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When is DB going to comply with Apple's requirement to reveal odds on loot boxes?

{DD} Smelly{DD} Smelly ✭✭✭✭✭
I mean, it's been a couple weeks now and still no change in the game or any official word that I've seen from DB about how they plan to comply (or not) with Apple's new requirement to reveal odds on loot boxes. Can we get some official info from someone at DB on this?
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Comments

  • Althea BiermontAlthea Biermont ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    It’s obviously something that would need a new release of updated software so I wouldn’t expect to see it until the next update at the very least

    Plus, I’m guessing that no particular game will be on Apple’s radar unless someone complains about it
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will you really trust the posted odds given the shuttle success rates? ;p

    I probably wouldn’t unless what they post are ridiculously low odds for good stuff
  • Even the odds are posted, how apple/google gonna verify them?

    They need to provide the code & algorithm.. or run gazillion pulls to verify the numbers.
  • FutureImperfectaFutureImperfecta ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even the odds are posted, how apple/google gonna verify them?

    They need to provide the code & algorithm.. or run gazillion pulls to verify the numbers.

    Apple could afford it.
    So could Google.

    Dibs on the account once there done with it. :D

  • Grant77Grant77 ✭✭✭✭
    They won't do it.
  • Even the odds are posted, how apple/google gonna verify them?

    They need to provide the code & algorithm.. or run gazillion pulls to verify the numbers.

    Apple could afford it.
    So could Google.

    Dibs on the account once there done with it. :D

    Apple treats developers similar to the way DB treat us players. Developers come and go.

    Apple doesn’t have much incentive like DB has no incentive to treat us better.

    All the news about displaying the odds etc prob just public stunt, just like DB has told us in their many posting.
  • Captain_WhoCaptain_Who ✭✭✭✭✭
    When apple gets enough complaints that they think they could be making more revenue if the pushed back, and after apple has been publicly called to task on the news for having this in their ToS but never has been caught enforcing it.
  • [SSR] GTMET[SSR] GTMET ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can anyone find or recommend the method for complaining to apple about terms of service. I think our best bet is to get a mass campaign sending in complaints but can't seem to figure out where how to send it.

    Matt
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you sure you want to do that? What if the result shuts our game down?
  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you sure you want to do that? What if the result shuts our game down?

    Meh... I’m out my $100 for 17 months...

    Whales 🐳 on the other hand... 😝😝😝
  • IMHO – there is no way to accurately show odds from any RNG based algorithms. They could give a spread, like 20%-45% chance for this, or 8.2%-17.47% for that.

    If it were me, I would just say there is >0.01% to <99.99% odds to win any given prize, and be done with it. (From a business standpoint.)
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you sure you want to do that? What if the result shuts our game down?

    Meh... I’m out my $100 for 17 months...

    Whales 🐳 on the other hand... 😝😝😝

    This game is my escape from everyday life. Perhaps I do need to quit cold turkey though

  • Yeah it is pointless unless there is enough evidence or data to verify this. Other than that it is just publicity for apple to make ppl feel better
  • edited January 2018
    This content has been removed.
  • Althea BiermontAlthea Biermont ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Are you sure you want to do that? What if the result shuts our game down?

    If that happens, DB shuts it's doors. STT is the cash cow for the company. Walking Dead isn't doing as well as they hoped and GoTA is aging.

    DB would comply with Apple's requirements before DB would shut down the game. Shutting down the game is the same thing as everyone at DB quitting their jobs.

    Plus, eventually the game will end. It doesn't matter if you are f2p or if you spend 10k a month on the game. When it ends, it ends and every player ends up with a big screen full of nothing.

  • IMHO – there is no way to accurately show odds from any RNG based algorithms. They could give a spread, like 20%-45% chance for this, or 8.2%-17.47% for that.

    If it were me, I would just say there is >0.01% to <99.99% odds to win any given prize, and be done with it. (From a business standpoint.)

    You absolutely can show the odds for a given prize on RNG. All RNG does is say items in group 1 will show up X% of the time, items from group 2 will show up Y% of the time, and items from group 3 will show up Z% of the time. It can obviously get more complicated--you could have a 1,000 different items with different odds of showing up, but the percentages/odds of something happening are known (to the developers).

    That being said, if I was a business I wouldn't want to show odds of something because most people don't understand what odds mean or how statistics work. For example, if something has a 1 in 10 chance of happening many people think that the event has to happen if you pull 10 times. That is absolutely wrong. However, people will think that and complain and make my life miserable because they don't understand such things (we see this all the time on this board already).
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honest question for any Apple user who cares to answer - what changes or official word have you seen from other games?
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    A possible answer to this dilemma is for DB to make the odds worse, say 1:12, but then guarantee it on the 12th pull if you haven't gotten it before that. They could do this for all 10x premium/event pulls. (1:12 might not be the correct odds, but there will be an odds that has the same expected value with a guarantee at a certain point). They can pool the 'Best Chance' packs differently if they want to.
  • 3 weeks after never.
  • edited January 2018
    @Dralix

    I play STT, Marvel Future Fight, and DC Legends on iOS every day. All three have in-app lootbox purchases. None have been updated to reveal numerical odds of specific item drops.

    However, it’s not clear exactly what the Apple developer guidelines require. To me, “odds” means numbers, but we don’t have enough info yet to know whether Apple will require numbers, or vaguer indicators of odds.

