Should super-rare items in galaxies be forced turned in when you receive them

Pallidyne

It's been proposed that one cure to the current angst and situation as well as to improve Galaxy Events overall is to force the claim of SuperRares when they are earned. This would eliminate the Phase 1/Phase 2 change in run up of points, as well as minimize the ability to snipe up ranking levels towards the end of the event.

What do you folks think?

[DC] Picard Loves Reds

I am on the West Coast USA and can't log in during the last 2 hours. I missed out on a top 2500 finishing at 2524 a few week's back, after watching the game like a hawk, carefully calculating what my finishing spot should be based the number of spots I was losing per hour, and only getting about 4 hours of sleep that Sunday night. The reality is that over the course of 4 days most of us have a similar amount of awake/sleep time and can make the priority choices (game vs. Real life) we want. Now that I know that last minute cash-ins are a strategy, I'll need to adjust my own strategy and plan on being a lot higher up than my goal when I shut off the game to start working on Monday. Now I need to decide if I want to take advantage of the boycott to try for a high ranking.....

[10F] Belle'Anna

Yes

Sadly, it doesn't work like that. They cash in and keep going giving them even more of an advantage. Me, I'm in Australia and the event ends at 4am. I've gone from an excellent rank to outside the thousand in the 2 to 3 hours sleep I need. It's not quite as bad with faction events, there's only so much dil spending to speed up shuttles in the last couple of hours, but cash-ins can amount to huge amounts of VP. It makes going for the top 1000 literally pointless for me, and 1500 is dependent on luck and how much excitement there is about characters.

But don't expect anyone to care too much. They get upset about the half hour they miss once in a blue moon, but aren't too fussed if the game is rigged against you all the time.

Knight Ranger

No

But how is it rigged? Whether they cash in early or last minute, they still get the same number of points for them. So if you're going to lose the top 1000, you're going to lose the top 1000 regardless of when they cash in. If you had those extra 2-3 hours, how would it help you unless you have your own points stashed away to blitz the leaderboard with? If you've used all your items and chronotons, those hours don't help as you can't do anything with them. All that happens if they're forced to cash in right away is that you'd be at or near your finishing rank when you go to bed rather than when you wake up. It doesn't change anything except for maybe how much hope you have in the meantime.

For the sake of example...

Example 1
You at 1am: rank 540. 300,000 points
You at 4am: rank 1120, 300,000 points

580 people have leapfrogged you. 450 of them were cashing in their bonus items right at the end. the other 130 had a voyage come back just in time or some random chrons or something to continue recipes. You finish outside the top 1000.

Example 2
You at 1am: rank 990, 300,000 points
You at 4am: rank 1120, 300,000 points

The 450 from example 1 had their bonus items automatically cashed in at the time, they've got nothing left for the end, but they're above you at 1am as they have the points from those items now rather than at 4am. You still finish outside the top 1000.

What has changed? This is what I'm not understanding [scratches head]

SST - 9of7

No

Knight Ranger wrote: »

But how is it rigged? Whether they cash in early or last minute, they still get the same number of points for them. So if you're going to lose the top 1000, you're going to lose the top 1000 regardless of when they cash in. If you had those extra 2-3 hours, how would it help you unless you have your own points stashed away to blitz the leaderboard with? If you've used all your items and chronotons, those hours don't help as you can't do anything with them. All that happens if they're forced to cash in right away is that you'd be at or near your finishing rank when you go to bed rather than when you wake up. It doesn't change anything except for maybe how much hope you have in the meantime.

For the sake of example...

Example 1
You at 1am: rank 540. 300,000 points
You at 4am: rank 1120, 300,000 points

580 people have leapfrogged you. 450 of them were cashing in their bonus items right at the end. the other 130 had a voyage come back just in time or some random chrons or something to continue recipes. You finish outside the top 1000.

Example 2
You at 1am: rank 990, 300,000 points
You at 4am: rank 1120, 300,000 points

The 450 from example 1 had their bonus items automatically cashed in at the time, they've got nothing left for the end, but they're above you at 1am as they have the points from those items now rather than at 4am. You still finish outside the top 1000.

What has changed? This is what I'm not understanding [scratches head]

Most of the play of a galaxy happens in the end. It makes quite a difference whether you invest at 1 a.m. or 4 a.m.
Most galaxies for me end in top 1000 with half a day worth of chrons left and enough components for about 30 recipes.
If I would use them I gain nothing, but have a harder time for the next galaxy.

But still it's not worth it to keep your super rares until the very end. Right now there are at least 1100 to 1200 claiming they would have made it top 1000 if they just had those last 5 minutes.

