"Oh my Dog!!! IAmPicard should not have been taken down because people use it!!! We should make sure no one can use anything else to "punish" DB!!!"
Except it's not just about punishing DB - it seems to also be about punishing those who attacked iampicard to the point where he felt the need to take the site down so that he could get some peace.
Maybe I'm playing this game wrong....Why do I need spreadsheets, and wikis and everything else to play the game? I don't use any of that crap. I come on here and there is a sticky saying who the bonus crew are for the next event. I search for them in cryo, and unfreeze them. My phone has an alarm that I can set to any time of day. After the event I freeze them again. Rinse repeat. Why do I need other data sources?
Maybe I'm playing this game wrong....Why do I need spreadsheets, and wikis and everything else to play the game? I don't use any of that crap. I come on here and there is a sticky saying who the bonus crew are for the next event. I search for them in cryo, and unfreeze them. My phone has an alarm that I can set to any time of day. After the event I freeze them again. Rinse repeat. Why do I need other data sources?
Maybe you don't. But maybe other people do. Why are you trying to make their life harder?
you don't "need" it, it's a choice. when you build ikea furniture do you read the instructions first or not? it's a source of information that you probably don't really need to build the furniture. when i get a behold, i choose to look up the options in the wiki to see which is best. if you choose not to do so, that's fine, you're free to do what you want. don't crap on others for choosing to use 3rd party resources if it helps them to enjoy the game more fully.
"Oh my Dog!!! IAmPicard should not have been taken down because people use it!!! We should make sure no one can use anything else to "punish" DB!!!"
Except it's not just about punishing DB - it seems to also be about punishing those who attacked iampicard to the point where he felt the need to take the site down so that he could get some peace.
However, no one has yet provided documentation confirming anything happened. And even less that it was done here, or by Forum members. Just saying.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Maybe I'm playing this game wrong....Why do I need spreadsheets, and wikis and everything else to play the game? I don't use any of that crap. I come on here and there is a sticky saying who the bonus crew are for the next event. I search for them in cryo, and unfreeze them. My phone has an alarm that I can set to any time of day. After the event I freeze them again. Rinse repeat. Why do I need other data sources?
Maybe you don't. But maybe other people do. Why are you trying to make their life harder?
I'M not trying to make their lives harder...I'm trying to understand why some people feel their lives are being made so unbearably difficult by the loss of this 3rd party tool.
Maybe I'm playing this game wrong....Why do I need spreadsheets, and wikis and everything else to play the game? I don't use any of that crap. I come on here and there is a sticky saying who the bonus crew are for the next event. I search for them in cryo, and unfreeze them. My phone has an alarm that I can set to any time of day. After the event I freeze them again. Rinse repeat. Why do I need other data sources?
The Dilemmas Wiki is always a Tab, for me. Since there are multi-part Dilemmas.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
regardless, the tool is down and people are showing their support for it's creator. i don't understand the motivation for speaking out against a tool that one can use any time they want, but choose not to. that's your choice, not mine. so i speak in support of the tool. those who want to use it can, those who don't, don't have to.
Maybe I'm playing this game wrong....Why do I need spreadsheets, and wikis and everything else to play the game? I don't use any of that crap. I come on here and there is a sticky saying who the bonus crew are for the next event. I search for them in cryo, and unfreeze them. My phone has an alarm that I can set to any time of day. After the event I freeze them again. Rinse repeat. Why do I need other data sources?
Maybe you don't. But maybe other people do. Why are you trying to make their life harder?
I'M not trying to make their lives harder...I'm trying to understand why some people feel their lives are being made so unbearably difficult by the loss of this 3rd party tool.
Why does the difficulty have to be unbearable for them to express an opinion? It seems valid to me that introducing inconvenience into someone's life, even yours, would elicit a negative response, hopefully nothing more harmful than a respectful message on a public forum.
you don't "need" it, it's a choice. when you build ikea furniture do you read the instructions first or not? it's a source of information that you probably don't really need to build the furniture. when i get a behold, i choose to look up the options in the wiki to see which is best. if you choose not to do so, that's fine, you're free to do what you want. don't crap on others for choosing to use 3rd party resources if it helps them to enjoy the game more fully.
