When something smells funny, you find S1 Ep.11 of Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy cartoon, discover the Moombas do (almost) exactly what the (everyone's fav.) STD space cow does, and ask the obvious: Did STD just copy a cartoon?
When something smells funny, you find S1 Ep.11 of Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy cartoon, discover the Moombas do (almost) exactly what the (everyone's fav.) STD space cow does, and ask the obvious: Did STD just copy a cartoon?
Well Enterprise ripped off a Microprose video game for an entire seasons arc, so why not?
Well this has been an extremely interesting and frankly amusing thread. I have to say, I see and partially agree with both sides in this conflict. There are things I absolutely despise about STD (which, by the way, I found adolescently humorous that the initials also stand for contagious diseases, which is exactly how I feel about Discovery some days) like the look of the Klingons and as silly as this may be to some of you, the use of the word f**k and its variations. However, there are also some things I actually like about the series. It occasionally has Vulcans and some Star Trek themes and equipment within it. Ok, so overall, the progenitor of this thread is right though. Discovery isn’t really Star Trek, at least not most of the time. It’s a sci-fi series with Star Trek affectations, and to me, more than anything, this is simply disappointing to me, ok, heartbreaking if I’m being brutally honest. Again though, there are some elements of Trek in the show, so I continue to watch it each week, hoping it will get better in the long run. And there have been rays of hope. Sarek and Georgiou were definitely good solid Trek characters and most of the time, Tilly has shined forth as a beacon of Trekiness, but still, I can’t help but think it’s being written by people trying to make something out of Trek that it’s not. I think these people have forgotten or never knew, that Star Trek is almost always parables, stories with a moral to impart to viewers. Whether it was about women’s rights or race equality, Trek though the years has often been there not to just entertain us, but to teach us, and that’s what really made it Star Trek. Unfortunately, Discovery so far lacks this moral backbone and all we get is some mildly entertaining science fiction with Star Trek props.
Weirdly enough, I’m also Vulcan Housewife. Also, RNGesus hates me, like really, REALLY hates me.
I can’t help but think it’s being written by people trying to make something out of Trek that it’s not. I think these people have forgotten or never knew, that Star Trek is almost always parables, stories with a moral to impart to viewers. Whether it was about women’s rights or race equality, Trek through the years has often been there not to just entertain us, but to teach us, and that’s what really made it Star Trek. Unfortunately, Discovery so far lacks this moral backbone and all we get is some mildly entertaining science fiction with Star Trek props.
Couldn't agree more with Zann's assessment of Discovery.
Yes, the STD has been renewed for a second season, so I guess all we can do now is hope and pray to whoever or whatever you believe in that it will simply get better. Also, thanks for the acknowledgment LCDR McCoy.
Weirdly enough, I’m also Vulcan Housewife. Also, RNGesus hates me, like really, REALLY hates me.
Yea I think I'm giving up on Discovery now. I've given it a fair chance after 6 episodes and it's absolutely terrible.
I wouldn't mind if it was terrible for the first 6 episodes but it was still Star Trek, that I can push through, TNG's first 6 episodes were terrible too. But this isn't Star Trek, and I don't see how it can become anything like the Trek universe I know and love anytime in the future.
I gave up after episode 4. I went into the show with no expectations because STD in my mind was going to wind up like Phantom Menace (big hype followed by infinite let down)...which it did. I knew the SJW super lefties were at the helm and expected a train-wreck but hoped I would be wrong. What I got was super lefty BS with a main character that was completely unlikeable. The main problem is the complete disregard for the fans. The writers have given a giant middle finger to the actual fans by not giving us anything more than casual nods to the franchise (ie "Oh look it's Sarek" followed by 40 minutes of unwatchable garbage). The writers were so busy catering to the lefty Hollywood liberals with all of their "women having a conversation that doesn't involve a man" and "oh look in the future everyone is gay" or "Oh look gender is fluid because she has a dudes name Michael". The writers were so consumed with making this an Amy Schumer audience approved show that they forgot the license they were given was STAR TREK. What the writers gave us was an odd hybrid of Starship Trooper meatheadedness mixed with ultra SJW messages, and casually sprinkled in arbitrarily are names we all recognize like "Federation" and "Klingon". Do the Klingon ships look anything like what we know to be Klingon ships? The answer is no because the fans aren't relevant. Star Trek is about equality so I don't have an issue with everyone in STD being a minority, female, or gay with the exception of the nearly villainous Captain; but I do have an issue with how this was done. Other Star Trek series have delivered this diversity and equality message to good effect with Sisko, Janeway, Chakotay...the list goes on but there was a clear message that EVERYONE was equal. The lefty message in Hollywood now is not so inclusive it's "white male straight bad everything else good" and STD clearly delivers this message. I was wrong earlier when I compared this to the Phantom Menace because I own a DVD copy of it as part of my collection. I will not be purchasing this burning dumpster of a show and I airlocked all STD cards over this month. I refuse to acknowledge THIS as Star Trek. The Star Trek I know is gone and I think a lot of others agree. It's dead Jim.
