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Gauntlet - please explain if I'm missing something

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  • JhamelJhamel ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem is: Even with better bonus stats from collections and starbases, it's still 50-50 basically. And the chance of losing a mirror match (even if your stats are like 5% or even 10% higher) is about three out of four losses.
    "Everything about the Jem'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris (ST-DS9 Episode 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar")
  • RNG, hahaha.

    Careful, @Daivahataka, asking things about the all perfect all fair Gauntlet got me blocked by DB and the STT twitter profiles and the 'privilege' to post on their facebook page.

    And as always, the gauntlet turn rare into common.

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    tdnlryfdr4wl.png

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    j9x5n8e4y768.png

    And goes on and on.

    The old forum had a thread with tests using thousands of rounds as samples and the results shown a clear bias towards the defenders and got 0 official response.

    So is useless to complain. Damn, this is a game where you pay to unlock achievements, 10 hours voyages and pretty much any ranking above 1k on events for example.

    Until they clearly demonstrate the system is fair all the actions they took to avoid or even censor questions about this matter only makes me think something is really wrong going on here.
    Too bad this game is not called 'Star Trek Battleground 2'.
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    RNG, hahaha.

    Careful, @Daivahataka, asking things about the all perfect all fair Gauntlet got me blocked by DB and the STT twitter profiles and the 'privilege' to post on their facebook page.

    And as always, the gauntlet turn rare into common.

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    tdnlryfdr4wl.png

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    j9x5n8e4y768.png

    And goes on and on.

    The old forum had a thread with tests using thousands of rounds as samples and the results shown a clear bias towards the defenders and got 0 official response.

    So is useless to complain. Damn, this is a game where you pay to unlock achievements, 10 hours voyages and pretty much any ranking above 1k on events for example.

    Until they clearly demonstrate the system is fair all the actions they took to avoid or even censor questions about this matter only makes me think something is really wrong going on here.
    Too bad this game is not called 'Star Trek Battleground 2'.

    Those two are awful examples of "rare occurrences".

    Assuming bonuses are about even, you had a 82% chance of winning Neelix vs Picard and a 62% chance of winning Neelix vs Caretaker. Far from guaranteed wins.

    FWIW, Crunch's research showed a *mild* defender bias, especially in the the rate of 25% crit rates (and nothing to do with 5% crit rates). If I remember correctly, the difference was along the line of 5% too high for the defender.

    DB didn't respond to the shuttle issue until there were specific examples of how it was bugged (AND slots) and there were significant statistics backing that up.
  • [S14] Elynduil[S14] Elynduil ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    IMHO, it would resolve a lot of complaints about the Gauntlet if they simply changed the crit rate for zero trait matches from 5% to 1%. Immediately, trait matching would become far more valuable, and annoying crits, from characters that have no business critting more than once in a blue moon, would be greatly reduced. Easy fix.
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    Elynduil wrote: »
    IMHO, it would resolve a lot of complaints about the Gauntlet if they simply changed the crit rate for zero trait matches from 5% to 1%. Immediately, trait matching would become far more valuable, and annoying crits, from characters that have no business critting more than once in a blue moon, would be greatly reduced. Easy fix.

    TBH...I think you'd get MORE complaints from a 1% crit rate than a 5%. Some people would post every single time they saw a 1% crit.
  • RaijinmeisterRaijinmeister ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    RNG, hahaha.

    Careful, @Daivahataka, asking things about the all perfect all fair Gauntlet got me blocked by DB and the STT twitter profiles and the 'privilege' to post on their facebook page.

    And as always, the gauntlet turn rare into common.

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    tdnlryfdr4wl.png

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    j9x5n8e4y768.png

    And goes on and on.

    The old forum had a thread with tests using thousands of rounds as samples and the results shown a clear bias towards the defenders and got 0 official response.

    So is useless to complain. Damn, this is a game where you pay to unlock achievements, 10 hours voyages and pretty much any ranking above 1k on events for example.

    Until they clearly demonstrate the system is fair all the actions they took to avoid or even censor questions about this matter only makes me think something is really wrong going on here.
    Too bad this game is not called 'Star Trek Battleground 2'.

    Those two are awful examples of "rare occurrences".

    Assuming bonuses are about even, you had a 82% chance of winning Neelix vs Picard and a 62% chance of winning Neelix vs Caretaker. Far from guaranteed wins.

