sale” using credits as the currency to try and eliminate those hoards and try to make it more even for the new feature.
I belive you have hit the nail on the head - although my cynicall self says its not to level the playing field as much as it is to drive $$ sales.
timing is nteresting....
- dont hoard
- lets get you to clear the dabo board using 10M credt a day for 7 days
- if you run out, there is a skirmish, so use chrons to generate credits and claer that out as well
- lets launch a new feature to help get crew that uses two new curriences...
I hope this is a joke because this looks to me like you're even gatekeeping gatekeeping!
I'm just going to address a few comments here because I've just read the whole thread after not looking here for a few days.
1) I think that I have tried to provide a clear idea of what I think is 'best practice' in keeping people engaged, ie a healthy level of power creep and constant feature development and iteration.
2) Managing expectations is an extremely hard thing to do, but the safest way to approach it is to be honest and build up a relationship of trust with your community. This can be harder to do if you don't trust yourself to deliver (ie you're aware of internal complications that you can't talk about meaningfully). You should however still try even if that's about managing expectations downward.
3) TP is in a legacy situation where they are left dealing with decisions made by previous ownership. Last years sales were a last hurrah from DB that unfortunately for TP altered the expectations of players going forward. They have left it far too late to try and reverse those expectations so they should just roll with it.
4) Negativity on the forums is like you getting a pain in your arm. It might be nothing, but if it's persistent you should go and get it checked. The White Knights are that part of your brain telling you it'll be ok, you don't need to do anything serious about it. What we are witnessing is two fold. The pain is getting more intense, more people are voicing negative opinions and indeed previous 'white knights' have joined the chorus, and some of those negative comments have just gone away like a dead nerve. My hope is that they can be revived when the right feature comes along, but it's a lot harder to get people back than it is to keep them here. Those who wish for positivity are trying to treat the pain rather than the cause of the pain. If the game had less serious problems then there wouldn't be so many people who believe that TP are on the wrong path.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
6) That sounder footing is unquestionably new features that use our crew on a regular basis. We're about to get one (hopefully that uses our crew). What I would like from TP right now is a sense that they agree with this. And if they don't, why they don't. I guess what I come here for is reassurance, and in the absence of TP coming out and saying 'we agree with Thurthorad', I'll take it from other players saying the same thing and hope that they are paying attention to us.
7) As I said in the very first post in this thread, we can't judge the game on this next feature. Hopefully it will be great, but so far I am a little skeptical because I have yet to hear anything related to what our crew will 'do' in this new feature. Regardless, I am encouraged because it is something new and that's a change in direction for the game that has me excited.
This is a far less snarky version of my sentiments. Right now a good chunk of the playerbase is not happy with TP’s stewardship of Timelines (the reasons are varied, but all are seemingly based in existing flaws in the game not being addressed, the lack of new content, a lack of communication, or a combination of all three). We want to see a sign that someone in TP (above Shan and Ben’s level) is actually listening or to be more blunt, actually cares, about anything more than getting money from players. When you feel ignored, you lash out.
If TP wants to minimize the negativity, they should say that they’re listening and that they’re working on plans beyond a single new feature. TP should improve communication with the playerbase, regularly having its own discussions with the community. And TP should become more professional in its operations. If a feature is going live at a set time, make it happen at that time and communicate what’s going to happen well in advance of it going live (at least a day for things like the dabo sale). Ideally, TP would have the staff to do this (I suspect it does not.)
I haven't read every post about the possible new feature, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. I think on the Timelines Talks where Ben was talking about the new feature, he said something about the host who currently do lots of spread sheets will need to do more after the new feature. So I'm doubting it is a Marketplace. And it give a little boost to the theory that it will involve something for our crew to DO, instead of just getting crew, because how they function in the new feature might need more Spreadsheeting...
I haven't read every post about the possible new feature, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. I think on the Timelines Talks where Ben was talking about the new feature, he said something about the host who currently do lots of spread sheets will need to do more after the new feature. So I'm doubting it is a Marketplace. And it give a little boost to the theory that it will involve something for our crew to DO, instead of just getting crew, because how they function in the new feature might need more Spreadsheeting...
Oy, more spreadsheets? ::heavy sigh::
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
I hope this is a joke because this looks to me like you're even gatekeeping gatekeeping!
I'm just going to address a few comments here because I've just read the whole thread after not looking here for a few days.
1) I think that I have tried to provide a clear idea of what I think is 'best practice' in keeping people engaged, ie a healthy level of power creep and constant feature development and iteration.
2) Managing expectations is an extremely hard thing to do, but the safest way to approach it is to be honest and build up a relationship of trust with your community. This can be harder to do if you don't trust yourself to deliver (ie you're aware of internal complications that you can't talk about meaningfully). You should however still try even if that's about managing expectations downward.
3) TP is in a legacy situation where they are left dealing with decisions made by previous ownership. Last years sales were a last hurrah from DB that unfortunately for TP altered the expectations of players going forward. They have left it far too late to try and reverse those expectations so they should just roll with it.