The Star Trek I know is gone and I think a lot of others agree. It's dead Jim.
I don't think the Star Trek I know is dead, tho it is definitely not present in any of today's offerings unless you count the way they use names and characters from canon to suit their own needs.
The Trek I'm familiar with and love has been shuffled off to some shady rest home ala Abe Simpson while the unscrupulous grandkids throw parties with grampa's Old Age Pension
I gave up after episode 4. I went into the show with no expectations because STD in my mind was going to wind up like Phantom Menace (big hype followed by infinite let down)...which it did. I knew the SJW super lefties were at the helm and expected a train-wreck but hoped I would be wrong. What I got was super lefty **** with a main character that was completely unlikeable.
I don't feel like she's unlikeable now. I hated her the first 2-3 episodes though. Now she's just middle of the road for me. Not likeable, but not unlikeable.
The main problem is the complete disregard for the fans. The writers have given a giant middle finger to the actual fans by not giving us anything more than casual nods to the franchise (ie "Oh look it's Sarek" followed by 40 minutes of unwatchable garbage).
I think this is pretty spot-on though. As many of us has said, Trek in name only, with occasional nods to Trek but still isn't Trek through and through.
The writers were so busy catering to the lefty Hollywood liberals with all of their "women having a conversation that doesn't involve a man" and "oh look in the future everyone is gay" or "Oh look gender is fluid because she has a dudes name Michael". The writers were so consumed with making this an Amy Schumer audience approved show that they forgot the license they were given was STAR TREK.
We don't really know. I don't know if the Bechdel test (which I agree is a terrible test as it puts quantity over quality) was really a guideline for this show.
And giving a typical male name to a female, doesn't present the message to me that gender is fluid, just that names shouldn't be a gendered thing. Which I'm neither here nor there about, since personally I love traditionally masculine names ending in -us and traditionally feminine names ending in -ia or -a.
And... "everyone is gay" except not, only Stamets and Culber are not heterosexual. Are they gay? Are they bi? No news yet in-show. So that part of your message was a bit too hyperbolic.
I do think some of the people against this show are seeing political demons where there aren't really any.
What the writers gave us was an odd hybrid of Starship Trooper meatheadedness mixed with ultra SJW messages, and casually sprinkled in arbitrarily are names we all recognize like "Federation" and "Klingon". Do the Klingon ships look anything like what we know to be Klingon ships? The answer is no because the fans aren't relevant. Star Trek is about equality so I don't have an issue with everyone in STD being a minority, female, or gay with the exception of the nearly villainous Captain; but I do have an issue with how this was done. Other Star Trek series have delivered this diversity and equality message to good effect with Sisko, Janeway, Chakotay...the list goes on but there was a clear message that EVERYONE was equal.
I completely agree. The diversity was something commented on a lot by writers/producers before the show aired, so we know it is a big point for them. But you're right, previous shows have tons of diversity and it didn't feel shoehorned in because it was never "oooh looky here guys, look how diverse we are being by having Asian, Latina, Black, and Native characters in our cast, oh and look a woman captain". Using Voyager as that example, people did talk about Janeway's pivotal role as first female captain but that fact wasn't oversold, and in-show because it wasn't oversold either, it felt so natural and unquestionable.
