Gonna use this opportunity to plug Mike Gardner. He's been working on the project since the start and has evolved the style with feedback from y'all.
In the case of the Martok and Jadzia referenced above, a lot has evolved from the style that originated at launch in 2016. The rendering of details was a little softer back then, especially in the costumes. Additionally, the "rim light" wasn't applied uniformly and has now become more of a stroke/border treatment with the orange and blue colors. As you can tell with the Martok and Jadzia examples, it can be difficult to execute and cause other unintended issues.
The Beverly and Vadic in question were done by different artists than Mike, but I would say about 90% of the crew art in the game was produced by him.
If you could skip the “different artists” 👨🎨 that would be super. Especially the one that did the Beverly art send them back to the theme park drawing caricatures. Thank you very much.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
(I know this may be ironic considering my previous post, but I would never directly diss an artist.)
Gonna use this opportunity to plug Mike Gardner. He's been working on the project since the start and has evolved the style with feedback from y'all.
In the case of the Martok and Jadzia referenced above, a lot has evolved from the style that originated at launch in 2016. The rendering of details was a little softer back then, especially in the costumes. Additionally, the "rim light" wasn't applied uniformly and has now become more of a stroke/border treatment with the orange and blue colors. As you can tell with the Martok and Jadzia examples, it can be difficult to execute and cause other unintended issues.
The Beverly and Vadic in question were done by different artists than Mike, but I would say about 90% of the crew art in the game was produced by him.
If you could skip the “different artists” 👨🎨 that would be super. Especially the one that did the Beverly art send them back to the theme park drawing caricatures. Thank you very much.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
(I know this may be ironic considering my previous post, but I would never directly diss an artist.)
VERY bad form!
I agree with this 100%. The problems I have with Timelines are not the fault of most WRG employees (except for the senior managers).
For me, the art is a only sometimes a problem. I appreciate when the artists try different styles. Sometimes it turns out great, other times not.
Thanks folks. I'll look into our options for adjustments to the Crusher artwork.
Also... you want Potato Head Martok and Smooth Skin Jadzia back, or do you simply want to reminisce?
Here they are ready for battle on some lush forest planet.
LLAP,
-Joe.
I thought it was lollipop head? 😆
I was bummed I never got to get to immortalize Martok with the old artwork 😄
And I really like original art style/artist. Never got the dislike for Dax 🤷♂️
I think for me it’s the coloring on Dax’s face that makes it look weird. It’s like reflected light was just added to her face. I’m good with reminiscing with this art. Martok was interesting though.
But isn't that the same with all of the early crew who have what I would call the gloss effect?
Why was Jadzia singled out
I think it was a matter of degrees. It’s not that I was a fan of that art style, it’s just that the shading effect clashed more with the skin tone to my eyes.
First off, thank you for your feedback. We went through a few iterations with Crusher and ultimately our timeline to release reached a point where we shipped it with what we had.
More importantly, I’d like to reflect that as we engage in this kind of conversation, there are people on the other end of the line who are trying their best to provide the best experience, art, and game that they can provide. Belittling them or the job of anyone who may support the efforts whether they be a receptionist, intern, or community manager is behavior unbecoming of the Starfleet Officers we aim to emulate and strive to be.
As far as the critical feedback, I’m all here for it. Wrapping the feedback in jokes actually muddles it and makes it harder to take action on. So much of this is subjective and I would love to help provide a few key words that can help clarify the conversation in future so we can talk about the same things.
Likeness - Accuracy of the character. The primary focus of this is usually the facial features, but could refer to the body proportions / posing / etc… Material Rendering - How certain “materials” get illustrated can sometimes give a piece of art a different read. Does the skin seem natural, or does it read a little “plastic-y”. Does the metal of the armor read more like rubber, etc... Colors / Saturation - Hopefully self explanatory, but can affect the read in drastic ways even when it is very subtly off.
In all the above cases, we have had clear misses in the past. I’m sure some of you will recall our “Yellow era” in a time where overall the colors of the characters were shifted toward that color. In the case of Crusher, I believe the chief criticism is targeted at her likeness, and most specifically her face, but I am open to hearing more of what you all think.
I hope we can have more productive conversations on topics like these in the future. I find it very difficult to engage in threads like these when it seems like a place to simply pile on frustrations with no kindness or respect for each other.
Be well,
-Joe.
Thanx. I was VERY sincere in quitting these Forums. I have had my fill of the arguing and the belittling and the meanness.
