I agree with Ben...the desire for more power creep is a curious request.
I feel this game had runaway power creep for a while. A slowdown is warranted
The fact that Ben doesn't understand the necessity for power creep is deeply troubling for the game. It feels like he's never played other successful games of this nature.
Power creep is more important when you have new goals to achieve. Once you get 10 hour voyages regularly and have all the missions completed and most of the collections, the power creep make a whole lot less difference. Also, consider that the more power creep you have, the more difficult it is to attract new players. As it is, new players are at a huge disadvantage. I think too much more power creep would make it impossible to compete (without spending loads of cash) and give no incentive to play. With minor power creep and just good but not better crew, new players will go for it and old players may not.
Power creep is more important when you have new goals to achieve. Once you get 10 hour voyages regularly and have all the missions completed and most of the collections, the power creep make a whole lot less difference. Also, consider that the more power creep you have, the more difficult it is to attract new players. As it is, new players are at a huge disadvantage. I think too much more power creep would make it impossible to compete (without spending loads of cash) and give no incentive to play. With minor power creep and just good but not better crew, new players will go for it and old players may not.
Power creep is good for new players. They enter the game and in their first few events are picking up great crew, the new hotness. This is especially true for all of the low cost options such as mega event crew etc. As it is they are entering the game and they are facing a premium pack pool that has a very low chance of giving you purples you need, never mind legendaries. If they buy event packs the event crew should be better than any other crew they get, so very quickly they are on par.
They still won't have crew depth (partly a crew slot issue), and it'll take them a while to have legendary crew depth, but they can focus on developing newer crew rather than trying to hunt down FO Burnham or Gary Seven.
And indeed the real solution to the premium pack issue is to sell deprecated crew in packs that are cheaper. This is already happening to a limited extent, but they could split the premium pack pool on a permanent basis and price the packs accordingly.
The formulas are asymptotic. Power creep can only go so high before becoming meaningless. If every new card was dozens of points stronger than the prior new card, every player would be sending 98% shuttles by July. I suppose voyages and gauntlet are uncapped with respect to power creep, but events (galaxy, faction, and expedition) would become silly exercises in near-100% success rates.
There is nothing wrong with new cards that are just-below-the-best if they are filling other gaps in rosters, or adding depth to a niche area (ex: traits, races, source series, skills, etc). If a card doesn’t work for someone (whatever the reason), I get that. But a newer player would benefit greatly from the new Musiker, or the recently disappointing (per forum consensus, if that can be trusted) Uxbridge. They don’t need Musiker to be the #1 card to benefit from the power creep that has enabled her to be #3.
(Ignore the actual math in my assertions since I’m just writing this off the cuff, but the point doesn’t change regardless of the numerical details.)
I agree with Ben...the desire for more power creep is a curious request.
I feel this game had runaway power creep for a while. A slowdown is warranted
The fact that Ben doesn't understand the necessity for power creep is deeply troubling for the game. It feels like he's never played other successful games of this nature.
That’s a gross misunderstanding of the position. The game has power creep. Quite a bit of it. The position that the game is “creeping” along at a respectable pace is a valid one. You feel its too slow. Ok, also valid. But to say that they don’t recognize the need for it simply isn’t true. For a time there was a backlash against the power creep. This is just an observation that the narrative has shifted.
Also the one thing forum members always forget is the vast majority of players don’t play any game long enough for it to matter. There’s plenty of data on this. I’m not saying WRG should ignore longtime loyal players. I am saying that those players need to be cognizant of the fact that there isn’t one type of player and the development takes that into consideration.
The formulas are asymptotic. Power creep can only go so high before becoming meaningless. If every new card was dozens of points stronger than the prior new card, every player would be sending 98% shuttles by July. I suppose voyages and gauntlet are uncapped with respect to power creep, but events (galaxy, faction, and expedition) would become silly exercises in near-100% success rates.
There is nothing wrong with new cards that are just-below-the-best if they are filling other gaps in rosters, or adding depth to a niche area (ex: traits, races, source series, skills, etc). If a card doesn’t work for someone (whatever the reason), I get that. But a newer player would benefit greatly from the new Musiker, or the recently disappointing (per forum consensus, if that can be trusted) Uxbridge. They don’t need Musiker to be the #1 card to benefit from the power creep that has enabled her to be #3.
(Ignore the actual math in my assertions since I’m just writing this off the cuff, but the point doesn’t change regardless of the numerical details.)
The primary issue here is that established players have no reason to buy anything if they are not the 'best'. I have the 'best' in most categories already. And I spent some money (dolphin levels) to get there, so I'm a prime target to spend more. But when they make characters I think are cool and they don't meaningful upgrade my roster I just don't have a reason to put my hand in my pocket.
