It would have been nice to have heard these details, specifically about removing ‘free’ purchases, from DB rather than from other players. You could even have use anonymised examples to help reassure. Or just simply put in your ingame message: “We are looking to undo damage, as far as is reasonably possibly, in terms of extra dil and any assets earned from this issue”.
For the last few days, there are some that were (within good reason) left to fear that this wouldn’t be handled very well. The only snippets we got were that you were actively changing peoples dil balances, but no news of any adjustments on ‘gear’ acquired. We gave you time to address it.
Once it was clear in the threads in engineering that DB were drawing a line, a few decided to quit and others have probably already gone looking for refunds.
Contacting affected players isn’t good enough as you’ve failed to understand who feels affected. As someone who wasn’t around when the pack was released, I didn’t use it, but nevertheless I am still affected in that it appeared to me x amount of players were getting to keep crew, slots, items etc AND being rewarded 350 dil for the inconvenience.
I feel DB have totally failed to understand the different perspectives players may have on this whole issue and overall the official responses come across very adversarial. That’s always been a big problem in my opinion.
@Shan I'm in agreement that communication on this issue, at least from DB, fell miles short of satisfactory. We had at least one early report of a player who had excess dilithium removed, but got to keep a bunch of characters he'd acquired with said dilithium. That brought up a lot of questions like:
Are players getting to keep characters they purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep shuttles purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep crew slots purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep honor acquired from tainted dilithium?
What if they acquired honor and used it to cite up characters? Are you unfusing said characters?
Are players getting their VIP levels adjusted to what they should be? Or are there now 200 more VIP 14s out there getting all the perks that I paid an obscene amount of money to get?
These are the main concerns I had. And what, 6 days later, you still haven't answered these basic questions that I'm guessing a LOT of people here have been waiting for. That is just a fail on so many levels. The fact that all the threads about this issue kept being closed only added insult to injury. Stop closing threads because players are mad. They are right to be angry. You guys messed up. Massively. And in true DB fashion, you compounded your failures by not being forthright about the steps you intended to take to remedy the situation. It's really hard to fathom that you guys have learned nothing from the massive mistakes that have been made since I've been playing, but from the outside looking in, that is exactly what it seems like.
This was no doubt a major blunder, but I don't think a lot of people realize just how much work it will take to try to make things right. Even a few well-respected and honest players — who surely meant no harm, but were admittedly being a bit naughty — ended up spending some of the dilithium they got from this, knowing it would be taken away, and confessing that they were just having a bit of fun; but in doing so, that bit of fun may have caused extra work for the DB employee(s) who are trying to straighten it out. And there are likely a significant number of others with far less virtuous intentions who were trying to get away with it by spending as much as possible on as many things as possible.
A simple roll-back, then, would never work. I can't even imagine the headache involved in trying to rectify the situation for each individual player who did anything more than just acquire the dilithium and leave it be. I wouldn't doubt this could take weeks to sort out. Be upset that it happened in the first place, yes. But I think it's unfair to pass judgement on the status of the reparations at this relatively early stage.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
@Shan I'm in agreement that communication on this issue, at least from DB, fell miles short of satisfactory. We had at least one early report of a player who had excess dilithium removed, but got to keep a bunch of characters he'd acquired with said dilithium. That brought up a lot of questions like:
Are players getting to keep characters they purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep shuttles purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep crew slots purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep honor acquired from tainted dilithium?
What if they acquired honor and used it to cite up characters? Are you unfusing said characters?
Are players getting their VIP levels adjusted to what they should be? Or are there now 200 more VIP 14s out there getting all the perks that I paid an obscene amount of money to get?
These are the main concerns I had. And what, 6 days later, you still haven't answered these basic questions that I'm guessing a LOT of people here have been waiting for. That is just a fail on so many levels. The fact that all the threads about this issue kept being closed only added insult to injury. Stop closing threads because players are mad. They are right to be angry. You guys messed up. Massively. And in true DB fashion, you compounded your failures by not being forthright about the steps you intended to take to remedy the situation. It's really hard to fathom that you guys have learned nothing from the massive mistakes that have been made since I've been playing, but from the outside looking in, that is exactly what it seems like.
