I have a pretty diverse Gauntlet crew, owning 7 out of the 15 top pair cards. Discounting the odd 45% crit bonus for Mirror Picard, Kahless has made every Gauntlet pretty much since he was introduced to the game. I am pretty confident that you will at no point regret investing that Honor into him, even if it were for Gauntlet alone.
Have they ever changed the honor lineup? I got the sense it has been Crusher and Kahless since it’s inception.
This is something i keep in mind rather than cites or beholds. When they were going to add bev, they originally said that kahless would be removed and “someone” would take his place. After many complaints they decided to add her instead of replace. There have been alot of conv from players lately about bringing new honor hall crew. So you never really know. Kahless has been there since honor hall introduction, and bev just over a year. There is no telling if anything is in the works, or if they will add or replace crew. Last time a change was made they did give us about 4-6 wk notice. That was the complaint timeframe that allowed for kahless to remain instead of replace. But since he has been there so long now idk if that will work again.
I have Kahless, but not Captain Beverly. I got him almost two years ago shortly after he first came out. He was a bigger comparative advantage back then.
For Gauntlet: Like others here, Kahless makes almost all my gauntlets, and he's very useful both for offense and defense there. I only miss having Beverly when it's a medical gauntlet and other strong med crew don't have a bonus (like Sulan). FYI, I have won my gauntlet maybe 10 times since it was introduced. I would do better if I were able to time my rounds better and sign more consistently just before it ends for a final push.
For Voyages: I've wished I had Captain Beverly or Reverend Phlox more than once. I do have Age of Sail Beverly, but only at 1/5, and her stats wouldn't be as strong as those other two. But right now there are other crew in my quarters more deserving of citations than AoS Beverly, so it will be a long time before this skill combo (MED, CMD, DIP) ends up strong on voyages for me. It's a hole in my lineup for sure. For Kahless, I've never cited him up as his stats don't really justify it compared to others when it comes to versatility with Voyages and Shuttles/Events. I have enough other top Voyagers fully fused with similar skills --High Roller Sisko, Mirror Picard, and many at 4/5 (Kortar, Kol, Thrax, Zhian'tara Odo, Operative Leland). FYI, I routinely make 8 hour voyages without refueling, I've only made a 10 hour voyage once, and it was when CMD and DIP were the top skills -- so I didn't need Kahless to do that.
I don't have Kahless and don't miss him. Between Chancellor Gowron for DIP and Enabran Tain (or even Mirror Picard) for CMD, I've never felt like his absence was hurting me in there.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
I don't have Kahless and don't miss him. Between Chancellor Gowron for DIP and Enabran Tain (or even Mirror Picard) for CMD, I've never felt like his absence was hurting me in there.
But most people do not have Chancellor Gowron or Enabran Tain. Looking at Tain's stats it looks like he would get routinely beaten by Kahless. Do you find he does well against Kahless and Mirror Picard?
I'm gonna chime in here with the 'yay' to kahless camp.
Also taking into account that you are an early/mid point gamer, he makes even more sense. At this point it's unlikely that you will have enough honor to cite either to 5/5 (nor would you want to). If your focus is voyage crew, then you have a ton of other crew (especially med) which would be better than bev (warship ema, Dr pulaski, defensive phlox etc.) I'm assuming you missed both the cornwell and darth bashir megas? They provided some pretty beefy med voyage stats. Additionally if you do get kahless up to a 5/5, he's #3 CMD voyage score for a 3 stat crew and he has a top 20 total combined voyage score. Bev is none of these.
So the comparison is for a FE 1/5 to go into the gauntlet. Which Kahless wins hands down. The only time he doesn't make it onto a gauntlet is when mirror picard gets a freakish 45% buff. In terms of med gauntlet, Bev will get over taken by defensive phlox or sulan at the 5* level and there are also a few 4* that give her a run for her money (eg mirror phlox, doc Bev, nurse garland and antaak). I wouldn't consider either for voyage at 1/5 cus there are a bunch of 4* who would full up the stat gaps to get you to 8h.
As much as the gauntlet is a RNG game and most likely doesn't pay out, it's the only place where you can get the gauntlet exclusive crew which are beasts (locutus, guinan, caretaker, armus) and they are recurring now so it makes sense to do well in the gauntlet.
