The Gold-Pressed Latinum Conundrum

Marko Ramius

Does some one at some point say in any Star Trek series that latinum is too complex to be replicated? The closest I can remember is someone saying that it can't be replicated because "replication doesn't overcome rarity." I feel that the the explanation should have been more along the lines that counterfeiting any kind of currency is wrong and unethical, considering that in the 24th century "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in [their] lives." (First Contact - Captain Picard) Well, other than the Ferengi I suppose, but even they would probably agree that counterfeiting is wrong considering it would upset "currency based economics." (DS9 - Quark)

Instead, with this explanation, I feel like they're saying "we would if we could, but we can't" leaving the possibility open that players could feel that we should be able to replicate Federation Credits as well. In addition, there are other pieces of equipment and components that have been used as currency in various Star Trek Episodes as a result of contact with other species (all which we are able to replicate), most notably in Quark's Bar.

Also, if Gold-Pressed Latinum is indeed a currency and should not be replicated, should we not be able to spend it as such? For example, especially in the Ferengi faction stores, should be we not be able to spend our latinum to acquire Ferengi items?

Personally, I don't care if we can or cannot replicate latinum, I just think the explanation should be more clear as to the reasons why we can't replicate it. Oh, and by the way, here in the 21st century we can 3D print organs for transplant (or are darn close to it) into human bodies, but a 24th century replicator can't replicate a liquid metal?

Siblin

I don’t recall specific quotes, but it stands to reason if latinum could simply be replicated by energy conversion based on its mass, it wouldn’t be particularly valuable.

Marko Ramius

I agree with that. In many instances, rarity is what creates value. Diamonds, gold, the Mona Lisa, or a Honus Wagner baseball card all have value because of their rarity. If a replicator could flawlessly produce any of these items, it would decrease the value of the original.

I just wonder about the end-run around the more ethical question of replicating a currency. In this case, I think it's the more prominent issue regarding the replication of Gold-Pressed Latinum, rather than the more scientific issue of whether or not it is physically possible to replicate it.

Lady Gaghgagh

I don't like this if it's the case we now can't replicate the item for our crew. This game already has a ton of bottleneck issues as it is. Let's not create one more >.>

Sleeping Dragon

It seems unlikely that latinum would retain value if it could be replicated. Sure, the Federation might take an ethical stance against replicating it, but there are enough species and individuals with fewer scruples than the Federation out there that would not hesitate to print their own money if it could be done with a common replicator. And yet, nobody ever seems to be concerned that their latinum might be fake/replicated.

So that means that there must be something about latinum that makes it difficult or impossible to replicate. Replicators are known to have limits on how complex of an object can be replicated, so it's possible that latinum has some factor that makes it too complex to replicate. Alternatively, it might be technically possible to replicate, but at an extremely high energy cost that would mean it costs more to produce than it is worth.

[SJ] Admiral Aki

Lady Gaghgagh wrote: »

I don't like this if it's the case we now can't replicate the item for our crew. This game already has a ton of bottleneck issues as it is. Let's not create one more >.>

It's been like this for ages...

What I usually do it replicate the item "above" it in it's build tree. It might be an expensive replication, but it's still cheaper than using chrons to get the item to drop.

Marko Ramius

Lady Gaghgagh wrote: »

I don't like this if it's the case we now can't replicate the item for our crew. This game already has a ton of bottleneck issues as it is. Let's not create one more >.>

This has always been the case, they just changed the explanation. I only find it to be a mild inconvenience with 4* Gold-Pressed Latinum.

Sleeping Dragon wrote: »

It seems unlikely that latinum would retain value if it could be replicated. Sure, the Federation might take an ethical stance against replicating it, but there are enough species and individuals with fewer scruples than the Federation out there that would not hesitate to print their own money if it could be done with a common replicator. And yet, nobody ever seems to be concerned that their latinum might be fake/replicated.

So that means that there must be something about latinum that makes it difficult or impossible to replicate. Replicators are known to have limits on how complex of an object can be replicated, so it's possible that latinum has some factor that makes it too complex to replicate. Alternatively, it might be technically possible to replicate, but at an extremely high energy cost that would mean it costs more to produce than it is worth.

This explanation makes the scientific explanation more prominent than the ethical one, which allows me to believe that the explanation given was ok now. I guess I never noticed that no one ever questioned if it is genuine or not.

Pallidyne

The Episode is Who Mourns for Morn, and I THINK it is Quark who makes the statement that Latinum cannot be replicated.

Worth a watch, rewatch, etc as it has a pretty good standalone main plot.

Dralix

The reason latinum is used as currency is because it can't be replicated. It has nothing to do with ethics. There are plenty of unethical people in the Star Trek universe. If it could have been replicated, it would have been.

This is blowing a long requested and overdue text change entirely out of proportion.

Yateball

Damn, I wish I had your amount of replicator rations... I'm ALWAYS out

Dirk Gunderson

Did nobody read to the bottom of the last announcement?

Marko Ramius

@Dirk Gunderson The announcement is the reason I went to see the change and then posted.

@Dralix I know I'm being a little wild by bring all of this up, but I just wanted to see the opinions of others. I'm not complaining about anything, just looking for opinions and information. That being said, I can't see how a thread dedicated to those things is "blowing it way out of proportion."

Dralix

If you're arguing the in universe question of whether latinum can't be replicated or just isn't, then have at it. Although if so, this belongs in Strange New Worlds.

I took it as a complaint about the in game text.

Marko Ramius

Yateball wrote: »

Damn, I wish I had your amount of replicator rations... I'm ALWAYS out

Voyages - If you run them, they will come.