So...maybe you should go and read the itemized receipt Frank posted up a few posts. It is getting handled.
DB doesnt owe you a response to how they are individually are responding. Their time is better spent doing the fix, not detailing it all for you.
@Shan I'm in agreement that communication on this issue, at least from DB, fell miles short of satisfactory. We had at least one early report of a player who had excess dilithium removed, but got to keep a bunch of characters he'd acquired with said dilithium. That brought up a lot of questions like:
Are players getting to keep characters they purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep shuttles purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep crew slots purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep honor acquired from tainted dilithium?
What if they acquired honor and used it to cite up characters? Are you unfusing said characters?
Are players getting their VIP levels adjusted to what they should be? Or are there now 200 more VIP 14s out there getting all the perks that I paid an obscene amount of money to get?
These are the main concerns I had. And what, 6 days later, you still haven't answered these basic questions that I'm guessing a LOT of people here have been waiting for. That is just a fail on so many levels. The fact that all the threads about this issue kept being closed only added insult to injury. Stop closing threads because players are mad. They are right to be angry. You guys messed up. Massively. And in true DB fashion, you compounded your failures by not being forthright about the steps you intended to take to remedy the situation. It's really hard to fathom that you guys have learned nothing from the massive mistakes that have been made since I've been playing, but from the outside looking in, that is exactly what it seems like.
So...maybe you should go and read the itemized receipt Frank posted up a few posts. It is getting handled.
DB doesnt owe you a response to how they are individually are responding. Their time is better spent doing the fix, not detailing it all for you.
Frank's post doesn't address all my questions. And more importantly, I haven't given Frank enough money to pay my mortgage for 9 months. I don't think it's unreasonable for DISRUPTOR BEAM to actually address the concerns of it's paying players.
Well, I don't know what to tell you then Smiley (Yes, I know your name is Smelly, but I'm not going to call you names). DB has said and will continue to say that they aren't commenting on this any further. They haven't commented on things otherwise in the past, and that's the road ahead as well. They've told us enough, as they are busy trying to fix it, not come to the forums and field questions.
I laid out plenty, but for further help or solace, I'll address each point you laid out, either on my personal account, my better-halfs account, the 18 people in my Discord channel or subreddit that have already been contacted and are being corrected:
Are players getting to keep characters they purchased with tainted dilithium?
No. There is a complete log of how much DIL you spent, and a detailed complete log of what you spent it on. From Characters to ship schematics to boosts.
Are players getting to keep shuttles purchased with tainted dilithium?
No. Again, detailed records of purchases. If you bought shuttles 3 and or 4 with the DIL, they are going bye-bye.
Are players getting to keep crew slots purchased with tainted dilithium?
No, crew slots are removed.
Are players getting to keep honor acquired from tainted dilithium?
No. If you did like I did, and airlocked all the crew purchased, there is a detailed record of how much you airlocked and how much honor is owed. That much honor is subtracted from your total. Which could lead us to your next question:
What if they acquired honor and used it to cite up characters? Are you unfusing said characters?
Yes they are. The extra stars earned from cites are removed. If you bought cites and didn't use them, they are removed.
Are players getting their VIP levels adjusted to what they should be? Or are there now 200 more VIP 14s out there getting all the perks that I paid an obscene amount of money to get?
Yes. If you were VIP 0 before hand, and made 100 DIL portal pulls which would grant you enough VIP to become VIP 14, you will be reverted back to 0. My personal VIP total was not touched, because it's silly. Take 70,000 VIP points away from my 2 Million, and it's still 2 Million.
Am I a DB employee? No. Will you accept my answers as good enough and let the process continue? That's up to you. If you want these answers solely from DB, I've got bad news for you.
Look, I know tensions are high, and there are *a lot* of hacked off people. Every dollar you have spent is equally important and as valuable as the next person, who could have spent a 1/10th of your total. Each of us play for our own reasons and play the style of game we want, but we spend what we can - and every cent was money important to us. Don't let anyone devalue that. The other thing we spend is time, which is just as valuable.
