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All The Complaining About Crew Slots Is Getting Tiresome

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  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    I am beginning to come around to the idea that the only way to get them to give us the game we want is to stop paying for the game we have.

    And even then you may not get it. DB is under no obligation to give you the game you want. Fortunately, you're also under no obligation to play the game they've given you.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Dralix wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    I am beginning to come around to the idea that the only way to get them to give us the game we want is to stop paying for the game we have.

    And even then you may not get it. DB is under no obligation to give you the game you want. Fortunately, you're also under no obligation to play the game they've given you.

    Of course, but there is a power assymetry which you have highlighted and we should seek to address that. No one is under any obligation to do anything, but you can create a situation where the other party is cutting off their nose to spite their face. (which happens, humans aren't always rational)

    Essentially we have to force them into a situation where our incentives are aligned. At the moment they do not seem to be. You may relish this (you often make these sort of comments), but many of the rest of us would like to change the equation.

    DB want to take our money and give us as little as possible in return, I say we play the game and give them as little as possible in return. No need to walk away or stop playing, we can consume their resources and try to play the game their way.


  • Dark MatterDark Matter ✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    Of course, but there is a power assymetry which you have highlighted and we should seek to address that.

    Of course DB holds the power. This isn't a democracy or equal partnership. Players can offer feedback, but at the end of the day, DB will make the decisions, and some decisions won't sit well with some players.

    This particular decision does not sit well with huge majority of players and is illogical from every possible point of view. It would be much better for DB and for all players not to put crew slots behind purchase wall. :-)
  • DraftedMcCoyDraftedMcCoy ✭✭✭✭
    Ive had a chance to vault of a lot of my characters that I dont ever use/need, even more since easily powerful characters, victorian pulaski/mintakan troi have come out.

    Ive got about 8-9 open crew slots and counting as Im going and continuing to vault
  • Educated_BeastEducated_Beast ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    They could at least on every mega-event give one free slot to cover the legendary crew. Like DE(Digital Extremes) do in Warframe, every time you get an event weapon you get a free weapon slot to make the reward feels a reward and not a burden.

    More free slots as account perks would make the game more attractive to new players that would lead to more incoming revenue.

    Giving things for free when doing right are ways to make your product more appealing.

    I play Warframe to. Other than having a "D" in the company name, DB versus DE, they having absolutely nothing in common. DE has spoiled me on video game developers. They are definitely top notch in the industry. DB I comparison is the dark alley prostituite...

    DB uses every psychological trick in the book to get people who just like Star trek to spend to much money. $4 a month is ok, some people are spending thousands totally addicted and unhealthy. I am not exaggerating, this is a gambling game and those people have gambling addictions that DB exploits. You really should seek help if your spending hundreds of dollars weekly on phone apps.

    Basically everything here and more is included in STT:
    https://levelskip.com/misc/Skinners-Box-and-Video-Games
  • They could at least on every mega-event give one free slot to cover the legendary crew. Like DE(Digital Extremes) do in Warframe, every time you get an event weapon you get a free weapon slot to make the reward feels a reward and not a burden.

    More free slots as account perks would make the game more attractive to new players that would lead to more incoming revenue.

    Giving things for free when doing right are ways to make your product more appealing.

    I play Warframe to. Other than having a "D" in the company name, DB versus DE, they having absolutely nothing in common. DE has spoiled me on video game developers. They are definitely top notch in the industry. DB I comparison is the dark alley prostituite...

    DB uses every psychological trick in the book to get people who just like Star trek to spend to much money. $4 a month is ok, some people are spending thousands totally addicted and unhealthy. I am not exaggerating, this is a gambling game and those people have gambling addictions that DB exploits. You really should seek help if your spending hundreds of dollars weekly on phone apps.

    Basically everything here and more is included in STT:
    https://levelskip.com/misc/Skinners-Box-and-Video-Games

    It is addictive and gambling.
    Most people know and don’t want to admit it or don’t realize it. Gamblers/Addicts never admits they are ones. And thus they are good source of money since they cannot control the urge
  • IrialIrial ✭✭✭✭
    You lost the argument right there.
    The people who complain about the people that want more crew slots puzzle me. It’s like they know the other person is not enjoying the limitation so they get joy out of the other player’s misery. It’s like they have the motto “I’m not happy unless you’re not happy”

    I believe in patience. I make no claims to actually always being as patient as I think I should be in my life, but I think when a person is truly patient, this is a blessing. I decided to let the dust settle on this thread before deciding whether I would post a follow-up comment, after having read everyone else’s thoughts. I was tempted to just move on and forget about this topic, but for whatever reason I decided I would share some additional thoughts – I honestly don’t know whether this was my best option.

    I have chosen to frame my feedback around the two quotes above from @Althea Biermont , one of which is her very first sentence to me in this thread, and the other is an entire posting she made in another thread. To @Althea Biermont I would like to individually say I am not doing this to pick on you, or because I have any type of beef with you. On the contrary, I have appreciated many of your contributions within these forums, and chose your writings not only because I think they will help me with what I would like to say, but even more so because of the level of respect I have for you. I hope you will receive this in the positive way it is intended, but if after reading my posting it in any way comes across as being negative to, or towards, you, then I will ask in advance for your forgiveness.

