Question has come up many, many times. Bounty is the name given her by Kirk when it was commandeered by his command crew in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. At that point it ceased being a Klingon ship and was now a Federation vessel.
See other threads for more discussion on the topic:
Answer #2: With few expections, DB gives ships no more than three traits and Federation, Warship and Cloaking Device were descriptive enough apparently?
Answer #3: The Ship Trait Dartboard came up with those traits
Answer #4: What is the difference between a Fighter/Warship/Battlecruiser? What about Scout/Explorer? Historic/Pioneer? How can a nonsentiant spaceship be Ruthless? How many battles does a ship need to be in to be a War Veteran? How far back in time do you have to go to be Historic? How can a Holographic ship travel at warp speed? If the ship changes faction, but retains the technology of the old one, is it the same ship? What triats did the Ship of Theseus have?
Personally, I think it should be given both the Federation and Klingon traits.*ducks from in bound vegetables* Sisko was given the Bajoran trait because he became a part of their religious beliefs. He lost his human trait, just because he became a part of the Bajoran religion? No, so why shouldn't the HMS Bounty be both a Federation and Klingon ship? It was still a Klingon vessel in origin, with Klingon consoles and writing.
Since the original question has been answered satisfactorily, I'm hijacking this thread to ask a very related philosophical question (no disrespect intended @Looseye)
(I just wrote up a couple paragraphs but deleted them in anticipation of legitimate objections. I will try again)
Actually, no need to use hypothetical, let's just stick with the issue here directly: I get why this ship is considered part of the Federation fleet, but how is it not still Klingon? It was designed by Klingons, built by Klingons, and still looks identical to every other Klingon ship.
Like if you take a chunk of granite and spray paint it and use it for a doorstop, it is now ALSO a doorstop, but it is still granite.
Since the original question has been answered satisfactorily, I'm hijacking this thread to ask a very related philosophical question (no disrespect intended @Looseye)
(I just wrote up a couple paragraphs but deleted them in anticipation of legitimate objections. I will try again)
Actually, no need to use hypothetical, let's just stick with the issue here directly: I get why this ship is considered part of the Federation fleet, but how is it not still Klingon? It was designed by Klingons, built by Klingons, and still looks identical to every other Klingon ship.
Like if you take a chunk of granite and spray paint it and use it for a doorstop, it is now ALSO a doorstop, but it is still granite.
Exactly my point that I tried to state above, as the meme goes
Since the original question has been answered satisfactorily, I'm hijacking this thread to ask a very related philosophical question (no disrespect intended @Looseye)
(I just wrote up a couple paragraphs but deleted them in anticipation of legitimate objections. I will try again)
Actually, no need to use hypothetical, let's just stick with the issue here directly: I get why this ship is considered part of the Federation fleet, but how is it not still Klingon? It was designed by Klingons, built by Klingons, and still looks identical to every other Klingon ship.
Like if you take a chunk of granite and spray paint it and use it for a doorstop, it is now ALSO a doorstop, but it is still granite.
Exactly my point that I tried to state above, as the meme goes
In my defense, I think we were both typing at the same time, and your reply posted first. I had not seen it when I wrote mine *shrug*
Since the original question has been answered satisfactorily, I'm hijacking this thread to ask a very related philosophical question (no disrespect intended @Looseye)
(I just wrote up a couple paragraphs but deleted them in anticipation of legitimate objections. I will try again)
Actually, no need to use hypothetical, let's just stick with the issue here directly: I get why this ship is considered part of the Federation fleet, but how is it not still Klingon? It was designed by Klingons, built by Klingons, and still looks identical to every other Klingon ship.
Like if you take a chunk of granite and spray paint it and use it for a doorstop, it is now ALSO a doorstop, but it is still granite.
