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Do you like Michael Burnham?

A fellow Trekker told me today no one likes Michael Burnham and she has ruined the show. I replied that I like her and I was told I'm in a very small minority.
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Do you like Michael Burnham? 55 votes

Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
43%
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Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
56%
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Comments

  • Sulu's HusbandSulu's Husband ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12
    I would answer yes to both questions, but there is way too much angst and crying.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    Michael Burnham is the reason I and a lot of people I know don't watch the show anymore. But of course, we are going to sort into our own circles. There must be at the very least sufficient audience to keep making the show, and I don't dislike Discovery in general, I just got fed up with the bad writing, mostly focused on Burnham. Each to their own though, I watch everything else. I haven't yet encountered someone who has seen it that doesn't like SNW, but I am sure they exist!
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12
    Pity there aren’t any middle-ground options to choose from, since I personally feel the answer lies between those extremes.

    From the time the show was announced, they said it was going to be a departure from the typical ST top-down perspective, where the show revolved around the captain. It was always going to be a Burnham-centric show, for better or worse.

    At the show’s best, Burnham has been a likeable character, especially when the rest of the crew was more involved (I didn’t know most of their names for most of the first two seasons, but I think that was meant to mimic how long it took Burnham to integrate into the crew… or maybe I give the writers far too much credit). At the show’s worst, there have been many things that infuriated me more than the Burnham character.

    Over time, I have come to enjoy the show and appreciate Burnham more than I did at the start. Overall, I am meh on Burnham, and consider Disco to be the weakest ST series by far. But it’s all subjective and I would never hate on anybody who loves the show and/or Burnham.
  • My problem with Burnham is that so many times, it's been "Burnham is right because the writers want her to be right", not because of anything the character did. There were times she did things that anybody else in Starfleet would have been busted for, or she makes decisions that are clearly not the best -- dare I say -- logical choices, but she gets away with all of it because she's Burnham.

    Almost across the board I like all the other characters, though, so I stick with the show.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    Have many of you tried to rewatch the earlier seasons of Discovery? I tried, and it's on the rewatch that Burnham becomes an order of magnitude more irritating because she's just getting in the way of the stuff you want to watch, which is the other characters and their arcs. You get tons of ponderous shots on her (usually crying) and the camera barely stays still to keep any other characters in frame long enough to get a proper reaction shot.

    This is not Sonequa Martin Greens fault of course, though it must be something in her contract that made so many season 3 episodes take such massive turns to make sure she solved the episode. I still can't get over her stopping Stamets from trying to save his husband (while crying) when that is *exactly* what she would have done. Dreadful writing, or dreadful character with a solipsistic god complex.
  • EnderWEnderW ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
    If there is one thing that will bring Trek fans together, it is the view that the newest Star Trek is terrible and a betrayal of the franchise and all it stands for. Happened with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and now DISCO. I have come to just ignore it and embrace what I like. And I like DISCO and Burnham. And LDs and SNW and Prodigy. Truly a Star Trek renaissance right now and I'm super happy.
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  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
    My problem with Burnham is that so many times, it's been "Burnham is right because the writers want her to be right", not because of anything the character did. There were times she did things that anybody else in Starfleet would have been busted for, or she makes decisions that are clearly not the best -- dare I say -- logical choices, but she gets away with all of it because she's Burnham.

    Almost across the board I like all the other characters, though, so I stick with the show.

    This reminds me. I was just watching the latest season of Jack Ryan. I commented to a friend how tired I was of the trope, government agent believes X, government refuses to believe him, so agent goes rogue and is eventually proven right. A number of seasons of 24 featured the same trope with Jack Bauer going rogue. Yet somehow the fan reaction is always, "why won't they just listen to Jack". I wonder what's different about Michael Burnham that some fans seem bothered when she disagrees with orders and goes rogue.
  • Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
    Personally I like both the actress and the character she plays - the question did get me thinking who is the most annoying main character is Star Trek history - I suppose a lot will say Wesley Crusher or maybe Neelix? Neither bother me particularly but I can see why they would get high votes. I always felt sorry for Dominic Keating's Malcolm Reed character as they never seemed to know what to do with him- apart from him whinging about something or other!! I will have to have a good think while the Mrs is out doing her Yoga!!
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13
    Like what you like… Don’t like what you don’t like… Who cares what anyone else thinks? The opinion that matters is your own in this regard.
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  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    EnderW wrote: »
    If there is one thing that will bring Trek fans together, it is the view that the newest Star Trek is terrible and a betrayal of the franchise and all it stands for. Happened with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and now DISCO. I have come to just ignore it and embrace what I like. And I like DISCO and Burnham. And LDs and SNW and Prodigy. Truly a Star Trek renaissance right now and I'm super happy.

