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Cheating… what’s TP doing about it?

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  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭✭
    IceCat wrote: »
    Only speaks up when it affects him, not when others cheat & it is not-so obvious.

    It's a game for crying out loud. Grow up! I look forward to see what happens on Jan 6th!

    dishonest game play.

    I’m not saying anyone cheated, and we don’t have access to what was sent to TP. I just want clear information on what TP does to prevent dishonest gameplay, (outside of choose xx character), possibly what metrics they use when making the determination of dishonest game play, and what they do if that determination is made in the affirmative (during or after an event).

    If they were that confident that the player cheated, they would share their evidence. As @Puknuti said, calling someone a cheater is a big thing - even more so when you have seemingly done so in the past!

    You've made several accusations of others cheating in an attempt to discredit Namer on another thread for the original event. Yet, have provided no proof yourself.

    Hypocrisy be thy name 🙄

    I know you will discredit this but I will provide proof
    As to the other person, Rom's number's speak for themselves. but of course we can't check those now that the page is down. If you believe someone can do skirmishes that fast all by themselves without any aid, well then..

    https://bigbook.dev/
  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭✭
    Only speaks up when it affects him, not when others cheat & it is not-so obvious.

    It's a game for crying out loud. Grow up! I look forward to see what happens on Jan 6th!

    dishonest game play.

    I’m not saying anyone cheated, and we don’t have access to what was sent to TP. I just want clear information on what TP does to prevent dishonest gameplay, (outside of choose xx character), possibly what metrics they use when making the determination of dishonest game play, and what they do if that determination is made in the affirmative (during or after an event).

    If they were that confident that the player cheated, they would share their evidence. As @Puknuti said, calling someone a cheater is a big thing - even more so when you have seemingly done so in the past!

    fds1uw16emtc.png

    It should be noted though that this was posted from another user not namer, so we still have to see HIS evidence directly from him
  • bennybenny ✭✭✭
    edited December 2024
    not questioning your solution at all, but what if they are cashing in both recipes & rares?
    Except they are not. You are obviously here to denigrate and seed mistrust. Event leaderboards are monitored like never before and we know exactly when and how people turn in rares. All it takes is constant polling, looking at deltas, and calculating how many recipes and turn ins fit into each (including those initial 27 turn-ins).

    The screenshots shared here are complete proof. 6 screenshots in a 15 min interval that only show 1025 increments. It's absolutely basic math and that's what makes this the most clear example of cheating ever recorded. A rare turn-in takes 4850 VP and the smallest common multiple with 1025 VP is 198,850 VP. The deltas have to be larger than that 198k value to stop being able to determine how many were normal craftings for 1025 and how many were rare turn-ins.

    Strange for SSR people to die on this hill when one of them so obviously cheated in this event. If you wanted to come out with a good image, you would've admitted what you're seeing is wrong and got rid of Callimachus and condemned the cheating. But you are running you're own little psy-op here to muddy the waters, continuing to tarnish whatever reputation you might still have at this point. I have yet to see 1 fleet member come out and condemn this. Are you all in-the-know?
  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2024
    that's funny someone saying "If you wanted to come out with a good image" & "obviously here to denigrate" when you keep on throwing names at me for no reason.

    I'd rather be "in clowning school" than go smearing someone when not needed
  • bennybenny ✭✭✭
    edited December 2024
    Here is the report I made at the end of phase 2 (4-5 hours before the event ended) when Callimachus was already slowing down but still holding an impossible rate.

    28 screenshots over a 45 min interval, showing a 507,375k VP gain from crafting alone, no super rare turn-ins whatsoever. While the average is still impossible, breaks were had in between and if you look at deltas in individual pictures, you will see even higher rates of crafting than this average. Average is still about 2x faster than what's possible even with an in-game auto-macro because animations still have to play out, cancelled or not. That average over this entire period has 495 completed recipes over exactly 2740 seconds, i.e. a recipe every 5.53 seconds (so less than 2 seconds per crafted item), and the intervals are small enough to ensure no turn-ins could've happened. And again, if you calculate each interval here, you will see higher bursts.

