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Reflections, compensations, consequences

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  • Dr. AnomalyDr. Anomaly ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Unnecessary comment removed. ˜Shan
  • I agree with the OP. Here is what I'm reading into the responses above...

    F2P and those who don't buy packs are probably ok with DB's attempt to "compensate" players.

    Players who paid for packs to get a jump on the event are COMPLETELY and justifiably upset that DB changed the prearranged rules AFTER we made our purchases. By giving everyone free tickets it completely screwed up the game parameters. It rewarded players who had TIME to GRIND and penalized players who paid in advance for an edge.

    So if you paid, you got screwed and had to grind away more than anticipated over the busiest weekend of the year for a lot of people. Many people who paid to get ahead simply gave up. I saw it happen in my fleet. All the top players simply stopped playing because they weren't anticipating the extra grind over a holiday.

    As a player who pays, I am beyond upset. This was a actual game changer for me. Literally. After receiving the inadequate CS reply I have decided to drastically curb my spending. DB took my money and then changed the rules of a major event mid-game with NO REMORSE. And that's the worst part... DB has no idea that what they did was unethical. They feel there is no compelling reason to return the funds we spent or compensate us fairly.

    So I am voting with my wallet.
  • Profoundly disappointing, and mismanagement at its best.
  • Dr. AnomalyDr. Anomaly ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Unnecessary comment removed ˜Shan
  • dext74dext74 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xanathar wrote: »
    But the most important issue for me is fair compensation. By that, I mean it is NOT fair to give compensation only to those who ask for it. We can't have a situation where the people that moan the loudest get the most free stuff. Everyone should get the same, regardless of how many tickets they send.

    This.

    They already compensated and apologized for the mistakes. Whether or not you agree with the level/style/format of compensation is a different issue. And while those people who disagree are welcome to go to CS to vent and complain about it, I have a big problem that CS is giving out additional "hey we're sorry" rewards to those people.
  • My CS ticket was a request to compensate EVERYONE who invested money into the event and then had the parameters changed on them. Our (players who paid) compensation should be more than someone who spent ZERO. If you didn't pay, you had no monetary loss. Those who paid deserve something above what was given to everyone. It's not rocket science.

    How would you feel if you were told you were going to participate in an international football game... so you bought football equipment from the sponsors ahead of time to prepare.... But when you show up, it's a golf tournament!!!

    The game was announced. We spent money accordingly. The game was changed which was detrimental to our purchases. PERIOD.
  • C6pilot wrote: »
    My CS ticket was a request to compensate EVERYONE who invested money into the event and then had the parameters changed on them. Our (players who paid) compensation should be more than someone who spent ZERO. If you didn't pay, you had no monetary loss. Those who paid deserve something above what was given to everyone. It's not rocket science.

    How would you feel if you were told you were going to participate in an international football game... so you bought football equipment from the sponsors ahead of time to prepare.... But when you show up, it's a golf tournament!!!

    The game was announced. We spent money accordingly. The game was changed which was detrimental to our purchases. PERIOD.

    I agree. And I didn't spend any money on it myself.

  • pbertpbert ✭✭✭
    dext74 wrote: »
    Xanathar wrote: »
    But the most important issue for me is fair compensation. By that, I mean it is NOT fair to give compensation only to those who ask for it. We can't have a situation where the people that moan the loudest get the most free stuff. Everyone should get the same, regardless of how many tickets they send.

    This.

    They already compensated and apologized for the mistakes. Whether or not you agree with the level/style/format of compensation is a different issue. And while those people who disagree are welcome to go to CS to vent and complain about it, I have a big problem that CS is giving out additional "hey we're sorry" rewards to those people.

    Two points:
    1. Anyone who paid money on packs has a justifiable claim for a refund. I don't think you are referring to that when you say "CS is giving out...hey we're sorry rewards", but someone else might read that a different way. I think we as a player base should be encouraging our fellow players to put in a ticket for refunds in this situation.
    2. I agree that compensation in the form of chronitons, characters, etc. given out from CS is not ideal, but in this case the compensation they gave to everyone did not affect everybody in the same way. I congratulate everyone who put in the time to grind to get Mirror Crusher or otherwise move way up the leaderboard, but a large portion of the player base could not change their holiday plans to actually use this compensation. They in effect already gave out rewards to a particular subset of the player base, and those of us who were negatively affected are mainly trying to level out the lopsided effects of their initial reaction to this issue.
  • edited December 2017
    For those who have submitted tickets, what did customer support respond with:

    Please do not post ticket content on the forums, thanks. ˜Shan
  • Captain_WhoCaptain_Who ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Here's the form letter I got to dismiss me:

    Please do not post ticket content on the forums, thanks. ˜Shan
  • dext74dext74 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pbert wrote: »
    Two points:
    1. Anyone who paid money on packs has a justifiable claim for a refund. I don't think you are referring to that when you say "CS is giving out...hey we're sorry rewards", but someone else might read that a different way. I think we as a player base should be encouraging our fellow players to put in a ticket for refunds in this situation.

