And so it's come to this. It's not you, WRG, it's me.
![[BL] HR NotAMerryMan](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030345/uploads/defaultavatar/nL5515UJH9DYJ.jpg)
I will try to not drag this out too long.
I started with DB playing Game of Thrones: Ascent. I’ve been playing Timelines since launch week, and I’ve been a daily player for over five years. I don’t know if I count as a whale or not but based on these screen shots I feel comfortable saying I’ve been a loyal customer.
And having been around since the beginning I’ve seen a whole lot of things go right and whole lot of things go wrong. But what happened two weeks ago was by far the worst. I’ve spent two weeks playing like nothing happened because I wanted to give it time to cool off and see how I felt, and time for reasonable people at WRG to admit reasonable things; that hasn’t happened and so now here I am.
I didn’t know about the infamous design flaw until after the fact. I never got any benefit from the design flaw. I was not banned. But with the way TP or WRG or whatever they call themelves now handled it….. I think I’m done. The devs made a mistake. The devs made a mistake a few weeks before that when they broke the stupid Event Hub and conditioned everyone to keep pushing buttons over and over again yet no one got banned for tapping too many times on that design flaw; however, this mistake, they thought, was different because it was bad for them. So they did the mature thing and held other people responsible. They blamed players who, even if they understood what they were seeing was a design flaw (and not all understood that) never actually broke any rule in the Terms of Service. And so the ban hammers fell. That was a second mistake. After the community called them out on this mistake they relented under pressure, all while seemingly holding to their position so we would know they were reversing their actions only under duress, the players are still dirty cheaters and the devs are the real victims here.
This is the behavior of children. I for one find doubling down on obvious mistakes rather than owning up to it, insincere non-apologies and an almost adversarial posture with the customer base to be just plain wrong. And I don’t think I want to do business with people who engage in what, to me, is unethical behavior. So it's not you, WRG. It's me. The course WRG charted appears to suggest that the next time the devs make a mistake then if I inadvertently get some benefit from whatever that next screw-up is then the ban hammer may well swing harder, faster and more ruthlessly because, hey, they warned us this time not to press a button we don’t know is broken.
So I’m hanging it up, at least for a little while. I’m not going to delete the game, but since I mulled this over for two weeks I’m going to disable push notifications, tuck the game in the back of some folder on my phone I never dig into and forget about it for the next two weeks at least. We’ll see if I feel compelled to come back. If not then Cleo, Silver, Abs, Saga, Test, Glorf, Elim, Chieph, and a whole bunch more who’ve retired long before me and aren’t even around to read this anymore, it’s been real. Peace out, folks.
I started with DB playing Game of Thrones: Ascent. I’ve been playing Timelines since launch week, and I’ve been a daily player for over five years. I don’t know if I count as a whale or not but based on these screen shots I feel comfortable saying I’ve been a loyal customer.
And having been around since the beginning I’ve seen a whole lot of things go right and whole lot of things go wrong. But what happened two weeks ago was by far the worst. I’ve spent two weeks playing like nothing happened because I wanted to give it time to cool off and see how I felt, and time for reasonable people at WRG to admit reasonable things; that hasn’t happened and so now here I am.
I didn’t know about the infamous design flaw until after the fact. I never got any benefit from the design flaw. I was not banned. But with the way TP or WRG or whatever they call themelves now handled it….. I think I’m done. The devs made a mistake. The devs made a mistake a few weeks before that when they broke the stupid Event Hub and conditioned everyone to keep pushing buttons over and over again yet no one got banned for tapping too many times on that design flaw; however, this mistake, they thought, was different because it was bad for them. So they did the mature thing and held other people responsible. They blamed players who, even if they understood what they were seeing was a design flaw (and not all understood that) never actually broke any rule in the Terms of Service. And so the ban hammers fell. That was a second mistake. After the community called them out on this mistake they relented under pressure, all while seemingly holding to their position so we would know they were reversing their actions only under duress, the players are still dirty cheaters and the devs are the real victims here.