The lefty message in Hollywood now is not so inclusive it's "white male straight bad everything else good" and STD clearly delivers this message. I was wrong earlier when I compared this to the Phantom Menace because I own a DVD copy of it as part of my collection. I will not be purchasing this burning dumpster of a show and I airlocked all STD cards over this month. I refuse to acknowledge THIS as Star Trek. The Star Trek I know is gone and I think a lot of others agree. It's dead Jim.
I feel like I'm reading qxqx all over again with this "white males are being excoriated" deal lol. Did you get a new account lol?
In all seriousness though, I think it is a valid point to think about how there is a trend of "white straight male = worst human subset" not just in Hollywood but in the general sphere of left-side politics. But Discovery is not that. I feel like it is a hard reach at this point to make a substantial case that Discovery is onboard the straight white male hate train. I just don't see it.
Now when or if Discovery has a scene where Lorca or some other white straight guy is arguing with a non-white person and that person goes "you're a white male" shut up, then I'll say yeah the show has officially jumped on that disgusting trend. But until it shows me something like that, then no, I am not inclined to agree with that analysis of this show.
I still don't like Discovery but I'm willing to see where it takes me for the time being. If I'll continue onto the latter half of the season, or to season two, remains to be seen.
Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
On 41 main characters across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
71% are male
29% are female
100% are heterosexual (that we know of)
0% are homosexual/bisexual
In the world today the gender ratio is about fifty fifty and there's at least 3 to 5% gay or bi people
Now on 30 humans (or half humans) again across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
70% are white
17% are black
10% are asian
3% are native american
0% are from middle east / india
In the world today:
17% are white
15% are black
31% are asian
4% are native american
25% are from middle east / india
This means that:
Males, heterosexuals and white people are way overrepresented
and that:
Females are underrepresented
Gay/Bi are waaay underrepresented
Asians/Middle East/Indian people are waaaaaaaaaay underrepresented
On 41 main characters across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
71% are male
29% are female
100% are heterosexual (that we know of)
0% are homosexual/bisexual
In the world today the gender ratio is about fifty fifty and there's at least 3 to 5% gay or bi people
Now on 30 humans (or half humans) again across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
70% are white
17% are black
10% are asian
3% are native american
0% are from middle east / india
In the world today:
17% are white
15% are black
31% are asian
4% are native american
25% are from middle east / india
This means that:
Males, heterosexuals and white people are way overrepresented
and that:
Females are underrepresented
Gay/Bi are waaay underrepresented
Asians/Middle East/Indian people are waaaaaaaaaay underrepresented
Small correction.
Bashir is of Middle Eastern/Indian descent.
It would really help to know who you counted for what as well.
Also, Jadzia is more along the lines of bisexual given her almost tryst with a past Trill lover from another lifetime who was female in her Jadzia lifetime.
Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
How are women underrepresented in previous series?
Uhura
Nurse Chapel
Counselor Troi
Dr. Crusher
Yar
Dax 1 and 2
Kira
Kako
Janeway
Torres
7 of 9
Kes
Bashir and I actually share the same nationality.
Regardless of all of this STD shoehorns this diversity into the show in the same way that companies shoehorn a diverse array of employees into their company based on their race or orientation first and their qualifications second. This was obviously an attempt to say "look at all of these diverse people" at the expense of the story or any actual thought towards storyline. This was done in the new Star Trek Beyond movie as well when they made Sulu gay because George Takei is gay. It was an attempt to shoehorn a homosexual character into the movie which really didn't add anything to the movie. The funny thing is Mr. Takei thought it was a bad idea because it didn't add anything to the story. The golden era of Star Trek TNG, DS9, and Voyager weren't heavy on sexuality because it isn't very important. What people do in the privacy of their bedrooms doesn't have a whole lot to do with space exploration. In the 1960s during the sexual revolution it was part of the culture to sleep around which we see with Captain Kirk. However, it is very rare that any of the cast of TNG, DS9, or Voyager is doing anything sexual with the exception of Riker which has a standing appointment with HR every week on the Enterprise D.
Bottom-line STD is a millennial generation Z attempt at Star Trek that fails at being Star Trek.