    Purchasing the Mirror Crusher pack gave users a leg-up in the event with the additional bonus, but they were not exclusively spending money on the EVENT. Crusher could be used outside of the event and continues to be in their inventory today. If there had been a purchase that was exclusive to the event, then yes - I would completely agree that they have justifiable claim to a refund.
    pbert wrote: »
    2. I agree that compensation in the form of chronitons, characters, etc. given out from CS is not ideal, but in this case the compensation they gave to everyone did not affect everybody in the same way. I congratulate everyone who put in the time to grind to get Mirror Crusher or otherwise move way up the leaderboard, but a large portion of the player base could not change their holiday plans to actually use this compensation. They in effect already gave out rewards to a particular subset of the player base, and those of us who were negatively affected are mainly trying to level out the lopsided effects of their initial reaction to this issue.

    I'm not sure I completely follow you... they provided honor and 6 tickets to all players of the game. Someone's personal obligations outside of the game do not get to qualify whether or not it is fair compensation. All players received the same reward.
  • Xanathar wrote: »
    Obviously this event was a complete and utter shambles. It really is amazing that such a travesty can happen; it would be hard to make it worse if you tried!

    I agree with everyone above; it was stupid to do a long expedition over Christmas in the first place. But the first and foremost thing you need to do with any event is get the start and end times right. DB couldn't even do something as basic as that. (The event was clearly supposed to end later with the extra threshold rewards and such).

    But the most important issue for me is fair compensation. By that, I mean it is NOT fair to give compensation only to those who ask for it. We can't have a situation where the people that moan the loudest get the most free stuff. Everyone should get the same, regardless of how many tickets they send.

    The other thing DB doesn't seem to understand is that we need time in advance to plan for the events. This is why we ask for (and should get) advance notice of event crew and such; we make decisions based on the information we're given. Deviating from this information and completely alternating the nature of the event once it has started is obviously unacceptable.

    I got 300 merits. You can have them if you like. I am leaving them in my inbox as a reminder of how generous DB was over the Christmas period.
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Check out our website to find out more:
    https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
  • JhamelJhamel ✭✭✭✭✭
    As I mentioned: Giving us 6 tickets was not a bad idea, but it would have been a LOT smarter to split them up into two mails with 3 tickets each, so we could actually SPLIT the "work" into two days.
    "Everything about the Jem'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris (ST-DS9 Episode 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar")
  • MagpieMagpie ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    The in-game compensation crippled some players who were already mid-game and unable to un-spend or un-use resources given the new reality. It rewarded and boosted another group of players who were able to benefit from it. Is it possible to recognize the perspectives of more than one of these groups? Is it possible to suggest an equitable solution so that this event is not a fiasco for some and a windfall for others? I would like to keep working towards a solution which does not penalize any of the participants.
  • XanatharXanathar ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I got 300 merits. You can have them if you like.

    Yes please. Why should one person get them but not everyone else?
    Do we all have to submit tickets now for this?
  • Captain_WhoCaptain_Who ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xanathar wrote: »
    I got 300 merits. You can have them if you like.

    Yes please. Why should one person get them but not everyone else?
    Do we all have to submit tickets now for this?

    I submitted a ticket for both mishaps. Marlon just gave me the bird for both.
  • I actually worked hard to achieve well in that event. I was sick though and crashed out 3 hours before the end (it was 1am my time). I had to rush through a bunch of tickets and I'm usually insanely thorough so that aggravated me. I kinda expected it to be close but I lost 600+ places in that last three hours which put me just outside the 1000. I thought I deserved something, so I asked, but hey. It will certainly teach me not to rely on a good position and probably make me less likely to go for a decent position if I need to sleep. Kinda puts a bit of a hold on my attempts to do well really. The time difference at this time of year really **tsk tsk**.
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Check out our website to find out more:
    https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
  • pbertpbert ✭✭✭
    dext74 wrote: »
    Purchasing the Mirror Crusher pack gave users a leg-up in the event with the additional bonus, but they were not exclusively spending money on the EVENT. Crusher could be used outside of the event and continues to be in their inventory today. If there had been a purchase that was exclusive to the event, then yes - I would completely agree that they have justifiable claim to a refund.

    The purchases were made with the false information provided by DB that the event would end on the 26th. Those players should ask for a refund.
    dext74 wrote: »
    I'm not sure I completely follow you... they provided honor and 6 tickets to all players of the game. Someone's personal obligations outside of the game do not get to qualify whether or not it is fair compensation. All players received the same reward.