    That's not what's going on here at all right now. Find me someone who doesn't love Strange New Worlds. Or Prodigy for that matter. Lower Decks is also super popular. Discovery is just the weakest of the modern Star Treks. I don't think that's even remotely controversial.

    I have given up watching it, after 3 seasons and after it was removed from Netflix so I'd have to put in effort to find it. I would watch it if it was in front of me. I find it frustrating, not because it's all bad, but because it's often good, and then they make the dumb choice. There has to be room for nuance in the criticism of Star Trek, it can't just be all haters gonna hate.

    And of course, people need to separate 'I enjoy it' from 'it is good'. The Wire is exceptionally good, but I couldn't watch it. Smallville is absolutely terrible, but I watched all 10 seasons of it and enjoyed a lot of it. I would argue that no matter how much you enjoy Discovery that it is objectively poorly written at times and it definitely does bother me that we as a community can't agree on that simple element.
  • Zombie Squirrel Zombie Squirrel ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13
    Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    I wish the answer options just would have been a simple „Yes“ or „No“.

    While i dislike her character(or the writing for her character) she hasn t ruined
    Disco for me(i still watch it and enjoy it)
    but i m convienced Disco would just do fine(better) even without her.
    Saru has been the way better and more earned option as a Captain.
  • Thurthorad wrote: »
    EnderW wrote: »
    If there is one thing that will bring Trek fans together, it is the view that the newest Star Trek is terrible and a betrayal of the franchise and all it stands for. Happened with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and now DISCO. I have come to just ignore it and embrace what I like. And I like DISCO and Burnham. And LDs and SNW and Prodigy. Truly a Star Trek renaissance right now and I'm super happy.

    That's not what's going on here at all right now. Find me someone who doesn't love Strange New Worlds. Or Prodigy for that matter. Lower Decks is also super popular. Discovery is just the weakest of the modern Star Treks. I don't think that's even remotely controversial.

    I have given up watching it, after 3 seasons and after it was removed from Netflix so I'd have to put in effort to find it. I would watch it if it was in front of me. I find it frustrating, not because it's all bad, but because it's often good, and then they make the dumb choice. There has to be room for nuance in the criticism of Star Trek, it can't just be all haters gonna hate.

    That is just your opinion, not a fact
    There are plenty on here & my fleet too who can't stand the "super popular" LD
  • I wish the answer options just would have been a simple „Yes“ or „No“.

    While i dislike her character(or the writing for her character) she hasn t ruined
    Disco for me(i still watch it and enjoy it)
    but i m convienced Disco would just do fine(better) even without her.
    Saru has been the way better and more earned option as a Captain.

    Life is not black & white. There are plenty of grey areas.
    Because there were only 2 choices, I chose not to vote. A middle option should have been included IMO
  • Shy KhanShy Khan ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
    Great character. Talented actor. When you grow up only seeing shadows on the wall of the cave, something new which challenges that perception can be confusing and even upsetting.
    Come join the Steeler Nation Fleet!
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    She’s a pretty good idea, an ok character and played by an actress who sometimes does a better job than is warranted.

    At least we’re at a point where Disco stopped shooting people and they’re dealing with weird aliens instead.
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  • Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
    I dig Burnham the character. I get frustrated with Burnham the walking plot device. As for Sonequa Martin-Green, I think she has terrific chemistry with the cast. I especially enjoy watching her with David Ajala; Doug Jones; Mary Wiseman; and Michelle Yeoh. Yeah, her desperate whisper bit wears thin sometimes, but I've had to make peace with voice habits from plenty other Trek actors over the years.