4) Negativity on the forums is like you getting a pain in your arm. It might be nothing, but if it's persistent you should go and get it checked. The White Knights are that part of your brain telling you it'll be ok, you don't need to do anything serious about it. What we are witnessing is two fold. The pain is getting more intense, more people are voicing negative opinions and indeed previous 'white knights' have joined the chorus, and some of those negative comments have just gone away like a dead nerve. My hope is that they can be revived when the right feature comes along, but it's a lot harder to get people back than it is to keep them here. Those who wish for positivity are trying to treat the pain rather than the cause of the pain. If the game had less serious problems then there wouldn't be so many people who believe that TP are on the wrong path.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
6) That sounder footing is unquestionably new features that use our crew on a regular basis. We're about to get one (hopefully that uses our crew). What I would like from TP right now is a sense that they agree with this. And if they don't, why they don't. I guess what I come here for is reassurance, and in the absence of TP coming out and saying 'we agree with Thurthorad', I'll take it from other players saying the same thing and hope that they are paying attention to us.
7) As I said in the very first post in this thread, we can't judge the game on this next feature. Hopefully it will be great, but so far I am a little skeptical because I have yet to hear anything related to what our crew will 'do' in this new feature. Regardless, I am encouraged because it is something new and that's a change in direction for the game that has me excited.
1) You have. It was well thought out and reasonable.
2) Agreed. It is difficult and there is room for improvement.
3) Again I agree. Several options have been laid out in other threads.
4) I could play your game and counter that negativity is a cancer that kills civil conversation if left untreated. But then we're both being hyperbolic at that point. There's nothing wrong with criticism. Fair is fair, after all. If there's a pain point or a broken mechanic, this is the place to talk about it. But being a jerk about it - the actual negativity - is unproductive and stifles conversation. Devs aren't going to take criticism seriously if it's coming from abusive players. Your posts have been decidedly reasonable. Others would do well to lay out their criticism in the same manner.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
6) I also hope they are paying attention. And the less attention that is required for snipping on the forum, the more time they have to read other posts.
7) Pretty sure I agreed with that earlier. I still do, for the record.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
The main thing that feels antagonistic right now is the fight over expectations. Instead of being plain spoken and discussing their approach to honor sales etc, they are choosing to just beat expectations down with a fairly no compromise approach. I don't really have an oar in this fight myself, I genuinely don't need an honor sale, but I know a lot of people who are feeling aggrieved about it. If they aren't going to have one soon, they should say when they are going to have one and explain their thinking on the timing. If they believe that the honor sales were a mistake (they were), then they should say that we are doing one last sale and then that's it, you won't gain any future benefit from hoarding.
Any other response than this is just shenanigans and is intended to get players second guessing themselves. This is a recipe for regret formation. It's just bad faith. This is not new and in many ways DB/TP have learned to be better over the years. They do have habitual LTOs and regular weekly deals that can be depended on, which is great. They need to tackle the honor sale debacle head on and not just mess with peoples emotions.
I also applaud them for leaving deals up for longer and having a nice variety in them. One of the things that people were upset about recently was the lack of cheaper deals over the anniversary. That feels antagonistic too.
As an aside, another constantly recurring issue is the portal update. Again, they play silly buggers with it. Again, I don't care myself because I think the portal is so diluted now that premium packs aren't worth 10c each, but I know it drives other players insane. There's no need for it. They should treat the players much better than they do.
I can’t add much to Thurthorad’s post except that TP is hinting that this new feature will be amazing. TP seems to have a habit of over promising and under delivering (Convergence Day, the Event Hub), which is annoying to many.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
The main thing that feels antagonistic right now is the fight over expectations. Instead of being plain spoken and discussing their approach to honor sales etc, they are choosing to just beat expectations down with a fairly no compromise approach. I don't really have an oar in this fight myself, I genuinely don't need an honor sale, but I know a lot of people who are feeling aggrieved about it. If they aren't going to have one soon, they should say when they are going to have one and explain their thinking on the timing. If they believe that the honor sales were a mistake (they were), then they should say that we are doing one last sale and then that's it, you won't gain any future benefit from hoarding.
Any other response than this is just shenanigans and is intended to get players second guessing themselves. This is a recipe for regret formation. It's just bad faith. This is not new and in many ways DB/TP have learned to be better over the years. They do have habitual LTOs and regular weekly deals that can be depended on, which is great. They need to tackle the honor sale debacle head on and not just mess with peoples emotions.
I also applaud them for leaving deals up for longer and having a nice variety in them. One of the things that people were upset about recently was the lack of cheaper deals over the anniversary. That feels antagonistic too.
As an aside, another constantly recurring issue is the portal update. Again, they play silly buggers with it. Again, I don't care myself because I think the portal is so diluted now that premium packs aren't worth 10c each, but I know it drives other players insane. There's no need for it. They should treat the players much better than they do.
I have a more generous take on the honor sale. WRG_Ben said we wouldn't have that honor sale as part of Convergence Day. That helped with expectations, though it would have been better to hear earlier. He'll be back soon with that Q1 feature. It may become obvious or he may explain why the honor sale will be later. I'm willing to wait on that one.
I can't help but wonder if Shan told Ben how many times that comment about not hoarding honor has been mentioned. In a way, I could see that becoming an inside joke at the office. "Ben, are you hoarding yogurt in the break room fridge again?" "Ben, players have started hoarding Acting Ensign Crusher's because they expect them to be the next sale currency." "Ben, next time you go on that show, if you say a word about hoarding, I'll make YOU moderate the forum for the next week." Basically, I bet he wishes he never said it. I think they regret setting up the system that resulted in hoarding, but understand that it's a fact of life now. Maybe he can address that next time. I don't know if it would be wise to do so, or if he could slip on a banana peel and make it worse.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
The main thing that feels antagonistic right now is the fight over expectations. Instead of being plain spoken and discussing their approach to honor sales etc, they are choosing to just beat expectations down with a fairly no compromise approach. I don't really have an oar in this fight myself, I genuinely don't need an honor sale, but I know a lot of people who are feeling aggrieved about it. If they aren't going to have one soon, they should say when they are going to have one and explain their thinking on the timing. If they believe that the honor sales were a mistake (they were), then they should say that we are doing one last sale and then that's it, you won't gain any future benefit from hoarding.