    This person was already under public scrutiny, slowed down thinking it's enough, yet still gave us more proof of cheating. For how long has this person been doing this without scoring high and attracting attention?

    https://imgur.com/a/QQOOBrD
  • bennybenny ✭✭✭
    I have made a report, two other fleet mates submitted one as well, we have seen Siete's most convincing proof, who knows how many others submitted more, so what in Sha Ka Ree's name is Tilting Point doing here? Thumb twiddling?
  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let me state again. I am not saying any party is innocent or guilty - in making accusations or cheating

    I asked about Shaw's solution & what would happen if they cashed in both rates & recipes because I don't know the theory behind that, not to "denigrate and seed mistrust". It was a genuine question & wonder I had since those screenshots were posted
    I don't believe in judging so quickly, so harshly
    Whatever the outcome is IMO the way Namer went about this STINKS. It is a game. Is cheating wrong, if course!! But it's been blatantly done many times before. Why they got rid of the Choose the character entirely was stupid. You came in second, nothing wrong with that. But throwing this tantrum has effected pretty much everyone playing the game

    I've said my piece
  • They wont do anything about the cheating. Time to accept it.

    Might as well join SSR and take advantage of whatever it is they are doing.

    Just curious about the games outlook? Weve known that skirmish has macro users, now we know galaxy has them too, we know that shuttle events are completely pay to play if you want rank #1, so basically the only way i know of to get a legit rank 1 event finish is on voyage or expedition events?

    Just open the stupid floodgates and let this game fade into complete obscurity, please.
  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭✭
    Voya
    They wont do anything about the cheating. Time to accept it.

    Might as well join SSR and take advantage of whatever it is they are doing.

    Just curious about the games outlook? Weve known that skirmish has macro users, now we know galaxy has them too, we know that shuttle events are completely pay to play if you want rank #1, so basically the only way i know of to get a legit rank 1 event finish is on voyage or expedition events?

    Just open the stupid floodgates and let this game fade into complete obscurity, please.

    Voyage is very much PTW. Just buy as many packs to get all those fast forwards. Frank is very much proof of this

    And you can win faction without PTW, just takes a lot of time saving up. I've seen it done

    I'm gonna take back what I said in my last post.

    I do believe my fellow fleet member did not cheat. SSR is an honourable fleet. We abhor cheating & you will never find it going on there. I could post screenshots here as evidence but of course people would say they were doctored

    We know what we have/haven't done. Our conscious is clear.
    People also know Namer isn't a saint but gets a pass because of his contributions to the game

    Time will tell what happen & the ramifications

    Bye 🤟
  • I would genuinely appreciate it if someone can
    explain how there can be any certainty on this point about it not being the super rare items that explain what's happening here.

    There's actually a quite simple way to tell if someone is earning their VP from turning in rare rewards or from crafting recipes. It's a method I employed myself when I earned the #1 finish in a Galaxy event this past year.

    All you need to do is note someone's VP on the leaderboard, then check back a little later; subtract their lower VP score from their higher one, and see if the total is exactly divisible by 1025 (the amount of a crafted recipe) or by 4850 (the amount from rares once you reach the highest level).

    not questioning your solution at all, but what if they are cashing in both recipes & rares?

    Then it likely won't come out exactly divisible by either, if you were to use my simple method.

    (If you tracked the leaderboards much more closely, you could probably narrow it down -- and find out {PLAYERX} used recipes during {X-period-of-time} but turned in rares during {Y-period-of-time} -- but I was only taking screenshots every 45 minutes or so.)

    The reason I used this was because I hadn't turned in any rare rewards until the very end of the event. So based on this, as well as a very generous estimate of many recipes one could build within a certain time frame, I knew that if someone was using rares and had a certain VP, they wouldn't be able to catch me. They would have needed to have VP beyond a specific point to have a shot. So as long as I kept an eye on that, and adjusted accordingly if needed, I was assured that my top spot would be safe.

    My margin of 'safety' didn't really take into account bots/macros, but as I said, I was quite generous in estimating the max amount of recipes one could do in a certain time frame, and I also kept a close eye on things until the end.

