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Ceti Alpha V Khan Art Editorial Questions

Shy KhanShy Khan ✭✭✭✭✭
I am curious about the editorial process for art, in general and in particular on this new Khan. How is the final decision on the poses and shot recreations for these cards reached?
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The pose in question comes from Khan's line to Terrell, "You are in a position to demand nothing, sir..."

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A great moment, to be sure. But why use that pose for a card titled "Ceti Alpha V Khan," when the the iconic line of the scene, if not, indeed, the entire movie, is "This is Ceti Alpha V!" This should clearly be the pose, not to mention an automatic inclusion in the inevitable Pointing Collection:

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I've certainly disagreed with certain editorial choices in the past - Borg Queen Seven never actually being in her pose and wearing the wrong shirt, Ogawa's pose taken from a behind the scenes photo instead of her Die Hard crawl through the ship dodging Borg - but in this case, the line is in the name of the card. That seems... obvious?

Anyway, just want to be clear, the Timelines' artists are, on the whole, fantastic. Their work has become ubiquitous throughout the franchise - whenever you search for a Trek character now, you will find Star Trek Timelines artwork in your search results. The growth and evolution has been remarkable to watch - even when art strikes you the wrong way, the effort and talent is clear.

That said, the boots are wrong. See Wrathful Khan's art for the correct footwear.

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Comments

  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭
    1 Is there a full shot of him wearing the boots in the final art?
    2: is there a full body image of the scene that you wanted or is it just the headshot because that would require a lot more work from the artist

    Sometimes the image from the show just won't translate into the art for the card & artistic license is called for. Prime example being Ogawa. You really would have like an image of her flat that would probably not show up at all when immortalized or on the bridge?

    From what I can remember, you never get a proper view of Seven, just her back extreme close up of her face & pretty distant shot of her at an angle. I think it was right to not do a head on as the cables(or whatever you call them) were integral to her transformation) so couldn't show her straight forward
  • Shy KhanShy Khan ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2023
    1 Is there a full shot of him wearing the boots in the final art?
    2: is there a full body image of the scene that you wanted or is it just the headshot because that would require a lot more work from the artist

    Sometimes the image from the show just won't translate into the art for the card & artistic license is called for. Prime example being Ogawa. You really would have like an image of her flat that would probably not show up at all when immortalized or on the bridge?

    From what I can remember, you never get a proper view of Seven, just her back extreme close up of her face & pretty distant shot of her at an angle. I think it was right to not do a head on as the cables(or whatever you call them) were integral to her transformation) so couldn't show her straight forward

    1. Not sure what you mean; do you mean is there a full body shot of him from the actual movie or in the Timelines artwork, because I posted the Timelines artwork above. And there are certainly many full body shots of both him and the costume.

    pk5sbmiwc6x2.jpg

    2. Not sure if you've seen the movie recently, but there are actually no full body shots of Khan during the Ceti Alpha V cargo container scene, so it would be exactly the same amount of work for the artist either way, as they made up the bottom half of the costume anyway.

    The Ogawa pose from the movie wouldn't have been her lying flat, it could have easily been her coming out of the Jefferies tube in a crouched position, which many cards in the game have.

    kjntvkgl55a5.png

    Also not sure about your point on Borg Queen Seven.. her face is forward in the existing Honor Hall art anyway, so why would it matter if they used one of her actual front-facing facial expression from the scene or not? Or, lighting from the actual scene. You can show the cables just fine regardless.

    5pzao91wa6yg.png

    sg7o0rftsqw2.jpg
    hlfkbqjzqa7h.png

    As it is, it looked like a recycled Fenris Ranger Seven pose, as she's not wearing the gold knit shirt in the Queen's chamber cube activation scene in Picard.
    yum53x38p1er.png

    Also, there seem to be several shots of her throughout the scene, not just a single shot at a distance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpjXYD2AELg

    Your questions aside, to get back to my point, I'm curious about the editorial process - who pitches the poses, artist, writer, both, etc...
    Come join the Steeler Nation Fleet!
  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭
    Shy Khan wrote: »
    1 Is there a full shot of him wearing the boots in the final art?
    2: is there a full body image of the scene that you wanted or is it just the headshot because that would require a lot more work from the artist

    Sometimes the image from the show just won't translate into the art for the card & artistic license is called for. Prime example being Ogawa. You really would have like an image of her flat that would probably not show up at all when immortalized or on the bridge?