A couple of other points
- 110% buy citations over begolds. It's insanely better to be focused on good crew than risk Crap crew. This will help alleviate the crew slots issue. You don't want your slots clogged up with useless 1/5s
- in terms of honor harvesting, I run regular 8h runs with the occasional 10h 1-2x a week + clear all my dailies + paid campaign. This gets me about 55-60k per month (so 1 cite per month). Add that to the cite you get from the paid campaign and you are getting 2 cites per month (or the equivalent to a 5/5 every 2 months)
My advice is to get kahless asap and then stock up on honor until you get one of the crew in your wishlist and cite them to 5/5. Within a year you will have a minimum of 12 immortalized 5*.
I don't have Kahless and don't miss him. Between Chancellor Gowron for DIP and Enabran Tain (or even Mirror Picard) for CMD, I've never felt like his absence was hurting me in there.
He'd probably be nice to have all said, but I haven't felt the lack and routinely get top 1-5 (with plenty of 1st's) without him so haven't really felt the lack.
I have neither card, and likely never will. To me, it's a question of honor - specifically the 100K needed to buy each card. I'd rather add stars to 2 cards rather than just acquire 1 card. Just my POV.
On a separate note... perhaps it's better to table this question for the moment. The OP mentioned having Gladiator Spock at 5/5 but not yet FE, and having Surak but not having leveled him much. In other advice threads, most of us would generally offer commentary along the lines of "focus on 1-2 cards at a time and get them to level 100 before moving on to the next card". Why worry about acquiring Kahless or Cap'n Bev if the OP isn't going to level the card with a degree of urgency? If the card is going to take weeks to FE, then is there really a rush to get it? Just hang onto the honor until you're ready. Or until you decide you really don't need either one.
This isn't a criticism, just an observation. As others have said, there there are no "right" ways to play the game, just different ways. If you think your crew/game will be enhanced by getting one (or both) of the honor hall cards, then that's what you should do. Without regret. They're both good cards, so any choice will be a good one.
Like I was saying, if Kahless has one weakness, it is that he often forgets to check his crit chance before he rolls. He was allegedly 25% in this fight against another 25%.
I just wanted to highlight another key criteria I use for crew decisions that I don't think I saw emphasized when I skimmed through these two pages, which is: Do you even like Captain Beverly Picard or Kahless the Unforgettable, @calsnowskier?
If your mid game with still a lot to level I would question why add to the pile, however that aside, it's highly probable that you may be hurting on MED options, more so than you are for CMD options, but without knowing more about who is in your roster, I couldn't make a further judgement on this.
That being said there are less MED skill orientated combinations out there in general so I'd probably still go with Beverly before Kahless and this comes form someone who has Rev Phlox in their roster.
[was on Sabbatical/Hiatus] Currently a trialist at Galaxy SquadronSTAY SAFE and KBO
I purchased Kahless and it was a good investment for gauntlet. Crusher is encountered rarely in gauntlet, and I am planning to cite Rev Phlox for better voyage value.
I don't have Kahless and don't miss him. Between Chancellor Gowron for DIP and Enabran Tain (or even Mirror Picard) for CMD, I've never felt like his absence was hurting me in there.
But most people do not have Chancellor Gowron or Enabran Tain. Looking at Tain's stats it looks like he would get routinely beaten by Kahless. Do you find he does well against Kahless and Mirror Picard?
I don't recall ever going up against Kahless with Tain, actually. (He's simply not used that frequently in there, since I often don't bother with front-loading CMD in my Gauntlets.) Just mentioning that I have that skill covered well, if needed. But I have gone head-to-head with Gowron against Kahless numerous times, and the Chancellor has done quite well. As far as not many people having him, I would think there'd be quite a few who did — I may not see him as often as Kahless, but he still shows up a fair amount. (Tain seems to be a lot more rare, although obviously a vast majority have M Picard.)
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
I don't have Kahless and don't miss him. Between Chancellor Gowron for DIP and Enabran Tain (or even Mirror Picard) for CMD, I've never felt like his absence was hurting me in there.
