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Timelines' Originals Collection

Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 2019 in The Bridge
A couple quick questions for @Shan or @SunshineRiker:

We've long speculated about the canon nature of Agent Janeway, who has the Section 31 trait despite nothing in canon to link her with that organization. Seeing as she's not in this collection, could we get an explanation for the S31 trait?

How come Dancing Uhura is in here? Isn't she just straight up out of "Plato's Stepchildren"?

Why is Prince Bashir absent? (Credit to @[DDF] Marge Gunderson for bringing this up below.)

Otherwise, thanks and kudos to the team for this collection!
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Comments

  • Knight RangerKnight Ranger ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    There's speculation in another thread that Uhura's classed as an original because she didn't dance in Plato's Stepchildren, which I'd understand. The Janeway S31 thing though is shifty, I agree. Unless of course Seven was onto something in The Voyager Conspiracy...
    Level 99. Latest Immortal (957): Chancellor Gowron - October 2023.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    A couple quick questions for @Shan or @SunshineRiker:

    We've long speculated about the canon nature of Agent Janeway, who has the Section 31 trait despite nothing in canon to link her with that organization. Seeing as she's not in this collection, could we get an explanation for the S31 trait?

    How come Dancing Uhura is in here? Isn't she just straight up out of "Plato's Stepchildren"?

    Otherwise, thanks and kudos to the team for this collection!

    Uhura does not actually dance in that episode? I think that is why someone speculated somewhere else she is non-canon.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    But Uhura dances in other episodes and in the movie.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    But Uhura dances in other episodes and in the movie.

    Yes. But THAT Uhura does not. I don't know. Maybe we can get an answer. Officially.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gotcha. I haven't seen the episode in a few years and had no recollection of this even being discussed before. I think she was added during a stretch where I was kinda checked out.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Gotcha. I haven't seen the episode in a few years and had no recollection of this even being discussed before. I think she was added during a stretch where I was kinda checked out.

    Most people remember that episode mainly for making television history...



    https://goo.gl/images/uFSVha
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Knight RangerKnight Ranger ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Most people remember that episode mainly for making television history...

    And not much else, given how godawful it was. I even prefer Spock's Brain to PS.
    Level 99. Latest Immortal (957): Chancellor Gowron - October 2023.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm pretty sure Prince Bashir isn't canon either. Also not in the collection.

    Natch! I knew there was something else I meant to question.
    Gotcha. I haven't seen the episode in a few years and had no recollection of this even being discussed before. I think she was added during a stretch where I was kinda checked out.

    Most people remember that episode mainly for making television history...

    https://goo.gl/images/uFSVha

    It has always bothered me that that kiss was non-consensual for either Uhura or Kirk. Plus, of course, it wasn't the first interracial kiss on TV anyway.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    But Uhura dances in other episodes and in the movie.

    Bingo. While the outfit for Dancing Uhura is from Plato’s Stepchildren, dancing actually occurred at least in Mudd’s Women and TFF with vastly different outfits. She’s more canon-ish (?) than some of the others in the collection but still technically non-canon.

    Leaving out Prince Bashir, though...that’s interesting. He definitely qualifies for inclusion here.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm pretty sure Prince Bashir isn't canon either. Also not in the collection.

    Natch! I knew there was something else I meant to question.
    Gotcha. I haven't seen the episode in a few years and had no recollection of this even being discussed before. I think she was added during a stretch where I was kinda checked out.

    Most people remember that episode mainly for making television history...

    https://goo.gl/images/uFSVha

    It has always bothered me that that kiss was non-consensual for either Uhura or Kirk. Plus, of course, it wasn't the first interracial kiss on TV anyway.

    History usually ends up being how people remember it.


    And seems like a lot of people remember wrong:


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television


    I think the Kirk/Uhura one "became" the one because of the popularity of the show.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • I'm hoping that Borganna will be added to the borg and this new collection tomorrow as well.
    We are recruiting for our sister fleet, Mirror Klingon Marauders! Contact me via private message if interested
  • My speculation is DB is trying to say the ones in this collection were Original illustrations done by DB. That would explain why Mirror Picard, Mirror Data, Mirror Inquistor Troi, etc,, aren't in the collections. If you were to argue the graphic novel they are from 'is' canon, then why have Assimilated La Forge in the collection as he's from a novel.

