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Surak, the Gauntlet Beast

p377y7h33fp377y7h33f ✭✭✭
in The Bridge
Mirror Picard was bad enough for the gauntlet. Now Surak is on par with Locutus, better than Yarnek, and EVERYONE will bring him! Walls, walls, walls!

CMD+SEC = walls of Picard
MED+DIP = walls of Guinan
And now...
SCI+CMD = walls of Surak
SCI+DIP = walls of Surak

Not to mention Mirror Phlox. Refresh, refresh, refresh. Thanks for making the gauntlet even more unplayable, and even more of a merit sink, DB.
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Comments

  • Speckles the Destroyer of WorldsSpeckles the Destroyer of Worlds ✭✭✭✭
    My current gauntlet round is just wall to wall mirror Picard. So I guess some variety of foes I only have a 50/50 shot with is cosmetically an improvement.
  • YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    His Gauntlet stats are good for sure, but I'm not sure they're broken... Mirror T'pol could keep up, especially with a crit bonus or two
  • p377y7h33fp377y7h33f ✭✭✭
    Yateball wrote: »
    His Gauntlet stats are good for sure, but I'm not sure they're broken... Mirror T'pol could keep up, especially with a crit bonus or two

    The difference is Mirror T'Pol was event crew like a year ago, and few people have her or are willing to bring her. Surak is basically free, and a week from now he will be dominating every gauntlet.
  • [DB:LOL] eXo | Kurrostanza[DB:LOL] eXo | Kurrostanza ✭✭✭
    I've started seeing multiple Caretakers as well, it's only going to be a matter of time before you see walls of Caretakers, Suraks, Picards and Guinans, and the Gauntlet will be pretty much homogenized. The only variance will be Mirror Phlox versus Defensive Phlox from time to time.

    I'd hate to start advocating for banning certain crew in the Gauntlet, but it feels like we're getting to that point. Or at least have different tiers like the arena where only certain crew are allowed.

    It's gotten to the point that if I see a CMD Gauntlet, I just skip it entirely.
  • IrialIrial ✭✭✭✭
    I think The Gauntlet is very playable - I am finding 'creativity' in crew selection is making it both more interesting for me, as well as opening up new avenues for me to be successful.

    For example, you mention Mirror Phlox - not long ago I actually froze mine into the Cryostasis Vault, and am doing just fine without him. In fact I recently finished # 1 in a Gauntlet without him where the featured skill was Medicine!

    Regarding Mirror Jean-Luc Picard, I rarely choose to include him in my crew - basically only if he has a 45% Crit Chance. The point is, instead of copying what the 'wall' players are doing, try "thinking outside the box" on which different crew you can use to win battles, and grow your Trophy count.

    And as far as Merits are concerned, I am easily ending up with a net plus of these from my Gauntlet play - it is most definitely not a "sink" on these.
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    [DB:IGU] eXo | Kurrostanza wrote: »
    I've started seeing multiple Caretakers as well, it's only going to be a matter of time before you see walls of Caretakers, Suraks, Picards and Guinans, and the Gauntlet will be pretty much homogenized. The only variance will be Mirror Phlox versus Defensive Phlox from time to time.

    My previous post was tongue in cheek, but there's a grain of truth to it. I hardly ever bring Guinan - she just doesn't bring enough to make the cut. Mirror Picard only beats out Kahless with a crit advantage, sometimes not even then.

    Some crew look great on paper, but don't really help your team because they only have one strong combo, or overlap with other crew.
  • MikewastakenMikewastaken ✭✭
    It occurred to me that one possible way to help rejuvenate the Gauntlet, especially since the horses are firmly out of the barn with Mirror Picard and now Surak, is to introduce trait penalties.

    So in addition to certain traits adding a bonus to your crit chance, other traits impose a penalty on your overall skill proficiency. Say, 5% each.