Unfair comparison. When I get a piece of furniture from IKEA i use the instructions THAT CAME IN THE BOX. I don't need to go on the internet and watch a youtube video of IKEA furniture getting assembled. Or go to a website to find it's dimensions when they are already on the box. That is a more equal comparison IMO.
Unfair comparison. When I get a piece of furniture from IKEA i use the instructions THAT CAME IN THE BOX. I don't need to go on the internet and watch a youtube video of IKEA furniture getting assembled. Or go to a website to find it's dimensions when they are already on the box. That is a more equal comparison IMO.
that's fine. so the youtube video of the furniture is deleted and people are upset because the instructions in the box were unclear and difficult to read. the video made it a lot easier to assemble the furniture. now, if you don't like youtube and can build it without the video, do so. but don't be upset at the people who wish the video was still up because they felt it made for a more pleasant experience. my point is, if you didn't use it, then it didn't affect you. why do you care?
To be fair to both sides, discussions on these forums can have thousands of messages and views in days. It might take the limited staff DB has assigned to this issue months just to review and analyze the data in the last two days because of other responsibilities. Don't expect DB, or any corporation for that matter, to make a fast decision on what could be a legal issue.
However, it is their right, if they think any software has violated their proprietary rights, to review it in their own time and make a decision in the best interests of the company. They can remove any link or sticky on their forums at anytime and explain why much later, when they are ready. Players can complain, but they have no rights in any of these issues. Even every log in ID and account belongs to DB so they can do whatever they want. If players don't like it, they can voice their concerns in the forums and with their wallets.
I don't use the IAP app but I understand the need for information in a stats based game. However, the IAP app was able to access and play parts of STT outside of the official app by DB. They probably don't like this. Would you like it if you made a program and someone else found a way to circumvent your program to play it without compensating you for it? Probably not. Hopefully, DB can find a way to improve their app to remove some of the time sink issues that IAP helped some users with but don't expect a quick solution or response to this issue given the complexity of the problem at hand.
Maybe I'm playing this game wrong....Why do I need spreadsheets, and wikis and everything else to play the game? I don't use any of that crap. I come on here and there is a sticky saying who the bonus crew are for the next event. I search for them in cryo, and unfreeze them. My phone has an alarm that I can set to any time of day. After the event I freeze them again. Rinse repeat. Why do I need other data sources?
Maybe you don't. But maybe other people do. Why are you trying to make their life harder?
I'M not trying to make their lives harder...I'm trying to understand why some people feel their lives are being made so unbearably difficult by the loss of this 3rd party tool.
Why does the difficulty have to be unbearable for them to express an opinion? It seems valid to me that introducing inconvenience into someone's life, even yours, would elicit a negative response, hopefully nothing more harmful than a respectful message on a public forum.
I lost count of how many people said they rage-.quitting because IAP is no longer available for use. Sounds like those people find it more than an inconvenience.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
However, no one has yet provided documentation confirming anything happened. And even less that it was done here, or by Forum members. Just saying.
Your like a broken record. Are you calling someone a liar because they are not Kowtowing to your demand for evidence?
No. You are confusing me with the person who libeled me yesterday. You wanna jump on the bandwagon with the people who are attacking people they disagree with, that is fine. But, fortunately we live in a country where it takes a little more proof before a needle goes in someone's arm while they are strapped to a cold steel table.
Everyone enjoy your argument. I have much better things to do with my life.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Unfair comparison. When I get a piece of furniture from IKEA i use the instructions THAT CAME IN THE BOX. I don't need to go on the internet and watch a youtube video of IKEA furniture getting assembled. Or go to a website to find it's dimensions when they are already on the box. That is a more equal comparison IMO.
that's fine. so the youtube video of the furniture is deleted and people are upset because the instructions in the box were unclear and difficult to read. the video made it a lot easier to assemble the furniture. now, if you don't like youtube and can build it without the video, do so. but don't be upset at the people who wish the video was still up because they felt it made for a more pleasant experience. my point is, if you didn't use it, then it didn't affect you. why do you care?
Bro, this is exactly my point...i'm not upset. Other people are losing their minds over this silliness.