    I'll try again. DB could and should have gone through the following process when considering giving extra tickets for this error:

    * Expedition events require tickets
    * Tickets require time to compete
    * We now are providing players with less time
    * A significant set of players will be busy because this event is during a holiday that many of our players celebrate
    * Extra tickets will be usable by some players, but not by others. In addition, the people who cannot use extra tickets are the set of players who are most affected by the shortened event duration
    * We should not give extra tickets

    All players did not receive the same reward. Some players got tickets that they could convert into VPs and subsequently a Mirror Crusher or FF Mirror Mayweather (or insert other added rewards by placing higher in the event). Other players got an in game message with some pictures on it they could look at while they were busy with holiday obligations.

    Trying to make sure every single person gets the exact same benefits from compensation was and is difficult, but surely DB could have figured out that more tickets gave a very skewed advantage to one set of players and negatively affected another.
  • As I mentioned: Giving us 6 tickets was not a bad idea, but it would have been a LOT smarter to split them up into two mails with 3 tickets each, so we could actually SPLIT the "work" into two days.

    It WAS a bad idea. It didn't solve anything but it introduced a much larger problem. The best solution was already mentioned. Since the event was shortened, simply gift everyone the last couple threshold rewards. Then decide if you want to re-run the event at a later date so everyone has the same chance to get the ranked rewards on a level playing field.

    It's a simple as that. For most players, the shortened time only meant they wouldn't reach the additional thresholds, like the Defiant. The important thing is nobody would have been negatively impacted by giving out the threshold rewards. If you reached them on your own, then you got twice as many because you deserve them.
  • dext74dext74 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pbert wrote: »
    All players did not receive the same reward. Some players got tickets that they could convert into VPs and subsequently a Mirror Crusher or FF Mirror Mayweather (or insert other added rewards by placing higher in the event). Other players got an in game message with some pictures on it they could look at while they were busy with holiday obligations.

    But I still don't see how it is DB's fault that some players were busy in their personal lives. Does the same argument extend to buying packs? Everyone has the same opportunity to buy packs in the Time Portal, but some have the money available to them and some don't. Should DB stop offering packs because it's not an offer that all players can take advantage of, despite it being offered to all of them?
  • Boycott spending money on the game, we did it on another game....they took notice....



  • But I still don't see how it is DB's fault that some players were busy in their personal lives. Does the same argument extend to buying packs? Everyone has the same opportunity to buy packs in the Time Portal, but some have the money available to them and some don't. Should DB stop offering packs because it's not an offer that all players can take advantage of, despite it being offered to all of them?
    [/quote]

    It's about the planning and the pre-spent resources. IF many players had even a hint going into the event that there would be a drastic change, players could have made a good decision about their use of resources. Because the change happened 'on the fly' in the middle of the event, it was impossible to take back the already spent money or the boosts frittered away. If I had know, I would very happily just not have played this event past getting the 3rd Picard. I would be completely happy letting others with no scheduling issues get the Bev's (and I would have tried for Troi at this event). As it is, I spent everything going for Bev, which ended up being a sabotaged for me, and now I have nothing at all left to go after Troi. Maybe this will be a turning point for some of us. I DO put responsibility on DB for the decision they made mid-event in this case. They are in charge of my STT universe; but it is a Universe I can decide to frequent or not. If the player base decides that this kind of capricious decision-making is "just part of the game," then that will make my decision easy for me. I have not previously found DB to be unfair in this respect, so I am assuming that they are working on a solution.
  • dext74 wrote: »

    But I still don't see how it is DB's fault that some players were busy in their personal lives. Does the same argument extend to buying packs? Everyone has the same opportunity to buy packs in the Time Portal, but some have the money available to them and some don't. Should DB stop offering packs because it's not an offer that all players can take advantage of, despite it being offered to all of them?

    Let me ask you this... Would you buy a pack to help you rank higher if you knew you couldn't play?
    What if you thought you might miss a day but could definitely play on Tuesday but, opps, no Tuesday, sorry. But wait, it gets worse... Since you already spent your money, you MUST play the extra tickets just to break even! Too bad you don't have time to play the extra tickets.

    So why do we buy packs, again? If the rules are going to change and benefits given to arbitrary players, what's the point of paying ahead of time to be prepared? What are we preparing for if the rules will change in a way we could never have guessed?

    Again, we did NOT receive "compensation", we received a game changing sucker punch.

    DB needs to return our DIL (MONEY) with a freaking HUGE apology after making us explain this over and over.
  • edited December 2017
    You can always do what I chose to do. I shut the game off and got the monkey off my back. It took DB screwing up an event and claiming it had given 'fair' compensation for money I'd spent on packs and time I'd wasted for several days before I realized I would not be happy continuing to give to them.