    An example:
    Trait bonuses: Veteran, Maverick, Innovator
    Trait penalties: Human, Duelist, Communicator

    Mirror Picard would have a 45% crit chance but also a 10% deduction to his overall proficiency scores.

    It might not make a huge difference in the course of actual matchups, but it could nudge people to choose different crew, and break up the walls of duplicates that most everyone agrees are a problem.
  • PinkyfirstPinkyfirst ✭✭✭
    [DB:IGU] eXo | Kurrostanza wrote: »
    I've started seeing multiple Caretakers as well, it's only going to be a matter of time before you see walls of Caretakers, Suraks, Picards and Guinans, and the Gauntlet will be pretty much homogenized. The only variance will be Mirror Phlox versus Defensive Phlox from time to time.

    I'd hate to start advocating for banning certain crew in the Gauntlet, but it feels like we're getting to that point. Or at least have different tiers like the arena where only certain crew are allowed.

    It's gotten to the point that if I see a CMD Gauntlet, I just skip it entirely.

    I skip every COM gauntlet. Although, in my last MED gauntlet, I got 3 COM to every 1 MED.
  • p377y7h33fp377y7h33f ✭✭✭
    The point is that some of us have worked on collecting top gauntlet crew for a while. It's not about which 5 crew you bring, it's about the abundance of strong opponents brought by everyone and their mother, and they might not even have any immortalized purples in their first couple of months of playing, but they do get a strong proficiency legendary crew with no effort.

    The matchmaking, of course, throws you against a wall of these well equipped noobs, conveniently skipping the players that don't have that particular skill pair well covered. It's been harder and harder to keep a steak going without wasting a motherload of merits, and now Surak will contribute to that dynamic even more. Borgie's CMD+SCI will be absolutely useless. Locutus DIP+SCI advantage will be gone. Pretty sure throwing Kahless against Surak at CMD+DIP will be a high risk. Refresh, refresh, refresh. Ugh!
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    p377y7h33f wrote: »
    Yateball wrote: »
    His Gauntlet stats are good for sure, but I'm not sure they're broken... Mirror T'pol could keep up, especially with a crit bonus or two

    The difference is Mirror T'Pol was event crew like a year ago, and few people have her or are willing to bring her. Surak is basically free, and a week from now he will be dominating every gauntlet.

    Surak is great in the sense that he's worse than Locutus, Seven and Daystrom. Oh wait, that's not very good is it?

    He has very solid gauntlet stats but there's a sufficient variety of good SCI gauntlet characters that he might not make the cut all the time.

    Honestly, the only broken Gauntlet character is the Caretaker because there is nothing in game that's comparable to him. ENG was always the weakest Gauntlet stats and then he jumps in with one of the best Gauntlet rolls in the game.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
  • [SSR]Trollhammeren[SSR]Trollhammeren ✭✭✭✭
    he's not bad, you don't see wall to wall T'kuvma / Queen / Cornwell or Kortar. Picard is worse because he is almost up there with the gauntlet powerhouses like : Khaless / Gowron / Seven . He can even go tow to tow with Locutus if its just 1 stat vs 1 stat.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    As someone who has Mirror T'Pol, this means I will face stiffer competition, but let's not get our noses out of whack. On gauntlets when "Duelist" is a trait, she'll be the one I choose, but when "Inspiring" is a trait, I'll choose Surak. There's increased competition in the gauntlet generally now compared to a year ago, and that's partially driven by the wide availability of a few key legendary characters (like Mirror Picard and now Surak), but it's also driven by (1) more players making crew choices in order to win in the gauntlet, and (2), more super rare characters with solid gauntlet stats (like Mirror LaForge and Nurse Garland). DB is trying to give lots of players a shot at winning a gauntlet. While as a long-time player who had built up an advantage, that frustrates me sometimes, I think it's better for the game overall.
    Fleet: Starship Trista
    Captain Level: 95
    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
    Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dirk Gunderson wrote: »
    Are walls of Mirror Picard (or Mirror Phlox, or Guinan, etc.) annoying? I suppose. But when you use the gauntlet as a merit farm, rather than dumping all of your merits and dilithium into extending a streak, it really isn’t that annoying.