And then you played this worn out card. I have no idea what started the whole "blame the players for our problems" process. But it goes at least as far back as Bangate. Remember that one? The people coding the game were either too indifferent or too inadequate to properly code an Offer in the Portal. And the response? A large number of players were banned during an Event. Like the mistake was the fault of the players, and not the coders who failed to code properly. Not a single player did ANY of the artwork people are pointing out is not up to the standards we have come to expect. In a game where artwork is everything, because the game is almost totally collecting the images.
As for "we did not plan ahead adequately", I cannot believe I have to point out AGAIN that there needs to be adequate lead time to not run into "we ran out of time". The 6 Ps are vital. They need to be the mantra.
Gonna use this opportunity to plug Mike Gardner. He's been working on the project since the start and has evolved the style with feedback from y'all.
In the case of the Martok and Jadzia referenced above, a lot has evolved from the style that originated at launch in 2016. The rendering of details was a little softer back then, especially in the costumes. Additionally, the "rim light" wasn't applied uniformly and has now become more of a stroke/border treatment with the orange and blue colors. As you can tell with the Martok and Jadzia examples, it can be difficult to execute and cause other unintended issues.
The Beverly and Vadic in question were done by different artists than Mike, but I would say about 90% of the crew art in the game was produced by him.
Agree Mike does incredible work. Maybe have him be part of the selection process for artists that are used? Maybe that process could involve HIM evaluating portfolios of applicants. Maybe even make part of the evaluation process each potential artist being given three to five images of cast from various scenes and be asked to work up an initial Crew image for each.
We all love @DScottHewitt right? Well, a lot of us do and those that don't I think are just missing pieces of the puzzle because Scott is a great person and a true asset to our fleet. In that vein, I think you will enjoy this, I know I did!
When this issue first came to the community's attention Scott came to our fleet discord and shared all the feedback about the artwork, specifically about Battle Beverly Crusher. I am a day sleeper so I woke up to quite a lot of missed comments that day.
Then Scott bought a few event packs when they went live, got lucky and hit a couple Battle Beverly Crushers, flipped the switch to 100% LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROY Jenkins, and immortalized her! I literally LOL'd when I saw that, it made my day. Heck, several days later I'm still happy about it. I'm glad Scott got the card and had fun with the whole process, these are the stories that I feel make this game unique and engaging, and I was glad to have had a front row seat!
Yeah. I'm of the "Beverly looks like she is from Picard: TAS" camp. But, her utility is top-notch. I'll give her that. Each Skirmish battle with her on the Arty lasted "six seconds" of "3x" game time. And, my Level Nine Arty with her and three Healers has replaced my Level Ten Connie with my best team. With either on Auto {I Hoover at Manual} the Arty is giving more than double the damage in FBB during 🔨 Time.
EDIT: I absolutely know I am not an artist. Cannot draw a good Stickman. However, I also am not drawing a check for doing art. I mean no offense to anyone who is. But, it looks like a combination of things piled up to affect Bev's artwork. Let's give the artists some slack, since someone from the company came right out and started it was because of poor planning on the part of the company. Insufficient lead time is definitely not the fault of the artists.
Everyone please enjoy the Forums and let's all try a little understanding when we bring up issues. I know I can be better. I try every day.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
If Gates McFadden had any choice in the artwork, it would explain why this artwork was chosen. She wants people to think she is younger than she truly is.
Again, as mentioned above at least make her look like the age she admits she is, by adding wrinkles. I do wonder how many more years older she really is.
If Gates McFadden had any choice in the artwork, it would explain why this artwork was chosen. She wants people to think she is younger than she truly is.
Again, as mentioned above at least make her look like the age she admits she is, by adding wrinkles. I do wonder how many more years older she really is.
Have you done a mind meld with her & acquired all this personal knowledge from her? 🤔
If Gates McFadden had any choice in the artwork, it would explain why this artwork was chosen. She wants people to think she is younger than she truly is.
Again, as mentioned above at least make her look like the age she admits she is, by adding wrinkles. I do wonder how many more years older she really is.
Have you done a mind meld with her & acquired all this personal knowledge from her? 🤔
No a couple years back I looked to find her age. She never told her age. Someone used her high school to determine her age. A person who hides their age is always glad to admit to a younger age.