    Of the three I mentioned, DCL and STT give at least some vague sense of relative rarities. MFF has been experiencing its own uproar of late over lootboxes, and its in-game info about the lootbox contents is the worst of these three.
  • [BL] Q [BL] Q ✭✭✭✭✭
    One might think that the change made by Apple will make a big impact on game publishers given how popular loot boxes are. In reality, however, none of the top 25 grossing games made any changes. The reason, is that none of them are selling loot boxes as in-app purchases. While loot boxes are popular, they are commonly sold for virtual currency which can be bought for cash. If you look at the top 25 grossing apps, the items that are listed in the app store for purchase are packs of: quartzes, diamonds, crystals, gold, coins, gems. The only game we could find that will have to make a change is Hearthstone.

    Apple didn’t entirely ban loot boxes that can be purchased inside the game with in-game currency. The regulators however might decide to address this type of loot box as well. There are many game elements that are randomized, therefore the question arises of where the distinction will take place. It’s one thing to ban something that is purchasable, but if any randomized game element is banned, pandora’s box will open. My guess is that regulators will focus on purchasable items and games that are made for kids.

    Source:http://blog.soom.la/2018/01/3-thoughts-about-new-loot-box-regulations.html

  • I have not seen any games I play comply yet, not just STT. Its as I suspected. Gaming companies are going to ignore it. They can drag this out for years just with "define a loot box". Nope sorry our portals are not loot boxes please call this number to speak to our friendly lawyers.
  • [BL] Q wrote: »
    One might think that the change made by Apple will make a big impact on game publishers given how popular loot boxes are. In reality, however, none of the top 25 grossing games made any changes. The reason, is that none of them are selling loot boxes as in-app purchases. While loot boxes are popular, they are commonly sold for virtual currency which can be bought for cash. If you look at the top 25 grossing apps, the items that are listed in the app store for purchase are packs of: quartzes, diamonds, crystals, gold, coins, gems. The only game we could find that will have to make a change is Hearthstone.

    Apple didn’t entirely ban loot boxes that can be purchased inside the game with in-game currency. The regulators however might decide to address this type of loot box as well. There are many game elements that are randomized, therefore the question arises of where the distinction will take place. It’s one thing to ban something that is purchasable, but if any randomized game element is banned, pandora’s box will open. My guess is that regulators will focus on purchasable items and games that are made for kids.

    Source:http://blog.soom.la/2018/01/3-thoughts-about-new-loot-box-regulations.html

    The thing is, DB does sell loot boxes for real money. They have the 10 for $10 offer and other similar offers. So either they’ll have to release the odds on the premium 10x pulls or they’ll have to take those offers away. One can also argue that the weekly $100 offer for event crew also falls into this. You’re not only paying for the 2/5 but as per the graphic and the wording you’re also paying for 10x 10 event pulls. And since that’s real money they would have to change those offers or release odds.
  • Princess TristaPrincess Trista ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you sure you want to do that? What if the result shuts our game down?

    Meh... I’m out my $100 for 17 months...

    Whales 🐳 on the other hand... 😝😝😝

    Keep in mind that it is the 'whales' who have been the ones to pay for the game you are playing today, unlike the way the game was 17 months ago. So keep that in mind and be thankful okay??

    Trista
  • EtienneEtienne ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Are you sure you want to do that? What if the result shuts our game down?

    Meh... I’m out my $100 for 17 months...

    Whales 🐳 on the other hand... 😝😝😝

    Keep in mind that it is the 'whales' who have been the ones to pay for the game you are playing today, unlike the way the game was 17 months ago. So keep that in mind and be thankful okay??

    Trista

    I doubt that very much Trista. A normal video game costs about 50 dollars and you only pay once and those companies still manage to turn a profit. The average player here pays much more then that and whales considerably more then that ..... if DB isn't driving truck loads of dollars to the bank every week then there is something is wrong. Their product is intangible and compared to other products, what costs do they really have?

    Server costs are negligible.

    I doubt they have more then two or three tech guys.

    other support staff (which we all know they have downsized)

    Licensing fees

    and infrastructure costs.

    We all are supporting the game ever time we pay the month card fee or make purchases.... Whales are supporting DB profit margin which I am guess is considerable.
  • JeanLucKirkJeanLucKirk ✭✭✭✭✭
    Etienne wrote: »
    if DB isn't driving truck loads of dollars to the bank every week then there is something is wrong. Their product is intangible and compared to other products, what costs do they really have?

    Wrong . First of all DB pumped millions in the development of this game.

    And unlike revenue monster Candy Crush STT has a high production value as well. Next to the licence they also have to pay agencies for the translation into various languages. Again something not needed for CC and other simple games (also graphical wise) where basically you only need some good level designers.

    Also because it is Star Trek, aka not a mass market thing, and relatively complex there is another problem for king size revenue. Anyone from a lil kid to an old granny can pick up, play and understand Candy Crush and similar games, not the same thing here.

    And compared to games like, again, CC, Final Fantasy XV. Mobile Strike etc. the revenue is small really:

    https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/2/candy-crush-saga/

    https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/164583/final-fantasy-xv-a-new-empire/

    https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/58402/mobile-strike/

    https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/94910/star-trek-timelines/

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