On 41 main characters across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
71% are male
29% are female
Now on 30 humans (or half humans) again across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
70% are white
17% are black
10% are asian
3% are native american
0% are from middle east / india
Where exactly are you getting these numbers? Are you counting characters like Odo as being a white man because the actor who played him was? That is not exactly fair.
Lets count the white men.
TOS
White Males
Kirk
McCoy
Scotty
Chekov
Non-White Men, aliens, women
Uhura
Sulu
Spock
Chapel
Rand
Ratio 4/9 White Males to others
TNG
White Males
Picard
Riker
Wesley I guess
Non-White Men, aliens, women
Dr. Crusher
Counselor Troi
Lt Yar
Mr. Worf
Data
Dr Polaski
Ratio 1/3 White Males to others
DS9
White Males
Chief O'Brian
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Bashir
Captain Sisko
Jake Sisko
Kira
Jadzia Dax
Ezree Dax
Odo
Kako
Garak
Ratio 1/9 White Males to others
Voyager
White Males
Paris
The Doctor I guess
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Janeway
Chakotay
Kim
Torres
7 of 9
Kes
Tuvok
Nelix
Ratio 1/4 White Males to others
White men are never the majority in any of the series.
I forgot about Bashir and counted him as "white" male, my bad.
I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear, I meant "white people" were overrepresented and "male" were overrepresented not "white male" specifically.
I counted only main characters (actors who were credited as main) so no Chapel, Rand, Pulaski, Garak and Keiko. For ethnicity, I didn't count aliens of course, only humans and half humans like Spock and Troi.
I also didn't say anything about each serie individually but rather the entire franchise (except for Discovery).
For Dax being bisexual, well it depends. The only woman we ever saw her in love with was her past wife and at that time Dax was her husband. That love transcended their lives so they still were in love even though they were both women. I guess we could say she was the character closest to what we think of being bisexual.
White guys
Archer
Trip
Reed
Hayes if you argue his main crew like presence in season 3
Non-white guys, women, and aliens
Travis
Hoshi
T'Pol
Phlox
And if you add in Discovery it goes like this...
White guys
Lorca
Stamets
Non-white guys, women, and aliens
Saru
Georgiou if you want to add her
Burnham
Ash
Tilly
Culber
Landry if you want to count her
I do think Nad Hal was counting based on the actors' races, not the race/species of the characters.
But...that said we have to consider this...
Why are we counting white men as one group, then lumping literally every other person (race, sex, species) into one group?
A Black man is not an Asian man, an Indian human woman is not a Vulcan.
If we go from that idea that white men are over-represented in ratio to all non-white, non-male types, then the case could be made that white male representation in most series is stronger than black male representation or Asian female representation, etc.
If we look at TOS then we have 4 White men, 1 Asian man, 1 Black woman, 2 White women, 1 Non-human. That is a ratio of 4:1, 4:1, 4:2, 4:1
TNG = 3 White men, 1 Black man, 3 White women, 3 Non-human/not fully humans. So those ratios are 3:1, 3:3, 3:3. That's a much more balanced crew I think if we are holding white men as the standard to which everything needs to be compared. Which is a bit silly if you ask me but we will run with it for this discussion.
DS9 = 1 White man, 2 Black men, 1 Indian man (I still have never been 100% sure what ST considers Bashir to be racially), and 8 Non-humans (counting Nog and Rom). Now our ratio is much less human balanced. But the white man to others ratio is 1:2, 1:1, 1:8
VOY = 1 White man, 1 Asian man, 2 White women, 1 Latina woman, 1 Native man, 4 Non-humans (I count doc as not white because since he is not human, he really would have no racial identity pertaining to humans, remember race is more than skin colour, there is an identity in race for many people). Ratios are 1:1, 1:2, 1:1, 1:1, 1:4, that's rather diverse.
ENT = 4 White men, 1 Asian woman, 1 Black man, 2 Non-humans. Ratios 4:1, 4:1, 4:2, about as diverse as TOS crew really.
DIS = 2 White men, 1 Black woman, 1 White woman, 1 Latino man, 1 Middle Eastern man (I think that's what Ash is?), 1 Non-human. So ratios are 2:1, 2:1, 2:1, 2:1, 2:1 which is actually kind of balanced. The white men are ahead but only slightly here. I didn't count Landry or Georgiou because they were not in for long enough to be main crew for the series.
Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
Dr. Crusher
Counselor Troi
Lt Yar
Mr. Worf
Data
Dr Polaski
Ratio 1/3 White Males to others
DS9
White Males
Chief O'Brian
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Bashir
Captain Sisko
Jake Sisko
Kira
Jadzia Dax
Ezree Dax
Odo
Kako
Garak
Ratio 1/9 White Males to others
Voyager
White Males
Paris
The Doctor I guess
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Janeway
Chakotay
Kim
Torres
7 of 9
Kes
Tuvok
Nelix
Ratio 1/4 White Males to others
White men are never the majority in any of the series.
That is an interesting argument. Of course, I couldn't help noticing that you once counted Holograms as non-aliens and Androids as aliens (and... really? Rand?) but besides.
Let's count Enterprise, shall we?
Enterprise
White Males
Archer
Tucker
Reed
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
T'Pol
Sato
Mayweather
Phlox
Ratio 3/7 White males to others
And now Discovery
Discovery
White Males
Lorca
Stamets
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Burnham
Tilly
Culber
Tyler
Saru
Ratio 2/7 (35%) White males to others
Counting like this, Discovery is "much better" than DS9 (by a whopping 24%), "much better" than Voyager, and "slightly better" than TNG. It is beaten only by ENT (which you don't even count) and TOS.
So... why are you not hailing this series as being "finally" a bold step in the direction of the representation of white males? According to your way of counting, this is the third-best Trek series, a "much needed improvement" on the "treating white males like trash" done during the 80s and the 90s (TNG, DS9, VOY).
Yes, I am using quotation marks because I don't think there's any merit with this argument. You can have any opinion on Discovery that you want, but this demographic argument is just trash.
Star Trek had always a very multi-ethnic cast (with your reckoned 11% for DS9). That never correlated with the quality of a Star Trek show (see Enterprise' white failure).
Discovery, in its demographics, is not exceptional, and not worse than some previous Trek.
For your comments about homosexuality, it is not all about sexuality but also love and affection and as you know there were plenty of it on all the shows. Each single character of all series had at least one relationship or love interest and ALL were straight (except that one for Dax). The fact that finally there is one true gay relationship on the show with one of the main character is an acknowlegement for gay people that in the future, it will become normal like any other relationship, something that is still not the case in many parts of the world including the Western world where many people still has prejudice against homosexuality.
I forgot about Bashir and counted him as "white" male, my bad.
I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear, I meant "white people" were overrepresented and "male" were overrepresented not "white male" specifically.
I counted only main characters (actors who were credited as main) so no Chapel, Rand, Pulaski, Garak and Keiko. For ethnicity, I didn't count aliens of course, only humans and half humans like Spock and Troi.
I also didn't say anything about each serie individually but rather the entire franchise (except for Discovery).
The other Star Trek series have reflected a fair mix of races. The fact that more actors/actresses are white than not is a reflection on the populous of the country. Star Trek was made for people within the United States. There are also European fans which come from white countries as well. The United States is a majority white country. It isn't a problem it simply a matter of geography and settlement. Before you say that it is, think is it a problem that Japan is a majority Japanese country? Is it a problem that Sudan is a majority black country? No. There are majorities in every country and it is a reflection of geography nothing else. Nobody is saying that it is a problem that Hispanics are the majority on Mexican television shows or that Chinese are over represented on Chinese television shows. It isn't a problem that there are too many women on the View or that there aren't enough straight people on the L Word. Like it or not Star Trek is predominately enjoyed by white men. If you would like to argue this I suggest visiting Shore Leave the largest Trek convention every July in Maryland and do a head count of all the white men in the audience. It is not a whites only show by any means; however, the majority of the fan base just happens to be white straight males. This is evident from every convention I have ever attended and seen wall to wall white people. I myself am not white but I accept the reality that Star Trek is a western world show which has the majority of it's fan base as white people. Other Trek series in the past reflected this fan base fairly while also representing minorities.