Maybe I'm playing this game wrong....Why do I need spreadsheets, and wikis and everything else to play the game? I don't use any of that crap. I come on here and there is a sticky saying who the bonus crew are for the next event. I search for them in cryo, and unfreeze them. My phone has an alarm that I can set to any time of day. After the event I freeze them again. Rinse repeat. Why do I need other data sources?
We don't *need* external community resources. But they're great for strategizing, expanding the game and building community. Players have created a world of numbers and images together. People have put countless hours into these resources, which I think deserve more respect than being called "that crap". I don't care if you don't want to be able to search for ship and crew statistics, item drop rates, estimate and optimize voyages, or use spreadsheets and other stuff. You don't *need* them. Nobody does. But do they make the game better? More in depth? For many of us, they do.
I loved some of the functions of IAmPicard. For me the inventory was the best part. In-game inventory UI **tsk tsk**. The app filled in places where the STT UI falls short.
I'll live without it like before though. The game is still playable. If others don't feel that way, that's up to them. There's no need for hostility over it. Everyone can enjoy the game how we like best.
To be fair to both sides, discussions on these forums can have thousands of messages and views in days. It might take the limited staff DB has assigned to this issue months just to review and analyze the data in the last two days because of other responsibilities. Don't expect DB, or any corporation for that matter, to make a fast decision on what could be a legal issue.
However, it is their right, if they think any software has violated their proprietary rights, to review it in their own time and make a decision in the best interests of the company. They can remove any link or sticky on their forums at anytime and explain why much later, when they are ready. Players can complain, but they have no rights in any of these issues. Even every log in ID and account belongs to DB so they can do whatever they want. If players don't like it, they can voice their concerns in the forums and with their wallets.
I don't use the IAP app but I understand the need for information in a stats based game. However, the IAP app was able to access and play parts of STT outside of the official app by DB. They probably don't like this. Would you like it if you made a program and someone else found a way to circumvent your program to play it without compensating you for it? Probably not. Hopefully, DB can find a way to improve their app to remove some of the time sink issues that IAP helped some users with but don't expect a quick solution or response to this issue given the complexity of the problem at hand.
"Oh my Dog!!! IAmPicard should not have been taken down because people use it!!! We should make sure no one can use anything else to "punish" DB!!!"
Except it's not just about punishing DB - it seems to also be about punishing those who attacked iampicard to the point where he felt the need to take the site down so that he could get some peace.
However, no one has yet provided documentation confirming anything happened. And even less that it was done here, or by Forum members. Just saying.
Except there IS documentation of DB's dithering on whether to allow the tool or not.
In October, DB made a post that they were reviewing the tool after it had been stickied in the Ready Room for a good year or so.
This past weekend, they made a second post taking down the sticky...but not because they didn't approve of the tool but, "...while we assess more thoroughly the ins and outs of said tool and its impacts."
In the intervening time while DB declined to comment, speculation and fear fills the vacuum. I will agree, we have no evidence of the harassment that TekmanRo has alleged. But DB has also done nothing to improve the environment that would have allowed it to foment.
To be fair to both sides, discussions on these forums can have thousands of messages and views in days. It might take the limited staff DB has assigned to this issue months just to review and analyze the data in the last two days because of other responsibilities. Don't expect DB, or any corporation for that matter, to make a fast decision on what could be a legal issue.
I endorse your observation.
I have wrestled over the last 24 hours with whether I think DB has any contributing culpability in the outcome. I have settled on:
I do not blame them for contributing to the outcome.
I am, however, highly disappointed that the company, for a 3-year old game, did not already have a more clearly articulated and communicated posture - set of principles - for how it wanted to handle an ecosystem of player enhancements. Not ToS, not legalese, but a philosophy and set of principles of how they wanted the surrounding STT ecosystem to look like. Such a foundation would have allowed the original October churn to be dispositioned much more quickly, and/or a fallback position while the newer review took its course. It's not like gaming in a distributed online environment is a new phenomena or something, such a directional vector should be a foundational element of a business model.
I have a hard time equating a spreadsheet that houses raw data with an app that analyses that data and makes gaming decisions for you.
I've used the spreadsheet many times (thanks to you and all contributors), but have never considered using the app. I enjoy being hands-on and making manual calculations, strategizing and implementing my own decisions.
To each their own I suppose, but any app or macro that automates or streamlines gameplay just doesn't seem sporting to me.