Truth is only 1000 would have made it. Why should have others that were still in the top 1000 not kept their rank? I myself was afraid to drop out of top 1000 due to the crash, as I was going down from 600 to 850 like 5mins before the end and was starting to craft another 15 super rares for a turn in --> including single turn-ins around 15k VP.

The sad truth thus is that only players playing at the very end will have a shot at galaxies. Everybody turning in too early will only lead to inflated VPs in the end making galaxies even more expensive.

Btw everybody that were around the threshold of 600k should have known that they probably won't make it in the top 1000 due to the threshold. Because any sane player having played to 590k or something would have just pushed those last 10 recipes in.
Galaxies is all about sunk cost and those extra thresholds made it even worse.

Gib - Admiral Mariners

I said no, but would like to qualify. In a full Galaxy event, no in phase one yes in phase 2. In a hybrid event yes.

[BL] Q

Don't Play Galaxy Events

There's an even Better Strategy for galaxy events ignore them completely

Pallidyne

No

[BL] Q wrote: »

There's an even Better Strategy for galaxy events ignore them completely

So why not vote in the poll "I don't play galaxies" then?

Gib wrote: »

I said no, but would like to qualify. In a full Galaxy event, no in phase one yes in phase 2. In a hybrid event yes.

Your vote didn't register apparently.

DavideBooks

Don't Care

A possible (very) long-term strategy (that has potential to fail) would be to save all of your super rares so when the event replays, you have a huge starting advantage.

The Great Gornholio

Yes

I voted yes, only because i think it would make it easier on me personally. It would be nice not to drop a couple hundred spots in the last hour lol. It would also make it easier to see how much effort you need to put in to keep your rank up.

DScottHewitt

No

No. If you do not like how the game is played, skipped the Event.



Scott

The Great Gornholio

Yes

DScottHewitt wrote: »

No. If you do not like how the game is played, skipped the Event.



Scott

See? This is why I love this guy! You always know where you stand with him lol

DScottHewitt

No

DB:DB The Great Gornholio wrote: »

DScottHewitt wrote: »

No. If you do not like how the game is played, skipped the Event.



Scott

See? This is why I love this guy! You always know where you stand with him lol

I try to be honest.

{And, the time I missed out on cashing in, I used the 144 Super Rares to Replicate Items on the way to FE.......}


Scott

EDIT TO ADD: Yes, I usually have less than 200 Super Rares, and I still oppose the change. The Event last week, I crammed with my Chronos, and got enough Super Rares to make the 130K, and get the last Star I needed on Shaft Geordi. Exactly enough Super Rares that the last 5/5 used the last five. {I think I had like 63 or something?}

Flashprod

Yes

Feels like carrying over rewards is an exploit, and not as design intended. So I voted for not carrying over.

That said - learning the exploits is how to be successful both in the game and in life, so I understand why others would differ.

DScottHewitt

No

Flashprod wrote: »

Feels like carrying over rewards is an exploit, and not as design intended. So I voted for not carrying over.

That said - learning the exploits is how to be successful both in the game and in life, so I understand why others would differ.

So, then. They need to also change the thing where the points START OVER for Crafting in Phase Two......


Just saying......



Scott

Frank?

No

I completely appreciate and understand the discussion based around timezone and real-life schedules with the ends of events. For me, events always end at the lunch hour, so I am lucky and those pitfalls don't impact me. I think the majority of mobile games are based somewhere in the US and have that same timezone setup (daily reset, etc). Other properties use GMT as the base. From a logistics standpoint, you'd want the event to end when your company, tech and developer teams were awake, in the office and at the ready if the server pooped the bed like we just experienced it. It's something that has been ingrained in the mobile game industry for years, and since everyone does what the next game developer does, we aren't likely to see that pattern change anytime soon.

That said, this becomes a slippery slope conversation over the SR turn-ins. It has been established that a glut of players feverishly turning in at the last minute *did not* contribute to the server crash. This could have well happened at the end of a shuttle event or even on an odd-Wednesday afternoon where there is no event running. It was nothing more than really unfortunate timing. What it did produce is the platform for people who have sat on a feeling or general disdain for how an event is ran and brought them to the forefront to air their thoughts. I'm glad for that, because I don't feel we, as a community, get to spitball and discuss things like this enough. We usually are too busy trying to stab each other with a very dull butter knife.