    FWIW, Crunch's research showed a *mild* defender bias, especially in the the rate of 25% crit rates (and nothing to do with 5% crit rates). If I remember correctly, the difference was along the line of 5% too high for the defender.

    DB didn't respond to the shuttle issue until there were specific examples of how it was bugged (AND slots) and there were significant statistics backing that up.

    Awful examples that happen every single round. Is not random if it's happening often.

    And the ss's are not about me losing, Is about those nice magic crits from nowhere that keep happening all the time.

    So you are saying that they only address an issue if they are caught with the pants down?
  • Secret JourneySecret Journey ✭✭✭✭
    Think of Gauntlet like Roulette the house always wins in the end.

    And the beginning
    And the middle
    And the....oh forget it
    DB = Climbing up an endless wall...
  • @Peachtree Rex
    25% crit vs 5% crit.
    b19yv80g469u.png


    Yeah, yeah, not very scientific but 5k+ rounds later is hard to not notice.
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Peachtree Rex
    25% crit vs 5% crit.
    b19yv80g469u.png


    Yeah, yeah, not very scientific but 5k+ rounds later is hard to not notice.

    Your worst example yet. You barely had better than a coinflip to win that:

    w9nscdex8h97.png
  • jestergeniejestergenie ✭✭✭
    @Peachtree Rex
    25% crit vs 5% crit.
    b19yv80g469u.png


    Yeah, yeah, not very scientific but 5k+ rounds later is hard to not notice.

    Your worst example yet. You barely had better than a coinflip to win that:

    w9nscdex8h97.png

    I'm sorry but your argument is pretty funny. You claim that 54% is not that big of a deal and at the same time you claim that 0.71% is big enough to frequently observe two 5% crits out of three rolls.
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Peachtree Rex
    25% crit vs 5% crit.
    b19yv80g469u.png


    Yeah, yeah, not very scientific but 5k+ rounds later is hard to not notice.

    Your worst example yet. You barely had better than a coinflip to win that:

    w9nscdex8h97.png

    I'm sorry but your argument is pretty funny. You claim that 54% is not that big of a deal and at the same time you claim that 0.71% is big enough to frequently observe two 5% crits out of three rolls.

    The existence of rare events, alone, isn't proof that a system is broken. I run around 100 gauntlet rounds per day. I can expect to see a 1% even happen (on average) once per day. Sometimes there will be more, sometimes less. Sometimes, that's a 2x 5% crit. You can't cherry pick single results without also considering how many trials it took to get them.
  • jestergeniejestergenie ✭✭✭
    Yes, you are correct. Existence of rare events doesn't prove that system is broken but Raijinmeister clearly claims something else. He says that these rare events occurs more often than they should. And you know what? I played Gauntlet a little bit and there is one thing I can say for sure about it. Defender has pretty obvious advantage over attacker in many ways. For me the most irritating is opponents selection algorithm. It clearly favors defender. You lose a character and you can expect you will have to face this particular character as your opponent. My own experience shows also that if defender needs crit it will get it no matter the chance. I have no any doubt that this kind of behavior is designed, not even the slightest.
  • <TGE> Clifford<TGE> Clifford ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, you are correct. Existence of rare events doesn't prove that system is broken but Raijinmeister clearly claims something else. He says that these rare events occurs more often than they should. And you know what? I played Gauntlet a little bit and there is one thing I can say for sure about it. Defender has pretty obvious advantage over attacker in many ways. For me the most irritating is opponents selection algorithm. It clearly favors defender. You lose a character and you can expect you will have to face this particular character as your opponent. My own experience shows also that if defender needs crit it will get it no matter the chance. I have no any doubt that this kind of behavior is designed, not even the slightest.

    You said when you first joined the forums that you hadn't started playing yet and just wanted to check out the game by reading about it... it's been a week since you joined. I can now assume you have started playing.

    Exactly how much experience do you have with the gauntlet? Just curious, really.

    Probably takes a day to unlock gauntlet, and usually at that point you don't really have the crew to do much more than do suicide matches... I dunno, just wondering.
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    RNG, hahaha.

    Careful, @Daivahataka, asking things about the all perfect all fair Gauntlet got me blocked by DB and the STT twitter profiles and the 'privilege' to post on their facebook page.

    And as always, the gauntlet turn rare into common.

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    tdnlryfdr4wl.png

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    j9x5n8e4y768.png

    And goes on and on.