But most people do not have Chancellor Gowron or Enabran Tain. Looking at Tain's stats it looks like he would get routinely beaten by Kahless. Do you find he does well against Kahless and Mirror Picard?
When Kahless is at 45-65% crit bonus, it’s better to avoid him (like anyone at 45-65%). After that, it really comes down to what the traits are in any given gauntlet. When Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev are at 25% and Kahless isn’t, he is indeed quite beatable. At even strength, it’s a bit more of a crapshoot...but do I really want to spend 100,000 honor to win one or maybe two extra gauntlet battles a couple of times every week or two? No. Where I’m at - loaded with all of the other COM gauntlet aces - buying Kahless for the gauntlet would be a pretty dumb use of honor.
If I didn’t say it before, I’ll say it now: his voyage usefulness does offer a legit case for mid- and late-game players to get him. Whether you spend your honor to fix your worst-performing skill combos or to further improve your best skill combos is a matter of personal choice. Someone mentioned earlier here or in the similar Ready Room topic that trying to push for getting all combos slightly beyond 8 hours doesn’t make much sense if you can’t babysit the voyage after the 8 hour dilemma...for those players, who are likely pretty strong on COM/SEC and/or COM/DIP voyages, Kahless might be a pretty good call even despite the high cost of completion.
I don't have Kahless and don't miss him. Between Chancellor Gowron for DIP and Enabran Tain (or even Mirror Picard) for CMD, I've never felt like his absence was hurting me in there.
But most people do not have Chancellor Gowron or Enabran Tain. Looking at Tain's stats it looks like he would get routinely beaten by Kahless. Do you find he does well against Kahless and Mirror Picard?
When Kahless is at 45-65% crit bonus, it’s better to avoid him (like anyone at 45-65%). After that, it really comes down to what the traits are in any given gauntlet. When Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev are at 25% and Kahless isn’t, he is indeed quite beatable. At even strength, it’s a bit more of a crapshoot...but do I really want to spend 100,000 honor to win one or maybe two extra gauntlet battles a couple of times every week or two? No. Where I’m at - loaded with all of the other COM gauntlet aces - buying Kahless for the gauntlet would be a pretty dumb use of honor.
If I didn’t say it before, I’ll say it now: his voyage usefulness does offer a legit case for mid- and late-game players to get him. Whether you spend your honor to fix your worst-performing skill combos or to further improve your best skill combos is a matter of personal choice. Someone mentioned earlier here or in the similar Ready Room topic that trying to push for getting all combos slightly beyond 8 hours doesn’t make much sense if you can’t babysit the voyage after the 8 hour dilemma...for those players, who are likely pretty strong on COM/SEC and/or COM/DIP voyages, Kahless might be a pretty good call even despite the high cost of completion.
I’m with you. I’m not getting Khaless just to win a few more gauntlet rounds. Or 100 extra voyage points. Captain Bev adds so much more to a voyage with MED in it and to me that is way more useful than a gauntlet boost
IMO, Kahless is there for people either late to the game, or those who don't open a million packs. He is a guaranteed option for people wanting to play Gauntlet who might not have other options like "Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev", and those are likely to be newer people who missed out on early run cards, or else people who don't open enough packs to have had a decent shot at randomly getting them.
IMO, Kahless is there for people either late to the game, or those who don't open a million packs. He is a guaranteed option for people wanting to play Gauntlet who might not have other options like "Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev", and those are likely to be newer people who missed out on early run cards, or else people who don't open enough packs to have had a decent shot at randomly getting them.
But Kahless is better than all of those people in gauntlet. Kahless has a proficiency total of 2302, Tain is 1852, Mirror Picard is 1742, Revolutionary Damar is 2013, and Admiral Nechayev is 1855. Kahless has highest Command proficiency and highest Command proficiency average. Mirror Picard gets bonus crit more but at 25% crit bonus chance Kahless can still often beat him at Cmd, Cmd-Sec and Cmd-Dip gauntlet rounds. Even when Mirror Picard has 45% to Kahless 5% Kahless still beats him at Cmd-Dip. Mirror Picard's third skill proficiency, Science is so small and weak. And do not forget that although Mirror Picard often has a 25% crit bonus chance to Kahless' 5% crit chance that I have had Kahless many times at 65% crit binus chance and never remember having Mirror Picard at 65%.