    To say I lost an argument I think presupposes I was trying to win one. My original post communicated my view/thoughts/opinion on a subject. I talked about how I see Crew Slots within the game. I shared my thoughts about how I think limited resources should be confronted when playing a game. I stated how I personally do not think endless complaining would be of benefit to me. I did all this to explain why I felt that “All The Complaining About Crew Slots Is Getting Tiresome”. If there are those who think that a person explaining their feelings is making an argument that they are trying to win versus other players, fair enough, but I do not see it like this, and hopefully we can minimally 'agree to disagree' about this.

    And here we get to what may be the primary message I would like to share now. I believe that differences of opinion are good. I think it is good that people do not all think the same way, or the same thoughts. I believe that if everyone thought like me, and always agreed with me, then the world would be a much worse place. I believe that diversity of thought is so important, that if someone actively pursues its suppression, they are in fact dangerous. I do not post on these forums expecting everyone to agree with all that I say, but instead often I try to offer ‘food for thought’, in the hope it might be helpful to someone who reads it.

    There seem to be some players who feel they had a “gotcha” moment with me, because I was mistaken about the nature of Crew Slots on Day 1 of STT – if this makes you think everything I wrote was invalid, that is your choice; for the rest, I will provide some more context. I started playing the game on 1 August 2016. As of that date, a new player started out with 25 free Crew Slots (and could add 10 more with Credits). The regular tasks already in the game then requiring Crew were:
    - the Arena
    - Monday to Friday Cadet Challenges (i.e., requiring 2* Crew)
    - Shuttle/Faction Missions
    - Away and Space Missions
    In the 21+ months since I started playing, DB has incrementally bumped up the number of free Crew Slots by a total of 40, to where now a new player starts with 65 (and can get to 75 with Credits). The game tasks requiring Crew added to the game over this time period have been:
    - weekend Cadet Challenges (i.e., requiring 3* Crew, where there is some potential to overlap with Arena Crew)
    - The Gauntlet (where there is potential to overlap with all other parts of the game, as Crew assigned to Gauntlets are free to be used everywhere else at the same time)
    - Voyages
    Perhaps some players are struggling with this, but I can easily accomplish these 3 additional tasks in a manner that I consider to be successful with fewer than 40 Crew. Therefore in my view, Crew Slots were a greater limitation for a new player when I started than they are today.
    Regardless of the scope of how limiting Crew Slots were when I started, or are today, they have always existed for me - that is, the only version of the game I have known has always had Crew Slots be a limited resource. But even if your starting to play the game predates this limitation, it does not change the fact that for (at least) its 21 most current months, the game has had Crew Slots as one of its features.

    As I noted in my original post, some players have mitigated the challenge of limited Crew Slots by spending real money to purchase more of them. I read in another thread were people made derisive comments about someone for having spent money on the game. It would probably not be consistent with the community guidelines for me to bluntly state how I feel about this. Therefore instead I will just say the following: in my opinion, the only thing we should be saying to the players who spend real money on this game is a big THANK YOU! The players who spend substantial amounts of real money on the game are the ones who make it possible for everyone to be able to enjoy playing the game. And as I noted before, I think these players deserve to have an advantage within the game over others.

    In summary, even if Crew Slots were introduced after Day 1, and even if you think they were introduced for nefarious reasons, none of this changes that they have been a limited resource within the game for more than 21 months now. The early history of the game does not change its most recent history, where we have this limited resource requiring our management.

    Regarding my alleged motto being, “I’m not happy unless you’re not happy”, I will begin by respectfully saying none of you know when or why I am happy. Further I do not know when my fellow players are truly happy. Regarding all of the different communications that have occurred around players wanting more Crew Slots, here are my views:

    If someone respectfully asks DB to give us all 5 more free Crew Slots, that’s fine with me – I will find a use for them when they are given out.

    If someone respectfully asks DB to run another 50% off Crew Slots Sale, that’s fine with me – I will take advantage of it when it is runs.

    If someone goes to the ‘Make It So!’ forum, and respectfully asks the game to be changed to eliminate the Crew Slots resource limitation, while I will disagree with the suggestion (due to some players having already spent money to acquire them), it will not be something that draws my attention in any type of meaningful negative way.

    But none of the above are why I started this thread. Instead it was because when I got onto the forums I saw numerous comments which I would summarily describe as being nothing more than ‘complaining for the sake of complaining’. Now let me clarify that, just because I found many comments to be this way, it does not mean I do not respect the freedom of others to make them. If there are players who want to complain, and complain, and keep on complaining, from my perspective they are free to do so. Possibly in fact, some of them might have a personality where they are only happy when they are complaining about something. I will continue to respect their freedom to endlessly whine and complain, regardless of whether they are willing to be understanding of my stating I find all this complaining to be “tiresome”.
  • I'm not sure 3500 Dil for crew slots is accurate. I thought it maxed at 3k.
  • I searched through my thread on this and here are the numbers someone else posted with some formatting for easy consumption:

    Slots. Dil cost. Total Dil cost.
    75. 0. 0.
    80. 350. 350.
    85. 700. 1050.
    90. 1050. 2100.
    95. 1750. 3850.
    100. 2450. 6300.
    105. 3000. 9300.

