One works in game, the others are off game resource tools. Seems a pretty clear delineation to me. Not sure how you taking away a tool other players use is going to hurt db. Iampicard app hasnt even been removed or banned by db.
One works in game, the others are off game resource tools. Seems a pretty clear delineation to me. Not sure how you taking away a tool other players use is going to hurt db. Iampicard app hasnt even been removed or banned by db.
I agree. This is two completely different things. I have never seen wiki's or spreadsheet utilities for any game impacted by TOS issues. Game "helpers" are always grey areas and fall under different sets of rules. While I understand your reason for doing this, all it does is hurt people not DB. (and I am not a user of either of these items).
One works in game, the others are off game resource tools. Seems a pretty clear delineation to me. Not sure how you taking away a tool other players use is going to hurt db. Iampicard app hasnt even been removed or banned by db.
For me, it was the lack of clarification from DB, 3 months after they announced they would review Iampicard and other tools.
And then the removal of the discussion, where they support the tool. But no explanation why.
No clarification of what tools are allowed or not.
Community tools are important because this game is getting more and more chore based as time goes on. We now have hints we’ll be able to do extra cadet missions, based on a fixed limit per day (after a failed attempt which would have been expecting serious players to login every 30 minutes). I don’t want more ‘work’ like this to keep up.
I occasionally use the spreadsheet and will miss it. I also use the wiki alot, but I’d support a protest which disabled that too.
I won’t be spending anything in game until either DB put this right (work with IAP developer, if they are still motivated to help), or implement major changes and new features based on the tool and the feedback we’ve been giving them for 3 years.
I never used the spreadsheet (built my own a long time ago), but I used IAP extensively, and will continue using the desktop version I already had until it no longer works. I think this protest is good and proper.
Given recent developments, I'm really considering dropping STT altogether, and putting my gaming time into Fleet Command instead.
I wasn t aware that the Wiki and other similar tools require ur game log in data and that you actually can use it to play ur game from there, with less time needed, cause it saves you klicks and skips animations, like the IamPicard Tool did.
That's neither here nor there. Showing solidarity by removing other useful tools, login or not, is perfectly acceptable and I'm all for it. Remove the wiki, remove other useful tools and it will definitely have an impact on the game.
The sad part is that DB could have stuck to their prior approval of the tool and then ignored complaints about it the same way they ignore complaints about the shuttle issue.
I've removed all the details from my Voyage guide that gives the correct path choices for all the voyage exclusive crew on the stickied page in solidarity. They may return pending the outcome of iampicard.
I've removed all the details from my Voyage guide that gives the correct path choices for all the voyage exclusive crew on the stickied page in solidarity. They may return pending the outcome of iampicard.
Again, just punishing the players. Does nothing for real support of the tool being reviewed or the way the creator was treated.
I've removed all the details from my Voyage guide that gives the correct path choices for all the voyage exclusive crew on the stickied page in solidarity. They may return pending the outcome of iampicard.
Again, just punishing the players. Does nothing for real support of the tool being reviewed or the way the creator was treated.
I kept a copy so it can easily be reinstated. Unfortunately causing pain for the players is probably one of the only ways to cause pain for DB because if enough players are inconvenienced by not having guides, wikis, etc. removed and the stop playing the game, it hit's DB's bottom line.
Of course DB could easily just quickly give an answer, instead of dragging it on for months, on their verdict for the tool. I can't see where they would have a legitimate problem with the tool because anyone who could modify the tool to cheat could easily just access those same public APIs to cheat without iampicard.
DB needs to stop dragging their feet and just make a ruling. Though, at this point, I wouldn't blame @TekmanRO if he didn't put the tool back up even if DB did rule that it was okay.
Thankfully, I read that enough times to have it memorized for the most part.
Same here.
If people want to support the tool, Flood CS, Flood DB's contact methods, etc. That's were the community needs to focus its support.
The problem is I don't think that helps much either, and only serves to clog CS with more unnecessary tickets that they probably can't even really address, much less solve. I don't think this is really DB's fault, except through inaction and lack of comment. This was a player-generated situation. Unless DB goes out of their way to steer the ship back, it will be up to the players to solve it.
Thankfully, I read that enough times to have it memorized for the most part.
Same here.
If people want to support the tool, Flood CS, Flood DB's contact methods, etc. That's were the community needs to focus its support.