    The old forum had a thread with tests using thousands of rounds as samples and the results shown a clear bias towards the defenders and got 0 official response.

    So is useless to complain. Damn, this is a game where you pay to unlock achievements, 10 hours voyages and pretty much any ranking above 1k on events for example.

    Until they clearly demonstrate the system is fair all the actions they took to avoid or even censor questions about this matter only makes me think something is really wrong going on here.
    Too bad this game is not called 'Star Trek Battleground 2'.

    Those two are awful examples of "rare occurrences".

    Assuming bonuses are about even, you had a 82% chance of winning Neelix vs Picard and a 62% chance of winning Neelix vs Caretaker. Far from guaranteed wins.

    FWIW, Crunch's research showed a *mild* defender bias, especially in the the rate of 25% crit rates (and nothing to do with 5% crit rates). If I remember correctly, the difference was along the line of 5% too high for the defender.

    DB didn't respond to the shuttle issue until there were specific examples of how it was bugged (AND slots) and there were significant statistics backing that up.

    Awful examples that happen every single round. Is not random if it's happening often.

    And the ss's are not about me losing, Is about those nice magic crits from nowhere that keep happening all the time.

    So you are saying that they only address an issue if they are caught with the pants down?

    If awful examples happen every round how does anyone make any headway in the Gauntlet?

    Even if the 5% defender bias is true, people still score tonnes of points every day. Right now I fully expect to finish in the top 5 of my current gauntlet. I might get 3* Furs for my effort or I might get 5* Equipment. I might even get my first Caretaker. But this so-called "rigged" game has given me tonnes of rewards with no dilithium spent ever.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
  • jestergeniejestergenie ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Yes, you are correct. Existence of rare events doesn't prove that system is broken but Raijinmeister clearly claims something else. He says that these rare events occurs more often than they should. And you know what? I played Gauntlet a little bit and there is one thing I can say for sure about it. Defender has pretty obvious advantage over attacker in many ways. For me the most irritating is opponents selection algorithm. It clearly favors defender. You lose a character and you can expect you will have to face this particular character as your opponent. My own experience shows also that if defender needs crit it will get it no matter the chance. I have no any doubt that this kind of behavior is designed, not even the slightest.

    You said when you first joined the forums that you hadn't started playing yet and just wanted to check out the game by reading about it... it's been a week since you joined. I can now assume you have started playing.

    Exactly how much experience do you have with the gauntlet? Just curious, really.

    Probably takes a day to unlock gauntlet, and usually at that point you don't really have the crew to do much more than do suicide matches... I dunno, just wondering.

    My gauntlet experience is very little and as you noticed yourself my matches are mostly suicidal but I can still observe how crit mechanic works or how the game selects my opponents. All these observations are completely independent from my matches results.

    My mostly suicidal matches also shows one more gauntlet design flaw which is complete lack of separation new players from experienced players. What is the point to put them in the same arena? Very bad decision.

    I believe I unlocked gauntlet at level 10 and it took me far less time than one day as I remember.
  • jestergeniejestergenie ✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    RNG, hahaha.

    Careful, @Daivahataka, asking things about the all perfect all fair Gauntlet got me blocked by DB and the STT twitter profiles and the 'privilege' to post on their facebook page.

    And as always, the gauntlet turn rare into common.

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    tdnlryfdr4wl.png

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    j9x5n8e4y768.png

    And goes on and on.

    The old forum had a thread with tests using thousands of rounds as samples and the results shown a clear bias towards the defenders and got 0 official response.

    So is useless to complain. Damn, this is a game where you pay to unlock achievements, 10 hours voyages and pretty much any ranking above 1k on events for example.

    Until they clearly demonstrate the system is fair all the actions they took to avoid or even censor questions about this matter only makes me think something is really wrong going on here.
    Too bad this game is not called 'Star Trek Battleground 2'.

    Those two are awful examples of "rare occurrences".

    Assuming bonuses are about even, you had a 82% chance of winning Neelix vs Picard and a 62% chance of winning Neelix vs Caretaker. Far from guaranteed wins.

    FWIW, Crunch's research showed a *mild* defender bias, especially in the the rate of 25% crit rates (and nothing to do with 5% crit rates). If I remember correctly, the difference was along the line of 5% too high for the defender.

    DB didn't respond to the shuttle issue until there were specific examples of how it was bugged (AND slots) and there were significant statistics backing that up.

    Awful examples that happen every single round. Is not random if it's happening often.