    Not only that, but you can still win with aggressive redshirting instead of merit refreshes.
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »
    Dirk Gunderson wrote: »
    Are walls of Mirror Picard (or Mirror Phlox, or Guinan, etc.) annoying? I suppose. But when you use the gauntlet as a merit farm, rather than dumping all of your merits and dilithium into extending a streak, it really isn’t that annoying.

    Not only that, but you can still win with aggressive redshirting instead of merit refreshes.

    I just redshirted my way from 16th to 11th, so I will definitely be doing more farming. 🖖🏻
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • This Sisko1This Sisko1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Idk how much I'll use him but it's free so I'm happy
  • SSR BarkleySSR Barkley ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think I'd use him a whole bunch either, unless traits match
    /SSR/ Barkley - semi retired
    Second Star to the Right - Join Today!
  • ÷ The Eternal Champion÷ The Eternal Champion ✭✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »
    Maybe the master plan is that once there's a dozen gauntlet beasts, we'll have diversity because you can only bring five.

    QFT (quoted for truth).
    “You must understand that there is more than one path to the top of the mountain”
    ― Musashi, Japan's Greatest Swordsman and Samurai
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Eternal Champion wrote: »
    Dralix wrote: »
    Maybe the master plan is that once there's a dozen gauntlet beasts, we'll have diversity because you can only bring five.

    QFT (quoted for truth).

    By that logic then the same 5 will be seen each gauntlet based on skill and traits, lol
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    Surak is very strong:

    #2 overall average gauntlet score
    #1 SCI/CMD Roll
    #2 SCI/DIP Roll
    #14 DIP/CMD Roll

    His stat allocation is comparable to Assimilated La Forge (three fairly high rolls with none particularly standing out).

    The problem with fitting him into my current composition is that:
    SCI/DIP is covered by Locutus (#1 in that category, marginally better))
    SCI/CMD is "covered" by Kahless (Surak would be a clear upgrade here)
    DIP/CMD is covered by Kahless (#8 in that category, ~10% higher average roll)

    So, the slot Surak is competing with is Kahless. Replacing Kahless with Surak absolutely tanks my, already weak, CMD/ENG and CMD/SEC (which used to be a strength) with the only real plus being that he strengthens SCI/CMD.

    I suspect people with already strong gauntlet crews will, as I am, struggle to find a spot. A lot of the other best-in-slot characters just overlap a bit too much for him to be that useful without a trait advantage of some sort.

    However, if you're missing a Locutus or Kahless, odds are this guy will be a great add to your squad. Like Mirror Picard before him, I think DB did a good job of creating a character that was difficult for already strong players to fully utilize, but lower-power players will be able to pop him right in.

    I'm all for more competition in the gauntlet :)
  • barrydancerbarrydancer ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »

    Not only that, but you can still win with aggressive redshirting instead of merit refreshes.

    Redshirting. I didn't know what I've been doing had a name, but I love it.

    I absolutely refuse to pay for refreshes now after this debacle. 65% crit Momma Troi versus 5% crit Mirror Picard.

    y93wgxvpq4t2.png

  • The Great GornholioThe Great Gornholio ✭✭✭✭✭
    barrydancer wrote: »
    Dralix wrote: »

    Not only that, but you can still win with aggressive redshirting instead of merit refreshes.

    Redshirting. I didn't know what I've been doing had a name, but I love it.

    I absolutely refuse to pay for refreshes now after this debacle. 65% crit Momma Troi versus 5% crit Mirror Picard.

    y93wgxvpq4t2.png

    Looks like my Gauntlet this morning lol
  • ApaggApagg ✭✭✭
    Redshirting = sacrificing a character? How does this help win in gauntlet?
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    Apagg wrote: »
    Redshirting = sacrificing a character? How does this help win in gauntlet?