IMO, Kahless is there for people either late to the game, or those who don't open a million packs. He is a guaranteed option for people wanting to play Gauntlet who might not have other options like "Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev", and those are likely to be newer people who missed out on early run cards, or else people who don't open enough packs to have had a decent shot at randomly getting them.
But Kahless is better than all of those people in gauntlet. Kahless has a proficiency total of 2302, Tain is 1852, Mirror Picard is 1742, Revolutionary Damar is 2013, and Admiral Nechayev is 1855. Kahless has highest Command proficiency and highest Command proficiency average. Mirror Picard gets bonus crit more but at 25% crit bonus chance Kahless can still often beat him at Cmd, Cmd-Sec and Cmd-Dip gauntlet rounds. Even when Mirror Picard has 45% to Kahless 5% Kahless still beats him at Cmd-Dip. Mirror Picard's third skill proficiency, Science is so small and weak. And do not forget that although Mirror Picard often has a 25% crit bonus chance to Kahless' 5% crit chance that I have had Kahless many times at 65% crit binus chance and never remember having Mirror Picard at 65%.
Let’s really think about what that gets you: a slightly higher success rate against opponents with the same crit chance. Without dilithium revives (which I don’t think make any financial sense unless you’re pushing hard for the gauntlet rank achievement), how many extra victories does that really buy you in a given gauntlet? Because the luck required to keep beating Mirror Picard walls goes up dramatically with your fatigue level. One per four hours is my guess, and that’s dependent on matching the right skills for each battle. Maybe more if you don’t use the gauntlet as a merit farm. That also assumes you’re running battles as soon as your crew has recovered, so on a daily basis it’s likely to be less than six additional victories. 100k honor seems an awful steep price for that.
If I didn’t say it before, I’ll say it now: his voyage usefulness does offer a legit case for mid- and late-game players to get him. Whether you spend your honor to fix your worst-performing skill combos or to further improve your best skill combos is a matter of personal choice. Someone mentioned earlier here or in the similar Ready Room topic that trying to push for getting all combos slightly beyond 8 hours doesn’t make much sense if you can’t babysit the voyage after the 8 hour dilemma...for those players, who are likely pretty strong on COM/SEC and/or COM/DIP voyages, Kahless might be a pretty good call even despite the high cost of completion.
I think that pushing to get all skill combos past 8 hours is exactly what someone who can't babysit should do. Once you know you will pass 8 you don't have to worry about babysitting until you reach 8. If you're not sure if you'll end up at 7:30 or 8:10 then you need to babysit all your voyages between 6 and 8.
Once all your skill combos are past 8, then you can decide what to prioritize between improving your weakest or making your best combo strong enough for 10.
Gonna jump in about Enabran Tain since I have him. Even after Starbase & Collection bonuses, his DIP & SEC are negligible, and his CMD roll is so wide with such a low minimum that I don't even use him in the Gauntlet:
IMO, Kahless is there for people either late to the game, or those who don't open a million packs. He is a guaranteed option for people wanting to play Gauntlet who might not have other options like "Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev", and those are likely to be newer people who missed out on early run cards, or else people who don't open enough packs to have had a decent shot at randomly getting them.
But Kahless is better than all of those people in gauntlet. Kahless has a proficiency total of 2302, Tain is 1852, Mirror Picard is 1742, Revolutionary Damar is 2013, and Admiral Nechayev is 1855. Kahless has highest Command proficiency and highest Command proficiency average. Mirror Picard gets bonus crit more but at 25% crit bonus chance Kahless can still often beat him at Cmd, Cmd-Sec and Cmd-Dip gauntlet rounds. Even when Mirror Picard has 45% to Kahless 5% Kahless still beats him at Cmd-Dip. Mirror Picard's third skill proficiency, Science is so small and weak. And do not forget that although Mirror Picard often has a 25% crit bonus chance to Kahless' 5% crit chance that I have had Kahless many times at 65% crit binus chance and never remember having Mirror Picard at 65%.