    And the ss's are not about me losing, Is about those nice magic crits from nowhere that keep happening all the time.

    So you are saying that they only address an issue if they are caught with the pants down?

    If awful examples happen every round how does anyone make any headway in the Gauntlet?

    Even if the 5% defender bias is true, people still score tonnes of points every day.

    I suppose it's still possible to beat 3 roll 5% critter with 6 roll 65% critter. :p
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    RNG, hahaha.

    Careful, @Daivahataka, asking things about the all perfect all fair Gauntlet got me blocked by DB and the STT twitter profiles and the 'privilege' to post on their facebook page.

    And as always, the gauntlet turn rare into common.

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    tdnlryfdr4wl.png

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    j9x5n8e4y768.png

    And goes on and on.

    The old forum had a thread with tests using thousands of rounds as samples and the results shown a clear bias towards the defenders and got 0 official response.

    So is useless to complain. Damn, this is a game where you pay to unlock achievements, 10 hours voyages and pretty much any ranking above 1k on events for example.

    Until they clearly demonstrate the system is fair all the actions they took to avoid or even censor questions about this matter only makes me think something is really wrong going on here.
    Too bad this game is not called 'Star Trek Battleground 2'.

    Those two are awful examples of "rare occurrences".

    Assuming bonuses are about even, you had a 82% chance of winning Neelix vs Picard and a 62% chance of winning Neelix vs Caretaker. Far from guaranteed wins.

    FWIW, Crunch's research showed a *mild* defender bias, especially in the the rate of 25% crit rates (and nothing to do with 5% crit rates). If I remember correctly, the difference was along the line of 5% too high for the defender.

    DB didn't respond to the shuttle issue until there were specific examples of how it was bugged (AND slots) and there were significant statistics backing that up.

    Awful examples that happen every single round. Is not random if it's happening often.

    And the ss's are not about me losing, Is about those nice magic crits from nowhere that keep happening all the time.

    So you are saying that they only address an issue if they are caught with the pants down?

    If awful examples happen every round how does anyone make any headway in the Gauntlet?

    Even if the 5% defender bias is true, people still score tonnes of points every day.

    I suppose it's still possible to beat 3 roll 5% critter with 6 roll 65% critter. :p

    Yes, I've been doing that for the past 4 days. Even with 3 levels of fatigue.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
  • @Peachtree Rex
    25% crit vs 5% crit.
    b19yv80g469u.png


    Yeah, yeah, not very scientific but 5k+ rounds later is hard to not notice.

    Your worst example yet. You barely had better than a coinflip to win that:

    w9nscdex8h97.png

    Care to read what I said? I'm not talking about chances of winning. I'm talking how often low chances of a crit being scored by the defender usually, in reality, means nothing. They will crit at a much higher rate than the odds would suggest. Just like 99% success shuttles failing at a rate that you in a short given time should not be able to see.
  • RaijinmeisterRaijinmeister ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    RNG, hahaha.

    Careful, @Daivahataka, asking things about the all perfect all fair Gauntlet got me blocked by DB and the STT twitter profiles and the 'privilege' to post on their facebook page.

    And as always, the gauntlet turn rare into common.

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    tdnlryfdr4wl.png

    5% crit vs 5% crit
    j9x5n8e4y768.png

    And goes on and on.

    The old forum had a thread with tests using thousands of rounds as samples and the results shown a clear bias towards the defenders and got 0 official response.

    So is useless to complain. Damn, this is a game where you pay to unlock achievements, 10 hours voyages and pretty much any ranking above 1k on events for example.

    Until they clearly demonstrate the system is fair all the actions they took to avoid or even censor questions about this matter only makes me think something is really wrong going on here.
    Too bad this game is not called 'Star Trek Battleground 2'.

    Those two are awful examples of "rare occurrences".

    Assuming bonuses are about even, you had a 82% chance of winning Neelix vs Picard and a 62% chance of winning Neelix vs Caretaker. Far from guaranteed wins.

    FWIW, Crunch's research showed a *mild* defender bias, especially in the the rate of 25% crit rates (and nothing to do with 5% crit rates). If I remember correctly, the difference was along the line of 5% too high for the defender.

    DB didn't respond to the shuttle issue until there were specific examples of how it was bugged (AND slots) and there were significant statistics backing that up.

    Awful examples that happen every single round. Is not random if it's happening often.

    And the ss's are not about me losing, Is about those nice magic crits from nowhere that keep happening all the time.