The problem is I don't think that helps much either, and only serves to clog CS with more unnecessary tickets that they probably can't even really address, much less solve. I don't think this is really DB's fault, except through inaction and lack of comment. This was a player-generated situation. Unless DB goes out of their way to steer the ship back, it will be up to the players to solve it.
DB simply has to approve the use of iampicard and the problem goes away. If they officially approve it, it wouldn't matter how much whining and complaining the vocal minority did. The tool could return and all the pressure would be gone for the developer of the tool.
Thankfully, I read that enough times to have it memorized for the most part.
Same here.
If people want to support the tool, Flood CS, Flood DB's contact methods, etc. That's were the community needs to focus its support.
The problem is I don't think that helps much either, and only serves to clog CS with more unnecessary tickets that they probably can't even really address, much less solve. I don't think this is really DB's fault, except through inaction and lack of comment. This was a player-generated situation. Unless DB goes out of their way to steer the ship back, it will be up to the players to solve it.
DB simply has to approve the use of iampicard and the problem goes away. If they officially approve it, it wouldn't matter how much whining and complaining the vocal minority did. The tool could return and all the pressure would be gone for the developer of the tool.
Thankfully, I read that enough times to have it memorized for the most part.
Same here.
If people want to support the tool, Flood CS, Flood DB's contact methods, etc. That's were the community needs to focus its support.
The problem is I don't think that helps much either, and only serves to clog CS with more unnecessary tickets that they probably can't even really address, much less solve. I don't think this is really DB's fault, except through inaction and lack of comment. This was a player-generated situation. Unless DB goes out of their way to steer the ship back, it will be up to the players to solve it.
DB simply has to approve the use of iampicard and the problem goes away. If they officially approve it, it wouldn't matter how much whining and complaining the vocal minority did. The tool could return and all the pressure would be gone for the developer of the tool.
I’m not sure that after all the abuse the IAP dev would want to come back. If he’s been doxxed and threatened then it could even be a police matter at this point (and I hope they get the *%#!).
leaving it to the players to solve is probably not the greatest solution. it's like having a single toy in a daycare and trusting the kids to play fairly with it. i totally understand the idea behind removing all 3rd party helpers in support of the iap tool, if it works, i'm all for it. but truly, if db came out and validated iap then this would be far more likely to just go away and die. this drama is toxic, and if all 3rd party resources disappear then it will take a serious toll on the player base.
Can I get clarification on one thing? When it was first mentioned that the developer of IAP was being harassed the other day, people was saying that it was on Reddit or somewhere? Now people are reacting like the harassment was done on these Forums? Considering some of the posts that get "blue inked", I find it hard to believe that harassment and bullying would not be addressed quickly by Mods, here..........
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
A missed opportunity where the developer could have worked with a member of the community bridging a gap and adding to the relationship between them and their fan base, instead we have this. I do not agree, necessarily, with coercement because it is forced, however it appears for a long time now this is the only avenue left. DB has to voluntarily show willingness otherwise it will just be threat after threat after threat - and that is never a good relationship to be built upon.
[was on Sabbatical/Hiatus] Currently a trialist at Galaxy SquadronSTAY SAFE and KBO
I've removed all the details from my Voyage guide that gives the correct path choices for all the voyage exclusive crew on the stickied page in solidarity. They may return pending the outcome of iampicard.
I support both your choice and that of the original thread author. Disruptor Beam needs to wake up and actually engage with their community in meaningful ways.
I'm fairly certain that this is a case of someone high enough up to make a decision not bothering to make a decision. Management in any company often has that person who is midway or higher up the food chain who delights in leaving people twisting in the wind on important company issues while they focus on the number of swizzle sticks to order for the company Keurig.
DB simply has to approve the use of iampicard and the problem goes away. If they officially approve it, it wouldn't matter how much whining and complaining the vocal minority did. The tool could return and all the pressure would be gone for the developer of the tool.
The problem was crappy people being crappy. I think this is one of those "this is why we can't have nice things situations." This is the way it is now, I'm afraid.
Can I get clarification on one thing? When it was first mentioned that the developer of IAP was being harassed the other day, people was saying that it was on Reddit or somewhere? Now people are reacting like the harassment was done on these Forums? Considering some of the posts that get "blue inked", I find it hard to believe that harassment and bullying would not be addressed quickly by Mods, here..........
It's very likely the harassment wasn't in either forum but in private communication via his website or other means. To my knowledge, TekmanRo provided no concrete evidence, so we only have his allegations.
