Do you like Michael Burnham?
in The Bridge
A fellow Trekker told me today no one likes Michael Burnham and she has ruined the show. I replied that I like her and I was told I'm in a very small minority.
“You must understand that there is more than one path to the top of the mountain”
― Musashi, Japan's Greatest Swordsman and Samurai
― Musashi, Japan's Greatest Swordsman and Samurai
Do you like Michael Burnham? 56 votes
Michael Burnham has ruined Discovery
44%
25 votes
Michael Burnham is good character portrayed by a talented actor
55%
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31 votes
0
Comments
From the time the show was announced, they said it was going to be a departure from the typical ST top-down perspective, where the show revolved around the captain. It was always going to be a Burnham-centric show, for better or worse.
At the show’s best, Burnham has been a likeable character, especially when the rest of the crew was more involved (I didn’t know most of their names for most of the first two seasons, but I think that was meant to mimic how long it took Burnham to integrate into the crew… or maybe I give the writers far too much credit). At the show’s worst, there have been many things that infuriated me more than the Burnham character.
Over time, I have come to enjoy the show and appreciate Burnham more than I did at the start. Overall, I am meh on Burnham, and consider Disco to be the weakest ST series by far. But it’s all subjective and I would never hate on anybody who loves the show and/or Burnham.
What I would say is the show is too Burnham focused. It should be about the whole crew/ship & not revolve around her
Almost across the board I like all the other characters, though, so I stick with the show.
This is not Sonequa Martin Greens fault of course, though it must be something in her contract that made so many season 3 episodes take such massive turns to make sure she solved the episode. I still can't get over her stopping Stamets from trying to save his husband (while crying) when that is *exactly* what she would have done. Dreadful writing, or dreadful character with a solipsistic god complex.
This reminds me. I was just watching the latest season of Jack Ryan. I commented to a friend how tired I was of the trope, government agent believes X, government refuses to believe him, so agent goes rogue and is eventually proven right. A number of seasons of 24 featured the same trope with Jack Bauer going rogue. Yet somehow the fan reaction is always, "why won't they just listen to Jack". I wonder what's different about Michael Burnham that some fans seem bothered when she disagrees with orders and goes rogue.
Keep in mind too that there is a lot of unfair hate directed towards other female and actors of color in sci-fi and fantasy shows and movies. Kate Mulgrew (Janeway) and Avery Brooks (Sisko) in Trek, John Boyega (Finn), Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico), and Moses Ingram (Inquisitor Reva) in Star Wars, as well as Halle Bailey (Ariel) in The Little Mermaid have all faced a huge amount of unfair online hate.
That's not what's going on here at all right now. Find me someone who doesn't love Strange New Worlds. Or Prodigy for that matter. Lower Decks is also super popular. Discovery is just the weakest of the modern Star Treks. I don't think that's even remotely controversial.
I have given up watching it, after 3 seasons and after it was removed from Netflix so I'd have to put in effort to find it. I would watch it if it was in front of me. I find it frustrating, not because it's all bad, but because it's often good, and then they make the dumb choice. There has to be room for nuance in the criticism of Star Trek, it can't just be all haters gonna hate.
And of course, people need to separate 'I enjoy it' from 'it is good'. The Wire is exceptionally good, but I couldn't watch it. Smallville is absolutely terrible, but I watched all 10 seasons of it and enjoyed a lot of it. I would argue that no matter how much you enjoy Discovery that it is objectively poorly written at times and it definitely does bother me that we as a community can't agree on that simple element.
While i dislike her character(or the writing for her character) she hasn t ruined
Disco for me(i still watch it and enjoy it)
but i m convienced Disco would just do fine(better) even without her.
Saru has been the way better and more earned option as a Captain.
That is just your opinion, not a fact
There are plenty on here & my fleet too who can't stand the "super popular" LD
Life is not black & white. There are plenty of grey areas.
Because there were only 2 choices, I chose not to vote. A middle option should have been included IMO
At least we’re at a point where Disco stopped shooting people and they’re dealing with weird aliens instead.
I came here to say basically this exact thing, so I'll just quote and say +1
I would like to throw this out however to the "angsty" "crying" crowd, Burnham from season 1 and 2 seems to me to pretty clearly be going through PTSD on a grand scale. A human raised to be Vulcan is not a Vulcan, and her emotional outbursts, tears, etc seemed perfectly justified to me given her circumstances. I will freely admit that I'm older and the way it is shown on the show doesn't resonate with me the way it did with Kira years ago, but I'm also not the target audience.
