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Okay, Vic Fontaine question.....

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  • ClanofClanof ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Why would the crew of DS9 all be working together in a new universe that diverged hundreds of years earlier? Why would Ezri suddenly appear in the mirror universe after jadzia is killed in the prime universe? Why would jadzia even have the dax symbiot?

    Because the mirror universe isn't logically consistent. It's an excuse to let the actors play the characters differently.

    Exactly. If you want to go deeper, how do these alternate versions of primary universe crew even exist? Somehow, over hundreds of years and many generations, the precise genetic pairings needed to result in their birth were identical despite wildly varying conditions between the prime and mirror universes. Somehow, nobody's ancestor died early from warfare, famine, disease or accident; no ancestor failed to meet their spouse due to different circumstances; and the right sperm fertilized the right egg every time. The further away you go from the point of divergence, the more unlikely any of that is to happen.

    The entire concept of a mirror universe with highly divergent societies and history but genetically identical people is not really credible, but we're willing to accept it for the sake of story. Compared to that absurdity, is the idea that in the mirror universe the fates aligned to create a flesh-and-blood human with an appearance identical to a holographic person in the prime universe really that far-fetched?

    I disagree, if we're rolling with the infinite universes theory, which Star Trek seems to do (in particular "Parallels" in TNG seems to confirm) then there must be one universe in which this is exactly the case. That is the universe we are watching, and those are the things that make the mirror universe that much more interesting than any of the other random parallel universes.

    There would also have to be a universe with a real person that looks exactly like Vic and also happens to be named Vic.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Clanof wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Why would the crew of DS9 all be working together in a new universe that diverged hundreds of years earlier? Why would Ezri suddenly appear in the mirror universe after jadzia is killed in the prime universe? Why would jadzia even have the dax symbiot?

    Because the mirror universe isn't logically consistent. It's an excuse to let the actors play the characters differently.

    Exactly. If you want to go deeper, how do these alternate versions of primary universe crew even exist? Somehow, over hundreds of years and many generations, the precise genetic pairings needed to result in their birth were identical despite wildly varying conditions between the prime and mirror universes. Somehow, nobody's ancestor died early from warfare, famine, disease or accident; no ancestor failed to meet their spouse due to different circumstances; and the right sperm fertilized the right egg every time. The further away you go from the point of divergence, the more unlikely any of that is to happen.

    The entire concept of a mirror universe with highly divergent societies and history but genetically identical people is not really credible, but we're willing to accept it for the sake of story. Compared to that absurdity, is the idea that in the mirror universe the fates aligned to create a flesh-and-blood human with an appearance identical to a holographic person in the prime universe really that far-fetched?

    I disagree, if we're rolling with the infinite universes theory, which Star Trek seems to do (in particular "Parallels" in TNG seems to confirm) then there must be one universe in which this is exactly the case. That is the universe we are watching, and those are the things that make the mirror universe that much more interesting than any of the other random parallel universes.

    There would also have to be a universe with a real person that looks exactly like Vic and also happens to be named Vic.

    The problem with the Mirror Universe {realistically} is just a bigger version of why "Yesterday's Enterprise" had a huge plot hole. The Federation had been at war with the Klingons for DECADES. People die in extended wars. People get promoted FAST in wars. The Enterprise bridge crew would have been much different than it is for the regular weekly show. {also, the Enterprise D would have been a MUCH different design, if it were a warship built during an ongoing war, as opposed to the exploratory design we are used to.

    Now, look at the Mirror Universe. How do people advance in the Mirror Starfleet? ASSASSINATION. Even by the time of the episode in TOS, the Enterprise crew would have been different. Kirk had a device in his quarters that vaporized enemies, wherever they were on the ship. What are the chances that NONE of the series regulars had ever crossed him before the episode?


    Scott

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Now, look at the Mirror Universe. How do people advance in the Mirror Starfleet? ASSASSINATION. Even by the time of the episode in TOS, the Enterprise crew would have been different. Kirk had a device in his quarters that vaporized enemies, wherever they were on the ship. What are the chances that NONE of the series regulars had ever crossed him before the episode?

    I think in this particular case you could argue that Mirror Kirk and Spock were sufficiently terrifying to keep the Enterprise crew in line for an extended period of time. Kirk had the luxury of a First Officer that was both talented and kept his sense of ambition in check. I imagine most Mirror Captains didn't enjoy the same.

    Alternatively, some of the Mirror crew happen to be recent recruits. Sure, its super convenient in a casting kind of way but its easier and funner to let it pass.
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  • ClanofClanof ✭✭✭
    Clanof wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Why would the crew of DS9 all be working together in a new universe that diverged hundreds of years earlier? Why would Ezri suddenly appear in the mirror universe after jadzia is killed in the prime universe? Why would jadzia even have the dax symbiot?

    Because the mirror universe isn't logically consistent. It's an excuse to let the actors play the characters differently.

    Exactly. If you want to go deeper, how do these alternate versions of primary universe crew even exist? Somehow, over hundreds of years and many generations, the precise genetic pairings needed to result in their birth were identical despite wildly varying conditions between the prime and mirror universes. Somehow, nobody's ancestor died early from warfare, famine, disease or accident; no ancestor failed to meet their spouse due to different circumstances; and the right sperm fertilized the right egg every time. The further away you go from the point of divergence, the more unlikely any of that is to happen.

    The entire concept of a mirror universe with highly divergent societies and history but genetically identical people is not really credible, but we're willing to accept it for the sake of story. Compared to that absurdity, is the idea that in the mirror universe the fates aligned to create a flesh-and-blood human with an appearance identical to a holographic person in the prime universe really that far-fetched?

    I disagree, if we're rolling with the infinite universes theory, which Star Trek seems to do (in particular "Parallels" in TNG seems to confirm) then there must be one universe in which this is exactly the case. That is the universe we are watching, and those are the things that make the mirror universe that much more interesting than any of the other random parallel universes.

    There would also have to be a universe with a real person that looks exactly like Vic and also happens to be named Vic.

    The problem with the Mirror Universe {realistically} is just a bigger version of why "Yesterday's Enterprise" had a huge plot hole. The Federation had been at war with the Klingons for DECADES. People die in extended wars. People get promoted FAST in wars. The Enterprise bridge crew would have been much different than it is for the regular weekly show. {also, the Enterprise D would have been a MUCH different design, if it were a warship built during an ongoing war, as opposed to the exploratory design we are used to.

    Now, look at the Mirror Universe. How do people advance in the Mirror Starfleet? ASSASSINATION. Even by the time of the episode in TOS, the Enterprise crew would have been different. Kirk had a device in his quarters that vaporized enemies, wherever they were on the ship. What are the chances that NONE of the series regulars had ever crossed him before the episode?


    Scott

    You're still looking at the mirror universe from a linear perspective. If there are infinite universes, then there are universes where Kirk executed all of his crew, and others where he executed none. Every possible decision that could be made, has been made, each diverging decision leading to it's own universe. The mirror universe we see by DS9 has come to be by the way Intendant Kira explained, but there are lots of other universes that have been created from that original mirror universe when they diverged because of different decisions.
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