    Hope that helps!
  • cmdrworfcmdrworf ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem is many games with repetitive actions end up being driven by bots at some point. Early on devs will/may care about that but as the games hit later in life they tend to care less as they are more interested in keeping the lights on and the revenue flowing as long as the bots don't cause a MAJOR issue with the game. yes they may take over the top spots in leaderboards, etc. but overall they don't adversely impact the bulk of the player base. That tends to mean devs will look the other way. I've seen this before so I'm not too surprised by this. For me, it doesn't matter one way or the other. Does it **tsk tsk** to lose a good player tool over this? Yes it does. Is it the end all? No its not. Life and the game will go on. At least thats my 2 cents over it.
    Sir, I protest! I am NOT a merry man!
  • CalhounCalhoun ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is there any chance of lag in the scores being updated? That’s the only possible legit explanation I could imagine for those numbers.
  • bennybenny ✭✭✭
    So we went from possible cheaters to definite cheaters to eh what can you do? From suspending us on masse over earning some additional useless polestars, to allowing a bot free for all? And we’re fine with it?

    RIP
  • bennybenny ✭✭✭
    Calhoun wrote: »
    Is there any chance of lag in the scores being updated? That’s the only possible legit explanation I could imagine for those numbers.
    No, faction/galaxy/skirmish leaderboards are in real time, and they would certainly not affect a single player consistently throughout the event.
  • IceCat wrote: »
    Only speaks up when it affects him, not when others cheat & it is not-so obvious.

    It's a game for crying out loud. Grow up! I look forward to see what happens on Jan 6th!

    dishonest game play.

    I’m not saying anyone cheated, and we don’t have access to what was sent to TP. I just want clear information on what TP does to prevent dishonest gameplay, (outside of choose xx character), possibly what metrics they use when making the determination of dishonest game play, and what they do if that determination is made in the affirmative (during or after an event).

    If they were that confident that the player cheated, they would share their evidence. As @Puknuti said, calling someone a cheater is a big thing - even more so when you have seemingly done so in the past!

    You've made several accusations of others cheating in an attempt to discredit Namer on another thread for the original event. Yet, have provided no proof yourself.

    Hypocrisy be thy name 🙄

    I know you will discredit this but I will provide proof
    As to the other person, Rom's number's speak for themselves. but of course we can't check those now that the page is down. If you believe someone can do skirmishes that fast all by themselves without any aid, well then..

    https://bigbook.dev/

    Galaxy event not a Skirmish
  • Still radio silence since the event… @STT Community
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.” —Mark TwainMEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy! Best Event Finish: #3 Honor Debt: Inconceivable...Honor Bank Account: Slowly building...
  • According to the final tally, the difference between the 2 players was 10%. I don't know whether someone cheated or not, and I'm not sure it's provable, the screenshots just show that the player pushed 100 000s of points within a few minutes, turning in 15 event items gives nearly 5k points and takes 1 second so proving cheating in this game would be nigh impossible. Add in the fact that anyone can pay a 3rd party to play during sleep (and not only then), even within Europe/US cheaply so it doesn't get detected by anti-cheat and it becomes a guessing game.

    I feel for the people going second place when they spent 4 days on their PC clicking religiously but that's the risk of this type of game when everyone can just pay other people to play the game and if someone is dedicated enough, they won't be tracked by anti-cheat. I don't think you even need botting, you can set up a monitoring system on someone else's computer and make sure they are clicking as fast as possible as though their life depended on it. Plus we have seen 14-15 million VP in Galaxies before so the sky is the limit. There was also a previous event a few weeks ago when the top player got 12 million VP, which is more than either of those players and there weren't accusations of cheating then. It's just unprovable unless there is a pattern and even then TP banning players, some of whom probably spent 1000s or 10 000s of dollars seems unlikely.

    Either way, I appreciate Namer's efforts in maintaining community resources for as long as possible and even if he didn't have a reason to stop doing so, that website was much appreciated for the long time it had been active. Big Book is also closing down rather than given to different people so it seems 2024 may well be the end of abundant and helpful free community work and I personally am thankful to everyone who gave their time and money to it.
  • bennybenny ✭✭✭
    edited December 2024
    PavelHr wrote: »
    According to the final tally, the difference between the 2 players was 10%. I don't know whether someone cheated or not, and I'm not sure it's provable, the screenshots just show that the player pushed 100 000s of points within a few minutes, turning in 15 event items gives nearly 5k points and takes 1 second so proving cheating in this game would be nigh impossible. Add in the fact that anyone can pay a 3rd party to play during sleep (and not only then), even within Europe/US cheaply so it doesn't get detected by anti-cheat and it becomes a guessing game.

