DB is 100% within their rights to regulate conversation in forums they own. There's certainly a "can" vs "should" argument to be made, but there is nothing even close to illegal about it. No one has an unalienable right to make an internet post in someone else's chatroom/forum.
If you don't want DB to have authority on what you post, go to the STT Reddit.
Just because they can, doesn't make them any different from any totalitarian system. And right now, that's what they are.
Btw, how can censuring almost an entire language be legal? That's discrimination, that's saying that my language is a foul language.
It's legal because it's a private company regulating speech in their privately owned space. It is a totalitarian system because it's their privately owned space. They can run it however they want. It's allowable because it's a private entity and there's really nothing they can do to keep you from just walking away if they do something you don't like.
If you ran a message board, you would be well within your rights to ban, modify, censor, etc. any of the content within it.
People also have the freedom to associate with this site (or not). If you don't like how DB runs things, then I suggest you vote with your wallet, feet, and eyeballs and stop giving them ad clicks and playing their games. Nothing is (legally) compelling you to be here.
I don't have a problem with the censor. It make sense. There needs to be some modifications to it.
The biggest problems is all the players playing around and trying to figure out what words are censored. That's why you see #### everywhere.
Its on steroids and has no intelligence behind it and thus is killing actual real proper use words that are inoffensive that are close enough. Its running too tight.
At least you can now use the words "accumulate" and "neighborhood", where you couldn't before. (Was curious about the reasoning behind filtering the latter word a little while ago, and finally discovered it was because it contained the letters "HBO" -- which you still can't use on their own in STT chat, for whatever silly reason.) But as a fleetmate pointed out, "Nickelback" is still considered a dirty word by someone at DB.
You're right, they've made some refinements that might actually be beneficial. It went from annoying to another kind of annoying. It appears a few words were added to the filter as well as ones taken away.
Frankly, if they wanna tweak it, fine. Just make us part of the discussion.
The main issue folks have complained about here in the forums in general are stealth fixes, such as fixing packs while saying nothing is wrong but admitting it later. This is a small feature, but making broad changes to it which affect folks ability to interact with each other without notice diminishes if not eliminates whatever good will that can be established by open communication on what in God's blue earth they are doing.
Do we need to crowd source this and give a guide to the profanity filter in the wiki to track changes that DB makes?
DB is 100% within their rights to regulate conversation in forums they own. There's certainly a "can" vs "should" argument to be made, but there is nothing even close to illegal about it. No one has an unalienable right to make an internet post in someone else's chatroom/forum.
If you don't want DB to have authority on what you post, go to the STT Reddit.
Just because they can, doesn't make them any different from any totalitarian system. And right now, that's what they are.
Btw, how can censuring almost an entire language be legal? That's discrimination, that's saying that my language is a foul language.
It's legal because it's a private company regulating speech in their privately owned space. It is a totalitarian system because it's their privately owned space. They can run it however they want. It's allowable because it's a private entity and there's really nothing they can do to keep you from just walking away if they do something you don't like.
If you ran a message board, you would be well within your rights to ban, modify, censor, etc. any of the content within it.
People also have the freedom to associate with this site (or not). If you don't like how DB runs things, then I suggest you vote with your wallet, feet, and eyeballs and stop giving them ad clicks and playing their games. Nothing is (legally) compelling you to be here.
Technically if someone can prove that a particular language is being targeted, there could be grounds for a civil rights discrimination case based on decisions that have been made in the last decade or so. Its a stretch but in cases where it has been brought up, you don't have to support a language by interacting with it (i.e. your cashiers don't have to be multi-lingual) but you cannot deny services because they speak in your presence in a particular language. Now you'd have to find a judge wanting to make a broad broad interpretation of that precedent, but.. well it could be argued.
The rest of your statement I'm in complete agreement with as far as what folks rights and responsibilities as well as DBs responsibilities.
There should be some level of filtering in UC. (We can debate back and forth on Fleet Chat). There have been instances of parents suing companies over perceived corruption. (Couldn't find any that won, but I'm not going to camp out on Westlaw to dig a ton on this one.) It decreases DB liability. That being said,
1) It should be done transparently - changes to it should be part of release notes.