    Saves merits for a refresh.
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    Apagg wrote: »
    Redshirting = sacrificing a character? How does this help win in gauntlet?

    It doesn't help win, but it doesn't necessarily hurt. My point is that it's possible to rank high and even win without continually spending merits on refreshes.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Peachtree Rex wrote: »
    Surak is very strong:

    #2 overall average gauntlet score
    #1 SCI/CMD Roll
    #2 SCI/DIP Roll
    #14 DIP/CMD Roll

    His stat allocation is comparable to Assimilated La Forge (three fairly high rolls with none particularly standing out).

    The problem with fitting him into my current composition is that:
    SCI/DIP is covered by Locutus (#1 in that category, marginally better))
    SCI/CMD is "covered" by Kahless (Surak would be a clear upgrade here)
    DIP/CMD is covered by Kahless (#8 in that category, ~10% higher average roll)

    So, the slot Surak is competing with is Kahless. Replacing Kahless with Surak absolutely tanks my, already weak, CMD/ENG and CMD/SEC (which used to be a strength) with the only real plus being that he strengthens SCI/CMD.

    I suspect people with already strong gauntlet crews will, as I am, struggle to find a spot. A lot of the other best-in-slot characters just overlap a bit too much for him to be that useful without a trait advantage of some sort.

    However, if you're missing a Locutus or Kahless, odds are this guy will be a great add to your squad. Like Mirror Picard before him, I think DB did a good job of creating a character that was difficult for already strong players to fully utilize, but lower-power players will be able to pop him right in.

    I'm all for more competition in the gauntlet :)

    I’m 99% certain that Yarnek has a better minimum, average, and maximum SCI/COM proficiency than Kahless. I don’t have Kahless but the base proficiencies on my Yarnek before starbase bonuses are as follows:

    COM - 191-440
    SCI - 304-584

    So unless Kahless has a COM roll at or above 495-1024, Yarnek is still #2 behind Surak for the SCI/COM combination.
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dirk Gunderson wrote: »
    Peachtree Rex wrote: »
    Surak is very strong:

    #2 overall average gauntlet score
    #1 SCI/CMD Roll
    #2 SCI/DIP Roll
    #14 DIP/CMD Roll

    His stat allocation is comparable to Assimilated La Forge (three fairly high rolls with none particularly standing out).

    The problem with fitting him into my current composition is that:
    SCI/DIP is covered by Locutus (#1 in that category, marginally better))
    SCI/CMD is "covered" by Kahless (Surak would be a clear upgrade here)
    DIP/CMD is covered by Kahless (#8 in that category, ~10% higher average roll)

    So, the slot Surak is competing with is Kahless. Replacing Kahless with Surak absolutely tanks my, already weak, CMD/ENG and CMD/SEC (which used to be a strength) with the only real plus being that he strengthens SCI/CMD.

    I suspect people with already strong gauntlet crews will, as I am, struggle to find a spot. A lot of the other best-in-slot characters just overlap a bit too much for him to be that useful without a trait advantage of some sort.

    However, if you're missing a Locutus or Kahless, odds are this guy will be a great add to your squad. Like Mirror Picard before him, I think DB did a good job of creating a character that was difficult for already strong players to fully utilize, but lower-power players will be able to pop him right in.

    I'm all for more competition in the gauntlet :)

    I’m 99% certain that Yarnek has a better minimum, average, and maximum SCI/COM proficiency than Kahless. I don’t have Kahless but the base proficiencies on my Yarnek before starbase bonuses are as follows:

    COM - 191-440
    SCI - 304-584

    So unless Kahless has a COM roll at or above 495-1024, Yarnek is still #2 behind Surak for the SCI/COM combination.

    I did not claim Kahless had a strong SCI/CMD, he simply is the "best" at it in my strongest crew setup:

    Kahless
    Locutus
    Gangster Spock
    The Caretaker
    Guinan/Inquis Troi
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