Exactly my point that I tried to state above, as the meme goes
In my defense, I think we were both typing at the same time, and your reply posted first. I had not seen it when I wrote mine *shrug*
Are you suggesting that we have a humpback whale starship with a bridge crew of 5 that shoots phasers and torpedoes from it's blowhole? (I hope everybody has that image now).
For Star Trek VI, there was supposedly a storyboard scene that showed the Bounty being disassembled in Spacedock by Starfleet Intelligence. It obviously got cut and didn’t make it into the movie. While not canon, it’s good enough reason for me to accept that the ship is only Federation in the game.
For Star Trek VI, there was supposedly a storyboard scene that showed the Bounty being disassembled in Spacedock by Starfleet Intelligence. It obviously got cut and didn’t make it into the movie. While not canon, it’s good enough reason for me to accept that the ship is only Federation in the game.
This makes me think of the ship as even more of a Klingon ship...if it is a federation ship, why would Starfleet intelligence wanna disassemble it. Cause it is a Klingon ship, not a federation one.
But in all seriousness, yeah, let's get George and Gracie into the game. Perhaps as 3* cards, with a 4* fuse in the Bounty's cargo hold. Yeah, they were "legendary" in the 23rd century, but in the 20th, they were only endangered (i.e., rare).
I asked myself the same thing, then realized it most be a "technicality". Since it was stolen, it stopped being a Klingon design......
Well...it’s still a Klingon design but is no longer politically affiliated with the Empire. It all comes back to the artificial restriction of how many traits are applied to each ship: three or four for 5* ships, three for 4* ships, two or three for 3* ships, and two for 1* and 2* ships. I’m sure this is a game balance issue, but ideally I’d like to see a little mor standardization (as with crew traits):
-manufacturer
-political affiliation (if different from manufacturer)
-role (fighter/scout/long-range explorer/warship)
-specialty (cloaking device, historic, etc.)
Technically, under these rules, the Kumari wouldn’t have Federation because it was depicted on screen in the pre-Federation time period (although I can absolutely imagine it was still in service after 2161), the Reliant would have Federation as well as Augments, Discovery would need a new Science Vessel trait, and so on.
Technically, under these rules, the Kumari wouldn’t have Federation because it was depicted on screen in the pre-Federation time period (although I can absolutely imagine it was still in service after 2161
Technically, under these rules, the Kumari wouldn’t have Federation because it was depicted on screen in the pre-Federation time period (although I can absolutely imagine it was still in service after 2161
Except it was destroyed in 2154.
Oops. It’s been a while since my last re-watch of Enterprise. In that case, Federation is 100% a wrong trait to apply to the ship...unless, of course, the assertion is that it’s the Kumari-A from somewhere between 2154 and 2161.
Technically, under these rules, the Kumari wouldn’t have Federation because it was depicted on screen in the pre-Federation time period (although I can absolutely imagine it was still in service after 2161
Except it was destroyed in 2154.
A victim of the Aenar piloted Drone, IIRC
Why was Vicki not expelled from Greendale after she literally stabbed Pierce in the face with a pencil?!?!?
So, just to be clear, this ship was built by Klingons, using Klingon parts and technology. It was stolen, and commanded by a Federation crew, and given a Federation name. This does NOT change the fact that it is still a Klingon ship. I believe a fair analogy would be to say, if someone was to steal a Volkswagen, take spray paint, and write "Ferrari" on the side of it, it's still a Volkswagen. Allow me to use another analogy for those that say it became part of the Federation fleet; Just because a mouse is in the cookie jar, doesn't make it a cookie.
So, just to be clear, this ship was built by Klingons, using Klingon parts and technology. It was stolen, and commanded by a Federation crew, and given a Federation name. This does NOT change the fact that it is still a Klingon ship. I believe a fair analogy would be to say, if someone was to steal a Volkswagen, take spray paint, and write "Ferrari" on the side of it, it's still a Volkswagen. Allow me to use another analogy for those that say it became part of the Federation fleet; Just because a mouse is in the cookie jar, doesn't make it a cookie.