Either way, DB's silence and inaction on this matter is my broader concern. People put in many hours into their tools and apps to help make some of the daily irritations of this game a bit more bearable. It is nice to have some knowledge of where the "line" is and if it has been crossed.
I've removed all the details from my Voyage guide that gives the correct path choices for all the voyage exclusive crew on the stickied page in solidarity. They may return pending the outcome of iampicard.
Again, just punishing the players. Does nothing for real support of the tool being reviewed or the way the creator was treated.
You know what, the players need punished. The players give their money to DB and not to all the folk that provide help and resources to the community. Until the players force DB to change their ways, the community should stop helping the players.
leaving it to the players to solve is probably not the greatest solution. it's like having a single toy in a daycare and trusting the kids to play fairly with it. i totally understand the idea behind removing all 3rd party helpers in support of the iap tool, if it works, i'm all for it. but truly, if db came out and validated iap then this would be far more likely to just go away and die. this drama is toxic, and if all 3rd party resources disappear then it will take a serious toll on the player base.
Unfortunately leaving the players to solve the problem is the ONLY solution. For 3 years DV has refused to get involved and has consistently provided terrible CS. TPTB simply do not value the player base, seeing them only as wallets on a spreadsheet.
Unfortunately, removing the tools that streamline and make the game playable reveals the shortcomings of the game. And reducing player spending and satisfaction are the only things that will get through to DB and help make the game better.
If there was no PLAYER made Wiki, and PLAYER made spreadsheets, and PLAYER made 3rd party chat servers and PLAYER made bots, this game would truly be a tedious slog, and I highly suspect no longer even in service, and absolutely MUCH less profitable.
I know for a fact that at least half of my fleet would no longer be in this game if it wasn't for Discord and PLAYER (even fleet only) made resources.
I was quite shocked last night when the IAP tool went down, even moreso when I read why he did it. I fully support him doing it and I used his tool along with this spreadsheet and the DNA sheet, so much work helped in a game with a theme I loved. I always kept an up to date of your sheet along with the others just to compare and added some of my own little items to my own copy. I support your decision to take it down, will really miss it if it's gone forever. I'm always using spreadsheets in various games I play with my own little formulas, I just never had the skill you guys had with the data range so was thankful you could fill in the massive skill gap.
I never bought anything other than the monthly card however the changes over the last few days have made me question why I would keep that tiny tiny support up when DB have been so quiet. I may just play out my current monthly and stop it until something changes.
---- The Guardians of Tomorrow Protecting the Galaxy's Future from itself
You can try to solely blame DB all you like, but people are ultimately accountable for their own actions. Lately this community has become unbearably toxic with trolling and gossip that it really isn't surprising that iampicard became Iwaspicard.
This is a Star Trek community. We need to do better to earn that name.
You can try to solely blame DB all you like, but people are ultimately accountable for their own actions. Lately this community has become unbearably toxic with trolling and gossip that it really isn't surprising that iampicard became Iwaspicard.
This is a Star Trek community. We need to do better to earn that name.
And DB can help us in this regard by making a statement that acknowledges the issues and their role in them. This latest conflagration is directly attributable to DB deleting the thread relating to the app. They need to own the fact that in the absence of genuine communication on the issue that they have some partial responsibility for what followed.
They also need to communicate better because this was all totally avoidable and is ultimately going to cost them money.
Comments
This should be your signature, @kapu.
I agree. This is two completely different things. I have never seen wiki's or spreadsheet utilities for any game impacted by TOS issues. Game "helpers" are always grey areas and fall under different sets of rules. While I understand your reason for doing this, all it does is hurt people not DB. (and I am not a user of either of these items).
Public profile
Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
For me, it was the lack of clarification from DB, 3 months after they announced they would review Iampicard and other tools.
And then the removal of the discussion, where they support the tool. But no explanation why.
No clarification of what tools are allowed or not.
Community tools are important because this game is getting more and more chore based as time goes on. We now have hints we’ll be able to do extra cadet missions, based on a fixed limit per day (after a failed attempt which would have been expecting serious players to login every 30 minutes). I don’t want more ‘work’ like this to keep up.
I occasionally use the spreadsheet and will miss it. I also use the wiki alot, but I’d support a protest which disabled that too.
I won’t be spending anything in game until either DB put this right (work with IAP developer, if they are still motivated to help), or implement major changes and new features based on the tool and the feedback we’ve been giving them for 3 years.