You mean you enjoy being hands-on and consulting @Peachtree Rex's calculations.
When I was starting out, and now occasionally during a behold with 3 new characters? Absolutely.
Over the last two years I have built my own spreadsheets that provide all that data and more for my own crew.
Spreadsheets are just storing data that is available in-game. They don't make the game quicker or easier to play, and in fact referencing that raw data is incremental time spent on the game in addition to actually playing the game itself. The spreadsheets certainly don't make and/or implement gaming decisions for me.
Consider voyages. Consulting a spreadsheet, or your memory, or the crew selection screen in-game, presents the raw stats for each crew member. It is up to the player to select the 12 crew members that maximize the stats across the six skill categories. Just selecting the 'best' voyage crew listed in a spreadsheet doesn't really help, since that selection is dependent on which crew you actually have, what the traits are, and how the selections mix together to cover the skills (ie: primary, secondary, other four). If the app analyses your entire crew roster and can automatically instantly select that 12 crew that maximizes the skill points for that particular voyage, then the player is no longer the one playing the game.
To suggest that consulting a static spreadsheet equates to an app or macro that automates gameplay, is like suggesting that reading a car's operating manual before heading out on a road trip equates to being driven around by a chauffer or a self-driving vehicle.
The community over time has shared methods to balance your crew to maximize voyage length by targeting higher point allocation to the top two skills and lower points to the others. Is it wrong that we shared a broad strategy?
Some members built spreadsheets and shared them that show stats and help you rank crew, to help guide you in selection with those ranks. Is it wrong to share tools to help rank crew and show you which are stronger in a given area?
Then someone good at math built a voyage calculator with a formula (based on estimates and experience, not stealing it from DB or something) helping you to determine how close you are to optimizing your selections of crew based on those raw stat numbers by you typing the total stat numbers you've got allocated for each skill. Is it wrong that someone good at math built a calculator?
Iampicard took it one step further and built a BETTER calculator, that analyzed your crew and sorted them to SUGGEST which crew would meet that optimal pattern. It was still up to you if you wanted to accept that advice, which sometimes allocates very low stats to one skill to maximize odds of a longer voyage.
I don't understand how you have no problem with the first 3 developments of strategic sharing, but the 4th tool is suddenly wrong. it does NOT make the decision for you, you have to ACCEPT the SUGGESTION.
I have a hard time equating a spreadsheet that houses raw data with an app that analyses that data and makes gaming decisions for you.
I've used the spreadsheet many times (thanks to you and all contributors), but have never considered using the app. I enjoy being hands-on and making manual calculations, strategizing and implementing my own decisions.
To each their own I suppose, but any app or macro that automates or streamlines gameplay just doesn't seem sporting to me.
You mean you enjoy being hands-on and consulting @Peachtree Rex's calculations.
When I was starting out, and now occasionally during a behold with 3 new characters? Absolutely.
Over the last two years I have built my own spreadsheets that provide all that data and more for my own crew.
Spreadsheets are just storing data that is available in-game. They don't make the game quicker or easier to play, and in fact referencing that raw data is incremental time spent on the game in addition to actually playing the game itself. The spreadsheets certainly don't make and/or implement gaming decisions for me.
Consider voyages. Consulting a spreadsheet, or your memory, or the crew selection screen in-game, presents the raw stats for each crew member. It is up to the player to select the 12 crew members that maximize the stats across the six skill categories. Just selecting the 'best' voyage crew listed in a spreadsheet doesn't really help, since that selection is dependent on which crew you actually have, what the traits are, and how the selections mix together to cover the skills (ie: primary, secondary, other four). If the app analyses your entire crew roster and can automatically instantly select that 12 crew that maximizes the skill points for that particular voyage, then the player is no longer the one playing the game.
To suggest that consulting a static spreadsheet equates to an app or macro that automates gameplay, is like suggesting that reading a car's operating manual before heading out on a road trip equates to being driven around by a chauffer or a self-driving vehicle.
The community over time has shared methods to balance your crew to maximize voyage length by targeting higher point allocation to the top two skills and lower points to the others. Is it wrong that we shared a broad strategy?