This is the behavior of children. I for one find doubling down on obvious mistakes rather than owning up to it, insincere non-apologies and an almost adversarial posture with the customer base to be just plain wrong. And I don’t think I want to do business with people who engage in what, to me, is unethical behavior. So it's not you, WRG. It's me. The course WRG charted appears to suggest that the next time the devs make a mistake then if I inadvertently get some benefit from whatever that next screw-up is then the ban hammer may well swing harder, faster and more ruthlessly because, hey, they warned us this time not to press a button we don’t know is broken.
So I’m hanging it up, at least for a little while. I’m not going to delete the game, but since I mulled this over for two weeks I’m going to disable push notifications, tuck the game in the back of some folder on my phone I never dig into and forget about it for the next two weeks at least. We’ll see if I feel compelled to come back. If not then Cleo, Silver, Abs, Saga, Test, Glorf, Elim, Chieph, and a whole bunch more who’ve retired long before me and aren’t even around to read this anymore, it’s been real. Peace out, folks.
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Comments
Very well said 👏
.......question for you, Warrior Willo.....Why Not make it clear to a company when said company has lost a ling time player?
If your stance is that players should just quietly disappear without providing feedback, the danger would be that a company might miss a chance to correct decisions that are negatively impacting revenue.
I think i get the underlying tone of your message though. You are upset, or maybe offended that these forums as of late are populated by complaints. Grievances. Demands. But these are not things that came about idly, rather, an external stimuli expressed them. Kind of like a lance piercing a boil.
Truth be told, i wonder why i even lurk around here anymore. Habit really. App uninstalled weeks ago, no real investment in the game at all anymore.fallacy of sunken costs i suppose. Maybe i keep hoping that the company will turn it all around and make me come running back, or maybe i just enjoy watching the never ending trainwreck of it all. Hard to say.
Either way, to your question of “why start this all over again?”, i must ask, has it actually ended?
TP over reacted with the ban hammer. I have theorised why they wanted to keep people out of their accounts while they conducted cleanup, but it was handled badly. However, whilst some players didn't know what they were doing, plenty did, and we know this because many have admitted as much, and I am sure that many crying foul also knew they were exploiting a bug but don't want to admit it.
TP/WRG are turning into a company I am happy to spend money with, taking actions and creating features and doing things. For years they have been timid, now we are seeing player engagement and movements to address problems (one of those problems was a player base that didn't know when to stop taking the mickey out of a bug).
So, whilst I do think that they should adopt more diplomatic language and create features that actually use our crew rather than giving us even more of them (and yes, I want more power creep etc,) these are all things that we might get from a company willing to upset a few people rather than from what we've had for years, a company that has just been milking their players whilst doing the absolute minimum to draw attention to themselves.
I feel better about the game now than I have in over 18 months. Maybe if the new feature had actually given us something to do with our crew, people would have had more reason to stay. Personally, I am drawing a lot of hope from them trying to improve things even at this late stage. Hopefully, those of you leaving now (and you absolutely should if you feel that way), will keep your ears open in the hopes that good news arrives in the next few months about proper new features.
We obviously have different understandings of what atrocious is. I doubt there is anyway TP can phrase an apology that is going to satisfy all of those still feeling aggrieved. I’m sure TP has got the message loud and clear that many were unhappy with their actions and have learned from it.
Continuing commentary on this issue is getting tiresome and I feel responsible for helping to perpetuate it. I now regret that I commented on the original post and will refrain from doing so going forward.
They don’t need to apologize when you keep apologizing for them.
The sad part is that you missed the point. Many of the die hards are leaving. These are among the bigger contributors of the folks who have been paying the salaries of the developers.
Your snotty dismissal of them is what is sad. The community is now down another player, and your response is essentially “good riddance”. I understand you are trying to play defense for the developer, but your stance makes it clear that you wont tolerate anything less than people kissing the rings of the developers. Sorry but thats not a good preface to building a vibrant gaming community.