Any other response than this is just shenanigans and is intended to get players second guessing themselves. This is a recipe for regret formation. It's just bad faith. This is not new and in many ways DB/TP have learned to be better over the years. They do have habitual LTOs and regular weekly deals that can be depended on, which is great. They need to tackle the honor sale debacle head on and not just mess with peoples emotions.
I also applaud them for leaving deals up for longer and having a nice variety in them. One of the things that people were upset about recently was the lack of cheaper deals over the anniversary. That feels antagonistic too.
As an aside, another constantly recurring issue is the portal update. Again, they play silly buggers with it. Again, I don't care myself because I think the portal is so diluted now that premium packs aren't worth 10c each, but I know it drives other players insane. There's no need for it. They should treat the players much better than they do.
I have a more generous take on the honor sale. WRG_Ben said we wouldn't have that honor sale as part of Convergence Day. That helped with expectations, though it would have been better to hear earlier. He'll be back soon with that Q1 feature. It may become obvious or he may explain why the honor sale will be later. I'm willing to wait on that one.
I can't help but wonder if Shan told Ben how many times that comment about not hoarding honor has been mentioned. In a way, I could see that becoming an inside joke at the office. "Ben, are you hoarding yogurt in the break room fridge again?" "Ben, players have started hoarding Acting Ensign Crusher's because they expect them to be the next sale currency." "Ben, next time you go on that show, if you say a word about hoarding, I'll make YOU moderate the forum for the next week." Basically, I bet he wishes he never said it. I think they regret setting up the system that resulted in hoarding, but understand that it's a fact of life now. Maybe he can address that next time. I don't know if it would be wise to do so, or if he could slip on a banana peel and make it worse.
My point is that they are antagonising people whether they intend to or not. Your generous take on it doesn't help all the people who feel put out about it. And it's a pretty straightforward thing to fix. Just treat your customers like human beings and address their anxieties. If there are going to be honor sales going forward make them a regular feature. If there aren't, do one last one and make sure people know that it's the last one.
Same with the Premium Pack updates, put them on a regular schedule, stop messing with people. Better yet, just make premium packs worth opening again. No one I know playing the game gives a flying fig about purples apart from collections, so the recent change to packs did absolutely nothing for us. If they keep going as it is there are going to be over 1000 possible drops, that's rubbish for players of all types, new and old alike.
I haven't read every post about the possible new feature, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. I think on the Timelines Talks where Ben was talking about the new feature, he said something about the host who currently do lots of spread sheets will need to do more after the new feature. So I'm doubting it is a Marketplace. And it give a little boost to the theory that it will involve something for our crew to DO, instead of just getting crew, because how they function in the new feature might need more Spreadsheeting...
Huh, that's interesting. I must have missed that. I certainly hope you are correct that it is not a mere marketplace.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
The main thing that feels antagonistic right now is the fight over expectations. Instead of being plain spoken and discussing their approach to honor sales etc, they are choosing to just beat expectations down with a fairly no compromise approach. I don't really have an oar in this fight myself, I genuinely don't need an honor sale, but I know a lot of people who are feeling aggrieved about it. If they aren't going to have one soon, they should say when they are going to have one and explain their thinking on the timing. If they believe that the honor sales were a mistake (they were), then they should say that we are doing one last sale and then that's it, you won't gain any future benefit from hoarding.
Any other response than this is just shenanigans and is intended to get players second guessing themselves. This is a recipe for regret formation. It's just bad faith. This is not new and in many ways DB/TP have learned to be better over the years. They do have habitual LTOs and regular weekly deals that can be depended on, which is great. They need to tackle the honor sale debacle head on and not just mess with peoples emotions.
I also applaud them for leaving deals up for longer and having a nice variety in them. One of the things that people were upset about recently was the lack of cheaper deals over the anniversary. That feels antagonistic too.
As an aside, another constantly recurring issue is the portal update. Again, they play silly buggers with it. Again, I don't care myself because I think the portal is so diluted now that premium packs aren't worth 10c each, but I know it drives other players insane. There's no need for it. They should treat the players much better than they do.
I have a more generous take on the honor sale. WRG_Ben said we wouldn't have that honor sale as part of Convergence Day. That helped with expectations, though it would have been better to hear earlier. He'll be back soon with that Q1 feature. It may become obvious or he may explain why the honor sale will be later. I'm willing to wait on that one.
I can't help but wonder if Shan told Ben how many times that comment about not hoarding honor has been mentioned. In a way, I could see that becoming an inside joke at the office. "Ben, are you hoarding yogurt in the break room fridge again?" "Ben, players have started hoarding Acting Ensign Crusher's because they expect them to be the next sale currency." "Ben, next time you go on that show, if you say a word about hoarding, I'll make YOU moderate the forum for the next week." Basically, I bet he wishes he never said it. I think they regret setting up the system that resulted in hoarding, but understand that it's a fact of life now. Maybe he can address that next time. I don't know if it would be wise to do so, or if he could slip on a banana peel and make it worse.