I did this because of an episode of TNG where she was working out with Troi and some other woman. She looked to be in hr 50's back then. That was when I researched her age and found she was hiding her age
If Gates McFadden had any choice in the artwork, it would explain why this artwork was chosen. She wants people to think she is younger than she truly is.
Again, as mentioned above at least make her look like the age she admits she is, by adding wrinkles. I do wonder how many more years older she really is.
Have you done a mind meld with her & acquired all this personal knowledge from her? 🤔
No a couple years back I looked to find her age. She never told her age. Someone used her high school to determine her age. A person who hides their age is always glad to admit to a younger age.
I did this because of an episode of TNG where she was working out with Troi and some other woman. She looked to be in hr 50's back then. That was when I researched her age and found she was hiding her age
Well she's not hiding it very well. It's right there on her IMDB profile.
If Gates McFadden had any choice in the artwork, it would explain why this artwork was chosen. She wants people to think she is younger than she truly is.
Again, as mentioned above at least make her look like the age she admits she is, by adding wrinkles. I do wonder how many more years older she really is.
Have you done a mind meld with her & acquired all this personal knowledge from her? 🤔
No a couple years back I looked to find her age. She never told her age. Someone used her high school to determine her age. A person who hides their age is always glad to admit to a younger age.
I did this because of an episode of TNG where she was working out with Troi and some other woman. She looked to be in hr 50's back then. That was when I researched her age and found she was hiding her age
Yup, perfectly natural to ask a woman "how old are you?" "You look older than you actually are!"
Her age is right there on wikipedia, memory alpha...
A couple of years back, was this pre-internet then?
I'm also curious, did you ask her personally because you said she never told her age. What was your source?
When we have both animated characters and non animated, the artwork needs to look nearer to a photograph when doing non animated characters.
If we did not have animated, I would have no problem with artist have much more leeway in their representation of characters.
My main problem with Potato Head, was that he had one eye. Martok had both his eyes , in Star Trek history, when that character would have existed.
I do consider both Blood Oath Dax and 23rd Century Martok, as well as, Commander Tomalak improved by the current artwork over the original.
Edit: The Old Blood oath Dax did have a problem with the way her legs looked, proportions seemed wrong. Could be because of the perspective she is viewed from.
The problem there is the actor only has the one eye. I'm pretty sure the character was written to take advantage of that.
Martok as a Changeling infiltrator had two eyes. He appeared in The Way of the Warrior and Apocalypse Rising.
It was only when the real version appeared in the prison camp did he have one eye.
Also, the actor has two eyes.
Here is a quote where he talks about it:
"I had both eyes as a clone, but as the real Martok, I was a one-eyed Klingon. Ira said, “Don’t worry about that eye. We’ll give you an artificial eye so you have both eyes again.” I said, “No, no, no. Don’t do that, Ira. First of all, I don’t think a Klingon would care how many eyes he has, as long as he has one. Secondly, I just think it’s more interesting if I can be a one-eyed Klingon.” I might’ve been subconsciously thinking of Christopher Plummer as Chang."
There used to be a book out all long, long time ago, called draw the marvel way. And it just talked a lot about you can draw something and it’s accurate, but it’s not dynamic (Marvel Artists spent a lot of effort to be “dynamic”) and I think that’s the issue were having with say the Beverly crusher in question and also the new legendary Luau Chakotay too. They’re not really all that dynamic they’re just kinda “meh” 🥱 and aren’t visually dynamic.
There used to be a book out all long, long time ago, called draw the marvel way. And it just talked a lot about you can draw something and it’s accurate, but it’s not dynamic (Marvel Artists spent a lot of effort to be “dynamic”) and I think that’s the issue were having with say the Beverly crusher in question and also the new legendary Luau Chakotay too. They’re not really all that dynamic they’re just kinda “meh” 🥱 and aren’t visually dynamic.
I remember that book. Did nothing for my stickman figures....
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
since we're on the topic, I thought today's M'Benga was Chuck Norris with a good tan lol - it looks nothing like M'Benga - wrong skin tone, facial features not accurate, head-shape inaccurate. Pretty bad artwork.
since we're on the topic, I thought today's M'Benga was Chuck Norris with a good tan lol - it looks nothing like M'Benga - wrong skin tone, facial features not accurate, head-shape inaccurate. Pretty bad artwork.
since we're on the topic, I thought today's M'Benga was Chuck Norris with a good tan lol - it looks nothing like M'Benga - wrong skin tone, facial features not accurate, head-shape inaccurate. Pretty bad artwork.