Some members built spreadsheets and shared them that show stats and help you rank crew, to help guide you in selection with those ranks. Is it wrong to share tools to help rank crew and show you which are stronger in a given area?
Then someone good at math built a voyage calculator with a formula (based on estimates and experience, not stealing it from DB or something) helping you to determine how close you are to optimizing your selections of crew based on those raw stat numbers by you typing the total stat numbers you've got allocated for each skill. Is it wrong that someone good at math built a calculator?
Iampicard took it one step further and built a BETTER calculator, that analyzed your crew and sorted them to SUGGEST which crew would meet that optimal pattern. It was still up to you if you wanted to accept that advice, which sometimes allocates very low stats to one skill to maximize odds of a longer voyage.
I don't understand how you have no problem with the first 3 developments of strategic sharing, but the 4th tool is suddenly wrong. it does NOT make the decision for you, you have to ACCEPT the SUGGESTION.
It's one thing to develop tools to help you do something better.
Creating an interface that circumvents the game app altogether, and starts taking the strategizing and decision-making out of your hands, is something entirely different. Yes, you have to actually accept the suggestion, but the app is still doing the work for you.
On one hand, I understand that it can be perceived as an evolution of increased efficiency, in the same vein as spreadsheets, calculators, etc... On the other hand, I see it as a slippery slope to a fully automated gaming experience, where you dictate parameters to a 3rd party app that then goes and completely plays the game for you.
Based on your justification, the only difference between what the app is doing for voyages and what macros do for skirmish events (for example), is that the player has to accept the suggestion. Well, to play devil's advocate, a macro has to first be programmed by the player, to copy something the player actually does in the game. The macro is simply a repeater, doing something the player has already done, without contributing any original decision-making.
I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, and obviously I don't set policy for DB and/or STT. However, my opinion is that to play the game you should be playing the game (ie: the actual STT app) yourself (ie: no automation to do things for you in-game). Anything you want to do offline and outside of the game itself to prepare, plan, strategize, calculate, aid in your own decision-making, is perfectly fine. The player should still have to open the STT app and play the game. The moment you play STT via some other interface and/or utilize some sort of automated gameplay mechanism, to me that is crossing the line.
By the way OP, I love your spreadsheet and while I appreciate your stance in supporting another 3rd party contributor, I am not sure why you are removing your own tool when one of the reasons he stated for bringing down his tool was he was being doxxed. I don't think if DB suddently approved his entire tool, that the doxxing would suddenly go away.
That being said, the tool seemed to drop from support very rapidly once he started requesting money to help with server hosting costs. I can understand there are costs with that and loved the convenience, but there are very obvious potential legal ramifications when a 3rd party starts collecting money related to DB's IP. As soon as I saw him requesting money, I suspected this would happen.
"Oh my Dog!!! IAmPicard should not have been taken down because people use it!!! We should make sure no one can use anything else to "punish" DB!!!"
Except it's not just about punishing DB - it seems to also be about punishing those who attacked iampicard to the point where he felt the need to take the site down so that he could get some peace.
So punish the thousands for the acts of a handful? Yeah, and this is exactly why you don't do stuff like this. If you like the game, keep supporting it as a community. If you don't quit. All this does is drive people away and make it more likely the game goes away. no one wins when you're having a temper tantrum.
"Oh my Dog!!! IAmPicard should not have been taken down because people use it!!! We should make sure no one can use anything else to "punish" DB!!!"
Except it's not just about punishing DB - it seems to also be about punishing those who attacked iampicard to the point where he felt the need to take the site down so that he could get some peace.
So punish the thousands for the acts of a handful? Yeah, and this is exactly why you don't do stuff like this. If you like the game, keep supporting it as a community. If you don't quit. All this does is drive people away and make it more likely the game goes away. no one wins when you're having a temper tantrum.
The more people it drives away the better. Unfortunately there is no way to know how many people and how much DB is losing in revenue. If it gets to the point where it is likely the game goes away then maybe they will sell it to an entity that understands the playing community better.
"Oh my Dog!!! IAmPicard should not have been taken down because people use it!!! We should make sure no one can use anything else to "punish" DB!!!"
Except it's not just about punishing DB - it seems to also be about punishing those who attacked iampicard to the point where he felt the need to take the site down so that he could get some peace.
