In all likelihood, Augments just age more slowly. The movie is about 10 years after the TOS episode? And "Young" Khan wasn't that young to start with, so... he probably just stopped dyeing his hair. So now he looks fifty instead of forty-five, while the young guys still look like young guys.
I looked around it is 15 years between the time Khan is exiled on to Ceti Alpha V.
I think we conclude that maybe there are no children. Looking it up the planet was turned into the desert like planet shortly after they were exiled. So with the hostile environment, I guess we can figure no children.🤔
It was mentioned that eugenics augments have a longer life span. Maybe Kahn is the oldest to start off with.
Also read that only 20 of his followers survived on Ceti Alpha.
Only 72 of the 84 survived on the Botany Bay.
So 51 of the augments were lost on Ceti Alpha V with the cataclysm set off by the explosion of the sixth planet.
I believe the intended example of Uplift in H.G.Wells would be Dr.Moreau, though his creations were surgical and not able to pass their modifications to future generations.
If you'll excuse the problematic terminology, the idea seems to be that "uplift" is when a superior being or race tries to raise a lower species closer to their level, while "augment" is when a species tries to raise itself.
My main problem with the Augments in Star Trek is that I never got the sense that Khan was augmented in the first place. He was genetically engineered, and the word "eugenics" was involved. (Which would make him an "augment" by the definition above, but not in a sense where phrases like "augment virus" make any sense.)
It would create problems for the timeline if Khan was just the product of selective breeding, but however they gathered the genes together, Khan has the dna he was born with.
Even that causes timeline issues, as Khan was born roughly around when the episode aired, but nobody had the tech to produce him.
Even that causes timeline issues, as Khan was born roughly around when the episode aired, but nobody had the tech to produce him.
Well, they did, if they used the more traditional eugenics methods, which have been known since the time of Plato. And the eugenics movement in the United States had been ramping up for more than a century by that time. Of course, no dedicated selective breeding program of that scale is known of, but I think the episode was a bit more of a what-if scenario to give social commentary.
Technically arent all klingons from the Original Series time period Augments as per the Enterprise storyline?
Wasn't it just the outer colony Klingons who were test subjects?
The whole reason for all of this is there just was not a budget in TOS for Roddenberry to get the Klingons makeup the way he wanted it. He did in TNG . So this Enterprise episode explains why the Klingons looked different in TOS. I kind of wish they just would of left it to special effects to make the Klingons look the way he wanted them to look. Basically resell TOS with new special effects. Which they did do. But also change the Klingons to look the way he wanted.
The Enterprise episode in the end cured the Augmented Klingons but left them more as a Klingon Human hybrid. Not sure if they can still be called augments or not. Actually I am not sure they are a Human Klingon hybrid. Will have to rewatch episode. I think that episode is coming on in rerun. I keep saying it’s on Metv but this was their old MeToo channel which was renamed Heroes and Icons.
No matter how they do it. Enterprise’s database is available so no way Kirk would not know the difference between Klingons. Let alone Spock. The Vulcans know who the Klingons are. So all this effort to try and come up with an explanation for the TOS Klingons was a waste.
Technically arent all klingons from the Original Series time period Augments as per the Enterprise storyline?
Wasn't it just the outer colony Klingons who were test subjects?
The whole reason for all of this is there just was not a budget in TOS for Roddenberry to get the Klingons makeup the way he wanted it. He did in TNG . So this Enterprise episode explains why the Klingons looked different in TOS. I kind of wish they just would of left it to special effects to make the Klingons look the way he wanted them to look. Basically resell TOS with new special effects. Which they did do. But also change the Klingons to look the way he wanted.
The Enterprise episode in the end cured the Augmented Klingons but left them more as a Klingon Human hybrid. Not sure if they can still be called augments or not. Actually I am not sure they are a Human Klingon hybrid. Will have to rewatch episode. I think that episode is coming on in rerun. I keep saying it’s on Metv but this was their old MeToo channel which was renamed Heroes and Icons.
