All The Complaining About Crew Slots Is Getting Tiresome
Irial
✭✭✭✭
in The Bridge
Yesterday I saw yet again more complaining about Crew Slots. Here is how I see Crew Slots within STT:
- when the game was first created, DB made a decision to have Crew Slots be a limited resource within the game
- players were given the option to support the game financially through the purchase of additional Crew Slots
- there are many players who now have 250+ Crew Slots in the game, because they spent their money to have this advantage
- it is reasonable that players who spend little, or no money at all, on the game should be at a disadvantage to players who have spent a substantial amount
- given that players have spent money to acquire Crew Slots, it would be extremely unreasonable for DB to now provide free unlimited Crew Slots to all players
- allowing players to freeze non-FF’d characters who are FE would practically be the same as giving players unlimited Crew Slots, and so this would be a bad idea to implement
Having said the above, what do I think players should do when playing a game that confronts them with a limited resource?
They should view all limited resources within a game as a challenge they need to manage. They should strive to achieve the best possible result within the context of the limited resources they face. Players should use their intellect to develop strategies. I think using one’s mind in this manner is a constructive exercise.
For me personally, if I were to endlessly whine and complain about the rules of a game, I do no think this would provide me with any value or benefit.
- when the game was first created, DB made a decision to have Crew Slots be a limited resource within the game
- players were given the option to support the game financially through the purchase of additional Crew Slots
- there are many players who now have 250+ Crew Slots in the game, because they spent their money to have this advantage
- it is reasonable that players who spend little, or no money at all, on the game should be at a disadvantage to players who have spent a substantial amount
- given that players have spent money to acquire Crew Slots, it would be extremely unreasonable for DB to now provide free unlimited Crew Slots to all players
- allowing players to freeze non-FF’d characters who are FE would practically be the same as giving players unlimited Crew Slots, and so this would be a bad idea to implement
Having said the above, what do I think players should do when playing a game that confronts them with a limited resource?
They should view all limited resources within a game as a challenge they need to manage. They should strive to achieve the best possible result within the context of the limited resources they face. Players should use their intellect to develop strategies. I think using one’s mind in this manner is a constructive exercise.
For me personally, if I were to endlessly whine and complain about the rules of a game, I do no think this would provide me with any value or benefit.
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Comments
When they release new game modes they normally give out more slots as you need to keep more crew on hand to play the game properly. One of the things I have noticed of late is that in an attempt to make Gauntlet more interesting, they have been expanding the number of useful crew for that game mode. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect another 5 free slots if they are going to continue in that vain.
I’m comfortable at 188/195 and can generally keep up with the torrid pace at which new crew are released...as long as I don’t get too many 1/5* that will sit forever because I’m successful enough to get them but don’t spend enough to fuse them into sufficient replacements for 4/4* crew.
The biggest issue is still that it is very difficult to max out a legendary character in the current environment. People were hoping an honor change would be made but that doesn't seem like it will happen.
I think the next best option is to increase the chance of getting a legendary crew member. It is around 1.25% right now. If it is brought up to 2.5% or even a bit higher it may make a big enough difference without causing any major changes to the game.
But everytime i am doing well in the event, that’s another 1/5* or 3/4* (for faction event) that occupying the slot. So at some point, i will have so many not immortalized that I will have problem swapping crews — But I will never see that day
You know what would help stop that complaining? More crew sots.
By the way, I’m one of those who have purchased crew slots. But I would still like more free ones. It won’t make me feel bad.
You missed important thing, especially for new players. Between amount of 4* circulation and power creep value of slots diminished as you need to keep all those 1/4 and 2/4 characters in hope of eventually gathering them.
Yeah, you can say "then don't keep them" but then because of very same character overload it will diminish your gains of said characters from normal and even paid sources.
It's arguably worth for new paying customers, they open packs and realize that they need bajilion crew slots to keep characters from said packs.
And you can't freeze non-FF...
And less said about constant stream of new 1/5 the better. Consciously fail event you know you can get in top 1000 is NOT fun, but 1/5 can't be frozen and at 1/5 mostly useless.
EDIT: the first sentence below may be incorrect. i'm still trying to dig through the old forums to remind me how this all started.
When the game was first created, there were no crew slots. A couple updates later, DB realized they had a serious coding issue on their side. Each time a player opened the crew page, the game would have to lookup/calculate all build items for all crew. it got to a point where the queries were taking too long.
DB's solution was not to fix the query, or alter the functionality (say, query the character's build list when you select a specific character, simply build lists/materials, etc). They admitted the problem and posed a "solution" to the user community: we must limit the number of crew you can have active in order to keep the query loads down.
Instead of fixing the problem, DB chose to penalize players and monetize their coding failures by creating crew slots and selling them back to the players.
Let me fix that for you: there are many players who succumbed to DB's shortcomings in order to keep the game somewhat playable (instead of insanely difficult), or paid in the hopes that DB would use this funding to fix the problem. There is a smaller subset of players who spent their money to gain an advantage.
And this next point goes either one of two ways:
1) the crew build query issue is still real and doesn't affect that many people because not that many people have 250+ crew slots
2) DB fixed the problem but kept the solution away from the players except for those that paid.