My point is that they are antagonising people whether they intend to or not. Your generous take on it doesn't help all the people who feel put out about it. And it's a pretty straightforward thing to fix. Just treat your customers like human beings and address their anxieties. If there are going to be honor sales going forward make them a regular feature. If there aren't, do one last one and make sure people know that it's the last one.
Same with the Premium Pack updates, put them on a regular schedule, stop messing with people. Better yet, just make premium packs worth opening again. No one I know playing the game gives a flying fig about purples apart from collections, so the recent change to packs did absolutely nothing for us. If they keep going as it is there are going to be over 1000 possible drops, that's rubbish for players of all types, new and old alike.
That's where I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Ben spent some time talking to players about the game. He gave us some good info about the direction of the game. We agree that is good and that we would love to see devs do more of it. You think one comment about honor hoarding makes the whole relationship antagonistic. I think (my personal opinion) that taking that one comment and dwelling on it will drive unnecessary negativity.
Is it fair to discuss it? Absolutely. When devs communicate something to us, it's on the discussion table. But when so much was discussed in much more detail, I see it as unfair to assign so much meaning and intent to one or two sentences. Especially when he is already planning to talk to players again in the coming weeks. He'll have a chance to clarify. He can either reinforce everything you say, or he'll have a better explanation. Waiting to find out is annoying, but I think we kind of have to.
You're right that if a comment invoked strong emotions in many players that it should be addressed. I hope you'll go to the Timelines Talks thread and pose the question for Ben's next appearance. I could do it, but I think it would be best and most fair to come from you. You better represent those who feel aggrieved and will probably ask in a way that elicits a more complete response.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
The main thing that feels antagonistic right now is the fight over expectations. Instead of being plain spoken and discussing their approach to honor sales etc, they are choosing to just beat expectations down with a fairly no compromise approach. I don't really have an oar in this fight myself, I genuinely don't need an honor sale, but I know a lot of people who are feeling aggrieved about it. If they aren't going to have one soon, they should say when they are going to have one and explain their thinking on the timing. If they believe that the honor sales were a mistake (they were), then they should say that we are doing one last sale and then that's it, you won't gain any future benefit from hoarding.
Any other response than this is just shenanigans and is intended to get players second guessing themselves. This is a recipe for regret formation. It's just bad faith. This is not new and in many ways DB/TP have learned to be better over the years. They do have habitual LTOs and regular weekly deals that can be depended on, which is great. They need to tackle the honor sale debacle head on and not just mess with peoples emotions.
I also applaud them for leaving deals up for longer and having a nice variety in them. One of the things that people were upset about recently was the lack of cheaper deals over the anniversary. That feels antagonistic too.
As an aside, another constantly recurring issue is the portal update. Again, they play silly buggers with it. Again, I don't care myself because I think the portal is so diluted now that premium packs aren't worth 10c each, but I know it drives other players insane. There's no need for it. They should treat the players much better than they do.
I have a more generous take on the honor sale. WRG_Ben said we wouldn't have that honor sale as part of Convergence Day. That helped with expectations, though it would have been better to hear earlier. He'll be back soon with that Q1 feature. It may become obvious or he may explain why the honor sale will be later. I'm willing to wait on that one.
I can't help but wonder if Shan told Ben how many times that comment about not hoarding honor has been mentioned. In a way, I could see that becoming an inside joke at the office. "Ben, are you hoarding yogurt in the break room fridge again?" "Ben, players have started hoarding Acting Ensign Crusher's because they expect them to be the next sale currency." "Ben, next time you go on that show, if you say a word about hoarding, I'll make YOU moderate the forum for the next week." Basically, I bet he wishes he never said it. I think they regret setting up the system that resulted in hoarding, but understand that it's a fact of life now. Maybe he can address that next time. I don't know if it would be wise to do so, or if he could slip on a banana peel and make it worse.
My point is that they are antagonising people whether they intend to or not. Your generous take on it doesn't help all the people who feel put out about it. And it's a pretty straightforward thing to fix. Just treat your customers like human beings and address their anxieties. If there are going to be honor sales going forward make them a regular feature. If there aren't, do one last one and make sure people know that it's the last one.
Same with the Premium Pack updates, put them on a regular schedule, stop messing with people. Better yet, just make premium packs worth opening again. No one I know playing the game gives a flying fig about purples apart from collections, so the recent change to packs did absolutely nothing for us. If they keep going as it is there are going to be over 1000 possible drops, that's rubbish for players of all types, new and old alike.
That's where I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Ben spent some time talking to players about the game. He gave us some good info about the direction of the game. We agree that is good and that we would love to see devs do more of it. You think one comment about honor hoarding makes the whole relationship antagonistic. I think (my personal opinion) that taking that one comment and dwelling on it will drive unnecessary negativity.
Is it fair to discuss it? Absolutely. When devs communicate something to us, it's on the discussion table. But when so much was discussed in much more detail, I see it as unfair to assign so much meaning and intent to one or two sentences. Especially when he is already planning to talk to players again in the coming weeks. He'll have a chance to clarify. He can either reinforce everything you say, or he'll have a better explanation. Waiting to find out is annoying, but I think we kind of have to.
You're right that if a comment invoked strong emotions in many players that it should be addressed. I hope you'll go to the Timelines Talks thread and pose the question for Ben's next appearance. I could do it, but I think it would be best and most fair to come from you. You better represent those who feel aggrieved and will probably ask in a way that elicits a more complete response.