GhostStalker

I'm fairly certain I've replicated larger items that CONTAINED latinum of various levels as an ingredient. Am I wrong?

Yateball

Marko Ramius wrote: »

Yateball wrote: »

Damn, I wish I had your amount of replicator rations... I'm ALWAYS out

Voyages - If you run them, they will come.

Oh I run constant voyages, and use every ration I get quickly
Like right now trying to FE Leonardo DaVinci i have no choice but to replicate all of these stethoscopes

Skizzy • VIP0 • §ë

GhostStalker wrote: »

I'm fairly certain I've replicated larger items that CONTAINED latinum of various levels as an ingredient. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong.

For Cardassia

1st - this isn't new, you haven't been able to replicate latinum in-game forever

2nd - Yes, it has been stated that latinum cannot be replicated, which is why it retains value universally (if it was accepted as currency, and could be replicated, the Ferengi would replicate it all over the place), and is considered actually rare. It is a very established part of the Star Trek lore which is why they don't let you replicate it.

Basically, this is nothing new, and it is canon, so please chill.

[S14] Elynduil

Marko Ramius wrote: »

Diamonds, gold, the Mona Lisa, or a Honus Wagner baseball card all have value because of their rarity. If a replicator could flawlessly produce any of these items, it would decrease the value of the original.

Well, apparently, gold can be replicated, which is why the precious latinum is encased in "worthless" gold.

The choice of this particular metal as casing is probably based on it's non-reactive properties as opposed to it's scarcity. It's a bit soft, but perhaps softness is preferred over brittleness when it comes to encasing latinum. Platinum is another almost-completely noble metal (that is harder than gold) that could have been considered, except it is a catalyst for some chemical reactions. That it was not chosen could be a clue to the fact that latinum might be highly reactive and chemically unstable - which would almost certainly interfere with replication.

GhostStalker

If I were a Ferengi I would just hack a replicator and replicate the **tsk tsk** out of some bricks of latinum.

DScottHewitt

Marko Ramius wrote: »

Does some one at some point say in any Star Trek series that latinum is too complex to be replicated? The closest I can remember is someone saying that it can't be replicated because "replication doesn't overcome rarity." I feel that the the explanation should have been more along the lines that counterfeiting any kind of currency is wrong and unethical, considering that in the 24th century "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in [their] lives." (First Contact - Captain Picard) Well, other than the Ferengi I suppose, but even they would probably agree that counterfeiting is wrong considering it would upset "currency based economics." (DS9 - Quark)

Instead, with this explanation, I feel like they're saying "we would if we could, but we can't" leaving the possibility open that players could feel that we should be able to replicate Federation Credits as well. In addition, there are other pieces of equipment and components that have been used as currency in various Star Trek Episodes as a result of contact with other species (all which we are able to replicate), most notably in Quark's Bar.

Also, if Gold-Pressed Latinum is indeed a currency and should not be replicated, should we not be able to spend it as such? For example, especially in the Ferengi faction stores, should be we not be able to spend our latinum to acquire Ferengi items?

Personally, I don't care if we can or cannot replicate latinum, I just think the explanation should be more clear as to the reasons why we can't replicate it. Oh, and by the way, here in the 21st century we can 3D print organs for transplant (or are darn close to it) into human bodies, but a 24th century replicator can't replicate a liquid metal?

Yeah. Latinum cannot be Replicated. That is why it is so valuable......

Travis S McClain

Yateball wrote: »

Damn, I wish I had your amount of replicator rations... I'm ALWAYS out

I'd give you some of mine if I could, @Yateball.

Lady Gaghgagh

I'm rolling in replicator rations too from voyages.

Marko Ramius

@Travis S McClain Can you even get 0* rations anymore? Or do you just have a part of STT history there?

[BL] Q

Lady Gaghgagh wrote: »

I don't like this if it's the case we now can't replicate the item for our crew. This game already has a ton of bottleneck issues as it is. Let's not create one more >.>

You could never replicate latinum to begin with in the game

Ivanstone

Replicator rations are worth less than gold.


Speaking of gold, I did finally manage to use up all of my 5* trainers. Next project, throw all of my trainers into the replicator and then my schematics. And spices. And incense. And my 632 3* Furs which DB seems to never want to use in any equipment.

Data1001

You guys must not do very much replicating. Though I did have a glut of them myself before I went crazy trying to fully equip every remaining crew member. That did a number on them... and on my schematics... and on my starbase components.

WaldoMag

@Data1001
You did not mention experience trainers. That is another source for replicator fuel.

I have been forced to use Dynamic Officer Training since I leveled everybody. I am holding a couple crew back on leveling for daily achievements.

I keep having 32767 of them I guess from cadet and event rewards. But I seem to be getting them elsewhere. I did get a double your crew on EV Suit Archer. Maybe that was a source of them. But thinking about it I guess they must be mainly coming from events.

Edit: Sorry I keep thinking they are the gold replicator Rations. So I was not thinking I get them from voyages. Of course I am getting the Dynamic Officer Traing from Voyages. Doh!

Data1001

WaldoMag wrote: »

Data1001
You did not mention experience trainers. That is another source for replicator fuel.

Indeed, I did use those, as well. I had all but the 5* trainers maxed out, but now they're all less than 10k.

WaldoMag

@Data1001
You have done some replicating.

Marko Ramius

I try to give all of my stuff a chance to be useful. Sometimes I use replicator rations and then I see the 0* alcohols in the corner giving me the puppy dog eyes, and I'm like "oh all right. in you go!"