Fishing M’Benga 💯 spot on! 🤩
M’Benga with Newt on his back 😩 not even close.
All goes to show, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen plenty of people who fly fish complaining about the lure or other fishing equipment being wrong.
The art for Leeta looks like it has been squished?
I have the same condition Mirror McCoy has. So when they look "odd" or "off" to me, I am never sure if it is just me. But, I get the odd/off vibe when I look at that version.
Which is disconcerting with someone as NOT "odd" or "off" as Chase!!!!!
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
The art for Leeta looks like it has been squished?
I have the same condition Mirror McCoy has. So when they look "odd" or "off" to me, I am never sure if it is just me. But, I get the odd/off vibe when I look at that version.
Which is disconcerting with someone as NOT "odd" or "off" as Chase!!!!!
The art for Leeta looks like it has been squished?
I have the same condition Mirror McCoy has. So when they look "odd" or "off" to me, I am never sure if it is just me. But, I get the odd/off vibe when I look at that version.
Which is disconcerting with someone as NOT "odd" or "off" as Chase!!!!!
I think with MM it's just that he is at an angle?
Oh. No. I mean the post by Mirror McCoy, the Forum member above your post. I have facial recognition deficit, too. My mom finally learned not to ask me in front of the person who someone was if we ran into someone I knew from school. I usually would connect their face to a name hours later.
And, I cannot even guess how many times I have seen someone in a TV show or movie, was sure I had seen them in stuff, and could not place them. Then I see the actor's name in the credits, and I realize a dozen things I have seen them in.
And I wanna have a brief word word with Tim Burton about "Mars Attacks" and Jack playing TWO people......
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
The art for Leeta looks like it has been squished?
I have the same condition Mirror McCoy has. So when they look "odd" or "off" to me, I am never sure if it is just me. But, I get the odd/off vibe when I look at that version.
Which is disconcerting with someone as NOT "odd" or "off" as Chase!!!!!
I think with MM it's just that he is at an angle?
Oh. No. I mean the post by Mirror McCoy, the Forum member above your post. I have facial recognition deficit, too.
🤦♂️🤦♂️
Sorry to hear about you & MM condition. I know a few people with it
Mine doesn't sound as bad as yours DScott, but it's still nice (if that's the correct word) to feel heard.
For a long time, I just thought something was uniquely "wrong" with just me. I had no idea for half my life other people had trouble "locking in" faces, too.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Look, this may be an unpopular opinion, but when I see artwork that is substandard, I'm absolutely going to call out the artist. (Not by name, of course, which would be abusive as heck -- just in the mostly anonymous way I would do on this forum.) But -- only to state they probably shouldn't be doing art for a high profile game like this. I'm sure they're all cool people and I understand that they've perhaps worked very hard at their craft, but the fact is, not everybody is cut out for high-profile work.
To take it off-topic briefly, consider a hypothetical baseball player. This player loves the game, loves to play, and has devoted their life to baseball since they were a child. But despite all this, they simply don't have the talent to compete, even in the minor leagues. It's not their "fault" -- but if you saw them trying and repeatedly failing while playing a game with far better players, you'd be completely justified in saying that they really shouldn't be there, because they just don't have "it".
Another hypothetical person may love what they do, may have trained years to learn everything about the field in which they want to work, but then they find that they simply do not have the aptitude for it. That the work of a creative person should be treated differently than any other worker in any other type of field who is not producing the results that are expected of them makes little sense to me. I work in a creative field myself, but if I see someone in a movie who I think is without talent, or a musician in a band who brings the rest of the band down, I'm not going to say, "I shouldn't say anything negative about them because they're doing their best." Yes, it takes guts to put yourself out there -- but that doesn't mean that if you don't succeed, people aren't going to call you out for it.
GEORGIOU DROPS A TRUTH BOMB ON DATA1001
Back to STT: While I do feel it is not unreasonable to state that an artist does not have the level of talent that they should have for this kind of work, I do not believe that it is the artists' fault. Who do I really blame? Whoever in the company gave final approval to artwork that is far below the standards we've come to expect.