2) There should be a dialogue on tweaking it. Now part of that is on us. I think we (and I include myself here) could probably take a lesson from Frank on how to approach DB on issues like this. However, with their recent track record, it does make it damn hard.
I don't know if it is intentional, but at this moment, almost 50% of our chat is comprised of ####...
The result, romanians have problems communicating due to DB's censorship.
Funny thing: It doesn't matter anymore if it was meant to or not...It is discriminatory!
But some of it just doesn't even make sense why it would be censored. Like the word "amuse" is censored in game. I tried typing in "disamusement" one day (I know its not a word, but it is MY word). And it took me quite a few time to figure out what part was triggering the censor.
Technically if someone can prove that a particular language is being targeted, there could be grounds for a civil rights discrimination case based on decisions that have been made in the last decade or so. Its a stretch but in cases where it has been brought up, you don't have to support a language by interacting with it (i.e. your cashiers don't have to be multi-lingual) but you cannot deny services because they speak in your presence in a particular language. Now you'd have to find a judge wanting to make a broad broad interpretation of that precedent, but.. well it could be argued.
My guess is it's software run a muck and not the intentional prohibition of a specific language. Give the other (silly) examples of the censoring, there are probably benign English words within the foreign words and it's freaking out.
At any rate, I like that they're working on supporting the E-rating. Clearly, their implementation has been a bit ham-handed to say the least.
TBH haveing to swap between aps for chat , due to the now unusable chat ingame , is retarded (yes that word is censored as well , go figure). Someone is trying to out do PC Principal
I'm all in favor of trying to clean up the cesspool that UC has become. But trying to censor with bots never works well. (Just look at the great job our old forum AI was doing at spam filtering.)
What is needed, is a real live person whose job it is to monitor the room and personally message offensive posters. Then they can suspend or permanently ban those who break the rules. Like an in-game Shan.
Would anyone take such a thankless job? I think I'd rather shovel actual animal manure all day than have to play room monitor in those virtual sewers.
Hey I didn't say I wanted the job.
But as a company you've got to do what needs to be done, and there's always someone for any job at the right price. And no bot will ever be an effective censor, because it's not so much the language that's the problem, it's the content.
At least remove the censoring from fleet chat, or some of it. Today I discovered that the mere knowledge of sangria is apparently *very* offensive to our children's precious ears.
First Officer - Task Force April
Squadron Leader - [TFA] Bateson’s Bulldogs
At least remove the censoring from fleet chat, or some of it. Today I discovered that the mere knowledge of sangria is apparently *very* offensive to our children's precious ears.
I would say that is quite disamusing... But instead I would end up saying that is quite ##########
welcome to the 'murican order....where words hurt and safe places are a must!
Such a shame to make it about something that is just rhetoric from a political side. I for one do not ever use the "in game chat feature" because the Universal chat can be filled with what appears to be teenage boys spouting sexual or hateful stuff. So I can see that DB tries to put some form of regulating censoring in place to try and keep the hate/discriminatory speak to a minimum. I personally do not think it is really possible to do that but I have no problem with the effort. But to then go and have a simply reply like the above probably says more about you then about reality.
To give a simple example. I myself grew up in Europe one block away from a former NAZI concentration camp and during my work in the hospital I have, in the past, come accross multiple survivors of some of the worst camps from WWII, so I get very sad and even angry when some teenage punk uses nazi references to deliberately hurt other players that are in the universal chat or even the many times that there are pathetic sexual references to women or extremely derogatory terms in reference to gay or LGBT people... I believe this kind of speech has no place in a decent society but we might disagree on that. And just as an FYI, I am also a military veteran so I do not need "safe spaces" as you refer to, I just need decent people that behave with some decorum.
First of all, this is not censoring the foul language, this is censoring words that might offend and that is moronic!
This is not about protecting but about imposing an arbitrary and idiotic rule on people.
But, i get it that from a soldiers point of view it's quite alright and after your own heart to censure another language in order to protect the feelings of someone.