Now, I don't know how representative I am, and having listened to the Timelines Talk stream it's clear to me that they probably aren't making the game for people like me. Maybe someone else is paying for it. Maybe it's all ad revenue based now and all they really need is people's data. But it seems that they don't want to sell new cards.
I play a lot of games, and I know a fair amount about what a good game looks like. I have studied the free to play model carefully as part of PhD research and I am really struggling to understand their business model at this point. Who on earth would buy Rafi and invest 4 citations into her? Presumably just someone who really likes Rafi? Maybe people are just collecting the cards and are price insensitive? Not one person here who has defended the card has said that they were going to try to get her. I really wanted to go for the card, even after I knew she was 0.937 of Burnham's Voyage stats (that's how we compare Voyage crew, relative to FO Burnham). That's 6.3% lower than a card that's 3 years old. She was beaten on every other metric by a card that was featured in a recent campaign (Pah Wraith Keiko).
A new player would be a fool to waste resources going for her and citing her unless they really liked the character. Traits are by and large not that important. They barely make a difference in Voyages which is the game mode that needs the greatest crew depth. And they are often irrelevant for faction events too (another mode that often needs depth). Even the new mode which is heavily dependent on traits doesn't actually USE traits on characters you have!
But the main issue is that uncited she's not even playable for a mature roster. Even if I got her, she's no where near good enough to demand a citation. So she literally becomes -1 crew slot (which is another major disincentive to pick up 1/5s). All of this applied to Kevin Uxbridge too and many other so so cards that they create. Citations are rare enough that they are invested in your best crew, not 'fine' crew, so the 'fine' crew just wallow in uselessness.
Power Creep is not desirable in and of itself, it's desirable so that players have an incentive to acquire and invest in new characters. Once invested in they age gracefully, but if they never get those early citations they are never playable. I went for Kevin Uxbridge and I got him and I haven't even levelled him at this point. He is literally just costing me a crew slot. He is useless on arrival. That's a bad product, even for a collecting game.
This game is losing the battle for my attention. I am not sure if TP cares, though, since I reckon I am close to 97.5% of my LTV by their (now-secreted) metrics. The STT team at the WRG studio seem to care, but only two of them are here, publicly, to withstand the torches & pitchforks we seem to be raising more frequently.
It’s okay, though. I will read more books instead and save some money. LLAP
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
This game is losing the battle for my attention. I am not sure if TP cares, though, since I reckon I am close to 97.5% of my LTV by their (now-secreted) metrics. The STT team at the WRG studio seem to care, but only two of them are here, publicly, to withstand the torches & pitchforks we seem to be raising more frequently.
It’s okay, though. I will read more books instead and save some money. LLAP
You will save a lot of money if all the books you read are so thick. Here are some others you can try.
I like thick books, personally. Some authors seem to favor them. (See Sanderson, for example.) But my current situation lends itself to audiobooks while driving 40K miles a year.
But your joke in adding the Dictionary is not a bad idea. I know more than a few native-born English speakers who would greatly benefit from a good dictionary. Then toss in a grammar guide.
This game is losing the battle for my attention. I am not sure if TP cares, though, since I reckon I am close to 97.5% of my LTV by their (now-secreted) metrics. The STT team at the WRG studio seem to care, but only two of them are here, publicly, to withstand the torches & pitchforks we seem to be raising more frequently.
It’s okay, though. I will read more books instead and save some money. LLAP
You will save a lot of money if all the books you read are so thick. Here are some others you can try.
@~peregrine~ and @(HGH)Apollo
In that case I would also humbly suggest this, and believe that Jean Luc would concur:
This game is losing the battle for my attention. I am not sure if TP cares, though, since I reckon I am close to 97.5% of my LTV by their (now-secreted) metrics. The STT team at the WRG studio seem to care, but only two of them are here, publicly, to withstand the torches & pitchforks we seem to be raising more frequently.
It’s okay, though. I will read more books instead and save some money. LLAP
You will save a lot of money if all the books you read are so thick. Here are some others you can try.
@~peregrine~ and @(HGH)Apollo
In that case I would also humbly suggest this, and believe that Jean Luc would concur:
I like thick books, personally. Some authors seem to favor them. (See Sanderson, for example.) But my current situation lends itself to audiobooks while driving 40K miles a year.
But your joke in adding the Dictionary is not a bad idea. I know more than a few native-born English speakers who would greatly benefit from a good dictionary. Then toss in a grammar guide.
I never argue against reading. I have four sets of encyclopedias under my belt and a dictionary.
I personally recommend Harper's New English Grammar. Loved it. Very concise and sorts out several issues clearly. It owes a lot to Bennett's Latin Grammar, stylistically, and, if you've read both, you can tell.
Not a thick one, but I got this in the mail today.