So punish the thousands for the acts of a handful? Yeah, and this is exactly why you don't do stuff like this. If you like the game, keep supporting it as a community. If you don't quit. All this does is drive people away and make it more likely the game goes away. no one wins when you're having a temper tantrum.
Or it could highlight just how important tools like IAP/crew spreadsheet/wiki are to the continued success of the game and should be treated with respect by DB?
I wish the wiki would be taken offline in support of this cause, but that might be difficult as there’s probably a bigger committee running it.
Comments
HAHA i just realized your Ogre avatar is saying "BORGS!!!" instead of "NERDS!!!" Thumbs up old man.
Except it's not just about punishing DB - it seems to also be about punishing those who attacked iampicard to the point where he felt the need to take the site down so that he could get some peace.
Maybe you don't. But maybe other people do. Why are you trying to make their life harder?
However, no one has yet provided documentation confirming anything happened. And even less that it was done here, or by Forum members. Just saying.
I'M not trying to make their lives harder...I'm trying to understand why some people feel their lives are being made so unbearably difficult by the loss of this 3rd party tool.
The Dilemmas Wiki is always a Tab, for me. Since there are multi-part Dilemmas.
I made it the other day, when we first saw the Borg Faction was coming. Ogre was already in my Downloads whee I made one that said "NERDS!!!"
Why does the difficulty have to be unbearable for them to express an opinion? It seems valid to me that introducing inconvenience into someone's life, even yours, would elicit a negative response, hopefully nothing more harmful than a respectful message on a public forum.
Unfair comparison. When I get a piece of furniture from IKEA i use the instructions THAT CAME IN THE BOX. I don't need to go on the internet and watch a youtube video of IKEA furniture getting assembled. Or go to a website to find it's dimensions when they are already on the box. That is a more equal comparison IMO.
Your like a broken record. Are you calling someone a liar because they are not Kowtowing to your demand for evidence?
that's fine. so the youtube video of the furniture is deleted and people are upset because the instructions in the box were unclear and difficult to read. the video made it a lot easier to assemble the furniture. now, if you don't like youtube and can build it without the video, do so. but don't be upset at the people who wish the video was still up because they felt it made for a more pleasant experience. my point is, if you didn't use it, then it didn't affect you. why do you care?
However, it is their right, if they think any software has violated their proprietary rights, to review it in their own time and make a decision in the best interests of the company. They can remove any link or sticky on their forums at anytime and explain why much later, when they are ready. Players can complain, but they have no rights in any of these issues. Even every log in ID and account belongs to DB so they can do whatever they want. If players don't like it, they can voice their concerns in the forums and with their wallets.
I don't use the IAP app but I understand the need for information in a stats based game. However, the IAP app was able to access and play parts of STT outside of the official app by DB. They probably don't like this. Would you like it if you made a program and someone else found a way to circumvent your program to play it without compensating you for it? Probably not. Hopefully, DB can find a way to improve their app to remove some of the time sink issues that IAP helped some users with but don't expect a quick solution or response to this issue given the complexity of the problem at hand.
I lost count of how many people said they rage-.quitting because IAP is no longer available for use. Sounds like those people find it more than an inconvenience.
LOL! How dare you ask for evidence to back up a claim! Rabble rabble!!!
No. You are confusing me with the person who libeled me yesterday. You wanna jump on the bandwagon with the people who are attacking people they disagree with, that is fine. But, fortunately we live in a country where it takes a little more proof before a needle goes in someone's arm while they are strapped to a cold steel table.
Everyone enjoy your argument. I have much better things to do with my life.
Bro, this is exactly my point...i'm not upset. Other people are losing their minds over this silliness.
We don't *need* external community resources. But they're great for strategizing, expanding the game and building community. Players have created a world of numbers and images together. People have put countless hours into these resources, which I think deserve more respect than being called "that crap". I don't care if you don't want to be able to search for ship and crew statistics, item drop rates, estimate and optimize voyages, or use spreadsheets and other stuff. You don't *need* them. Nobody does. But do they make the game better? More in depth? For many of us, they do.
I loved some of the functions of IAmPicard. For me the inventory was the best part. In-game inventory UI **tsk tsk**. The app filled in places where the STT UI falls short.