I've worked for enough businesses for enough years to know that there's not always enough budget (or enough time) to produce a quality product. But when a majority of the artwork that's been produced is quite good, we do come to expect a certain level of quality in all of the in-game art. And -- if I may be so brutally uncouth to say -- as someone who's spent enough on this game to have paid a decent chunk of one employee's yearly salary, I feel I'm not out of line to bring it up when I see that something is not up to standards. I really don't like the idea of someone in the company reviewing substandard artwork and saying, "Eh, it's not great, but it'll have to do," rather than sending it back to the drawing board (literally) and/or mentoring the artist to try to create a finished product that's worthy of the game. (Not saying that's actually what happens, but the notion has crossed my mind.)
That having been said, anyone who's familiar with my many posts in the past on this forum also know that I like to call out top-notch artwork when I see it. Therefore, in the interest of ending this diatribe on a more positive note, here is a rundown of some recent artwork that I think is simply outstanding:
Vox
Sir Adya Ortegas
T'Pring as Spock
Pascal Fullerton
Tourist Hoshi Sato
Mot
Lenore Karidian
Ceti Alpha V Khan
Captain Shaw
Sarin
Colonel Grat
Seven in Command
Bruce Maddox
Mirror Tuvok
Chances Taken Kirk
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
Look, this may be an unpopular opinion, but when I see artwork that is substandard, I'm absolutely going to call out the artist. (Not by name, of course, which would be abusive as heck -- just in the mostly anonymous way I would do on this forum.) But -- only to state they probably shouldn't be doing art for a high profile game like this. I'm sure they're all cool people and I understand that they've perhaps worked very hard at their craft, but the fact is, not everybody is cut out for high-profile work.
To take it off-topic briefly, consider a hypothetical baseball player. This player loves the game, loves to play, and has devoted their life to baseball since they were a child. But despite all this, they simply don't have the talent to compete, even in the minor leagues. It's not their "fault" -- but if you saw them trying and repeatedly failing while playing a game with far better players, you'd be completely justified in saying that they really shouldn't be there, because they just don't have "it".
Another hypothetical person may love what they do, may have trained years to learn everything about the field in which they want to work, but then they find that they simply do not have the aptitude for it. That the work of a creative person should be treated differently than any other worker in any other type of field who is not producing the results that are expected of them makes little sense to me. I work in a creative field myself, but if I see someone in a movie who I think is without talent, or a musician in a band who brings the rest of the band down, I'm not going to say, "I shouldn't say anything negative about them because they're doing their best." Yes, it takes guts to put yourself out there -- but that doesn't mean that if you don't succeed, people aren't going to call you out for it.
GEORGIOU DROPS A TRUTH BOMB ON DATA1001
Back to STT: While I do feel it is not unreasonable to state that an artist does not have the level of talent that they should have for this kind of work, I do not believe that it is the artists' fault. Who do I really blame? Whoever in the company gave final approval to artwork that is far below the standards we've come to expect.
I've worked for enough businesses for enough years to know that there's not always enough budget (or enough time) to produce a quality product. But when a majority of the artwork that's been produced is quite good, we do come to expect a certain level of quality in all of the in-game art. And -- if I may be so brutally uncouth to say -- as someone who's spent enough on this game to have paid a decent chunk of one employee's yearly salary, I feel I'm not out of line to bring it up when I see that something is not up to standards. I really don't like the idea of someone in the company reviewing substandard artwork and saying, "Eh, it's not great, but it'll have to do," rather than sending it back to the drawing board (literally) and/or mentoring the artist to try to create a finished product that's worthy of the game. (Not saying that's actually what happens, but the notion has crossed my mind.)
That having been said, anyone who's familiar with my many posts in the past on this forum also know that I like to call out top-notch artwork when I see it. Therefore, in the interest of ending this diatribe on a more positive note, here is a rundown of some recent artwork that I think is simply outstanding:
Vox
Sir Adya Ortegas
T'Pring as Spock
Pascal Fullerton
Tourist Hoshi Sato
Mot
Lenore Karidian
Ceti Alpha V Khan
Captain Shaw
Sarin
Colonel Grat
Seven in Command
Bruce Maddox
Mirror Tuvok
Chances Taken Kirk
Very elegantly put.
It's like, I love to sing. I sing along to the radio and YouTube videos all the time. But, I know I am never going to have to build a display case {which I also cannot do} for all the Grammies and Platinum albums.....
Love and being passionate about something you like, does not automatically translate to being a commercial success in that field.
For every Susan Boyle, there are a million William Hungs.....
William Hung is still a friendly,fun guy. He just ain't a beautiful singer. Saying a piece of artwork is sub-par is not {or should not} be a personal attack on the artist as a person.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Comments
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
(I know this may be ironic considering my previous post, but I would never directly diss an artist.)