So was the Swiftsure, British built and a British ship at the Battle of the Nile, a British ship at Trafalgar despite being a part of the French fleet (since it had been captured by the French in 1801)? It was always a British built ship, but it wasn't always a British flagged ship.
Comments
See other threads for more discussion on the topic:
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/147/ship-traits
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5408/h-m-s-bounty-traits
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/322/so-exactly-why-does-the-hms-bounty-not-provide-the-klingon-trait
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/3494/why-is-the-h-m-s-bounty-not-considered-a-klingon-ship-in-voyages
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/.../3041/hms-bounty-not-a-klingon-ship-in-voyages
And for good measure, a couple from the old forums:
https://forums.disruptorbeam.com/stt/viewthread/70263
https://forums.disruptorbeam.com/stt/viewthread/60557
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
Answer #2: With few expections, DB gives ships no more than three traits and Federation, Warship and Cloaking Device were descriptive enough apparently?
Answer #3: The Ship Trait Dartboard came up with those traits
Answer #4: What is the difference between a Fighter/Warship/Battlecruiser? What about Scout/Explorer? Historic/Pioneer? How can a nonsentiant spaceship be Ruthless? How many battles does a ship need to be in to be a War Veteran? How far back in time do you have to go to be Historic? How can a Holographic ship travel at warp speed? If the ship changes faction, but retains the technology of the old one, is it the same ship? What triats did the Ship of Theseus have?
(I just wrote up a couple paragraphs but deleted them in anticipation of legitimate objections. I will try again)
Actually, no need to use hypothetical, let's just stick with the issue here directly: I get why this ship is considered part of the Federation fleet, but how is it not still Klingon? It was designed by Klingons, built by Klingons, and still looks identical to every other Klingon ship.
Like if you take a chunk of granite and spray paint it and use it for a doorstop, it is now ALSO a doorstop, but it is still granite.
Exactly my point that I tried to state above, as the meme goes
In my defense, I think we were both typing at the same time, and your reply posted first. I had not seen it when I wrote mine *shrug*
Great minds......
And second question:
During most events, at the top of the scoreboard.
Well played.
But in all seriousness, yeah, let's get George and Gracie into the game. Perhaps as 3* cards, with a 4* fuse in the Bounty's cargo hold. Yeah, they were "legendary" in the 23rd century, but in the 20th, they were only endangered (i.e., rare).
I asked myself the same thing, then realized it most be a "technicality". Since it was stolen, it stopped being a Klingon design......
Well...it’s still a Klingon design but is no longer politically affiliated with the Empire. It all comes back to the artificial restriction of how many traits are applied to each ship: three or four for 5* ships, three for 4* ships, two or three for 3* ships, and two for 1* and 2* ships. I’m sure this is a game balance issue, but ideally I’d like to see a little mor standardization (as with crew traits):
-manufacturer
-political affiliation (if different from manufacturer)
-role (fighter/scout/long-range explorer/warship)
-specialty (cloaking device, historic, etc.)
Technically, under these rules, the Kumari wouldn’t have Federation because it was depicted on screen in the pre-Federation time period (although I can absolutely imagine it was still in service after 2161), the Reliant would have Federation as well as Augments, Discovery would need a new Science Vessel trait, and so on.
Except it was destroyed in 2154.
Oops. It’s been a while since my last re-watch of Enterprise. In that case, Federation is 100% a wrong trait to apply to the ship...unless, of course, the assertion is that it’s the Kumari-A from somewhere between 2154 and 2161.
And third question: where is the sound bite quote “cpt,,.. there be whales here” i think was the line. Or something Very similar.
A victim of the Aenar piloted Drone, IIRC
So was the Swiftsure, British built and a British ship at the Battle of the Nile, a British ship at Trafalgar despite being a part of the French fleet (since it had been captured by the French in 1801)? It was always a British built ship, but it wasn't always a British flagged ship.