No disagreement here, except it's based on a faulty premise. monetization of crew slots was not an P2W strategy/f2p limitation. That is has been bastardized/perverted to that level is a side effect, not the actual cause.
DB should have used the extra money to fix the problem and release the solution to all players. The players that paid should have been compensated in a different form (either dilithium refund, citations, packs, honor, etc)
DB has put themselves into this corner by offering crew slots (either for purchase or one-time bonus) in the first place. If this was really a load/query/functional issue, no additional crew slots should have been made available to anyone. To wit: why is it now permissible for me to have 250+ crew slots? what happened to the query bottlenecks that caused the crew slot problem in the first place? Either the problem has been rectified (and players have funded that fix many times over) and we're still paying for it, or DB overstated the gravity of the problem.
Second, DB compounds the problem by creating new game mechanics that require more unique crew (see: advanced cadet challenges, gauntlet, voyages, mega events, etc.), and insisting on creating on average 2-3 new crew every single week (with the rare exception of re-runs, where it's still normally 1 new character). I don't know if it's even possible to play all the mechanics with the base number of crew slots (and no, i don't mean filling shuttles/voyages with cadets in the hopes of a 1% success rate - i mean actually being able to play them).
Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that DB shouldn't create new game mechanics (they are all very welcome!), but the rise in new crew required to play the game does not match the balance of crew slots available.
Rules of the game - you've just made my point for me. DB changed the rules of the game in the middle of the game. They are infamous for moving goalposts during, and this is yet another example.
Players get it - mistakes get made (although not this often). But for DB to be so insidious as to penalize/monetize their mistake is what rubs players the wrong way. Crew slots was not a limited resource. DB made it limited because they couldn't/wouldn't fix the problem.
Honestly, I don't like when DB hands out free crew slots because it's such a tease and pours salt into the open wound.
Either DB fixed the problem and is still penalizing players/monetizing it out of greed, or it was never a problem to begin with. I don't think it's the latter, which only leads me to the former.
There are so many ways to fix this without penalizing players:
1) stop creating so many unique equipments/components. DB can't even keep them straight to the point where sometimes not only are they the same icon, they're also the same name, but it's actually 2 different items (see: phasers)
2) simplify build trees & allow for equipment/component upgrades/downgrades (e.g. use 4x 1* to build a 2*, or tear down a 4* into 2x 3*s)
3) stop creating so many new crew, or make crew multi-purpose. and more importantly, stop creating crew that are useless (low base, low rolls)
and this is just off the top of my head...
I wasn't around from day 1, but this the first time I've heard this. The story I've heard many times is that crew slots were limited from day 1 because of a lesson learned from their GoT title.
But that doesn't mean that the game should always be hard!
Dismissing's not for me.
Cause...you're never gonna stop the songs, by complaining.
Want slots for free! Thread's not worrying, me.
Thread's not worrying, me.
Sorry, couldn't resist a little poke at you.
62 more crew until I can have three times as many immortals as crew slots.
I'm trying to dig through the old forums to find the post. I may have been mistaken about crew slots not being there from day 1. But i definitely remember the post about how the slots had to be limited because of the build query issue.
Maybe I was thinking about the beta?
But the rest of my post is still valid, and the crew slots were not as big of a problem since this was before weekly events and 1-3 new crew members every week.
More free slots as account perks would make the game more attractive to new players that would lead to more incoming revenue.
Giving things for free when doing right are ways to make your product more appealing.
If your proposal really is 1 slot per mega event, then I think they're actually ahead of that rate. I'm pretty sure they've given out 2 sets of 5 slots across the 6 or 7 mega events we've had.
I'm not disputing that, but I thought it was GOTA that had the problem, and STT implemented crew slot limits to prevent it in the first place.
[DB-DO BETTER] [7TW] Captain plim123
thoe, i haven't been here from day one, i have said much the the same thing.
with the influx of new crew constantly being added the crew slot issue becomes a compounding issue.
i have suggested a couple possible fixes,
1. Beholds give a 4th or even 5th choice.
2. allow partial freeze of FE crew that have a substantial build or been paid for.
3. increase the number of starter crew slots per crew added to the mix, at 1:4 ratio.
i feel this would be fair in comparison, maybe not perfect, but fair.
[FSC] Peace Keepers
Gryphon [****] Adm
Whatever the answer, it is obvious that a F2P is at a HUGE disadvantage with limited slots, but for those of us that choose to spend, it adds a measure of strategy to the game that is otherwise lacking. I chose very specific crew to keep and level that enabled me to clear all cadet challenges and the galaxy map (done and done). I have 215 slots, currently only 202 occupied, 284 immortals (101 Legendary, 35 immo'd). Now I only pursue crew that will enable me to complete all the collections. Do I wish I had more slots, absolutely! Do I expect to get any soon....not likely.
Even a 50% cost discount would still equate to $5 per new crew slot, which seems outrageous.
I am a VIP12 who has been playing for 15 months, and I've never had to airlock a single 4* crew, but it has been stressful at times. This was especially troublesome about 6 months in, when I was getting good enough to acquire new crew via events, but not good enough to fully fuse those crew members, or to even be able to complete some missions that are required to get equipment to finish lots of 4* (and even some tricky 3*) crew.