    I to would think Prince Bashir should be included unless he was drawn by a non DB peep.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    HAHAHA! If I had a nickel for every time I read a post proclaiming "I hate these non-canon characters! I'm putting them all out the airlock!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!" :D:D:D

    We haven’t agreed on much these last few days but I’m with you here. It is a little amusing. :smile:
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    HAHAHA! If I had a nickel for every time I read a post proclaiming "I hate these non-canon characters! I'm putting them all out the airlock!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!" :D:D:D

    We haven’t agreed on much these last few days but I’m with you here. It is a little amusing. :smile:

    And we must disagree. It's a LOT amusing!!!!!!!!!
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    We consider Agent Janeway to be a canon character, BUT you rightly point out an issue with the Section 31 affiliation. I've put in a bug to have Section 31 removed from that crew.

    She has Section 31 due to storyline stuff from the event where she was introduced. Also not sure how her in that costume with the MP40 is any different than Uhura dancing.

  • Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just my point zero two dollars' worth, but I think the non-canon characters are the best, providing the leap needed to accept them isn't too tremendous.

    For example: Mirror Lean-Luc Picard, makes perfect sense; while he does not actually ever appear, if the mirror universe existed before TNG and after TNG, and since the mirror universe seems to "mirror" our universe, it is hard to argue that a mirror version of Picard did not exist, he merely did not appear in a show or movie.

    That being said, were there to be a non-canon crew like Preschool Teacher Borg Queen that simply makes no sense at all, those are the ones I think people struggle with.

    I think this new collection is a hoot, and I personally hope it means that down the road we can expect more creative and exciting non-canon characters!
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    We consider Agent Janeway to be a canon character, BUT you rightly point out an issue with the Section 31 affiliation. I've put in a bug to have Section 31 removed from that crew.

    She has Section 31 due to storyline stuff from the event where she was introduced. Also not sure how her in that costume with the MP40 is any different than Uhura dancing.

    If there is a reason for it, should not be removed.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • CloneClone ✭✭✭
    Please add Yelgrun to the non-canon list of DB Originals. He has the Musician trait, which Vorta were genetically engineered not to have, and therefore cannot be a canonical Vorta from the show. This is the same problem as giving the Sec31 trait to Janeway, although Janeway was explained in the event.
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    Could we add wrong actor Saavik to the list of non-canon as well please?

    If you’re going to claim that Dancing Uhura is a DB original based on just her pose (the outfit seems to fit the TOS episode 100%), then I think a full on face swap should count as “originality” too.

    LOL, forgot about that one.
  • Could we add wrong actor Saavik to the list of non-canon as well please?

    If you’re going to claim that Dancing Uhura is a DB original based on just her pose (the outfit seems to fit the TOS episode 100%), then I think a full on face swap should count as “originality” too.

    LOL, forgot about that one.

    In fairness, the artwork is clearly Kirstie Alley's face. She was Saavik in Wrath of Khan. They way I see it, they wanted to have ONE Saavik, and the part was played by TWO different women. So the compromise was Alley's face on Curtis' body. :p
  • Cranky (SC) Cranky (SC) ✭✭✭✭✭
    Could we add wrong actor Saavik to the list of non-canon as well please?

    If you’re going to claim that Dancing Uhura is a DB original based on just her pose (the outfit seems to fit the TOS episode 100%), then I think a full on face swap should count as “originality” too.

    LOL, forgot about that one.

    In fairness, the artwork is clearly Kirstie Alley's face. She was Saavik in Wrath of Khan. They way I see it, they wanted to have ONE Saavik, and the part was played by TWO different women. So the compromise was Alley's face on Curtis' body. :p

    That’s more original than Dancing Uhura in my opinion.

  • Mirror CartmanMirror Cartman ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice trolling by DB. Give us a non-cannon achievement to wind up the die hard Trekkies.
    Looks like the Uhura question was answered.
    We consider Agent Janeway to be a canon character, BUT you rightly point out an issue with the Section 31 affiliation. I've put in a bug to have Section 31 removed from that crew.

    A few days before a fraction event where section 31 crew are bonus crew. Expect fireworks if the trait is removed before the event.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like the Uhura question was answered.

    Prince Bashir looks to be a mistake. I'll inform the developers.

    We consider Agent Janeway to be a canon character, BUT you rightly point out an issue with the Section 31 affiliation. I've put in a bug to have Section 31 removed from that crew.
    So now Agent Janeway won't have section 31 trait right before an event where section 31 people give bonus? Poorly done Travis.
    Let’s fly!
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Come to think of it, I've always kinda wondered why KDF Alexander doesn't have the Augment trait, or why there isn't an Augment Alexander, given that Episode 1 is about him getting some work done. Also, there has been reference made to Emperor Spock and Empress Sela. I'd be down for seeing them get original designs and stop using Mirror Spock and Commander Sela.
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