Best of luck, in this game (for the next 6 - 12 months that its around) or in whatever else you do in life.
Regarding the topic. Not sure if it really was necessary to open a seperate thread for this, but i wish you all the best. Enjoy ur „semi“? retirement.
It's quite fascinating how many people who have "quit" the game are:
• still getting FTM
• still posting repeatedly on here
Ov (Overall) | Vo (Voyage) | Fa (Faction) | Ga (Gauntlet)
Sb (Ship Battle) | Bt (Boss Battle Traits) | Co (Collection) | (Cd (Cadet)
LLAP
Also such a message sent to TP that “outraged” players are so high on the event leaderboard
If I had a crew slot for every time someone "quit or retired"....well...
So. Many. Crew slots
<raises hand> mea culpa
Games like this can be habit forming and sometimes you wonder whether you're doing X out of habit or because you really want to. It can be good to break the habit to reveal one way or another how you actually feel about a game.
I left once, a while ago now, and it reset my relationship with the game which had become a bit toxic, but a few months away from the game, playing other games, enabled me to come back with a fresh, healthier perspective and I've enjoyed the game more ever since.
And no, the game is not perfect, but it is what it is and I like my squad and fleet and importantly, Star Trek.
Honestly, I don't think people disagree with you. It is fine to decide to take a step back from a game, and pick it up again later.
Few things are at play here:
1. Farewell threads, in forums - in general - are a bit of a trope. Nothing wrong with them per-se, but they do end up being the subject of some ribbing because they are a little attention seeking.
2. The Tantrums featured a bunch of people demanding the moon in compensation for an overreaction to players abusing an error made by the game developers. WRG overreacted, but the affected players still did something wrong. However, many to this day are still trying to paint themselves as complete innocents who demand more and more in compensation for the "damage" caused by a harsh reaction to their actions. These tantrums featured threats to quit, and constant proclamations that the game "would not survive" because of the bans. Very few people actually quit over the bans, and some of the most vocal who claimed they would quit or stop spending money if they didn't get ______ are not only playing still, but obviously still spending money despite not getting ______.
3. The "retired" thing - Don't get me wrong, I do roll my eyes a little when I see active forum posters rocking a "Retired" tag in their username, but it makes sense a little. Forums are very social in nature, and even if you wanted to stop playing the game, you might still want to interact with people on the forums. However - "retired" people posting about they are "retired" but still FTMing crew? Come on...
4. I think this extends beyond this forum and is just a feature of Social Media itself, but for some reason people think that if they express their outrage online, their opinion will be "listened to." Why, soandso is mad and threatened to quit and stop spending money! WRG BETTER STOP AND PAY ATTENTION! Truth is, while they would prefer everyone post happy things online about the game, no one complaining on a message board (particularly when most of the posts on said message board are people complaining about every little thing) is going to make them blink much. A downturn in revenue, on the other hand, might. But, as we saw already, so many who threatened to stop spending money did not stop at all. I think their bottom line is fine.
End of the day - all of the tantrums and demands and complaints we've seen are just a bunch of people who believe their one opinion really is important in the grand scheme of things. Combining that with the standard eye-rolling reaction you get when people post a farewell thread ...
Ov (Overall) | Vo (Voyage) | Fa (Faction) | Ga (Gauntlet)
Sb (Ship Battle) | Bt (Boss Battle Traits) | Co (Collection) | (Cd (Cadet)
I think I disagree with this post just about in its entirety.
1. If people want quit, wish them well and let them be. You’re not accomplishing anything by basically calling them liars except by guaranteeing that this environment will remain toxic.
2. If I overreact in response to being wronged, I expect to face consequences. One of those consequences is dealing with the anger of others in response. It’s part of life. When you stop reacting to it, it goes away.
3. This might be the one thing I agree with. If you’re retired, don’t be getting first to max on new crew. Let others have that success.