    I came here to say basically this exact thing, so I'll just quote and say +1

    I would like to throw this out however to the "angsty" "crying" crowd, Burnham from season 1 and 2 seems to me to pretty clearly be going through PTSD on a grand scale. A human raised to be Vulcan is not a Vulcan, and her emotional outbursts, tears, etc seemed perfectly justified to me given her circumstances. I will freely admit that I'm older and the way it is shown on the show doesn't resonate with me the way it did with Kira years ago, but I'm also not the target audience.

    I do wish the writers let other characters beside Burnham do stuff. Janeway, Sisko, Picard, Kirk, Archer, and Pike let their people do their jobs, so on that issue I think Discovery suffers but that is not the question that was asked.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    EnderW wrote: »
    If there is one thing that will bring Trek fans together, it is the view that the newest Star Trek is terrible and a betrayal of the franchise and all it stands for. Happened with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and now DISCO. I have come to just ignore it and embrace what I like. And I like DISCO and Burnham. And LDs and SNW and Prodigy. Truly a Star Trek renaissance right now and I'm super happy.

    That's not what's going on here at all right now. Find me someone who doesn't love Strange New Worlds. Or Prodigy for that matter. Lower Decks is also super popular. Discovery is just the weakest of the modern Star Treks. I don't think that's even remotely controversial.

    I have given up watching it, after 3 seasons and after it was removed from Netflix so I'd have to put in effort to find it. I would watch it if it was in front of me. I find it frustrating, not because it's all bad, but because it's often good, and then they make the dumb choice. There has to be room for nuance in the criticism of Star Trek, it can't just be all haters gonna hate.

    That is just your opinion, not a fact
    There are plenty on here & my fleet too who can't stand the "super popular" LD

    Of course it's just an opinion, thanks for pointing that out. I framed the LD bit the way I did because it's positioning on the list is more controversial. I also left out Picard, because I forgot it even existed season 2 was so bad. Again, just my opinion, totally aware of that.

    But it doesn't change the fact that even if you don't like something that doesn't make it bad, and if you like something, that doesn't make it good. Lower Decks is exceptionally well executed, it just has a particular comic tone and it's just not for everyone (though it is very popular).

    The flaws in Discovery are well trodden and agreed upon all over this conversation. That doesn't have to affect whether you like it or not. Picard season two aside (because that season is a classic writing train wreck), Discovery just isn't as well put together as the rest of Modern Trek. We'll likely find out in a few years when it ends and retrospectives are written about exactly what power dynamics led to these outcomes, but I imagine it will be just like the early seasons of TNG, different people with different visions pulling the show in different directions. There is likely no malice involved either, just people with different views of what is important.

  • *Nomad* {PoF}*Nomad* {PoF} ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    Not trying to change anyone's mind. As has been said, like what you like, don't watch if you don't.

    I have seen TOS & TNG dozens of times as I'm sure most of us have. I have watched DS9 & VOY 3 times through over the years and although I know a certain Vulcan friend of mine will give me grief over this, I have only watched ENT 2 times through. And I have watched S1 of SNW twice now.

    I have watched all of Disco and Picard. Gave up on LD after 3 epis. I have no desire to go back and watch DISCO or Picard again. As long as they make them, I will watch because it's Trek, got to see it once, but nothing so far has compelled me to say, "I need to see that again!" Maybe that will change with time, but really don't think it will.

    As far as the "do you like Burnham" question, I did vote no. And that is very strange for me as I think back over all the years and series and "main" characters. The only other character I can think of that I didn't like was Keiko. I am not down on DISCO because of Burnham, but she doesn't give me a reason to watch or rewatch, if that makes sense. For me, she is but one of the many issues with DISCO that will keep me from ever rewatching it.

    Adding a third option: Michael Burnham is a terrible character portrayed by a talented actor.
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  • Thurthorad wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    EnderW wrote: »
    If there is one thing that will bring Trek fans together, it is the view that the newest Star Trek is terrible and a betrayal of the franchise and all it stands for. Happened with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and now DISCO. I have come to just ignore it and embrace what I like. And I like DISCO and Burnham. And LDs and SNW and Prodigy. Truly a Star Trek renaissance right now and I'm super happy.