So... why are you not hailing this series as being "finally" a bold step in the direction of the representation of white males? According to your way of counting, this is the third-best Trek series, a "much needed improvement" on the "treating white males like trash" done during the 80s and the 90s (TNG, DS9, VOY).
You obviously didn't understand anything I am trying to argue for and missed the entire point of the argument.
Comments
Well Enterprise ripped off a Microprose video game for an entire seasons arc, so why not?
How so?
The Xindi races = Master of Orion. Even the Avians being extinct was right on the heels of the Beta and release of MOO3.
(Posting it in case someone here hasn't seen the news yet).
Yay
We want to take the right amount of time and don’t want to rush. Ideally [it could arrive] on the early side of 2019.
Couldn't agree more with Zann's assessment of Discovery.
That's a shame.
I wouldn't mind if it was terrible for the first 6 episodes but it was still Star Trek, that I can push through, TNG's first 6 episodes were terrible too. But this isn't Star Trek, and I don't see how it can become anything like the Trek universe I know and love anytime in the future.
I don't think the Star Trek I know is dead, tho it is definitely not present in any of today's offerings unless you count the way they use names and characters from canon to suit their own needs.
The Trek I'm familiar with and love has been shuffled off to some shady rest home ala Abe Simpson while the unscrupulous grandkids throw parties with grampa's Old Age Pension
True enough. And Amazon Instant Video and CBS All Access and Hulu, oh, and also Vudu and iTunes, lol.
I don't feel like she's unlikeable now. I hated her the first 2-3 episodes though. Now she's just middle of the road for me. Not likeable, but not unlikeable.
I think this is pretty spot-on though. As many of us has said, Trek in name only, with occasional nods to Trek but still isn't Trek through and through.
We don't really know. I don't know if the Bechdel test (which I agree is a terrible test as it puts quantity over quality) was really a guideline for this show.
And giving a typical male name to a female, doesn't present the message to me that gender is fluid, just that names shouldn't be a gendered thing. Which I'm neither here nor there about, since personally I love traditionally masculine names ending in -us and traditionally feminine names ending in -ia or -a.
And... "everyone is gay" except not, only Stamets and Culber are not heterosexual. Are they gay? Are they bi? No news yet in-show. So that part of your message was a bit too hyperbolic.
I do think some of the people against this show are seeing political demons where there aren't really any.
I completely agree. The diversity was something commented on a lot by writers/producers before the show aired, so we know it is a big point for them. But you're right, previous shows have tons of diversity and it didn't feel shoehorned in because it was never "oooh looky here guys, look how diverse we are being by having Asian, Latina, Black, and Native characters in our cast, oh and look a woman captain". Using Voyager as that example, people did talk about Janeway's pivotal role as first female captain but that fact wasn't oversold, and in-show because it wasn't oversold either, it felt so natural and unquestionable.
I feel like I'm reading qxqx all over again with this "white males are being excoriated" deal lol. Did you get a new account lol?
In all seriousness though, I think it is a valid point to think about how there is a trend of "white straight male = worst human subset" not just in Hollywood but in the general sphere of left-side politics. But Discovery is not that. I feel like it is a hard reach at this point to make a substantial case that Discovery is onboard the straight white male hate train. I just don't see it.
Now when or if Discovery has a scene where Lorca or some other white straight guy is arguing with a non-white person and that person goes "you're a white male" shut up, then I'll say yeah the show has officially jumped on that disgusting trend. But until it shows me something like that, then no, I am not inclined to agree with that analysis of this show.
I still don't like Discovery but I'm willing to see where it takes me for the time being. If I'll continue onto the latter half of the season, or to season two, remains to be seen.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
On 41 main characters across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
71% are male
29% are female
100% are heterosexual (that we know of)
0% are homosexual/bisexual
In the world today the gender ratio is about fifty fifty and there's at least 3 to 5% gay or bi people
Now on 30 humans (or half humans) again across all 5 pre-Discovery star trek series
70% are white
17% are black
10% are asian
3% are native american
0% are from middle east / india
In the world today:
17% are white
15% are black
31% are asian
4% are native american
25% are from middle east / india
This means that:
Males, heterosexuals and white people are way overrepresented
and that:
Females are underrepresented
Gay/Bi are waaay underrepresented
Asians/Middle East/Indian people are waaaaaaaaaay underrepresented
Small correction.