I don't feel we are disagreeing about the same things because I wasn't referring to anything anyone said, I was referring to what is not being said and could be said. TP just have to decide what it is they are going to do and let us know. How hard is that? Whether it's Premium Pack updates or Honor sales, they play silly buggers with their players trying to make them second guess themselves. Presumably they do this because if players make mistakes TP thinks they make more money, and maybe they do. But that's the part that feels antagonistic. They could clear things up, but they'd rather take advantage.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
The main thing that feels antagonistic right now is the fight over expectations. Instead of being plain spoken and discussing their approach to honor sales etc, they are choosing to just beat expectations down with a fairly no compromise approach. I don't really have an oar in this fight myself, I genuinely don't need an honor sale, but I know a lot of people who are feeling aggrieved about it. If they aren't going to have one soon, they should say when they are going to have one and explain their thinking on the timing. If they believe that the honor sales were a mistake (they were), then they should say that we are doing one last sale and then that's it, you won't gain any future benefit from hoarding.
Any other response than this is just shenanigans and is intended to get players second guessing themselves. This is a recipe for regret formation. It's just bad faith. This is not new and in many ways DB/TP have learned to be better over the years. They do have habitual LTOs and regular weekly deals that can be depended on, which is great. They need to tackle the honor sale debacle head on and not just mess with peoples emotions.
I also applaud them for leaving deals up for longer and having a nice variety in them. One of the things that people were upset about recently was the lack of cheaper deals over the anniversary. That feels antagonistic too.
As an aside, another constantly recurring issue is the portal update. Again, they play silly buggers with it. Again, I don't care myself because I think the portal is so diluted now that premium packs aren't worth 10c each, but I know it drives other players insane. There's no need for it. They should treat the players much better than they do.
I have a more generous take on the honor sale. WRG_Ben said we wouldn't have that honor sale as part of Convergence Day. That helped with expectations, though it would have been better to hear earlier. He'll be back soon with that Q1 feature. It may become obvious or he may explain why the honor sale will be later. I'm willing to wait on that one.
I can't help but wonder if Shan told Ben how many times that comment about not hoarding honor has been mentioned. In a way, I could see that becoming an inside joke at the office. "Ben, are you hoarding yogurt in the break room fridge again?" "Ben, players have started hoarding Acting Ensign Crusher's because they expect them to be the next sale currency." "Ben, next time you go on that show, if you say a word about hoarding, I'll make YOU moderate the forum for the next week." Basically, I bet he wishes he never said it. I think they regret setting up the system that resulted in hoarding, but understand that it's a fact of life now. Maybe he can address that next time. I don't know if it would be wise to do so, or if he could slip on a banana peel and make it worse.
My point is that they are antagonising people whether they intend to or not. Your generous take on it doesn't help all the people who feel put out about it. And it's a pretty straightforward thing to fix. Just treat your customers like human beings and address their anxieties. If there are going to be honor sales going forward make them a regular feature. If there aren't, do one last one and make sure people know that it's the last one.
Same with the Premium Pack updates, put them on a regular schedule, stop messing with people. Better yet, just make premium packs worth opening again. No one I know playing the game gives a flying fig about purples apart from collections, so the recent change to packs did absolutely nothing for us. If they keep going as it is there are going to be over 1000 possible drops, that's rubbish for players of all types, new and old alike.
That's where I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Ben spent some time talking to players about the game. He gave us some good info about the direction of the game. We agree that is good and that we would love to see devs do more of it. You think one comment about honor hoarding makes the whole relationship antagonistic. I think (my personal opinion) that taking that one comment and dwelling on it will drive unnecessary negativity.
Is it fair to discuss it? Absolutely. When devs communicate something to us, it's on the discussion table. But when so much was discussed in much more detail, I see it as unfair to assign so much meaning and intent to one or two sentences. Especially when he is already planning to talk to players again in the coming weeks. He'll have a chance to clarify. He can either reinforce everything you say, or he'll have a better explanation. Waiting to find out is annoying, but I think we kind of have to.
You're right that if a comment invoked strong emotions in many players that it should be addressed. I hope you'll go to the Timelines Talks thread and pose the question for Ben's next appearance. I could do it, but I think it would be best and most fair to come from you. You better represent those who feel aggrieved and will probably ask in a way that elicits a more complete response.
I don't feel we are disagreeing about the same things because I wasn't referring to anything anyone said, I was referring to what is not being said and could be said. TP just have to decide what it is they are going to do and let us know. How hard is that? Whether it's Premium Pack updates or Honor sales, they play silly buggers with their players trying to make them second guess themselves. Presumably they do this because if players make mistakes TP thinks they make more money, and maybe they do. But that's the part that feels antagonistic. They could clear things up, but they'd rather take advantage.
I think this is the key element that is missing. Adequate communication. I mean as just one example, the dabo sale would have been very well received if it was accompanied by an announcement that we should hang on to credits. How hard is that?
As far as comms with tp/wrg, i think its best summarized as the silence clearly states what is not said out loud. They do jerk us around and mess with us. They mislead us. They say they don’t want us to hoard then they offer sales or specials that inspire people to hoard. Etc etc etc.
