Should Burnham have kept the part-alien trait for cadet challenges.

Mirror Cartman

DB have removed the ability of Desert Burnham and Prisoner Burnham to be used on Thursday's Tuesday's cadet challenge, because they say she is not part alien. But Burnham carriers part of Sarek's Katra, which makes her part Vulcan.

So should she be usable on Thursdays Tuesdays or not?

edit: correct day.

Dralix

Mirror Cartman wrote: »

Burnham carriers part of Sarek's Katra, which makes her part Vulcan.

It does?

Peachtree Rex

No, she is human.

Sisko doesn't apply despite being "of Bajor" according to the Prophets. It would be better consistency if she also didn't apply.

Raphillon

Dralix wrote: »

Mirror Cartman wrote: »

Burnham carriers part of Sarek's Katra, which makes her part Vulcan.

It does?

So Katra McCoy should too... Infact he does...

[SSR] GTMET

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

If cosplaying as a romulan or a klingon gives the trait romulan or kilingon, then growing up in the culture, being raised by a a vulcan family and having sarek's Katra should make her part vulcan. A child that was adopted and raised by an american family would consider themselves part american despite where they were from originally

Dralix

Having an alien trait, like Romulan Kirk, doesn't make that person part alien. The challenge requirement is part alien, not having a trait.

By all means, give her the Vulcan trait. But that doesn't change the fact that she's human, and not eligible for alien challenges.

RaraRacing

No, she is human.

Burnham is eligible on Thursday (she's female) ... she's not eligible on Tuesday (and rightly so).

Dirk Gunderson

No, she is human.

[TFA] GTMET wrote: »

If cosplaying as a romulan or a klingon gives the trait romulan or kilingon, then growing up in the culture, being raised by a a vulcan family and having sarek's Katra should make her part vulcan. A child that was adopted and raised by an american family would consider themselves part american despite where they were from originally

If the family gave their adopted kid a dog, would the dog become human? No, no matter how much the dog is a part of the family.

Pallidyne

No, she is human.

The only comparable character I can think of is Sisko

Who is part wormhole alien through his mother

So I think there's precedent.

(HGH)Apollo

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

She was adopted by a vulcan and a human and was raised on Vulcan and taught the ways of Vulcans. Culturally she is Vulcan and human. She should have both.

For Cardassia

No, she is human.

The whole spiel Riker gives for the challenge is about diversity and accepting aliens within Starfleet. It's not about their hairstyle or where they were raised, it's about Starfleet being more than a bunch of humans. And Burnham is a human.

I mean, if it was about people not born/raised on Earth, then Yar would count too, but that's not the point of the challenge.

For Cardassia

No, she is human.

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

She was adopted by a vulcan and a human and was raised on Vulcan and taught the ways of Vulcans. Culturally she is Vulcan and human. She should have both.

The argument isn't about whether or not she should have the Vulcan trait (she should, and still does), it's about whether she should count as an "alien" for an "alien" challenge.

Captain_Who

No opinion, I airlocked all STD Burnhams.

Eh, I dunno, I see both sides of the argument. Now we get into philosophy and culture and what makes one an alien? She sure as heck doesn't act human or fit in with humans.

However, some arbitrary trait doesn't affect me. Not only do I absolutely loathe the character on the show (but I kept one with a great base stat) and airlocked the < 4* versions, but she doesn't actually fill any roles better than undoubtable pure race aliens.

(HGH)Apollo

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

For Cardassia wrote: »

The whole spiel Riker gives for the challenge is about diversity and accepting aliens within Starfleet. It's not about their hairstyle or where they were raised, it's about Starfleet being more than a bunch of humans. And Burnham is a human.

I mean, if it was about people not born/raised on Earth, then Yar would count too, but that's not the point of the challenge.

It is more than hairstyle, she saw herself as vulcan. She tried to join the vulcan science academy and continue to live with vulcans. She emulated them and embraced their culture and ideals. She is genetically human but culturally vulcan. Would be good if she could be used on alien days as well.