Then there are people like the VIP0 Fleet who are rightfully hacked because they didn't take part, and the rich got richer so to speak, and the divide further grew for them to compete. But, they still march on. It's not that they can't spend - trust me - I'm in that fleet too. There are some really, really nice people (and jerks like me) who just want to play a game and don't care to infuse cash - and that's perfectly OK too!
There are players who were asleep or offline or didn't have 650 DIL to try with a week ago. They, rightfully so, view this as a disadvantage and want answers and compensation. The first thing that must happen is the *manual* rollback of each windfall account - and while unfortunate that it has to happen in that manner, at least it IS happening and NO leeway is being given. If someone tries to subvert them and make the process painful, I have no doubt it will end poorly for that captain.
As maybe an idea, and this isn't directed at you Smelly, or SoupKitchenRiker who understandably PM'd me because I was being testy in my reply - this is just to anyone - let's keep this thread as civil as possible and let DB continue to work and keep Shan's blood pressure to somewhat normal values. I invite anyone who is reading, no matter their situation, to come here and comment - ask a question - but not addressed or expecting DB to answer it - instead I and other members of the community who have been through the adjustment will gladly come forward with answers, insight or comforting words. Let's all work together and make this a bit easier instead of tense.
I'm the first person to call DB on the carpet, been doing it for two years. Wrote an open letter to the CEO. Mailed it to him. Met him, shook his hand and laughed. This game and the community mean a lot to me and to people important to my daily life - so I want to protect it and make sure the right things are being done. I'm here. Meet me halfway.
If Db could have said 1/10th of what you did Frank & Silver, then I sincerely doubt that the flames would have grown so high..
Even a couple simple answers to some simple questions could have saved everyone a lot of frustration.
Even a very short and simple message
"Everything gained as a result of the errored pack, Dilithium, credits, crew, chronitons, vip ect will be manually removed, this may take x_#weeks"
Boom done..
Simple, easy answers to help us understand.
If I'd seen that message, I would have stopped looking / participating in threads regarding this issue right off.
They have let you know what's going on. They are working with players on an individual basis to make their accounts "right".
You say you "don't need specifics", so that should be sufficient. ...unless what you ACTUALLY want is specifics. In that case, you'll have to wait for people like Frank and others to share their individual actions, because I doubt DB would want to share the details of another player's account with the public.
Nobody's contacted me. They took my dil and that was that. They asked me to contact them. Not exactly transparent. They should have contacted me and said "we're taking x dil". Nope.
As for the specifics I mentioned, there should have been a general accounting. "We're allowing you to keep the 350 extra" is nice and all, but there was no attempt to "work" with me. I'm not asking to know how much was taken from everyone. I wanted to know what was going on with me without me having to jump through more hoops. I just spent three weeks arguing with CS over several bugs I've encountered and I'm not going to go into the nightmare that was because I have an open thread already about it.
They have let you know what's going on. They are working with players on an individual basis to make their accounts "right".
You say you "don't need specifics", so that should be sufficient. ...unless what you ACTUALLY want is specifics. In that case, you'll have to wait for people like Frank and others to share their individual actions, because I doubt DB would want to share the details of another player's account with the public.
Nobody's contacted me. They took my dil and that was that. They asked me to contact them. Not exactly transparent. They should have contacted me and said "we're taking x dil". Nope.
As for the specifics I mentioned, there should have been a general accounting. "We're allowing you to keep the 350 extra" is nice and all, but there was no attempt to "work" with me. I'm not asking to know how much was taken from everyone. I wanted to know what was going on with me without me having to jump through more hoops. I just spent three weeks arguing with CS over several bugs I've encountered and I'm not going to go into the nightmare that was because I have an open thread already about it.
You were contacted by in-game mail but while it was not possible for said mail to contain specifics I agree that it should have been more clear about what to expect, how it would be communicated to you and the timetable around it.
I certainly hope that something like this will never happen again, but this is something I have brought up.
You were contacted by in-game mail but while it was not possible for said mail to contain specifics I agree that it should have been more clear about what to expect, how it would be communicated to you and the timetable around it.
I certainly hope that something like this will never happen again, but this is something I have brought up.
Amen to that. Kinda a pain that you keep having to clean up someone elses mistakes and manage the forum fall out. Any hopes for them adding the QA/pack testing steps we have been asking for after this?