You clearly did not READ my response as I indicated that I believe trying to block bad words tends to be useless so to try and argue with me would be "moronic" although I find the use of that word a little to crude. I find it odd when people are starting to use political rhetoric in places where they are completely unrelated.
To ALL USA residents that feel that they are being treated unfairly (seems ironic when the same people are complaining that others are supposedly in need of safe spaces):
But, if you are interested in defending your rights as a citizen of the United States, your first duty as a citizen is to understand what those rights are. By citing them in areas where they are not applicable it only serves to undermine them. Your First Amendment right to free speech are not violated because the First Amendment is aimed at restricting oppressive legislation by the government. It does not apply to the behavior of individuals or free associations of individuals. Secondly it only applies on US soil. This game is an international group of people and the game maker can make their own rules about what is allowed. Your First Amendment rights do not apply there.
I'm all in favor of trying to clean up the cesspool that UC has become. But trying to censor with bots never works well. (Just look at the great job our old forum AI was doing at spam filtering.)
What is needed, is a real live person whose job it is to monitor the room and personally message offensive posters. Then they can suspend or permanently ban those who break the rules. Like an in-game Shan.
If they’re laying off QA people and developers which are actually necessary, I don’t imagine they will be bringing on someone to monitor chat 24/7.
I'm all in favor of trying to clean up the cesspool that UC has become. But trying to censor with bots never works well. (Just look at the great job our old forum AI was doing at spam filtering.)
What is needed, is a real live person whose job it is to monitor the room and personally message offensive posters. Then they can suspend or permanently ban those who break the rules. Like an in-game Shan.
If they’re laying off QA people and developers which are actually necessary, I don’t imagine they will be bringing on someone to monitor chat 24/7.
Sadly, you're likely right about this. But I live in an ideal rose-colored world where everything is done the way it should be.
Sadly #### is censored. Which offends me. I should be able to say #### anytime I #### want. this is #### bull ####..... To the #### that thought this #### bull #### up, I say #### off!
Does anyone have a clue why the word "Obama" gets hashed out but if you type "Barack Obama" nothing gets censored? That's just ##### (short for ####### ## ###### ### ###########) *lol*
I don't have a problem with the censor. It make sense. There needs to be some modifications to it.
The biggest problems is all the players playing around and trying to figure out what words are censored. That's why you see #### everywhere.
Its on steroids and has no intelligence behind it and thus is killing actual real proper use words that are inoffensive that are close enough. Its running too tight.
At least you can now use the words "accumulate" and "neighborhood", where you couldn't before. (Was curious about the reasoning behind filtering the latter word a little while ago, and finally discovered it was because it contained the letters "HBO" -- which you still can't use on their own in STT chat, for whatever silly reason.) But as a fleetmate pointed out, "Nickelback" is still considered a dirty word by someone at DB.
Probably sounds too much like nakedback which leads to bareback which then implies use no condom.,.lol
To argue a US based private company can be run any way they please would support going back to 'we don't serve negros' & 'whites only sit at the counter' diners. Weren't they privately owned spaces before the 60s?
To argue a US based private company can be run any way they please would support going back to 'we don't serve negros' & 'whites only sit at the counter' diners. Weren't they privately owned spaces before the 60s?
A US based privately company CAN be ran anyway they want as long as they don't do so for reasons that are discriminatory or illegal (which is the major change since the 60's.)
Regardless. There's reasons to run moderation, it's just very much a wreck right now.
First of all, this is not censoring the foul language, this is censoring words that might offend and that is moronic!
This is not about protecting but about imposing an arbitrary and idiotic rule on people.
But, i get it that from a soldiers point of view it's quite alright and after your own heart to censure another language in order to protect the feelings of someone.
Yes, I tried to describe Commander Troi as "Drunk" Troi, ('cause she is!) and it wouldn't accept that. I few creative attempts and I had to give up. I tried vertically, and the last character 'k' was censored.
Comments
It's legal because it's a private company regulating speech in their privately owned space. It is a totalitarian system because it's their privately owned space. They can run it however they want. It's allowable because it's a private entity and there's really nothing they can do to keep you from just walking away if they do something you don't like.