    So buying a single monthly pack will get you to a little better than 90 total crew slots. That's $5. 2 months of it will get you to nearly 100. But buying 2 monthly packs should get you to vip4, yes? So that's 20 more slots. 120 total slots for about $10.
  • SST - 9of7SST - 9of7 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    While I feel the pain of crew slots (currently at 57 5* - 2 immortal mostly 1/5s /53 4* - 5 immortal /6 3* - 3 immortal / 4 2* - 4 immortal --> 120 crew slots) I understand DB. Without crew limitation there would be nothing to encourage any spending.
    Even with close to 0 flexibility in bringing out crew for events I can manage top 1k easily. Ranking higher would not yield additional rewards anyway with current structure...
    My voyages reach 8hrs without a refill for more and more skill combinations.
    Gauntlet is 95% ENG anyway that my team keyless,sulan,gangster Spock,Locutus and Daystrom (hopefully caretaker soon) perform as well as a more optimized and balanced, trait oriented team.
    I can do all cadet challenges I want to and stay in top 1% of arena constantly.
    Thanks to voyages I can slowly immortalise all my 4*.

    If I didn't have the crew slot pressure, where would my need to spend money?
    I would enjoy the game more, surely. And I would not airlock 1/5s from events for 550 honor that I snatched away from others that actually wanted that crew... but I see why DB sees are major financial risk in giving out too many slots for free..
  • Althea BiermontAlthea Biermont ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not sure 3500 Dil for crew slots is accurate. I thought it maxed at 3k.

    It used to cap at 3500 dilithium. They dropped it to 3000 when they added a big group of slots for sale

  • JeanLucKirkJeanLucKirk ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Irial wrote: »
    The players who spend substantial amounts of real money on the game are the ones who make it possible for everyone to be able to enjoy playing the game. And as I noted before, I think these players deserve to have an advantage within the game over others.

    Yeah, but as seen time and time and time again those <snip> don´t even realize that part. They would like to have certain crew members. They don´t. Others do. And that thought drives them nuts, fills them with "jealousy". Which is so very silly. Cause in all kinds of freemium games or in everything really the same "rule" applies:

    If you invest more, you get/have more.

    That aside:

    Each and everyone of us could hit a bad financial patch or only has a tight budget for entertainment. That is human, that is life.

    Unnecessary comment removed. ˜Shan


  • All the complaining about complaining about crew slots is getting tiresome.
  • It’s really simple if you’re tired of reading about it.

    Don’t read threads about crew slots.
    239 Immortalized
    Gametag: ECH
  • [STJ] Wendell[STJ] Wendell ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    You must not have read the hundreds of comments on the crew slot request post. There have been lots of excellent Ideas that don’t involve giving away slots or “whining”. I also find this thread somewhat offensive. You may as well have just said Wendell your post irritates me. Well I am not sorry for being an advocate for something I believe is in desperate need for change. I would certainly not create threads whining about other threads at least.
    STAR TREK JUNKIES
  • al103al103 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    So buying a single monthly pack will get you to a little better than 90 total crew slots. That's $5. 2 months of it will get you to nearly 100. But buying 2 monthly packs should get you to vip4, yes? So that's 20 more slots. 120 total slots for about $10.
    Vip2 only. Vip is money, not dil. So 150 for each 5$.

    As for about "but free slots are fine for doing missions" - for majority of players this game is NOT about doing missions (it gets repetitive and VEEERY quickly), it's about either winning event or collecting crew. And if winning events do not require that many slots, collecting crew do and freezer is not very helpful in that regard as with increase of crew numbers it becomes very hard to collect crew without paying money. I have about 80 slots of incomplete crew, 70 of them 4* ones and I still to had to airlock 5 different purples I don't have that I got in Voyage in just two days... then not to see a single purple from Voyages for a week despite hitting 8h half of the time. It's very grating. And not just for me who is mostly monthly card player on vip7, but for people who are on Vip14 with their spending.

    It also ruins winning events fun for people that want both. I consciously stay of top 1000 3/4 of the time now because I can't afford to waste another slot on 1/5 gold and I don't want to airlock them. Some airlock. And both of the options are ruining fun as if you are not big whale (for whom card worth is nothing as they always can buy more packs so it's about bragging rights) not getting any reward from your win makes win itself a bit stale as prize turn out to be fake.
  • Selene 7Selene 7 ✭✭✭✭
    IMO, there's undeniably a point in the game where the crew slot issue becomes annoying, and that's when you're "new-ish", at the point where you're starting to assemble a decent 4* crew. The problem is that there are so many 4* characters that FF any is very difficult as RNG is more likely to give you crew you don't have. Ironically, at this point virtually any FF 4* would be a great addition, so it doesn't even matter that much who you get, as long as you can get to FF. You thus need to airlock and hope for the best, i.e. that you will get more stars for the characters you decided to save. Note that this problem is worse the later you started playing the game, because there are many more 4* characters now.
This discussion has been closed.