    From what I can remember, you never get a proper view of Seven, just her back extreme close up of her face & pretty distant shot of her at an angle. I think it was right to not do a head on as the cables(or whatever you call them) were integral to her transformation) so couldn't show her straight forward

    1. Not sure what you mean; do you mean is there a full body shot of him from the actual movie or in the Timelines artwork, because I posted the Timelines artwork above. And there are certainly many full body shots of both him and the costume.

    pk5sbmiwc6x2.jpg

    2. Not sure if you've seen the movie recently, but there are actually no full body shots of Khan during the Ceti Alpha V cargo container scene, so it would be exactly the same amount of work for the artist either way, as they made up the bottom half of the costume anyway.
    Um yeah, later on in the film, with an entirely different look. I was asking if there was a bodyshot of him at the specific point you want the card art from. We already have seen there is one from where the final art came from
    The image used in the event pic is what we see on screen. That's why the boots are wrong
    Sorry for my bad wording of full bodyshot


    Also not sure about your point on Borg Queen Seven.. her face is forward in the existing Honor Hall art anyway, so why would it matter if they used one of her actual front-facing facial expression from the scene or not? Or, lighting from the actual scene. You can show the cables just fine
    5pzao91wa6yg.png
    sg7o0rftsqw2.jpg
    hlfkbqjzqa7h.png
    As it is, it looked like a recycled Fenris Ranger Seven pose, as she's not wearing the gold knit shirt in the Queen's chamber cube activation scene in Picard. [/ quote]
    yum53x38p1er.png
    It looks like Fenris Seven? Maybe because it's Seven from the same series? Just in a different costume!
    She's also not wearing the gold top in that scene. I guess that just shows how little you see of her
    Also, there is quite a lot of recycled art used in game. Off the top of my head, Captain & C.O.P. Janeway. I know there's more but too lazy to look

    Also, there seem to be several shots of her throughout the scene, not just a single shot at a distance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpjXYD2AELg

    regardless.
    yes I did my homework thanks 🙂

    I watched that video, I stated that there were close ups of her face, but there are no full figure close ups, just from afar.

    There is however footage of her at 50 minutes. She's not wearing a gold tee shirt? 🤔

    So art of seven in in grey(?) Jean's & tee along with her jacket at an angle would make a good representation of her as Borg Queen Seven? 🤨 Artistic License was the right call here IMO



    Your questions aside, to get back to my point, I'm curious about the editorial process - who pitches the poses, artist, writer, both, etc...
    I would hazard a guess the best sources that are out there - pictures that are available & look the best with trying to get as much as the character's key trait in there. The rest such as lower half may not be needed such in the case of starfleet uniform
  • Shy KhanShy Khan ✭✭✭✭✭
    Um yeah, later on in the film, with an entirely different look. I was asking if there was a bodyshot of him at the specific point you want the card art from. We already have seen there is one from where the final art came from
    The image used in the event pic is what we see on screen. That's why the boots are wrong
    Sorry for my bad wording of full bodyshot

    He's literally wearing the same outfit underneath the cloak. He takes off the cloak and is in the brown/orange outfit. Why would the boots be different?

    I suppose we're going to have agree to disagree on Borg Queen Seven. I find the Honor Hall pose to be pedestrian and inaccurate to the scene and moment. If it's fine for you, it's fine for you. Ceti Alpha V Khan not being the moment when he literally shouts, "Ceti Alpha V" is just odd.
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  • Selene 7Selene 7 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2023
    I personally love the Khan art, it made me happy to see him when I put him on a voyage today (too many crew you get and then hardly ever see again, but that's a topic for another day). The wrathful Kirk may be more iconic, but this Khan art is actually better IMHO.

    And sidenote--yes please to more crew from the TOS movies! Glad to see a McCoy on the way, the art looks great for him!
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    I noticed all the soundclips for Ceti Alpha Khan are lines said by Wrathful Khan later on the Reliant......
    What if I told you not every single nit needs to be picked literally to death?
  • ChaosChildChaosChild ✭✭✭✭✭
    I noticed all the soundclips for Ceti Alpha Khan are lines said by Wrathful Khan later on the Reliant......

    Every version of Khan has the same sound clips, including those from Space Seed.
  • Shy Khan wrote: »
    Also not sure about your point on Borg Queen Seven..
    As it is, it looked like a recycled Fenris Ranger Seven pose

    I started the discussion on it back when Borg Queen Seven got released as a Honour crew back in the day with a few things i noticed (regarding created character art for the game)

    https://forum.wickedrealmgames.com/stt/discussion/18572/borg-queen-seven-fenris-ranger-artwork#latest
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  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    ChaosChild wrote: »
    I noticed all the soundclips for Ceti Alpha Khan are lines said by Wrathful Khan later on the Reliant......

    Every version of Khan has the same sound clips, including those from Space Seed.

    I never had my sound on in the old days. So, I never heard the clips on the TOS ones, I guess. They are both Frozen now, unless they are Possibles for a Node. And Wrathful usually hits those Nodes.

    What if I told you not every single nit needs to be picked literally to death?
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