If you ran a message board, you would be well within your rights to ban, modify, censor, etc. any of the content within it.
People also have the freedom to associate with this site (or not). If you don't like how DB runs things, then I suggest you vote with your wallet, feet, and eyeballs and stop giving them ad clicks and playing their games. Nothing is (legally) compelling you to be here.
You're right, they've made some refinements that might actually be beneficial. It went from annoying to another kind of annoying. It appears a few words were added to the filter as well as ones taken away.
Frankly, if they wanna tweak it, fine. Just make us part of the discussion.
The main issue folks have complained about here in the forums in general are stealth fixes, such as fixing packs while saying nothing is wrong but admitting it later. This is a small feature, but making broad changes to it which affect folks ability to interact with each other without notice diminishes if not eliminates whatever good will that can be established by open communication on what in God's blue earth they are doing.
Do we need to crowd source this and give a guide to the profanity filter in the wiki to track changes that DB makes?
Technically if someone can prove that a particular language is being targeted, there could be grounds for a civil rights discrimination case based on decisions that have been made in the last decade or so. Its a stretch but in cases where it has been brought up, you don't have to support a language by interacting with it (i.e. your cashiers don't have to be multi-lingual) but you cannot deny services because they speak in your presence in a particular language. Now you'd have to find a judge wanting to make a broad broad interpretation of that precedent, but.. well it could be argued.
The rest of your statement I'm in complete agreement with as far as what folks rights and responsibilities as well as DBs responsibilities.
There should be some level of filtering in UC. (We can debate back and forth on Fleet Chat). There have been instances of parents suing companies over perceived corruption. (Couldn't find any that won, but I'm not going to camp out on Westlaw to dig a ton on this one.) It decreases DB liability. That being said,
1) It should be done transparently - changes to it should be part of release notes.
2) There should be a dialogue on tweaking it. Now part of that is on us. I think we (and I include myself here) could probably take a lesson from Frank on how to approach DB on issues like this. However, with their recent track record, it does make it damn hard.
The result, romanians have problems communicating due to DB's censorship.
Funny thing: It doesn't matter anymore if it was meant to or not...It is discriminatory!
― Musashi, Japan's Greatest Swordsman and Samurai
At any rate, I like that they're working on supporting the E-rating. Clearly, their implementation has been a bit ham-handed to say the least.
But as a company you've got to do what needs to be done, and there's always someone for any job at the right price. And no bot will ever be an effective censor, because it's not so much the language that's the problem, it's the content.
Squadron Leader - [TFA] Bateson’s Bulldogs
I would say that is quite disamusing... But instead I would end up saying that is quite ##########
You clearly did not READ my response as I indicated that I believe trying to block bad words tends to be useless so to try and argue with me would be "moronic" although I find the use of that word a little to crude. I find it odd when people are starting to use political rhetoric in places where they are completely unrelated.
And btw, I am a US citizen.
But, if you are interested in defending your rights as a citizen of the United States, your first duty as a citizen is to understand what those rights are. By citing them in areas where they are not applicable it only serves to undermine them. Your First Amendment right to free speech are not violated because the First Amendment is aimed at restricting oppressive legislation by the government. It does not apply to the behavior of individuals or free associations of individuals. Secondly it only applies on US soil. This game is an international group of people and the game maker can make their own rules about what is allowed. Your First Amendment rights do not apply there.
I think they saw that, as I am showing Jew and jew not censored now.
If they’re laying off QA people and developers which are actually necessary, I don’t imagine they will be bringing on someone to monitor chat 24/7.
Who pays for it in that world?
Probably sounds too much like nakedback which leads to bareback which then implies use no condom.,.lol
Jewish is not. Wonder how it decides that difference?
A US based privately company CAN be ran anyway they want as long as they don't do so for reasons that are discriminatory or illegal (which is the major change since the 60's.)
Regardless. There's reasons to run moderation, it's just very much a wreck right now.
Yes, I tried to describe Commander Troi as "Drunk" Troi, ('cause she is!) and it wouldn't accept that. I few creative attempts and I had to give up. I tried vertically, and the last character 'k' was censored.
How is that "protecting feelings"?
Just wow.