Part of the fun of this game is collecting crew. It gets frustrating to constantly have to freeze crew that I looked forward to acquiring, spent time & chrons levelling, only to vault because they weren't super useful, were redundant, or I simply needed the space. When I first downloaded STT 15 months ago, part of the marketing was about building the crew I wanted, as a long-time fan of Star Trek. However, this isn't really the case, since it's more about the crew I am force-fed and/or feel almost required to have to do well in the various aspects of the game (ie: events, gauntlet, voyages, missions, challenges, arena battles, collections, etc...).
Even as a VIP12, I still have just 190 crew slots, which only allows me to keep approximately 35% of total crew active. That really isn't overly fun, since there is a card collecting game at the heart of STT. I can't help but think that crew slots should be an ever-expanding slider, ensuring a minimum % of total crew can always be active (40%-50% would be great; 215-269 at the moment, with 538 crew in the game as I write this). Players could still spend money/dilithium to carry more crew, approaching the full 100% crew compliment.
Secondly, if there were adequate tools to search, evaluate, and shuffle crew back and forth, maybe it'd be an interesting gameplay mechanic. But those tools only recently became available and they're still buggy/inadequate.
Third, we're forced to pay with not one, but two limited resources to deal with this issue (the crew slots themselves, plus merits). That's a double-whammy of punishment.
Lastly, most games, let alone RPGs, when you you talk about crew management, shuffling slots, etc it's usually with respect to the active party you're playing with. That's more akin to choosing who to send on a shuttle/gauntlet/voyage. I can't think of another game where you have two tiers of crew like this - again, probably because this was a bastardized jury-rigging "solution" to a problem.
Honestly, I've tried long and hard to find a single redeeming rationale for crew slots and I can't think of a single one besides having to scroll less.
If we had things like character "classes" (in this case, shuttle class, gauntlet class, voyage class), and the right sortable/searching tools to evaluate the crew, that would at least help. But even the basic stat sorting & searching functionality is buggy.
You lost the argument right there. When the game was first created the number of crew slots in the game was greater than the number of crew in the game so it was not a limited resource. Crew slots didn’t become a problem until they started adding new crew but did not add any way to get new slots. Additional crew slots turned into an afterthought. It was quite some time before they added a way in the game to get additional crew slots. It wasn’t some grand plan, they just created a problem accidentally and then realized they could monetize their way out of it.
I would have no problem whatsoever with them lifting the crew slot limit completely and giving everyone unlimited slots. This is coming from someone who has purchased slots. I currently have 375 crew slots so I have spent a significant amount of money on those, not to mention what I spent on all the crew to fill those slots.
It wouldn’t bother me at all for them to lift the restriction even though I spent a small fortune on slots. Why? Because I got the benefit of it for a long time where others didn’t and if it keeps people happy, it improves the longevity of the game.
IMO the vault should allow you to store any FE crew (regardless of stars) or L1 crew (and you can send unfinished crew to the vault but they reset to L1).
The number of slots should limit the amount of different crew you can use/work on levelling over a given time period (2 weeks? A month?).
This.
DB have created a bottleneck in the wrong place. The game is about collecting crew, and using them. Currently most of my crew go straight in the vault as soon as I FFFE them, to make room for the next crew.
I don't buy packs, there is no point when I don't have crew slots to put them in. Packs are where I guess DB makes a lot of money. If people are not buying packs because they don't have slots, then DB is losing money.
Every time DB mail us a 1/5*, they are taking a crew slot from us.
What a strange concept. Stop collecting cards in a card collecting game.
I have played many games with limited resources like crew slots or equipment. Most of them I manage the resources, getting rid of what I need least. Most of them games are not centred around the crew slots or equipment.
This game is centred around crew and crew slots. Every week we have an event where I gain 1-3 new crew. I probably average 10 new crew a month. If I use all the dil from my monthly card, I can only keep five of them. I am reluctant to spend money with the situation like this.
I got 4/4 Niners Rom six weeks ago, I started levelling him for the event, he will be immortalised tonight, and on Monday he will be straight in the freezer. That is not how a game like this should work.
So I make the count 72 to have decent coverage to play the game then of course if it is a collecting game so there needs to be slots for that oh wait VIP 0 oh dear. Quite frankly I would feel sorry for people joining now. I started in October and still feel the pain of slots on occasion. It was one of the reasons I was in two minds about them doing a portal update. The plus side is unquestionable but the downside to it was there was more bloated 1/4 voyage drops for newer players. Sure ok I can airlock a couple no problem but every time I do I am harming the chances of fully fusing any purple, let alone the ones I really like.
If there was really a technical problem with crew slots I have two main questions for you:
Why would DB do slot sales potentially putting the performance of the game at risk from a sudden influx of more players having more slots?
Why in the VIP tiers is there a huge jump in crew slots every 2 VIP tiers, instead of a more gradual, safer slot increase each VIP tier?
And 3rdly the more obvious questions of why would they release so many new cards and new features knowing this problem still persists?