Given recent developments, I'm really considering dropping STT altogether, and putting my gaming time into Fleet Command instead.
That's neither here nor there. Showing solidarity by removing other useful tools, login or not, is perfectly acceptable and I'm all for it. Remove the wiki, remove other useful tools and it will definitely have an impact on the game.
The sad part is that DB could have stuck to their prior approval of the tool and then ignored complaints about it the same way they ignore complaints about the shuttle issue.
Again, just punishing the players. Does nothing for real support of the tool being reviewed or the way the creator was treated.
Same here.
If people want to support the tool, Flood CS, Flood DB's contact methods, etc. That's were the community needs to focus its support.
I kept a copy so it can easily be reinstated. Unfortunately causing pain for the players is probably one of the only ways to cause pain for DB because if enough players are inconvenienced by not having guides, wikis, etc. removed and the stop playing the game, it hit's DB's bottom line.
Of course DB could easily just quickly give an answer, instead of dragging it on for months, on their verdict for the tool. I can't see where they would have a legitimate problem with the tool because anyone who could modify the tool to cheat could easily just access those same public APIs to cheat without iampicard.
DB needs to stop dragging their feet and just make a ruling. Though, at this point, I wouldn't blame @TekmanRO if he didn't put the tool back up even if DB did rule that it was okay.
The problem is I don't think that helps much either, and only serves to clog CS with more unnecessary tickets that they probably can't even really address, much less solve. I don't think this is really DB's fault, except through inaction and lack of comment. This was a player-generated situation. Unless DB goes out of their way to steer the ship back, it will be up to the players to solve it.
DB simply has to approve the use of iampicard and the problem goes away. If they officially approve it, it wouldn't matter how much whining and complaining the vocal minority did. The tool could return and all the pressure would be gone for the developer of the tool.
Very true.
I’m not sure that after all the abuse the IAP dev would want to come back. If he’s been doxxed and threatened then it could even be a police matter at this point (and I hope they get the *%#!).
I support both your choice and that of the original thread author. Disruptor Beam needs to wake up and actually engage with their community in meaningful ways.
I'm fairly certain that this is a case of someone high enough up to make a decision not bothering to make a decision. Management in any company often has that person who is midway or higher up the food chain who delights in leaving people twisting in the wind on important company issues while they focus on the number of swizzle sticks to order for the company Keurig.
The problem was crappy people being crappy. I think this is one of those "this is why we can't have nice things situations." This is the way it is now, I'm afraid.
It's very likely the harassment wasn't in either forum but in private communication via his website or other means. To my knowledge, TekmanRo provided no concrete evidence, so we only have his allegations.
Either way, DB's silence and inaction on this matter is my broader concern. People put in many hours into their tools and apps to help make some of the daily irritations of this game a bit more bearable. It is nice to have some knowledge of where the "line" is and if it has been crossed.
You know what, the players need punished. The players give their money to DB and not to all the folk that provide help and resources to the community. Until the players force DB to change their ways, the community should stop helping the players.
Unfortunately leaving the players to solve the problem is the ONLY solution. For 3 years DV has refused to get involved and has consistently provided terrible CS. TPTB simply do not value the player base, seeing them only as wallets on a spreadsheet.
Unfortunately, removing the tools that streamline and make the game playable reveals the shortcomings of the game. And reducing player spending and satisfaction are the only things that will get through to DB and help make the game better.
If there was no PLAYER made Wiki, and PLAYER made spreadsheets, and PLAYER made 3rd party chat servers and PLAYER made bots, this game would truly be a tedious slog, and I highly suspect no longer even in service, and absolutely MUCH less profitable.
I know for a fact that at least half of my fleet would no longer be in this game if it wasn't for Discord and PLAYER (even fleet only) made resources.
I never bought anything other than the monthly card however the changes over the last few days have made me question why I would keep that tiny tiny support up when DB have been so quiet. I may just play out my current monthly and stop it until something changes.
The Guardians of Tomorrow
Protecting the Galaxy's Future from itself
This is a Star Trek community. We need to do better to earn that name.
And DB can help us in this regard by making a statement that acknowledges the issues and their role in them. This latest conflagration is directly attributable to DB deleting the thread relating to the app. They need to own the fact that in the absence of genuine communication on the issue that they have some partial responsibility for what followed.
They also need to communicate better because this was all totally avoidable and is ultimately going to cost them money.