    That's not what's going on here at all right now. Find me someone who doesn't love Strange New Worlds. Or Prodigy for that matter. Lower Decks is also super popular. Discovery is just the weakest of the modern Star Treks. I don't think that's even remotely controversial.

    I have given up watching it, after 3 seasons and after it was removed from Netflix so I'd have to put in effort to find it. I would watch it if it was in front of me. I find it frustrating, not because it's all bad, but because it's often good, and then they make the dumb choice. There has to be room for nuance in the criticism of Star Trek, it can't just be all haters gonna hate.

    That is just your opinion, not a fact
    There are plenty on here & my fleet too who can't stand the "super popular" LD

    Of course it's just an opinion, thanks for pointing that out. I framed the LD bit the way I did because it's positioning on the list is more controversial. I also left out Picard, because I forgot it even existed season 2 was so bad. Again, just my opinion, totally aware of that.

    But it doesn't change the fact that even if you don't like something that doesn't make it bad, and if you like something, that doesn't make it good. Lower Decks is exceptionally well executed, it just has a particular comic tone and it's just not for everyone (though it is very popular).

    The flaws in Discovery are well trodden and agreed upon all over this conversation. That doesn't have to affect whether you like it or not. Picard season two aside (because that season is a classic writing train wreck), Discovery just isn't as well put together as the rest of Modern Trek. We'll likely find out in a few years when it ends and retrospectives are written about exactly what power dynamics led to these outcomes, but I imagine it will be just like the early seasons of TNG, different people with different visions pulling the show in different directions. There is likely no malice involved either, just people with different views of what is important.

    That's why you should maybe put "IMO" / "In my opinion" in your posts then - IMO 🙂
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    EnderW wrote: »
    If there is one thing that will bring Trek fans together, it is the view that the newest Star Trek is terrible and a betrayal of the franchise and all it stands for. Happened with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and now DISCO. I have come to just ignore it and embrace what I like. And I like DISCO and Burnham. And LDs and SNW and Prodigy. Truly a Star Trek renaissance right now and I'm super happy.

    That's not what's going on here at all right now. Find me someone who doesn't love Strange New Worlds. Or Prodigy for that matter. Lower Decks is also super popular. Discovery is just the weakest of the modern Star Treks. I don't think that's even remotely controversial.

    I have given up watching it, after 3 seasons and after it was removed from Netflix so I'd have to put in effort to find it. I would watch it if it was in front of me. I find it frustrating, not because it's all bad, but because it's often good, and then they make the dumb choice. There has to be room for nuance in the criticism of Star Trek, it can't just be all haters gonna hate.

    That is just your opinion, not a fact
    There are plenty on here & my fleet too who can't stand the "super popular" LD

    Of course it's just an opinion, thanks for pointing that out. I framed the LD bit the way I did because it's positioning on the list is more controversial. I also left out Picard, because I forgot it even existed season 2 was so bad. Again, just my opinion, totally aware of that.

    But it doesn't change the fact that even if you don't like something that doesn't make it bad, and if you like something, that doesn't make it good. Lower Decks is exceptionally well executed, it just has a particular comic tone and it's just not for everyone (though it is very popular).

    The flaws in Discovery are well trodden and agreed upon all over this conversation. That doesn't have to affect whether you like it or not. Picard season two aside (because that season is a classic writing train wreck), Discovery just isn't as well put together as the rest of Modern Trek. We'll likely find out in a few years when it ends and retrospectives are written about exactly what power dynamics led to these outcomes, but I imagine it will be just like the early seasons of TNG, different people with different visions pulling the show in different directions. There is likely no malice involved either, just people with different views of what is important.