VERY bad form!
I agree with this 100%. The problems I have with Timelines are not the fault of most WRG employees (except for the senior managers).
For me, the art is a only sometimes a problem. I appreciate when the artists try different styles. Sometimes it turns out great, other times not.
I think it was a matter of degrees. It’s not that I was a fan of that art style, it’s just that the shading effect clashed more with the skin tone to my eyes.
Thanx. I was VERY sincere in quitting these Forums. I have had my fill of the arguing and the belittling and the meanness.
And then you played this worn out card. I have no idea what started the whole "blame the players for our problems" process. But it goes at least as far back as Bangate. Remember that one? The people coding the game were either too indifferent or too inadequate to properly code an Offer in the Portal. And the response? A large number of players were banned during an Event. Like the mistake was the fault of the players, and not the coders who failed to code properly. Not a single player did ANY of the artwork people are pointing out is not up to the standards we have come to expect. In a game where artwork is everything, because the game is almost totally collecting the images.
As for "we did not plan ahead adequately", I cannot believe I have to point out AGAIN that there needs to be adequate lead time to not run into "we ran out of time". The 6 Ps are vital. They need to be the mantra.
Agree Mike does incredible work. Maybe have him be part of the selection process for artists that are used? Maybe that process could involve HIM evaluating portfolios of applicants. Maybe even make part of the evaluation process each potential artist being given three to five images of cast from various scenes and be asked to work up an initial Crew image for each.
Yeah. I'm of the "Beverly looks like she is from Picard: TAS" camp. But, her utility is top-notch. I'll give her that. Each Skirmish battle with her on the Arty lasted "six seconds" of "3x" game time. And, my Level Nine Arty with her and three Healers has replaced my Level Ten Connie with my best team. With either on Auto {I Hoover at Manual} the Arty is giving more than double the damage in FBB during 🔨 Time.
EDIT: I absolutely know I am not an artist. Cannot draw a good Stickman. However, I also am not drawing a check for doing art. I mean no offense to anyone who is. But, it looks like a combination of things piled up to affect Bev's artwork. Let's give the artists some slack, since someone from the company came right out and started it was because of poor planning on the part of the company. Insufficient lead time is definitely not the fault of the artists.
Everyone please enjoy the Forums and let's all try a little understanding when we bring up issues. I know I can be better. I try every day.
Again, as mentioned above at least make her look like the age she admits she is, by adding wrinkles. I do wonder how many more years older she really is.
Yeah, & still 😍😍
Have you done a mind meld with her & acquired all this personal knowledge from her? 🤔
No a couple years back I looked to find her age. She never told her age. Someone used her high school to determine her age. A person who hides their age is always glad to admit to a younger age.
I did this because of an episode of TNG where she was working out with Troi and some other woman. She looked to be in hr 50's back then. That was when I researched her age and found she was hiding her age
Well she's not hiding it very well. It's right there on her IMDB profile.
Yup, perfectly natural to ask a woman "how old are you?" "You look older than you actually are!"
Her age is right there on wikipedia, memory alpha...
A couple of years back, was this pre-internet then?
I'm also curious, did you ask her personally because you said she never told her age. What was your source?
― Musashi, Japan's Greatest Swordsman and Samurai
If we did not have animated, I would have no problem with artist have much more leeway in their representation of characters.
My main problem with Potato Head, was that he had one eye. Martok had both his eyes , in Star Trek history, when that character would have existed.
I do consider both Blood Oath Dax and 23rd Century Martok, as well as, Commander Tomalak improved by the current artwork over the original.
Edit: The Old Blood oath Dax did have a problem with the way her legs looked, proportions seemed wrong. Could be because of the perspective she is viewed from.
Martok as a Changeling infiltrator had two eyes. He appeared in The Way of the Warrior and Apocalypse Rising.
It was only when the real version appeared in the prison camp did he have one eye.
Also, the actor has two eyes.
Here is a quote where he talks about it:
"I had both eyes as a clone, but as the real Martok, I was a one-eyed Klingon. Ira said, “Don’t worry about that eye. We’ll give you an artificial eye so you have both eyes again.” I said, “No, no, no. Don’t do that, Ira. First of all, I don’t think a Klingon would care how many eyes he has, as long as he has one. Secondly, I just think it’s more interesting if I can be a one-eyed Klingon.” I might’ve been subconsciously thinking of Christopher Plummer as Chang."
https://www.startrek.com/article/general-martok-from-ds9-j-g-hertzler
I remember that book. Did nothing for my stickman figures....