I actually don't know how hard that is. I suspect that it's not easy, though. I remember a couple things Ben mentioned in September(?) that they were unable to fulfill. Yes, they could have communicated those things along the way. But then it turns into players upset when plans change or just turn out to be impossible. You get players thinking they know how to run the company or just feeling let down. It's a balancing act. That's not to say they've found the best balance, but that I appreciate how difficult it is for them. I think they're moving in the direction that we both want - more communication. I find that to be more congenial than antagonistic. Now... if they stop communicating changes to us, then I'll come around to your way of thinking, more likely than not.
I actually don't know how hard that is. I suspect that it's not easy, though. I remember a couple things Ben mentioned in September(?) that they were unable to fulfill. Yes, they could have communicated those things along the way. But then it turns into players upset when plans change or just turn out to be impossible. You get players thinking they know how to run the company or just feeling let down. It's a balancing act. That's not to say they've found the best balance, but that I appreciate how difficult it is for them. I think they're moving in the direction that we both want - more communication. I find that to be more congenial than antagonistic. Now... if they stop communicating changes to us, then I'll come around to your way of thinking, more likely than not.
You might be right in general about what they can tell us, but on the topics I've mentioned, honor sales and portal updates, they can definitely make a decision and tell us if they want to. Please address these issues. You asked me for evidence of their antagonism and have now posted multiple times in a row ignoring the actual content of my posts.
1) Do you think how they manage the Portal Updates and the Honor Sales is professional and non-antagonistic to players?
2) Do you think that the reason that they don't communicate properly on these things is because they don't have a clue about what they are doing week to week or because they think that by letting us know that they might make lower revenue?
1) I do see it as more professional and not antagonistic. It's kind of their job to keep us guessing. If the game were too predictable, it would be boring. I think the word "provocative" would be more appropriate. They are trying to get an emotional response, but I don't think they want it to be negative.
I think that addresses item 2 as well. It's more about getting us emotionally invested in the game.
1) I do see it as more professional and not antagonistic. It's kind of their job to keep us guessing. If the game were too predictable, it would be boring. I think the word "provocative" would be more appropriate. They are trying to get an emotional response, but I don't think they want it to be negative.
I think that addresses item 2 as well. It's more about getting us emotionally invested in the game.
I don’t mean to insert myself between the two of you, but this is an interesting response.
I don’t really understand how you can see it as professional when a company is fully aware that its customers believe one thing (honor sale is coming) and wait until the last minute to officially announce that there wont be one.
Then they further contradict themselves by following the playbook from the original honor sale (surprise players with a “sale” that rewards players who have the most resources, leave the players who dont have the resources feeling “left behind”, encourage hoarding). And, keep in mind that this is right after a spokesperson for the company said they dont want people hoarding.
Is that not a contradiction? At a minimum does it not at least demonstrate that wrg/tp has no idea about the repercussions of the decisions it makes? Or is it just “keeping us guessing” by telling us they do not want us to hoard, and then doing featurettes that reward hoarding?
I don't know if anyone else remembers , but when TP first took over last year a number of people on here suggested we give them 12 to 18 months of running the game before we judge them . When they took over it was because DB were losing money big time , so to me what TP have been doing since then is making the hard choices needed to save the game . As yet we have not given them even 12 of the 18 months we offered them .
Looking through my rose tinted spectacles it looks like they may have now stabilised the game and started building on that . We are now starting to see new things happening , new collections every month and new features for instance .
Does this mean that I'm not annoyed and frustrated like everyone else ? No , of course it doesn't . We should still tell them these things , but just remember they've been a bit distracted by trying to save the game for us . So please be polite about it and withhold your judgement on their parentage at least until the 18 months is up .
Comments
@Cpt_insano_2k1
Not sure what part of "I have no wish to engage with you" was hard to understand. I've washed my hands of you after the abuse you threw my way, repeatedly.
I've addressed pretty much every you just asked, repeatedly in some cases, and it didn't mean a thing, so I won't waste my time again.
Let's not forget "Players shouldn't "hoard" resources", followed quickly by a Dabo Event that uses 10,000,000+ Credits a day to clear the Wheel.........
Yeah.....so, logically the only thing i can assume is that The new feature must somehow utilize credits. wrg/tp probably did a query and found that a small fraction of the players had a tremendous amount of credits stashed, and wanting to level the playing field, they made a dabo “sale” using credits as the currency to try and eliminate those hoards and try to make it more even for the new feature.
Or, this is just another instance of hypocrisy.
I hope this is a joke because this looks to me like you're even gatekeeping gatekeeping!
I'm just going to address a few comments here because I've just read the whole thread after not looking here for a few days.
1) I think that I have tried to provide a clear idea of what I think is 'best practice' in keeping people engaged, ie a healthy level of power creep and constant feature development and iteration.
2) Managing expectations is an extremely hard thing to do, but the safest way to approach it is to be honest and build up a relationship of trust with your community. This can be harder to do if you don't trust yourself to deliver (ie you're aware of internal complications that you can't talk about meaningfully). You should however still try even if that's about managing expectations downward.
3) TP is in a legacy situation where they are left dealing with decisions made by previous ownership. Last years sales were a last hurrah from DB that unfortunately for TP altered the expectations of players going forward. They have left it far too late to try and reverse those expectations so they should just roll with it.