Putting it bluntly, changing the way people play existing events is dangerous because it opens up cans of worms that can't be undone, and carries with it the potential to lose players and revenue. If you were able to change the format of galaxies where there was no Ph1/Ph2 and all SR items were immediately auto-claimed upon earning that threshold, you wouldn't have a galaxy event anymore, nor would you have any intrigue. The top of the leaderboards won't be dominated by the "whales" who can afford to buy chrons by the thousands, nor save them and hoard from Voyages. Whales likely wouldn't take well to that type of change and see no return on their investment to burn straight chrons for immediate VP and have no gamesmanship. They, most likely, would just buy the event cards and move on with their day. What you're left with is a mish-mash of players who will be playing up to the last second, sending voyages for chrons, buying 50 chrons for 150 DIL, whatever they have to do. And when the event is over, and that person realizes all the resources and time they just spent to be beaten by the next guy who simply outspent them, well, that person likely won't play again.

You see, as some don't like the hoarding of SR items, other players thrive on it - it has become a go-to strategy for events and the end becomes a giant poker game and people trying to out-bluff the next. That description at least sounds appealing to me and has some intrigue, but just a bunch of players straight trading chrons and items with no last second drama? Boring.

Here's where the slippery slope kicks in - you can't just toy with Galaxy Events - you have to level the playing field everywhere. You would have to also endure and accept the camp of people that would emerge and say that the shuttle kick-start method is an exploit and not fair - you should only be able to open as many shuttle missions as you have shuttles and go at the same pace as the next guy so everyone has a fighting chance. The problem is, they don't have a fighting chance - because I'll just spend $800 and speed up every shuttle I have to jump on top of that leaderboard - so then you have to disqualify the use of DIL and only allow boosts - then it's not fair because a big spender can spend $200 on the premium boost portal and amass 75 of the 5* time reduction boosts, where a FTP player may have 3 total.

The rare Expedition event? No extra ticket purchases - what you have is what you get - but then only the spenders who previously bought and leveled the event crew will get more VP than the F2P player who uses variants - and once again we are back at square one.

The point to all of this is - you can't change the already existing model - because it isn't broken. No matter what you do, how you change it or how you try to 'improve' it, the 'Pay to Win' scenario will always, always exist. There will always be someone who is perfectly happy spending $500 or more that weekend to top an event and there is nothing that can make that "level" or "fair to all".

Frank?

No

Now all of that wall-of-text (hope you're still here!) is to say this:
Maybe instead of changing rules and things about existing models, we propose NEW event types? I think everyone would appreciate some variety to our playing, and this is certainly a catalyst to that.

Maybe we keep shuttle, galaxy, hybrid and the rare Expedition events just the way they are. But instead of calling it a day, we create a few new event types into the rotation (maybe once a month) to 'level the playing field' so everyone has a fighting chance. Make that one weekend a month the "survival' type of game where no spending of any sort is allowed - no DIL sped up shuttles, no time reducers, no SR hoarding, no extra tickets, and even a daily chron use limit on the galaxy type event. Obviously you would have to add some sort of randomizer or multiplier gimmick into this so point values vary a tad, else you would have 10,000 people in 1st with the same score. But strip the existing event types down to the bare bones and do something like that.

Not a polished idea at all, but just to show there are ways to make things more accessible to a broader scope without driving away the players that keep the doors open.

[Retired] BeamMeUpScottie

eXo | Frank wrote: »

Now all of that wall-of-text (hope you're still here!) is to say this:
Maybe instead of changing rules and things about existing models, we propose NEW event types? I think everyone would appreciate some variety to our playing, and this is certainly a catalyst to that.

Maybe we keep shuttle, galaxy, hybrid and the rare Expedition events just the way they are. But instead of calling it a day, we create a few new event types into the rotation (maybe once a month) to 'level the playing field' so everyone has a fighting chance. Make that one weekend a month the "survival' type of game where no spending of any sort is allowed - no DIL sped up shuttles, no time reducers, no SR hoarding, no extra tickets, and even a daily chron use limit on the galaxy type event. Obviously you would have to add some sort of randomizer or multiplier gimmick into this so point values vary a tad, else you would have 10,000 people in 1st with the same score. But strip the existing event types down to the bare bones and do something like that.

Not a polished idea at all, but just to show there are ways to make things more accessible to a broader scope without driving away the players that keep the doors open.

Hm...... where will DB get their revenue?

Captain_Who

No

What Frank said. It's part of the game, the strategy, and the thrill. Changing it is dangerous and would be fraught with unintended consequences. And with the server crashes and bugs already in place, do you really want to risk unintended consequences caused by messing with the games code introduce into any event?!!

New event types! That's where the fun, intrigue, and new chances to develop new strategies will come into play. I don't know about you, but I'm getting pretty bored with the existing event types, and I'd love the chance to figure out new strategies first or be out maneuvered by somebody else.