I'll live without it like before though. The game is still playable. If others don't feel that way, that's up to them. There's no need for hostility over it. Everyone can enjoy the game how we like best.
~· Fly with the Subspace Eddies! ·~
I appreciate you, @Average Guy
Except there IS documentation of DB's dithering on whether to allow the tool or not.
In October, DB made a post that they were reviewing the tool after it had been stickied in the Ready Room for a good year or so.
This past weekend, they made a second post taking down the sticky...but not because they didn't approve of the tool but, "...while we assess more thoroughly the ins and outs of said tool and its impacts."
In the intervening time while DB declined to comment, speculation and fear fills the vacuum. I will agree, we have no evidence of the harassment that TekmanRo has alleged. But DB has also done nothing to improve the environment that would have allowed it to foment.
I endorse your observation.
I have wrestled over the last 24 hours with whether I think DB has any contributing culpability in the outcome. I have settled on:
The community over time has shared methods to balance your crew to maximize voyage length by targeting higher point allocation to the top two skills and lower points to the others. Is it wrong that we shared a broad strategy?
Some members built spreadsheets and shared them that show stats and help you rank crew, to help guide you in selection with those ranks. Is it wrong to share tools to help rank crew and show you which are stronger in a given area?
Then someone good at math built a voyage calculator with a formula (based on estimates and experience, not stealing it from DB or something) helping you to determine how close you are to optimizing your selections of crew based on those raw stat numbers by you typing the total stat numbers you've got allocated for each skill. Is it wrong that someone good at math built a calculator?
Iampicard took it one step further and built a BETTER calculator, that analyzed your crew and sorted them to SUGGEST which crew would meet that optimal pattern. It was still up to you if you wanted to accept that advice, which sometimes allocates very low stats to one skill to maximize odds of a longer voyage.
I don't understand how you have no problem with the first 3 developments of strategic sharing, but the 4th tool is suddenly wrong. it does NOT make the decision for you, you have to ACCEPT the SUGGESTION.
It's one thing to develop tools to help you do something better.
Creating an interface that circumvents the game app altogether, and starts taking the strategizing and decision-making out of your hands, is something entirely different. Yes, you have to actually accept the suggestion, but the app is still doing the work for you.
On one hand, I understand that it can be perceived as an evolution of increased efficiency, in the same vein as spreadsheets, calculators, etc... On the other hand, I see it as a slippery slope to a fully automated gaming experience, where you dictate parameters to a 3rd party app that then goes and completely plays the game for you.
Based on your justification, the only difference between what the app is doing for voyages and what macros do for skirmish events (for example), is that the player has to accept the suggestion. Well, to play devil's advocate, a macro has to first be programmed by the player, to copy something the player actually does in the game. The macro is simply a repeater, doing something the player has already done, without contributing any original decision-making.
I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, and obviously I don't set policy for DB and/or STT. However, my opinion is that to play the game you should be playing the game (ie: the actual STT app) yourself (ie: no automation to do things for you in-game). Anything you want to do offline and outside of the game itself to prepare, plan, strategize, calculate, aid in your own decision-making, is perfectly fine. The player should still have to open the STT app and play the game. The moment you play STT via some other interface and/or utilize some sort of automated gameplay mechanism, to me that is crossing the line.
That being said, the tool seemed to drop from support very rapidly once he started requesting money to help with server hosting costs. I can understand there are costs with that and loved the convenience, but there are very obvious potential legal ramifications when a 3rd party starts collecting money related to DB's IP. As soon as I saw him requesting money, I suspected this would happen.
So punish the thousands for the acts of a handful? Yeah, and this is exactly why you don't do stuff like this. If you like the game, keep supporting it as a community. If you don't quit. All this does is drive people away and make it more likely the game goes away. no one wins when you're having a temper tantrum.
The more people it drives away the better. Unfortunately there is no way to know how many people and how much DB is losing in revenue. If it gets to the point where it is likely the game goes away then maybe they will sell it to an entity that understands the playing community better.
Or it could highlight just how important tools like IAP/crew spreadsheet/wiki are to the continued success of the game and should be treated with respect by DB?
I wish the wiki would be taken offline in support of this cause, but that might be difficult as there’s probably a bigger committee running it.