    At that point the question remained, did I want to play it free? I concluded I didn't want to do that either. There would still be the issue of them messing up events, and without faith they could give fair remedy, the spark went out.

    I'm not going to have them whizz on my head in the last event and tell me it's raining.

    Best of luck to you all.
  • DurasDuras ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Rage if you want, mistakes happen (admittedly in DB’s case they seem to happen A LOT) and given the circumstances I’d say the compensation was proportionate and appropriate. I played through the additional 6 tickets on Sunday so as to leave Christmas Day free, they were optional but in my case they allowed me to claim the final threshold rewards which I would have been unable to do without the Tuesday tickets.

    I suppose a slight improvement would have been two groups of 3 tickets so we didn’t have to play all 6 before the daily reset but it wasn’t too bad, plus I was so happy that they actually ran an expedition event in my view that outweighs the inconvenience of playing through a few extra tickets on the Sunday.

    It was clear from the start of the event that the event was down to four days, I can’t really see how anyone could have been ‘surprised’ by the event finishing on the 25th, it was clear from the event timer, and in game notifications and the compensation mail out by Saturday if not earlier that the event was going to finish a day earlier than previously billed.

    At the end of the day the mistakes to the event did affect every player the same, everyone had the same conditions to play in, the same number of tickets and the same in game communications so compensating some players more than others would not be appropriate in this case.
  • Duras wrote: »
    Rage if you want, mistakes happen (admittedly in DB’s case they seem to happen A LOT) and given the circumstances I’d say the compensation was proportionate and appropriate. I played through the additional 6 tickets on Sunday so as to leave Christmas Day free, they were optional but in my case they allowed me to claim the final threshold rewards which I would have been unable to do without the Tuesday tickets.

    I suppose a slight improvement would have been two groups of 3 tickets so we didn’t have to play all 6 before the daily reset but it wasn’t too bad, plus I was so happy that they actually ran an expedition event in my view that outweighs the inconvenience of playing through a few extra tickets on the Sunday.

    It was clear from the start of the event that the event was down to four days, I can’t really see how anyone could have been ‘surprised’ by the event finishing on the 25th, it was clear from the event timer, and in game notifications and the compensation mail out by Saturday if not earlier that the event was going to finish a day earlier than previously billed.

    At the end of the day the mistakes to the event did affect every player the same, everyone had the same conditions to play in, the same number of tickets and the same in game communications so compensating some players more than others would not be appropriate in this case.

    I didn't spend any money on this event and have no personal axe to grind. But those who do usually buy the Event Packs before, note before, the Event starts - at which point they had been clearly told that it would run an extra day. For those who expected to do most of their tickets on the last day because that was when they would have time to play, that makes a huge difference. They would not have bought Event packs before, note before, the Event started if they knew the actual timing meant they had no realistic chance of getting the placement they wanted. I'm not one of them, but I entirely understand their feelings!
  • They would not have bought Event packs before, note before, the Event started if they knew the actual timing meant they had no realistic chance of getting the placement they wanted. I'm not one of them, but I entirely understand their feelings![/quote]

    Thank-you General Chance,

    I'm f2p, so for me it's all about resources saved and then spent when I decide to "go for it." I think if DB even acknowledged that the compensation to the original problem (mistakes do happen) made the situation way worse for anyone who had spent dil or used up carefully guarded resources, it would go somewhere towards resolving this situation.

  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think a part of the issue here is that DB thinks 4,500 honor was huge compensation already. They wildly over value honor and we (possibly) under value it.

    From DBs side they think that 4500 honor is the equivalent of nearly 5 premium 10x packs. From our side we see it as just a drop in the ocean of honor needed to be useful.

    Obviously we'd all prefer they just gave us the 5 10x premium packs...

    I agree that the 6 tickets were absolutely the wrong form of compensation, but the 4500 honor should not be overlooked and nor should the fact that over the holiday period we've all gotten a 4/5 Mirror Picard and a 1/5 Will Scarlett. And the anniversary is just around the corner too.

    I know that some people are fighting for the principle of it (and I think they're right), but really, we have a lot to be happy about and the context of DBs recent generosity matters.
  • FB MagpieFB Magpie ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I'm fighting for the principle of it because it predicts how things are likely to unfold going forward. I do really enjoy the game (I've been playing for about a year, and then really started playing after I joined a fleet a couple months in). It seems to me to be worth the process of communication, to see if we work through these mishaps in a way that carries us all forward. DB has changed before in response to player suggestions. This one matters a lot to me (and maybe to other people). Thanks for seeing both sides of the coin!
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