I certainly hope that something like this will never happen again, but this is something I have brought up.
Let Weyoun teach you some cloning tricks. So in the case a "nightmare" like this should happen again you will relax on the beach. While your clone will clean up the mess
You were contacted by in-game mail but while it was not possible for said mail to contain specifics I agree that it should have been more clear about what to expect, how it would be communicated to you and the timetable around it.
I certainly hope that something like this will never happen again, but this is something I have brought up.
Thank you, Shan, for that concession. I really appreciate it. I also hope nothing like this happens again for many reasons, not least of which is what sounds like thousands of man hours for cleaning the mess up that can't be dedicated to other, also-important things.
Comments
@eXo | SilverRose
Thank you very much for the personal accounts, it really is reassuring to know DB are attempting to put this right properly.
@Shan
It would have been nice to have heard these details, specifically about removing ‘free’ purchases, from DB rather than from other players. You could even have use anonymised examples to help reassure. Or just simply put in your ingame message: “We are looking to undo damage, as far as is reasonably possibly, in terms of extra dil and any assets earned from this issue”.
For the last few days, there are some that were (within good reason) left to fear that this wouldn’t be handled very well. The only snippets we got were that you were actively changing peoples dil balances, but no news of any adjustments on ‘gear’ acquired. We gave you time to address it.
Once it was clear in the threads in engineering that DB were drawing a line, a few decided to quit and others have probably already gone looking for refunds.
Contacting affected players isn’t good enough as you’ve failed to understand who feels affected. As someone who wasn’t around when the pack was released, I didn’t use it, but nevertheless I am still affected in that it appeared to me x amount of players were getting to keep crew, slots, items etc AND being rewarded 350 dil for the inconvenience.
I feel DB have totally failed to understand the different perspectives players may have on this whole issue and overall the official responses come across very adversarial. That’s always been a big problem in my opinion.
Are players getting to keep characters they purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep shuttles purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep crew slots purchased with tainted dilithium?
Are players getting to keep honor acquired from tainted dilithium?
What if they acquired honor and used it to cite up characters? Are you unfusing said characters?
Are players getting their VIP levels adjusted to what they should be? Or are there now 200 more VIP 14s out there getting all the perks that I paid an obscene amount of money to get?
These are the main concerns I had. And what, 6 days later, you still haven't answered these basic questions that I'm guessing a LOT of people here have been waiting for. That is just a fail on so many levels. The fact that all the threads about this issue kept being closed only added insult to injury. Stop closing threads because players are mad. They are right to be angry. You guys messed up. Massively. And in true DB fashion, you compounded your failures by not being forthright about the steps you intended to take to remedy the situation. It's really hard to fathom that you guys have learned nothing from the massive mistakes that have been made since I've been playing, but from the outside looking in, that is exactly what it seems like.
A simple roll-back, then, would never work. I can't even imagine the headache involved in trying to rectify the situation for each individual player who did anything more than just acquire the dilithium and leave it be. I wouldn't doubt this could take weeks to sort out. Be upset that it happened in the first place, yes. But I think it's unfair to pass judgement on the status of the reparations at this relatively early stage.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
So...maybe you should go and read the itemized receipt Frank posted up a few posts. It is getting handled.
DB doesnt owe you a response to how they are individually are responding. Their time is better spent doing the fix, not detailing it all for you.
Frank's post doesn't address all my questions. And more importantly, I haven't given Frank enough money to pay my mortgage for 9 months. I don't think it's unreasonable for DISRUPTOR BEAM to actually address the concerns of it's paying players.
I laid out plenty, but for further help or solace, I'll address each point you laid out, either on my personal account, my better-halfs account, the 18 people in my Discord channel or subreddit that have already been contacted and are being corrected:
No. There is a complete log of how much DIL you spent, and a detailed complete log of what you spent it on. From Characters to ship schematics to boosts.
No. Again, detailed records of purchases. If you bought shuttles 3 and or 4 with the DIL, they are going bye-bye.
No, crew slots are removed.
No. If you did like I did, and airlocked all the crew purchased, there is a detailed record of how much you airlocked and how much honor is owed. That much honor is subtracted from your total. Which could lead us to your next question:
Yes they are. The extra stars earned from cites are removed. If you bought cites and didn't use them, they are removed.