4) Negativity on the forums is like you getting a pain in your arm. It might be nothing, but if it's persistent you should go and get it checked. The White Knights are that part of your brain telling you it'll be ok, you don't need to do anything serious about it. What we are witnessing is two fold. The pain is getting more intense, more people are voicing negative opinions and indeed previous 'white knights' have joined the chorus, and some of those negative comments have just gone away like a dead nerve. My hope is that they can be revived when the right feature comes along, but it's a lot harder to get people back than it is to keep them here. Those who wish for positivity are trying to treat the pain rather than the cause of the pain. If the game had less serious problems then there wouldn't be so many people who believe that TP are on the wrong path.
5) My main wish is that TP and the players didn't have such an antagonistic relationship. I really want the game to succeed by being a great game with lots of happy players and a happy company. That's why I think about the game the way I do. I want player retention, I want successfully monetised players, and I want players who are happy with the value they have received. At the end of the day, the game is a service, and that service needs to be paid for by someone, ideally many someones. And it's when I can't justify my spending on the game, and my friends are vocally questioning their own that leads me to think that there is a huge problem here that needs fixing. My 'negative' posts are intended to be feedback to TP and in some ways a call for collective action, player and company alike to put the game on sounder footing.
6) That sounder footing is unquestionably new features that use our crew on a regular basis. We're about to get one (hopefully that uses our crew). What I would like from TP right now is a sense that they agree with this. And if they don't, why they don't. I guess what I come here for is reassurance, and in the absence of TP coming out and saying 'we agree with Thurthorad', I'll take it from other players saying the same thing and hope that they are paying attention to us.
7) As I said in the very first post in this thread, we can't judge the game on this next feature. Hopefully it will be great, but so far I am a little skeptical because I have yet to hear anything related to what our crew will 'do' in this new feature. Regardless, I am encouraged because it is something new and that's a change in direction for the game that has me excited.
More likely, we will need a bunch of Credits for the new feature, and this helps "monetize" it. Since Credits can be bought for the in-game currency that they sell for cashy folding money.......
💵💲💵💲💵
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
I belive you have hit the nail on the head - although my cynicall self says its not to level the playing field as much as it is to drive $$ sales.
timing is nteresting....
- dont hoard
- lets get you to clear the dabo board using 10M credt a day for 7 days
- if you run out, there is a skirmish, so use chrons to generate credits and claer that out as well
- lets launch a new feature to help get crew that uses two new curriences...
somebody say hhhmmmmm?
This is a far less snarky version of my sentiments. Right now a good chunk of the playerbase is not happy with TP’s stewardship of Timelines (the reasons are varied, but all are seemingly based in existing flaws in the game not being addressed, the lack of new content, a lack of communication, or a combination of all three). We want to see a sign that someone in TP (above Shan and Ben’s level) is actually listening or to be more blunt, actually cares, about anything more than getting money from players. When you feel ignored, you lash out.
If TP wants to minimize the negativity, they should say that they’re listening and that they’re working on plans beyond a single new feature. TP should improve communication with the playerbase, regularly having its own discussions with the community. And TP should become more professional in its operations. If a feature is going live at a set time, make it happen at that time and communicate what’s going to happen well in advance of it going live (at least a day for things like the dabo sale). Ideally, TP would have the staff to do this (I suspect it does not.)
Oy, more spreadsheets? ::heavy sigh::
Sorry @~peregrine~, couldn’t resist! 😉🖖
1) You have. It was well thought out and reasonable.
2) Agreed. It is difficult and there is room for improvement.
3) Again I agree. Several options have been laid out in other threads.
4) I could play your game and counter that negativity is a cancer that kills civil conversation if left untreated. But then we're both being hyperbolic at that point. There's nothing wrong with criticism. Fair is fair, after all. If there's a pain point or a broken mechanic, this is the place to talk about it. But being a jerk about it - the actual negativity - is unproductive and stifles conversation. Devs aren't going to take criticism seriously if it's coming from abusive players. Your posts have been decidedly reasonable. Others would do well to lay out their criticism in the same manner.
5) I don't understand why you call the dev-player relationship "antagonistic". Or at least I don't see how devs are antagonizing the players. Devs have spent some hours over the course of the last several months to add a new feature to the game. That tells me they are working to keep players engaged. Whatever their other failings, I don't think "antagonistic" is quite the right word.
6) I also hope they are paying attention. And the less attention that is required for snipping on the forum, the more time they have to read other posts.
7) Pretty sure I agreed with that earlier. I still do, for the record.
The main thing that feels antagonistic right now is the fight over expectations. Instead of being plain spoken and discussing their approach to honor sales etc, they are choosing to just beat expectations down with a fairly no compromise approach. I don't really have an oar in this fight myself, I genuinely don't need an honor sale, but I know a lot of people who are feeling aggrieved about it. If they aren't going to have one soon, they should say when they are going to have one and explain their thinking on the timing. If they believe that the honor sales were a mistake (they were), then they should say that we are doing one last sale and then that's it, you won't gain any future benefit from hoarding.
Any other response than this is just shenanigans and is intended to get players second guessing themselves. This is a recipe for regret formation. It's just bad faith. This is not new and in many ways DB/TP have learned to be better over the years. They do have habitual LTOs and regular weekly deals that can be depended on, which is great. They need to tackle the honor sale debacle head on and not just mess with peoples emotions.
I also applaud them for leaving deals up for longer and having a nice variety in them. One of the things that people were upset about recently was the lack of cheaper deals over the anniversary. That feels antagonistic too.