[SSR] GTMET

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

For Cardassia wrote: »

The argument isn't about whether or not she should have the Vulcan trait (she should, and still does), it's about whether she should count as an "alien" for an "alien" challenge.

Actually she doesn't have the trait, at least none of mine do..... She should have the trait as well. I'd vote for counting her in the challenge, but I still don't get how she doesn't have the Vulcan trait.

Dralix

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

She is genetically human

The end.

For Cardassia

No, she is human.

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

For Cardassia wrote: »

The whole spiel Riker gives for the challenge is about diversity and accepting aliens within Starfleet. It's not about their hairstyle or where they were raised, it's about Starfleet being more than a bunch of humans. And Burnham is a human.

I mean, if it was about people not born/raised on Earth, then Yar would count too, but that's not the point of the challenge.

It is more than hairstyle, she saw herself as vulcan. She tried to join the vulcan science academy and continue to live with vulcans. She emulated them and embraced their culture and ideals. She is genetically human but culturally vulcan. Would be good if she could be used on alien days as well.

But again, the cadet challenge is specifically about Starfleet accepting non-human members. It's about diversity of species. As a human, she wouldn't count. Simple as that.

Also, I thought she did have the Vulcan trait, if she doesn't, then that's strange, but even with the Vulcan trait, she still shouldn't count as an alien because she is simply not an alien. She is human. And by the end of the first season she is clearly identifying with human culture as well as Vulcan, so that's barely even an argument.

Mirror Cartman

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

Dralix wrote: »

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

She is genetically human

The end.

Romulans and Vulcans are I believe genetically the same. Voths are descended from Earthlings.

The United Federation is an attempt to show how alien species can co-exist in the Federation. That is what Sarek was doing when he rescued Burnham.

Tcal

No, she is human.

While I think that Burnham should have the Vulcan trait like Katra Mccoy has or like how Benjamin Sisko, Jake Sisko, and Kasidy Yates are Bajoran, I do not believe that she should be allowed in the alien challenges, just like Sisko is not

Dralix

Mirror Cartman wrote: »

Romulans and Vulcans are I believe genetically the same. Voths are descended from Earthlings.

The United Federation is an attempt to show how alien species can co-exist in the Federation. That is what Sarek was doing when he rescued Burnham.

None of which has anything to do with the cadet challenge. The United Federation is human centric. Alien in this context means non human. Burnham is not an alien.

For Cardassia

No, she is human.

Mirror Cartman wrote: »

Dralix wrote: »

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

She is genetically human

The end.

Romulans and Vulcans are I believe genetically the same. Voths are descended from Earthlings.

The United Federation is an attempt to show how alien species can co-exist in the Federation. That is what Sarek was doing when he rescued Burnham.

They are very genetically similar, but there are still some differences. Romulans can't mind meld and are generally not telepathic, and they have ridge things on their foreheads (which by Star Trek standards means "very different and alien").

I'm not arguing what the UFP is about. That actually further emphasises the point: this specific Cadet Challenge is about aliens working together within the UFP. Riker specifically refers to Worf, the Klingon raised by human parents as an example as an alien. So if Worf counts as an alien despite being raised by Humans and joining Starfleet, how does Burnham count as an alien because of who she was raised by and what institution she wanted to join?

EDIT: And the Voth were an alien species descended from Dinosaurs. In no way does that remotely count as human. But this isn't a discussion about Voths counting in a cadet challenge.

Mirror Cartman

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

Dralix wrote: »

None of which has anything to do with the cadet challenge. The United Federation is human centric. Alien in this context means non human. Burnham is not an alien.

Riker's description is Alien, or Part Alien. He does not say how big that part is.

For Cardassia wrote: »

They are very genetically similar, but there are still some differences. Romulans can't mind meld and are generally not telepathic, and they have ridge things on their foreheads (which by Star Trek standards means "very different and alien").

Humans are not generally telepathic, but Burnham is, she could communicate with Sarek across vast distances, something we didn't see Spock do.

For Cardassia

No, she is human.

Mirror Cartman wrote: »

Dralix wrote: »

None of which has anything to do with the cadet challenge. The United Federation is human centric. Alien in this context means non human. Burnham is not an alien.