Fishing M’Benga 💯 spot on! 🤩
M’Benga with Newt on his back 😩 not even close.
All goes to show, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen plenty of people who fly fish complaining about the lure or other fishing equipment being wrong.
I have the same condition Mirror McCoy has. So when they look "odd" or "off" to me, I am never sure if it is just me. But, I get the odd/off vibe when I look at that version.
Which is disconcerting with someone as NOT "odd" or "off" as Chase!!!!!
I think with MM it's just that he is at an angle?
Oh. No. I mean the post by Mirror McCoy, the Forum member above your post. I have facial recognition deficit, too. My mom finally learned not to ask me in front of the person who someone was if we ran into someone I knew from school. I usually would connect their face to a name hours later.
And, I cannot even guess how many times I have seen someone in a TV show or movie, was sure I had seen them in stuff, and could not place them. Then I see the actor's name in the credits, and I realize a dozen things I have seen them in.
And I wanna have a brief word word with Tim Burton about "Mars Attacks" and Jack playing TWO people......
🤦♂️🤦♂️
Sorry to hear about you & MM condition. I know a few people with it
For a long time, I just thought something was uniquely "wrong" with just me. I had no idea for half my life other people had trouble "locking in" faces, too.
To take it off-topic briefly, consider a hypothetical baseball player. This player loves the game, loves to play, and has devoted their life to baseball since they were a child. But despite all this, they simply don't have the talent to compete, even in the minor leagues. It's not their "fault" -- but if you saw them trying and repeatedly failing while playing a game with far better players, you'd be completely justified in saying that they really shouldn't be there, because they just don't have "it".
Another hypothetical person may love what they do, may have trained years to learn everything about the field in which they want to work, but then they find that they simply do not have the aptitude for it. That the work of a creative person should be treated differently than any other worker in any other type of field who is not producing the results that are expected of them makes little sense to me. I work in a creative field myself, but if I see someone in a movie who I think is without talent, or a musician in a band who brings the rest of the band down, I'm not going to say, "I shouldn't say anything negative about them because they're doing their best." Yes, it takes guts to put yourself out there -- but that doesn't mean that if you don't succeed, people aren't going to call you out for it.
GEORGIOU DROPS A TRUTH BOMB ON DATA1001
Back to STT: While I do feel it is not unreasonable to state that an artist does not have the level of talent that they should have for this kind of work, I do not believe that it is the artists' fault. Who do I really blame? Whoever in the company gave final approval to artwork that is far below the standards we've come to expect.
I've worked for enough businesses for enough years to know that there's not always enough budget (or enough time) to produce a quality product. But when a majority of the artwork that's been produced is quite good, we do come to expect a certain level of quality in all of the in-game art. And -- if I may be so brutally uncouth to say -- as someone who's spent enough on this game to have paid a decent chunk of one employee's yearly salary, I feel I'm not out of line to bring it up when I see that something is not up to standards. I really don't like the idea of someone in the company reviewing substandard artwork and saying, "Eh, it's not great, but it'll have to do," rather than sending it back to the drawing board (literally) and/or mentoring the artist to try to create a finished product that's worthy of the game. (Not saying that's actually what happens, but the notion has crossed my mind.)
That having been said, anyone who's familiar with my many posts in the past on this forum also know that I like to call out top-notch artwork when I see it. Therefore, in the interest of ending this diatribe on a more positive note, here is a rundown of some recent artwork that I think is simply outstanding:
Vox
Sir Adya Ortegas
T'Pring as Spock
Pascal Fullerton
Tourist Hoshi Sato
Mot
Lenore Karidian
Ceti Alpha V Khan
Captain Shaw
Sarin
Colonel Grat
Seven in Command
Bruce Maddox
Mirror Tuvok
Chances Taken Kirk
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
Very elegantly put.
It's like, I love to sing. I sing along to the radio and YouTube videos all the time. But, I know I am never going to have to build a display case {which I also cannot do} for all the Grammies and Platinum albums.....
Love and being passionate about something you like, does not automatically translate to being a commercial success in that field.
For every Susan Boyle, there are a million William Hungs.....
William Hung is still a friendly,fun guy. He just ain't a beautiful singer. Saying a piece of artwork is sub-par is not {or should not} be a personal attack on the artist as a person.