No matter how they do it. Enterprise’s database is available so no way Kirk would not know the difference between Klingons. Let alone Spock. The Vulcans know who the Klingons are. So all this effort to try and come up with an explanation for the TOS Klingons was a waste.
Lol to me that was most Enterprise episodes that tried to connect to something outside of the bridge.... (Ferengi, Borg, Klingon, etc.)
@Pallidyne
Your right.
There are many things that are no longer new. How would Picard not know of Borg and Ferengi.
Not worth trying to make sense of it.
I guess this is getting more off topic. To get back to the original question.
And that was whether TOS. Klingons are augments? I think not but I will need to see the Enterprise episode to see what they are.
@Pallidyne
Your right.
There are many things that are no longer new. How would Picard not know of Borg and Ferengi.
Not worth trying to make sense of it.
I guess this is getting more off topic. To get back to the original question.
And that was whether TOS. Klingons are augments? I think not but I will need to see the Enterprise episode to see what they are.
Lol I don't try to make sense of it. I just don't watch prequels anymore (I think the Alex Cross movie was the last one of any type that I enjoyed enough to think I might watch again.)
Comments
This thread has gotten way off track, lol.
I think we conclude that maybe there are no children. Looking it up the planet was turned into the desert like planet shortly after they were exiled. So with the hostile environment, I guess we can figure no children.🤔
It was mentioned that eugenics augments have a longer life span. Maybe Kahn is the oldest to start off with.
Also read that only 20 of his followers survived on Ceti Alpha.
Only 72 of the 84 survived on the Botany Bay.
So 51 of the augments were lost on Ceti Alpha V with the cataclysm set off by the explosion of the sixth planet.
If you'll excuse the problematic terminology, the idea seems to be that "uplift" is when a superior being or race tries to raise a lower species closer to their level, while "augment" is when a species tries to raise itself.
My main problem with the Augments in Star Trek is that I never got the sense that Khan was augmented in the first place. He was genetically engineered, and the word "eugenics" was involved. (Which would make him an "augment" by the definition above, but not in a sense where phrases like "augment virus" make any sense.)
It would create problems for the timeline if Khan was just the product of selective breeding, but however they gathered the genes together, Khan has the dna he was born with.
Even that causes timeline issues, as Khan was born roughly around when the episode aired, but nobody had the tech to produce him.
Well, they did, if they used the more traditional eugenics methods, which have been known since the time of Plato. And the eugenics movement in the United States had been ramping up for more than a century by that time. Of course, no dedicated selective breeding program of that scale is known of, but I think the episode was a bit more of a what-if scenario to give social commentary.
SSR Noob
Spoiler of spoils
Wasn't it just the outer colony Klingons who were test subjects?
The whole reason for all of this is there just was not a budget in TOS for Roddenberry to get the Klingons makeup the way he wanted it. He did in TNG . So this Enterprise episode explains why the Klingons looked different in TOS. I kind of wish they just would of left it to special effects to make the Klingons look the way he wanted them to look. Basically resell TOS with new special effects. Which they did do. But also change the Klingons to look the way he wanted.
The Enterprise episode in the end cured the Augmented Klingons but left them more as a Klingon Human hybrid. Not sure if they can still be called augments or not. Actually I am not sure they are a Human Klingon hybrid. Will have to rewatch episode. I think that episode is coming on in rerun. I keep saying it’s on Metv but this was their old MeToo channel which was renamed Heroes and Icons.
No matter how they do it. Enterprise’s database is available so no way Kirk would not know the difference between Klingons. Let alone Spock. The Vulcans know who the Klingons are. So all this effort to try and come up with an explanation for the TOS Klingons was a waste.
Lol to me that was most Enterprise episodes that tried to connect to something outside of the bridge.... (Ferengi, Borg, Klingon, etc.)
Your right.
There are many things that are no longer new. How would Picard not know of Borg and Ferengi.
Not worth trying to make sense of it.
I guess this is getting more off topic. To get back to the original question.
And that was whether TOS. Klingons are augments? I think not but I will need to see the Enterprise episode to see what they are.
Lol I don't try to make sense of it. I just don't watch prequels anymore