Bashir is of Middle Eastern/Indian descent.
It would really help to know who you counted for what as well.
Also, Jadzia is more along the lines of bisexual given her almost tryst with a past Trill lover from another lifetime who was female in her Jadzia lifetime.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
How are women underrepresented in previous series?
Uhura
Nurse Chapel
Counselor Troi
Dr. Crusher
Yar
Dax 1 and 2
Kira
Kako
Janeway
Torres
7 of 9
Kes
Bashir and I actually share the same nationality.
Regardless of all of this STD shoehorns this diversity into the show in the same way that companies shoehorn a diverse array of employees into their company based on their race or orientation first and their qualifications second. This was obviously an attempt to say "look at all of these diverse people" at the expense of the story or any actual thought towards storyline. This was done in the new Star Trek Beyond movie as well when they made Sulu gay because George Takei is gay. It was an attempt to shoehorn a homosexual character into the movie which really didn't add anything to the movie. The funny thing is Mr. Takei thought it was a bad idea because it didn't add anything to the story. The golden era of Star Trek TNG, DS9, and Voyager weren't heavy on sexuality because it isn't very important. What people do in the privacy of their bedrooms doesn't have a whole lot to do with space exploration. In the 1960s during the sexual revolution it was part of the culture to sleep around which we see with Captain Kirk. However, it is very rare that any of the cast of TNG, DS9, or Voyager is doing anything sexual with the exception of Riker which has a standing appointment with HR every week on the Enterprise D.
Bottom-line STD is a millennial generation Z attempt at Star Trek that fails at being Star Trek.
Where exactly are you getting these numbers? Are you counting characters like Odo as being a white man because the actor who played him was? That is not exactly fair.
Lets count the white men.
TOS
White Males
Kirk
McCoy
Scotty
Chekov
Non-White Men, aliens, women
Uhura
Sulu
Spock
Chapel
Rand
Ratio 4/9 White Males to others
TNG
White Males
Picard
Riker
Wesley I guess
Non-White Men, aliens, women
Dr. Crusher
Counselor Troi
Lt Yar
Mr. Worf
Data
Dr Polaski
Ratio 1/3 White Males to others
DS9
White Males
Chief O'Brian
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Bashir
Captain Sisko
Jake Sisko
Kira
Jadzia Dax
Ezree Dax
Odo
Kako
Garak
Ratio 1/9 White Males to others
Voyager
White Males
Paris
The Doctor I guess
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Janeway
Chakotay
Kim
Torres
7 of 9
Kes
Tuvok
Nelix
Ratio 1/4 White Males to others
White men are never the majority in any of the series.
I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear, I meant "white people" were overrepresented and "male" were overrepresented not "white male" specifically.
I counted only main characters (actors who were credited as main) so no Chapel, Rand, Pulaski, Garak and Keiko. For ethnicity, I didn't count aliens of course, only humans and half humans like Spock and Troi.
I also didn't say anything about each serie individually but rather the entire franchise (except for Discovery).
White guys
Archer
Trip
Reed
Hayes if you argue his main crew like presence in season 3
Non-white guys, women, and aliens
Travis
Hoshi
T'Pol
Phlox
And if you add in Discovery it goes like this...
White guys
Lorca
Stamets
Non-white guys, women, and aliens
Saru
Georgiou if you want to add her
Burnham
Ash
Tilly
Culber
Landry if you want to count her
I do think Nad Hal was counting based on the actors' races, not the race/species of the characters.
But...that said we have to consider this...
Why are we counting white men as one group, then lumping literally every other person (race, sex, species) into one group?
A Black man is not an Asian man, an Indian human woman is not a Vulcan.
If we go from that idea that white men are over-represented in ratio to all non-white, non-male types, then the case could be made that white male representation in most series is stronger than black male representation or Asian female representation, etc.