Yes, my reading habits are eclectic.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Comments
The fact that Ben doesn't understand the necessity for power creep is deeply troubling for the game. It feels like he's never played other successful games of this nature.
Power creep is good for new players. They enter the game and in their first few events are picking up great crew, the new hotness. This is especially true for all of the low cost options such as mega event crew etc. As it is they are entering the game and they are facing a premium pack pool that has a very low chance of giving you purples you need, never mind legendaries. If they buy event packs the event crew should be better than any other crew they get, so very quickly they are on par.
They still won't have crew depth (partly a crew slot issue), and it'll take them a while to have legendary crew depth, but they can focus on developing newer crew rather than trying to hunt down FO Burnham or Gary Seven.
And indeed the real solution to the premium pack issue is to sell deprecated crew in packs that are cheaper. This is already happening to a limited extent, but they could split the premium pack pool on a permanent basis and price the packs accordingly.
There is nothing wrong with new cards that are just-below-the-best if they are filling other gaps in rosters, or adding depth to a niche area (ex: traits, races, source series, skills, etc). If a card doesn’t work for someone (whatever the reason), I get that. But a newer player would benefit greatly from the new Musiker, or the recently disappointing (per forum consensus, if that can be trusted) Uxbridge. They don’t need Musiker to be the #1 card to benefit from the power creep that has enabled her to be #3.
(Ignore the actual math in my assertions since I’m just writing this off the cuff, but the point doesn’t change regardless of the numerical details.)
Also the one thing forum members always forget is the vast majority of players don’t play any game long enough for it to matter. There’s plenty of data on this. I’m not saying WRG should ignore longtime loyal players. I am saying that those players need to be cognizant of the fact that there isn’t one type of player and the development takes that into consideration.
The primary issue here is that established players have no reason to buy anything if they are not the 'best'. I have the 'best' in most categories already. And I spent some money (dolphin levels) to get there, so I'm a prime target to spend more. But when they make characters I think are cool and they don't meaningful upgrade my roster I just don't have a reason to put my hand in my pocket.
Now, I don't know how representative I am, and having listened to the Timelines Talk stream it's clear to me that they probably aren't making the game for people like me. Maybe someone else is paying for it. Maybe it's all ad revenue based now and all they really need is people's data. But it seems that they don't want to sell new cards.
I play a lot of games, and I know a fair amount about what a good game looks like. I have studied the free to play model carefully as part of PhD research and I am really struggling to understand their business model at this point. Who on earth would buy Rafi and invest 4 citations into her? Presumably just someone who really likes Rafi? Maybe people are just collecting the cards and are price insensitive? Not one person here who has defended the card has said that they were going to try to get her. I really wanted to go for the card, even after I knew she was 0.937 of Burnham's Voyage stats (that's how we compare Voyage crew, relative to FO Burnham). That's 6.3% lower than a card that's 3 years old. She was beaten on every other metric by a card that was featured in a recent campaign (Pah Wraith Keiko).
A new player would be a fool to waste resources going for her and citing her unless they really liked the character. Traits are by and large not that important. They barely make a difference in Voyages which is the game mode that needs the greatest crew depth. And they are often irrelevant for faction events too (another mode that often needs depth). Even the new mode which is heavily dependent on traits doesn't actually USE traits on characters you have!
But the main issue is that uncited she's not even playable for a mature roster. Even if I got her, she's no where near good enough to demand a citation. So she literally becomes -1 crew slot (which is another major disincentive to pick up 1/5s). All of this applied to Kevin Uxbridge too and many other so so cards that they create. Citations are rare enough that they are invested in your best crew, not 'fine' crew, so the 'fine' crew just wallow in uselessness.
Power Creep is not desirable in and of itself, it's desirable so that players have an incentive to acquire and invest in new characters. Once invested in they age gracefully, but if they never get those early citations they are never playable. I went for Kevin Uxbridge and I got him and I haven't even levelled him at this point. He is literally just costing me a crew slot. He is useless on arrival. That's a bad product, even for a collecting game.
It’s okay, though. I will read more books instead and save some money. LLAP
You will save a lot of money if all the books you read are so thick. Here are some others you can try.
But your joke in adding the Dictionary is not a bad idea. I know more than a few native-born English speakers who would greatly benefit from a good dictionary. Then toss in a grammar guide.
@~peregrine~ and @(HGH)Apollo
In that case I would also humbly suggest this, and believe that Jean Luc would concur:
I concur, @Commodore Pack :
I never argue against reading. I have four sets of encyclopedias under my belt and a dictionary.
I personally recommend Harper's New English Grammar. Loved it. Very concise and sorts out several issues clearly. It owes a lot to Bennett's Latin Grammar, stylistically, and, if you've read both, you can tell.
Not a thick one, but I got this in the mail today.
Yes, my reading habits are eclectic.