    So you are saying that they only address an issue if they are caught with the pants down?

    If awful examples happen every round how does anyone make any headway in the Gauntlet?

    Even if the 5% defender bias is true, people still score tonnes of points every day. Right now I fully expect to finish in the top 5 of my current gauntlet. I might get 3* Furs for my effort or I might get 5* Equipment. I might even get my first Caretaker. But this so-called "rigged" game has given me tonnes of rewards with no dilithium spent ever.

    Simple, you lose just enough to spend dill to recover your crew. This is how you get lured.
  • Is not about winning/losing. It's about this happening so often.

    5% vs 5%


    r24lbafbzf8q.png

    And another miracle
    5% vs 5%
    guuzgejgw1kd.png

    Every round this things happens. As I say, if it happens often isn't random.
  • UlrikkUlrikk ✭✭
    Today's episode of gauntlet happy fun times is my fresh defensive phlox losing to a commando crusher...0/6 at 25% vs 5/6 at 65% and a 17 point victory. That .5% chance of victory is real. Not even mad, I expected it since it was for a 4* box at the end of a streak.
  • S31S31 ✭✭✭✭✭
    5 % chances in 6 round it means that it will happen once in every 20 rounds aka every third gauntlet!!!
  • Emmett KEmmett K ✭✭✭
    It's not the crits that's the issue in those pictures. Most of them are still losses if you half the crits.

    You lost before crits even factored in for a bunch of these.
  • RaijinmeisterRaijinmeister ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    S31 wrote: »
    5 % chances in 6 round it means that it will happen once in every 20 rounds aka every third gauntlet!!!

    Oh, really? Thanks for the info. You should say that to my crew. Because I would gladly share some miraculous victories with crits out of the blue IF they happened that often to me too because in more than 5k rounds I can probably count using maybe my 2 hands the number of times my crew did something like that, except when is a clear winning scenario, then they crit as if they had 90% crit.
  • UlrikkUlrikk ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Wasn't 5%, it was .15%, typo. Following that loss I lost 3 out of my next 4 matches, all due to a 5%er going 2/3. I'll still place in the top 5 like almost every gauntlet, I just don't like the dishonesty in their programming.
    S31 wrote: »
    5 % chances in 6 round it means that it will happen once in every 20 rounds aka every third gauntlet!!!

  • [10F] Belle'Anna [10F] Belle'Anna ✭✭✭✭✭
    A/ it's free to play
    B/ it can be immensely frustrating
    C/ the potential reward is awesome
    D/ you may not get the potential reward
    E/ the potential reward is great for gauntlet

    Rinse and Repeat
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Check out our website to find out more:
    https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
  • RaijinmeisterRaijinmeister ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Fresh from the oven.
    25% vs 5
    qdx5gdrdua7m.png

    5% vs 25%
    995kvsnihm2d.png

    I'm still waiting my crew does something like that on a regular basis.

    An extra entry because the gauntlet is the gift that keeps giving.
    25% vs 5%
    45nbfmxrctri.png

  • Elynduil wrote: »
    IMHO, it would resolve a lot of complaints about the Gauntlet if they simply changed the crit rate for zero trait matches from 5% to 1%. Immediately, trait matching would become far more valuable, and annoying crits, from characters that have no business critting more than once in a blue moon, would be greatly reduced. Easy fix.
    Am I the only one to wonder if the best fix for Gauntlet would be to just go all in on RNG - we pick our crew then come back in 2 days to see how the RNG picking and executing fights panned out? At least then it'd be less frustrating being asked to put some intellect into playing a system that's skewed against you. If I wanted that I'd go play blackjack.
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    Am I the only one to wonder if the best fix for Gauntlet would be to just go all in on RNG - we pick our crew then come back in 2 days to see how the RNG picking and executing fights panned out?

    I don't know about the only, but I'm pretty sure the people who regularly succeed in gauntlet would disagree.
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »
    Am I the only one to wonder if the best fix for Gauntlet would be to just go all in on RNG - we pick our crew then come back in 2 days to see how the RNG picking and executing fights panned out?

    I don't know about the only, but I'm pretty sure the people who regularly succeed in gauntlet would disagree.

    DB would also surely disagree, as part of their M.O. is to get people logging in multiple times throughout the day — the more play time, the greater the chance a user will spend in-game resources, many of which will eventually need to be replenished using real money.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
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