    Can we stop with this non-sense? Explanations were already given, and the math is crystal clear. This is exactly the attitude and ignorance the cheater might have banked on for not getting caught. Well, many of us competitive players are tracking the leaderboards closely and we know exactly how people are earning their VP. It's not rocket science, it's simple match, go back to previous comments for details. Unreal!
  • imdwalrus wrote: »
    Still radio silence since the event… @STT Community

    Y'all realize this thread was literally posted on Christmas Eve, yes? And that a lot of people have the week between Christmas and New Year's off work?

    If a response is coming it's probably going to take a little bit.

    What about all of the other posts that were made during normal business hours and still ignored?

    Its only a matter of time until there is an issue that upsets you enough that you will react along the lines of namer and countless people before, and ill give you the spoiler now: no one is going to care.

    If issues as serious as cheating are ignored, then why have any rules at all? Why care who wins or loses? Who has the most or least crew, or who wins the award for being the biggest brown-nose?

    Thank Benny-Boy.
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2024
    imdwalrus wrote: »
    Still radio silence since the event… @STT Community

    Y'all realize this thread was literally posted on Christmas Eve, yes? And that a lot of people have the week between Christmas and New Year's off work?

    If a response is coming it's probably going to take a little bit.


    It’s asinine to ask for a verdict to an investigation in so short a time. However, someone could have popped on here and simply stated, “We’re aware of the situation and are looking into it…more details to come.” That snippet took less than 5 seconds. Letting the player base know it is a priority would help to alleviate the rumors and frustration surrounding the situation.

    Personally, I just want an explanation of the math. If it can legitimately be explained, that shuts this conversation down. If it is dishonest game play, then TP needs to act accordingly with some transparency.
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.” —Mark TwainMEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy! Best Event Finish: #3 Honor Debt: Inconceivable...Honor Bank Account: Slowly building...
  • CalhounCalhoun ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2024
    PavelHr wrote: »
    According to the final tally, the difference between the 2 players was 10%. I don't know whether someone cheated or not, and I'm not sure it's provable, the screenshots just show that the player pushed 100 000s of points within a few minutes, turning in 15 event items gives nearly 5k points and takes 1 second so proving cheating in this game would be nigh impossible. Add in the fact that anyone can pay a 3rd party to play during sleep (and not only then), even within Europe/US cheaply so it doesn't get detected by anti-cheat and it becomes a guessing game.

    The score increases within the intervals in the screenshots are all neat divisibles of 1025, so there are no event items involved. I think it is unrealistically fast. If there was no lag in updating the scores, then cheating seems the obvious answer.

  • Is this game even possible to play as a brand new player without using any external resources? I would imagine the experience would be frustrating enough that the player wouldnt convert to being a long term or even regular player. Its so complicated with bells and whistles that dont work together or make any sense.

    IMO no, but how would these players find out about these external resources in the first place? Communication within the game is almost non existent these days so I doubt they’d even learn about this forum.

    With the discussion in this thread and no response from any of the devs that they even read the initial message doesn’t look good for the game. Now I’m wondering if it’s evolving into how well one can “game the game”.
  • Navarch Navarch ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are skill checks that pop up when you earn points at an accelerated rate. I had one pop up for me when I collected my shuttles in a 10 minute period during phase 2. It was one where they asked you to move the insignia to a specific location.

    Apparently TPG doesn’t like when you earn 200k points in about 10 minutes.
  • IceCatIceCat ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2024
    0m8cnsqqt31v.jpg

    Under 40 minutes, and there's a real possibility of us not hitting all the Community rewards.

    If that doesn't send a message about player engagement and satisfaction with the current game state, I'm not sure what will.

    EDITED TO ADD: We made it with 7 minutes left. Seven. Minutes.

    I think the players have spoken.
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