    That's why you should maybe put "IMO" / "In my opinion" in your posts then - IMO 🙂

    Why should I cater to people who feel like they have a need to point out the obvious? Saying IMO is short for 'calm down, It's just an opinion'. If you need that, then perhaps it's you who should remind themselves it's just an opinion and take responsibility for your own psychology. Why are you so invested in defending Discovery from nothing more than mild assertions of mediocrity in the first place?
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    EnderW wrote: »
    If there is one thing that will bring Trek fans together, it is the view that the newest Star Trek is terrible and a betrayal of the franchise and all it stands for. Happened with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and now DISCO. I have come to just ignore it and embrace what I like. And I like DISCO and Burnham. And LDs and SNW and Prodigy. Truly a Star Trek renaissance right now and I'm super happy.

    That's not what's going on here at all right now. Find me someone who doesn't love Strange New Worlds. Or Prodigy for that matter. Lower Decks is also super popular. Discovery is just the weakest of the modern Star Treks. I don't think that's even remotely controversial.

    I have given up watching it, after 3 seasons and after it was removed from Netflix so I'd have to put in effort to find it. I would watch it if it was in front of me. I find it frustrating, not because it's all bad, but because it's often good, and then they make the dumb choice. There has to be room for nuance in the criticism of Star Trek, it can't just be all haters gonna hate.

    That is just your opinion, not a fact
    There are plenty on here & my fleet too who can't stand the "super popular" LD

    Of course it's just an opinion, thanks for pointing that out. I framed the LD bit the way I did because it's positioning on the list is more controversial. I also left out Picard, because I forgot it even existed season 2 was so bad. Again, just my opinion, totally aware of that.

    But it doesn't change the fact that even if you don't like something that doesn't make it bad, and if you like something, that doesn't make it good. Lower Decks is exceptionally well executed, it just has a particular comic tone and it's just not for everyone (though it is very popular).

    The flaws in Discovery are well trodden and agreed upon all over this conversation. That doesn't have to affect whether you like it or not. Picard season two aside (because that season is a classic writing train wreck), Discovery just isn't as well put together as the rest of Modern Trek. We'll likely find out in a few years when it ends and retrospectives are written about exactly what power dynamics led to these outcomes, but I imagine it will be just like the early seasons of TNG, different people with different visions pulling the show in different directions. There is likely no malice involved either, just people with different views of what is important.

    That's why you should maybe put "IMO" / "In my opinion" in your posts then - IMO 🙂

    Every post in this thread is an opinion. It’s a given. You like the character/show and explain why you like it. The same goes for if you don’t. No need to preface that.

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  • Veterinary PhloxVeterinary Phlox ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
    I like Burnham. As others have said, her chemistry with the rest of the crew really makes the character for me, and honestly the series.

    I think there are some valid criticisms of how the character is used, especially to help maintain the series' ridiculous pacing. However, most other criticisms I see raised about her seem just as applicable to past series protagonists . . . although maybe they're less noticible when that character is the captain.

    Given the success of SNW, I really hope Trek overall pulls back on the heavy serialization. Do that, and I'm guessing 99% of my issues with Burnham will evaporate.

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  • Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
    Honestly, Burnham isn't even the worst part of the show. My only gripe with her character is SHE solves every problem... No one else does. Season 4 has got a little better, but it's still solely focused on her.

    Burnham in the show isn't even my biggest problem with her. Burnham in the game is my least favorite character and they have over populated her compared to other characters, especially if you consider the amount of screen time she has received.
  • i am ambivalent about her. its the almost endless weeping and disappointing writing that is tiresome for me.
    pro deo et denny crane
  • imdwalrusimdwalrus ✭✭✭
    However, most other criticisms I see raised about her seem just as applicable to past series protagonists . . . although maybe they're less noticible when that character is the captain.

    Almost all of the criticisms of Burnham apply just as equally to Kirk. Hell, the SNW S1 finale had a scene that felt like it was written in specifically so Kirk could yell at Pike because Kirk Is Always Right.
    Burnham in the game is my least favorite character and they have over populated her compared to other characters, especially if you consider the amount of screen time she has received.

    There are, give or take, as many versions of Burnham in the retrieval portal as any of the previous captains. Which seems entirely reasonable to me given she's the lead of the currently ongoing Trek series the game exists in large part to help promote.
  • Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
    I think Burnham does a great job in all the action scenes, arguably as good as any of the captains and easily better than a captain like Janeway.

    pcgdsscblcih.gif
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