Yes. If you were VIP 0 before hand, and made 100 DIL portal pulls which would grant you enough VIP to become VIP 14, you will be reverted back to 0. My personal VIP total was not touched, because it's silly. Take 70,000 VIP points away from my 2 Million, and it's still 2 Million.
Am I a DB employee? No. Will you accept my answers as good enough and let the process continue? That's up to you. If you want these answers solely from DB, I've got bad news for you.
Look, I know tensions are high, and there are *a lot* of hacked off people. Every dollar you have spent is equally important and as valuable as the next person, who could have spent a 1/10th of your total. Each of us play for our own reasons and play the style of game we want, but we spend what we can - and every cent was money important to us. Don't let anyone devalue that. The other thing we spend is time, which is just as valuable.
Then there are people like the VIP0 Fleet who are rightfully hacked because they didn't take part, and the rich got richer so to speak, and the divide further grew for them to compete. But, they still march on. It's not that they can't spend - trust me - I'm in that fleet too. There are some really, really nice people (and jerks like me) who just want to play a game and don't care to infuse cash - and that's perfectly OK too!
There are players who were asleep or offline or didn't have 650 DIL to try with a week ago. They, rightfully so, view this as a disadvantage and want answers and compensation. The first thing that must happen is the *manual* rollback of each windfall account - and while unfortunate that it has to happen in that manner, at least it IS happening and NO leeway is being given. If someone tries to subvert them and make the process painful, I have no doubt it will end poorly for that captain.
As maybe an idea, and this isn't directed at you Smelly, or SoupKitchenRiker who understandably PM'd me because I was being testy in my reply - this is just to anyone - let's keep this thread as civil as possible and let DB continue to work and keep Shan's blood pressure to somewhat normal values. I invite anyone who is reading, no matter their situation, to come here and comment - ask a question - but not addressed or expecting DB to answer it - instead I and other members of the community who have been through the adjustment will gladly come forward with answers, insight or comforting words. Let's all work together and make this a bit easier instead of tense.
I'm the first person to call DB on the carpet, been doing it for two years. Wrote an open letter to the CEO. Mailed it to him. Met him, shook his hand and laughed. This game and the community mean a lot to me and to people important to my daily life - so I want to protect it and make sure the right things are being done. I'm here. Meet me halfway.
Even a couple simple answers to some simple questions could have saved everyone a lot of frustration.
Even a very short and simple message
"Everything gained as a result of the errored pack, Dilithium, credits, crew, chronitons, vip ect will be manually removed, this may take x_#weeks"
Boom done..
Simple, easy answers to help us understand.
If I'd seen that message, I would have stopped looking / participating in threads regarding this issue right off.
Thank you both for the info.
Nobody's contacted me. They took my dil and that was that. They asked me to contact them. Not exactly transparent. They should have contacted me and said "we're taking x dil". Nope.
As for the specifics I mentioned, there should have been a general accounting. "We're allowing you to keep the 350 extra" is nice and all, but there was no attempt to "work" with me. I'm not asking to know how much was taken from everyone. I wanted to know what was going on with me without me having to jump through more hoops. I just spent three weeks arguing with CS over several bugs I've encountered and I'm not going to go into the nightmare that was because I have an open thread already about it.
You were contacted by in-game mail but while it was not possible for said mail to contain specifics I agree that it should have been more clear about what to expect, how it would be communicated to you and the timetable around it.
I certainly hope that something like this will never happen again, but this is something I have brought up.
Amen to that. Kinda a pain that you keep having to clean up someone elses mistakes and manage the forum fall out. Any hopes for them adding the QA/pack testing steps we have been asking for after this?
I'd happily be a beta / qa tester
(I think a lot of hands are about to go up again lol)
Let Weyoun teach you some cloning tricks. So in the case a "nightmare" like this should happen again you will relax on the beach. While your clone will clean up the mess
Thank you, Shan, for that concession. I really appreciate it. I also hope nothing like this happens again for many reasons, not least of which is what sounds like thousands of man hours for cleaning the mess up that can't be dedicated to other, also-important things.
Also Frank and SilverRose, for sharing so many details.