4. While I think social media has far more drawbacks than benefits, I will say that when the bans occurred, we spoke and were listened to. They acknowledged their error and most people are moving forward (pending proof that TP is actually doing better). I did not spend until TP posted its apology, for example.
I believe there are a lot of improvements that TP needs to make, both internally and in Timelines. Since everyone has different experiences, I expect people to be bugged by different things and I try to respect the sentiments of those who are upset (e.g., Tuesday packs are terrible if you really want a specific crew, and I know of several people who have spent thousands of dil chasing a crew they wanted only to fail).
If you believe everyone’s opinion is unimportant, then logically your opinion doesn’t matter. Which means everything you say is essentially you yelling into the void.
As to OP, I wish you happiness in whatever you choose to pursue, even if that brings you back to Timelines.
I used to work in a casino. The similarities between STT players and casino players are insanely eerie. Right down to the "I'm never coming back/spending money here/etc." routines.
You could make a case for the game itself having a lot of common ground with casino games, but that's a discussion for another time 😆
Honestly though, all jokes aside, I'm starting to feel like this is deja vu from those days. Right down to the same whales making a big production as they storm off, "never to come back again".
I've seen players who spent more in an hour than I made in a week swear on their kids they were done forever. The ones who cause such a scene would always be back like clockwork the next day. It got to the point with some it was a running joke to say, "see you tomorrow".
I think Q is pranking me and bringing those people here. I can't escape them 🤣🤣🤣
"We apologize", but we don't understand why you're upset. (Denial)
"We apologize" that you got upset. (Narcissistic)
"We apologize", we were at fault. (Accountability)
"We apologize" for the coding error and are baffled about its effects. It's crazy! (Absorb and deflect)
For some, until they rectify their behavior, what they've done isn't enough.
To answer that final question, I would say it hasn’t ended... and there is already more than one thread where this sentiment can be expressed. As has been echoed in this thread, no one is saying forget it. However, let your actions speak for you and stand fast to that chosen avenue of action. Don’t spend, reduce playing time, or break from/leave the game if that is your plan (just as is mentioned in the OP). See if that leads anywhere, either for you or the company. LLAP with whatever you decide.
For the majority, your case was never particularly airtight because you did keep pressing that button, many of you knowingly. Secondly, you were at best, mildly inconvenienced by WRGs actions.
I strongly suspect that for people who are still 'mad' about this it's more about the fact that they felt humiliated, both because they were taken to task for their actions and because they realised that they don't have any power in these situations. You don't own anything in a game like this. There are no investments. And maybe that's the best reason to walk away if they can't handle that.
In the case of the OP, he wasn't even affected directly, presumably retirement had been on his mind anyway. As has been said before and will continue to be said, there are plenty of good reasons to stop playing or stop paying. Be mad about this if you want to be, but realise that most everyone else has moved on either because they've left already or because we're fine with it.
Yeah, there's definitely some of that. My favourite was someone who claimed to be doing chargebacks on everything they've ever bought from the game over the course of years, and thinking they were both morally and legally entitled to do so as they were unable to access their account for a day. Intangible items in a game with a finite lifespan will, sooner or later, be inaccessible to all of us. People should come to terms with that before opening their wallets.
OP's only committing to taking two weeks off! If that's such a big deal as to merit an announcement, stepping away is probably a healthy thing.
Players have gone before them and will continue to go after, for a multitude of reasons. Some will have more retirements than Terry Funk. If enough leaves, the game ends. There are plenty of other games out there.
In the scheme of things, I could not care in the slightest. I work in an area where I'm exposed to people's horrific, life-changing events every day. To see people getting this riled up over a game was mildly amusing at first, but it's now beyond tiresome. If it's that big a deal in someone's life, they would do well to step away for good and/or gain some perspective in life.