Riker's description is Alien, or Part Alien. He does not say how big that part is.

For Cardassia wrote: »

They are very genetically similar, but there are still some differences. Romulans can't mind meld and are generally not telepathic, and they have ridge things on their foreheads (which by Star Trek standards means "very different and alien").

Humans are not generally telepathic, but Burnham is, she could communicate with Sarek across vast distances, something we didn't see Spock do.

Tehcnically, Sarek communicated with her, and when she reached out to him, she was using his katra. She is not telepathic by nature.

Picard also has part of Sarek's Katra, should he count as an alien?

And Burnham is no part alien. She is 100% human, genetically.

Mirror Cartman

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

For Cardassia wrote: »

And Burnham is no part alien. She is 100% human, genetically.

Seven in blue is 100% genetically human. She has borg implants, and so counts as part alien for Tuesday's challenge.

Burnham has a Vulcan Katra implant.

K Han Solo Ng & Thank4 All Dtea

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

For Cardassia wrote: »

The whole spiel Riker gives for the challenge is about diversity and accepting aliens within Starfleet. It's not about their hairstyle or where they were raised, it's about Starfleet being more than a bunch of humans. And Burnham is a human.

I mean, if it was about people not born/raised on Earth, then Yar would count too, but that's not the point of the challenge.

It is more than hairstyle, she saw herself as vulcan. She tried to join the vulcan science academy and continue to live with vulcans. She emulated them and embraced their culture and ideals. She is genetically human but culturally vulcan. Would be good if she could be used on alien days as well.

So DB is as short-sighted as Vulcan Science Academy! Also 6 billion population and one science academy!

K Han Solo Ng & Thank4 All Dtea

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

(HGH)Apollo wrote: »

For Cardassia wrote: »

The whole spiel Riker gives for the challenge is about diversity and accepting aliens within Starfleet. It's not about their hairstyle or where they were raised, it's about Starfleet being more than a bunch of humans. And Burnham is a human.

I mean, if it was about people not born/raised on Earth, then Yar would count too, but that's not the point of the challenge.

It is more than hairstyle, she saw herself as vulcan. She tried to join the vulcan science academy and continue to live with vulcans. She emulated them and embraced their culture and ideals. She is genetically human but culturally vulcan. Would be good if she could be used on alien days as well.

So DB is as short-sighted as Vulcan Science Academy! Also 6 billion population and one science academy!

Mbannar

No opinion, I airlocked all STD Burnhams.

Air lock them all

Travis S McClain

It was too much of a stretch to rationalize Burnham qualifying as "part-alien"...but man, did I enjoy being able to use her on Tuesdays!

Captain Q

Yes, she carriers part of Sarek's Katra.

Burnham got DACA'ed...

RikerWasNumber1

No opinion, I airlocked all STD Burnhams.

Somewhere in space are a bunch of "Michael" (dude's name) Burnhams all with "Not a real Star Trek Character" trait.

For Cardassia

No, she is human.

Mirror Cartman wrote: »

For Cardassia wrote: »

And Burnham is no part alien. She is 100% human, genetically.

Seven in blue is 100% genetically human. She has borg implants, and so counts as part alien for Tuesday's challenge.

Burnham has a Vulcan Katra implant.

All Borg are other species with the Borg implants. The very definition of Borg is that they have the implants. That's the exact thing that makes them a unique species.

Vulcans are not Vulcans just because they have Katras (which aren't remotely the same thing as Borg implants, so that's a ridiculous comparison). They are Vulcans because they carry Vulcan genetic code. Does Burnham have green blood? Nope. Pointy ears? Nope. Can she survive in low-oxygen environments? Nope. Does she have the strength, stamina or speed of a Vulcan? Nope, nope and nope. Does she go through the Pon farr every seven years? Nope. Is she an actual telepath? Nope. Can she initiate mind melds with random beings? Nope. Does she have a single shred of Vulcan DNA? Nope.

She's a human with part of a Vulcan Katra. Again, just like Picard is (eventually). She is not part alien, she is human. Both her parents were human, 100% of her DNA is human.