Travis S McClain

Don't Care

There's nothing whatsoever stopping any player from waiting until Phase 2 to cash in their Super Rares. Yes, the Super Rares are worth more in Phase 2 than they are in Phase 1, but they're worth the same at the beginning of Phase 2 that they're worth at the end of it. As @Knight Ranger correctly noted, regardless of when your points are totaled, you still end with the same points.

What I think a lot of players are looking for here is a clearer idea of when they can afford to bail on the event and coast. I get it. You're sitting comfortably in the rank tier you're hoping to end the event in and you want to stay there. You're also sick of crafting things for the event. I get that. But the issue isn't that other players are totaling their points at the end. It's simply that other players are accruing more points than you are. Trying to micromanage when everyone totals doesn't change that.

DScottHewitt

No

Everyone has the same chance to gather the Super Rares.

Do you want to turn them in as you get them? You can.

Do you want to try the last minute rush? You can.

Do you wanna {or have it happen accidentally} use them for Replicators after the Event? You can.


People are fussing {basically} because people use strategy. Strategy is part of most games.


The people who don't wait until the end, could.


Scott

Chewable C++

Yes

DScottHewitt wrote: »

The people who don't wait until the end, could.

No. Some people have other things going in their life. Like work, family, sleeping, etc.

Magisse

Don't Care

Well, it would save a few hundred extra taps I guess.

DScottHewitt

No

Chewable C++ wrote: »

DScottHewitt wrote: »

The people who don't wait until the end, could.

No. Some people have other things going in their life. Like work, family, sleeping, etc.

And I missed cashing mine in because the Library had a blackout one Monday. Did I grumble and moan? No, I Replicated FE Gear for a Legendary with it.

As to not being able to do it in Phase Two, I call BS on it being impossible for most people. Phase Two starts at 1200 Eastern Saturday. Events end 1200 Eastern Monday. Nowhere in there is there five minutes to click a button? that is like 48 hours. I find it hard to believe that the whole 48 hours is "blocked" for a lot of people. And I have access issues. Like, if I am working Saturday, I have 30 minutes to get online, load the game, and craft. One hour Monday morning. So, an hour and a half during Phase Two. Others might have less time, but not a whole lot less. The simple fact is, if someone has enough Super Rares to pass you at 11:30 Eastern, it would be the same if they were Auto-Crafted earlier.




Scott

Jhamel

Yes

I wouldn't mind if they did auto-turn in ... butt I think it's not gunna happen.

eXo | Cadet Matt

No

DB:DB The Great Gornholio wrote: »

DScottHewitt wrote: »

No. If you do not like how the game is played, skipped the Event.



Scott

See? This is why I love this guy! You always know where you stand with him lol

But all the returns!

RNGeverything

Yes

I’d love this, mostly because it is one less click that I have to do

[10F] Belle'Anna

Yes

DScottHewitt wrote: »

The people who don't wait until the end, could.

Scott

ROFL

The fact that not everyone can is EXACTLY the point of this thread

Mystikal

No

Personally, I am a fairly new player and I snipe. I don't snipe very last minute but I will turn in my rares the morning of if anything. For me, and my logic only, I have a better chance that the other players in the top that I want to pass may not get a chance to purchase more chrons if they do that, as I don't. I buy monthly cards from time to time but not chrons for galaxy events. That being said that's only if I am going for rank, otherwise I am turning them in right away regardless.

Dralix

[10F] Belle'Anna wrote: »

DScottHewitt wrote: »

The people who don't wait until the end, could.

Scott

ROFL

The fact that not everyone can is EXACTLY the point of this thread

Not really. Some people choose not to because they'd rather sleep, or keep their spouse, job, school grades, whatever. But that has to do with when the event ends, not the turning in of super rares specifically.

DScottHewitt

No

[10F] Belle'Anna wrote: »

DScottHewitt wrote: »

The people who don't wait until the end, could.

Scott

ROFL

The fact that not everyone can is EXACTLY the point of this thread

And, if the other guy has enough to pass you ,he is going to pass you earlier.

I already posted about a time when I did not get to turn mine in. Did I come online and snowflake about it? No, I used them for something else.


Your contention is that there is some huge number of players that cannot do them ANYWHERE in that 48 hours of Phase Two? I'm afraid I have to repeat back what was basically said to me about the holidays messing up some of us because of not having access at home. Them's the breaks. Even in my situation I can find at least an hour or so in that 48 to do them. If others cannot, they cannot. If they choose not, then that is their choice.

Always gotta some poor soul trying to ice skate uphill and whatnot......




Scott