As an aside, another constantly recurring issue is the portal update. Again, they play silly buggers with it. Again, I don't care myself because I think the portal is so diluted now that premium packs aren't worth 10c each, but I know it drives other players insane. There's no need for it. They should treat the players much better than they do.
I have a more generous take on the honor sale. WRG_Ben said we wouldn't have that honor sale as part of Convergence Day. That helped with expectations, though it would have been better to hear earlier. He'll be back soon with that Q1 feature. It may become obvious or he may explain why the honor sale will be later. I'm willing to wait on that one.
I can't help but wonder if Shan told Ben how many times that comment about not hoarding honor has been mentioned. In a way, I could see that becoming an inside joke at the office. "Ben, are you hoarding yogurt in the break room fridge again?" "Ben, players have started hoarding Acting Ensign Crusher's because they expect them to be the next sale currency." "Ben, next time you go on that show, if you say a word about hoarding, I'll make YOU moderate the forum for the next week." Basically, I bet he wishes he never said it. I think they regret setting up the system that resulted in hoarding, but understand that it's a fact of life now. Maybe he can address that next time. I don't know if it would be wise to do so, or if he could slip on a banana peel and make it worse.
My point is that they are antagonising people whether they intend to or not. Your generous take on it doesn't help all the people who feel put out about it. And it's a pretty straightforward thing to fix. Just treat your customers like human beings and address their anxieties. If there are going to be honor sales going forward make them a regular feature. If there aren't, do one last one and make sure people know that it's the last one.
Same with the Premium Pack updates, put them on a regular schedule, stop messing with people. Better yet, just make premium packs worth opening again. No one I know playing the game gives a flying fig about purples apart from collections, so the recent change to packs did absolutely nothing for us. If they keep going as it is there are going to be over 1000 possible drops, that's rubbish for players of all types, new and old alike.
Huh, that's interesting. I must have missed that. I certainly hope you are correct that it is not a mere marketplace.
That's where I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Ben spent some time talking to players about the game. He gave us some good info about the direction of the game. We agree that is good and that we would love to see devs do more of it. You think one comment about honor hoarding makes the whole relationship antagonistic. I think (my personal opinion) that taking that one comment and dwelling on it will drive unnecessary negativity.
Is it fair to discuss it? Absolutely. When devs communicate something to us, it's on the discussion table. But when so much was discussed in much more detail, I see it as unfair to assign so much meaning and intent to one or two sentences. Especially when he is already planning to talk to players again in the coming weeks. He'll have a chance to clarify. He can either reinforce everything you say, or he'll have a better explanation. Waiting to find out is annoying, but I think we kind of have to.
You're right that if a comment invoked strong emotions in many players that it should be addressed. I hope you'll go to the Timelines Talks thread and pose the question for Ben's next appearance. I could do it, but I think it would be best and most fair to come from you. You better represent those who feel aggrieved and will probably ask in a way that elicits a more complete response.
I don't feel we are disagreeing about the same things because I wasn't referring to anything anyone said, I was referring to what is not being said and could be said. TP just have to decide what it is they are going to do and let us know. How hard is that? Whether it's Premium Pack updates or Honor sales, they play silly buggers with their players trying to make them second guess themselves. Presumably they do this because if players make mistakes TP thinks they make more money, and maybe they do. But that's the part that feels antagonistic. They could clear things up, but they'd rather take advantage.
I think this is the key element that is missing. Adequate communication. I mean as just one example, the dabo sale would have been very well received if it was accompanied by an announcement that we should hang on to credits. How hard is that?
As far as comms with tp/wrg, i think its best summarized as the silence clearly states what is not said out loud. They do jerk us around and mess with us. They mislead us. They say they don’t want us to hoard then they offer sales or specials that inspire people to hoard. Etc etc etc.
You might be right in general about what they can tell us, but on the topics I've mentioned, honor sales and portal updates, they can definitely make a decision and tell us if they want to. Please address these issues. You asked me for evidence of their antagonism and have now posted multiple times in a row ignoring the actual content of my posts.
1) Do you think how they manage the Portal Updates and the Honor Sales is professional and non-antagonistic to players?
2) Do you think that the reason that they don't communicate properly on these things is because they don't have a clue about what they are doing week to week or because they think that by letting us know that they might make lower revenue?
I think that addresses item 2 as well. It's more about getting us emotionally invested in the game.
I don’t mean to insert myself between the two of you, but this is an interesting response.
I don’t really understand how you can see it as professional when a company is fully aware that its customers believe one thing (honor sale is coming) and wait until the last minute to officially announce that there wont be one.
Then they further contradict themselves by following the playbook from the original honor sale (surprise players with a “sale” that rewards players who have the most resources, leave the players who dont have the resources feeling “left behind”, encourage hoarding). And, keep in mind that this is right after a spokesperson for the company said they dont want people hoarding.
Is that not a contradiction? At a minimum does it not at least demonstrate that wrg/tp has no idea about the repercussions of the decisions it makes? Or is it just “keeping us guessing” by telling us they do not want us to hoard, and then doing featurettes that reward hoarding?
Looking through my rose tinted spectacles it looks like they may have now stabilised the game and started building on that . We are now starting to see new things happening , new collections every month and new features for instance .
Does this mean that I'm not annoyed and frustrated like everyone else ? No , of course it doesn't . We should still tell them these things , but just remember they've been a bit distracted by trying to save the game for us . So please be polite about it and withhold your judgement on their parentage at least until the 18 months is up .
And this is related to the new feature and this threads topic, how?