I do wish the writers let other characters beside Burnham do stuff. Janeway, Sisko, Picard, Kirk, Archer, and Pike let their people do their jobs, so on that issue I think Discovery suffers but that is not the question that was asked.
Of course it's just an opinion, thanks for pointing that out. I framed the LD bit the way I did because it's positioning on the list is more controversial. I also left out Picard, because I forgot it even existed season 2 was so bad. Again, just my opinion, totally aware of that.
But it doesn't change the fact that even if you don't like something that doesn't make it bad, and if you like something, that doesn't make it good. Lower Decks is exceptionally well executed, it just has a particular comic tone and it's just not for everyone (though it is very popular).
The flaws in Discovery are well trodden and agreed upon all over this conversation. That doesn't have to affect whether you like it or not. Picard season two aside (because that season is a classic writing train wreck), Discovery just isn't as well put together as the rest of Modern Trek. We'll likely find out in a few years when it ends and retrospectives are written about exactly what power dynamics led to these outcomes, but I imagine it will be just like the early seasons of TNG, different people with different visions pulling the show in different directions. There is likely no malice involved either, just people with different views of what is important.
I have seen TOS & TNG dozens of times as I'm sure most of us have. I have watched DS9 & VOY 3 times through over the years and although I know a certain Vulcan friend of mine will give me grief over this, I have only watched ENT 2 times through. And I have watched S1 of SNW twice now.
I have watched all of Disco and Picard. Gave up on LD after 3 epis. I have no desire to go back and watch DISCO or Picard again. As long as they make them, I will watch because it's Trek, got to see it once, but nothing so far has compelled me to say, "I need to see that again!" Maybe that will change with time, but really don't think it will.
As far as the "do you like Burnham" question, I did vote no. And that is very strange for me as I think back over all the years and series and "main" characters. The only other character I can think of that I didn't like was Keiko. I am not down on DISCO because of Burnham, but she doesn't give me a reason to watch or rewatch, if that makes sense. For me, she is but one of the many issues with DISCO that will keep me from ever rewatching it.
Adding a third option: Michael Burnham is a terrible character portrayed by a talented actor.
That's why you should maybe put "IMO" / "In my opinion" in your posts then - IMO 🙂
Why should I cater to people who feel like they have a need to point out the obvious? Saying IMO is short for 'calm down, It's just an opinion'. If you need that, then perhaps it's you who should remind themselves it's just an opinion and take responsibility for your own psychology. Why are you so invested in defending Discovery from nothing more than mild assertions of mediocrity in the first place?
Every post in this thread is an opinion. It’s a given. You like the character/show and explain why you like it. The same goes for if you don’t. No need to preface that.
I think there are some valid criticisms of how the character is used, especially to help maintain the series' ridiculous pacing. However, most other criticisms I see raised about her seem just as applicable to past series protagonists . . . although maybe they're less noticible when that character is the captain.
Given the success of SNW, I really hope Trek overall pulls back on the heavy serialization. Do that, and I'm guessing 99% of my issues with Burnham will evaporate.
Starport
Burnham in the show isn't even my biggest problem with her. Burnham in the game is my least favorite character and they have over populated her compared to other characters, especially if you consider the amount of screen time she has received.
Almost all of the criticisms of Burnham apply just as equally to Kirk. Hell, the SNW S1 finale had a scene that felt like it was written in specifically so Kirk could yell at Pike because Kirk Is Always Right.
There are, give or take, as many versions of Burnham in the retrieval portal as any of the previous captains. Which seems entirely reasonable to me given she's the lead of the currently ongoing Trek series the game exists in large part to help promote.
So I appreciate that this thread has stayed on the civil side of things.
We will always like/dislike different things for different reasons, sometimes it is just about not being in the right frame of mind to appreciate something at a specific point in time.
And that's ok.
Outside of the unfortunate still existing biases, the issue in our era is that we take shortcuts to express ourselves (and oh let's not forget the drama love too ;p), and it results in generalized statements that bring nothing to the conversation. We're all guilty of it at some point or another, but we can identify it and course correct
Thank you for keeping it an actual conversation!
― Musashi, Japan's Greatest Swordsman and Samurai