No matter how upset you were by this, I agree that those trying to get everything they ever paid for refunded were misguided, to put it politely. The ones who made taunting posts about this, then seemed shocked they were locked out entirely are a whole different level of stupidity 🙄
Imagine having a bad experience at a restaurant you eat at regularly, then going to your credit card company and trying to get every charge you ever made there refunded, dating back years. That's how ridiculous it is.
It would probably be in everyone's best interests to look at anything paid for here as an extended, hopefully long term rental. If the game shuts tomorrow, you don't get to keep anything.
Even the original leaving the game post was non-committal. They couldn't even commit to deleting the game! I'm not saying they don't have legitimate gripes, but how serious do you expect to be taken when you may come back?
@Calhoun, I did pop for the Terry Funk reference. It's extraordinarily on point. The first few times the Funker retired, people were sad. Most every time since, they couldn't even take it seriously. We knew he'd be back.
STT is a lot like the wrestling biz or the Mob. People say they are leaving, but almost no one ever does. As Funk would say, they're here...
How many customers do you think Caesars Palace would have if their TOS had a clause that said “we can stop the roulette wheel, stop card deals, stop slot spins and stop dice rolls after bets are made, but before those bets are paid”?
Check the TOS for tilting point.
Then look at their behavior, knee jerk reactions, shoddy quality control, etc. sorry, but it dosnt really elicit confidence in their ability to keep it all afloat.
You, and others can keep trying to deflect attention away from the core issue, but the issue will remain.
6-12 months this game will be gone.
Didn't you quit? 🤔
Oh, yes, that's right. You did.
Seems we got the answer to your question, though. The reason you're still here seems to be to engage others in petty pot stirring.
And this confirms it. You seem to be taking great joy in hoping that the game fails, so you can say "I told you so". Not sure what you hope to accomplish with that.
As for the first part of your most recent post, maybe you should really examine the fine print at a casino. You'd be surprised how much discretionary power they have. What TP did was wrong, but nothing like what you're suggesting. Not even close.
As for the TOS of this game, maybe you should go back and reread them.
No one is "deflecting" attention from anything. There have been countless posts, in numerous threads, discussing the errors of what happened. Perhaps you should actually read them.
Many are satisfied that TP has learned from those mistakes. Yes, not everyone is, but from posts since the apology, a lot are. You seem to want to ignore that, because it doesn't fit your narrative.
People aren't ignoring these issues, just because they don't agree with your POV. Your continuing to come on here to seemingly antagonise those who have chosen to continue playing serves no purpose.
I'd make you a bet that the game will not be gone in 6-12 months, as you claim it will be. However, I have little faith that you would actually honour it, based on your previous behaviour.
If you want to actually contribute to a productive conversation about what can be done to fix things, I hope you will stick around, regardless of whether you have stopped playing or not. But, if you're going to add nothing constructive to the discussion, perhaps you should find something better to do with your time.
Most of your post is just a giant straw man. Ill just say, i DID quit the game. I DID delete it, i have not logged back in or re installed. Im here because i still have hopes that this company will fix the important things. Until then, im going to keep making it clear to them that they are losing money.
Ive been breathing for more than ten years. If i had a nickel for every time someone surprised me with a metaphor that had no resemblance to reality, i would be swimming in chocolate.
I've already done a breakdown of the parts of the TOS that are relevant in the past. Go find it if you're that interested. I have no need to "prove you wrong".
I won't even waste my time on this nonsense. Suffice to say, if they were losing as much money as you claim, I'm sure they'd be aware of it. You "making it clear" makes absolutely no sense.
Agreed. That was one of the points of my post regarding working in a casino. We heard the same thing too. We would be shut in months. Yet, these same people still kept coming back, and the place still made money hand over fist.
How does that have "no semblance to reality"? You're far from the first to make these predictions. You aren't the first to be wrong about it, and you won't be the last.
If you've been breathing for more.than ten years, then why act like that towards @[DC] Picard Loves Reds ? Your comment is the one that is nonsense.