If we look at TOS then we have 4 White men, 1 Asian man, 1 Black woman, 2 White women, 1 Non-human. That is a ratio of 4:1, 4:1, 4:2, 4:1
TNG = 3 White men, 1 Black man, 3 White women, 3 Non-human/not fully humans. So those ratios are 3:1, 3:3, 3:3. That's a much more balanced crew I think if we are holding white men as the standard to which everything needs to be compared. Which is a bit silly if you ask me but we will run with it for this discussion.
DS9 = 1 White man, 2 Black men, 1 Indian man (I still have never been 100% sure what ST considers Bashir to be racially), and 8 Non-humans (counting Nog and Rom). Now our ratio is much less human balanced. But the white man to others ratio is 1:2, 1:1, 1:8
VOY = 1 White man, 1 Asian man, 2 White women, 1 Latina woman, 1 Native man, 4 Non-humans (I count doc as not white because since he is not human, he really would have no racial identity pertaining to humans, remember race is more than skin colour, there is an identity in race for many people). Ratios are 1:1, 1:2, 1:1, 1:1, 1:4, that's rather diverse.
ENT = 4 White men, 1 Asian woman, 1 Black man, 2 Non-humans. Ratios 4:1, 4:1, 4:2, about as diverse as TOS crew really.
DIS = 2 White men, 1 Black woman, 1 White woman, 1 Latino man, 1 Middle Eastern man (I think that's what Ash is?), 1 Non-human. So ratios are 2:1, 2:1, 2:1, 2:1, 2:1 which is actually kind of balanced. The white men are ahead but only slightly here. I didn't count Landry or Georgiou because they were not in for long enough to be main crew for the series.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
That is an interesting argument. Of course, I couldn't help noticing that you once counted Holograms as non-aliens and Androids as aliens (and... really? Rand?) but besides.
Let's count Enterprise, shall we?
Enterprise
White Males
Archer
Tucker
Reed
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
T'Pol
Sato
Mayweather
Phlox
Ratio 3/7 White males to others
And now Discovery
Discovery
White Males
Lorca
Stamets
Non-White Males, aliens, and women
Burnham
Tilly
Culber
Tyler
Saru
Ratio 2/7 (35%) White males to others
Counting like this, Discovery is "much better" than DS9 (by a whopping 24%), "much better" than Voyager, and "slightly better" than TNG. It is beaten only by ENT (which you don't even count) and TOS.
So... why are you not hailing this series as being "finally" a bold step in the direction of the representation of white males? According to your way of counting, this is the third-best Trek series, a "much needed improvement" on the "treating white males like trash" done during the 80s and the 90s (TNG, DS9, VOY).
Yes, I am using quotation marks because I don't think there's any merit with this argument. You can have any opinion on Discovery that you want, but this demographic argument is just trash.
Star Trek had always a very multi-ethnic cast (with your reckoned 11% for DS9). That never correlated with the quality of a Star Trek show (see Enterprise' white failure).
Discovery, in its demographics, is not exceptional, and not worse than some previous Trek.
The other Star Trek series have reflected a fair mix of races. The fact that more actors/actresses are white than not is a reflection on the populous of the country. Star Trek was made for people within the United States. There are also European fans which come from white countries as well. The United States is a majority white country. It isn't a problem it simply a matter of geography and settlement. Before you say that it is, think is it a problem that Japan is a majority Japanese country? Is it a problem that Sudan is a majority black country? No. There are majorities in every country and it is a reflection of geography nothing else. Nobody is saying that it is a problem that Hispanics are the majority on Mexican television shows or that Chinese are over represented on Chinese television shows. It isn't a problem that there are too many women on the View or that there aren't enough straight people on the L Word. Like it or not Star Trek is predominately enjoyed by white men. If you would like to argue this I suggest visiting Shore Leave the largest Trek convention every July in Maryland and do a head count of all the white men in the audience. It is not a whites only show by any means; however, the majority of the fan base just happens to be white straight males. This is evident from every convention I have ever attended and seen wall to wall white people. I myself am not white but I accept the reality that Star Trek is a western world show which has the majority of it's fan base as white people. Other Trek series in the past reflected this fan base fairly while also representing minorities.
No let's not bring up Enterprise [train-wreck] to defend Discovery [Chernobyl].
.......
You obviously didn't understand anything I am trying to argue for and missed the entire point of the argument.