Let’s really think about what that gets you: a slightly higher success rate against opponents with the same crit chance. Without dilithium revives (which I don’t think make any financial sense unless you’re pushing hard for the gauntlet rank achievement), how many extra victories does that really buy you in a given gauntlet? Because the luck required to keep beating Mirror Picard walls goes up dramatically with your fatigue level. One per four hours is my guess, and that’s dependent on matching the right skills for each battle. Maybe more if you don’t use the gauntlet as a merit farm. That also assumes you’re running battles as soon as your crew has recovered, so on a daily basis it’s likely to be less than six additional victories. 100k honor seems an awful steep price for that.
I get more wins than that from him a day and I routinely beat 25% crit Mirror Picards with my 5% crit Kahless. Also, once or twice a month Kahless has 65% crit and about five times he is 25%. But even if it is just six additional victories, with timing and hitting high point people those 6 victories could be 480 points a day which is more than most get a round. Further, even if it were only a "slightly higher success rate against opponents" like you claim a slightly higher chance is all the difference when others all have the same crew. Slightly higher chances are cumulative and make huge differences in the long run. You can use Kahless in every gauntlet every day for as long as the game runs. Don't forget that in gauntlet you can win many legendaries. You cannot in voyages. Gauntlet is better and every and any edge in gauntlet is worth it. I have won many legendaries in gauntlets using Kahless. And if you want to lvl up Kahless he is very good in voyages at 5/5. He is even good in voyages at 1/5. He is also been event crew in the Klingon events. Kahless is definitely worth the 100k.
IMO, Kahless is there for people either late to the game, or those who don't open a million packs. He is a guaranteed option for people wanting to play Gauntlet who might not have other options like "Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev", and those are likely to be newer people who missed out on early run cards, or else people who don't open enough packs to have had a decent shot at randomly getting them.
But Kahless is better than all of those people in gauntlet. Kahless has a proficiency total of 2302, Tain is 1852, Mirror Picard is 1742, Revolutionary Damar is 2013, and Admiral Nechayev is 1855. Kahless has highest Command proficiency and highest Command proficiency average. Mirror Picard gets bonus crit more but at 25% crit bonus chance Kahless can still often beat him at Cmd, Cmd-Sec and Cmd-Dip gauntlet rounds. Even when Mirror Picard has 45% to Kahless 5% Kahless still beats him at Cmd-Dip. Mirror Picard's third skill proficiency, Science is so small and weak. And do not forget that although Mirror Picard often has a 25% crit bonus chance to Kahless' 5% crit chance that I have had Kahless many times at 65% crit binus chance and never remember having Mirror Picard at 65%.
Let’s really think about what that gets you: a slightly higher success rate against opponents with the same crit chance. Without dilithium revives (which I don’t think make any financial sense unless you’re pushing hard for the gauntlet rank achievement), how many extra victories does that really buy you in a given gauntlet? Because the luck required to keep beating Mirror Picard walls goes up dramatically with your fatigue level. One per four hours is my guess, and that’s dependent on matching the right skills for each battle. Maybe more if you don’t use the gauntlet as a merit farm. That also assumes you’re running battles as soon as your crew has recovered, so on a daily basis it’s likely to be less than six additional victories. 100k honor seems an awful steep price for that.
I get more wins than that from him a day and I routinely beat 25% crit Mirror Picards with my 5% crit Kahless. Also, once or twice a month Kahless has 65% crit and about five times he is 25%. But even if it is just six additional victories, with timing and hitting high point people those 6 victories could be 480 points a day which is more than most get a round. Further, even if it were only a "slightly higher success rate against opponents" like you claim a slightly higher chance is all the difference when others all have the same crew. Slightly higher chances are cumulative and make huge differences in the long run. You can use Kahless in every gauntlet every day for as long as the game runs. Don't forget that in gauntlet you can win many legendaries. You cannot in voyages. Gauntlet is better and every and any edge in gauntlet is worth it. I have won many legendaries in gauntlets using Kahless. And if you want to lvl up Kahless he is very good in voyages at 5/5. He is even good in voyages at 1/5. He is also been event crew in the Klingon events. Kahless is definitely worth the 100k.
This is the first time I can think of where someone said the gauntlet was better than voyages and actually meant it. And if we go back a bit, I did say that Kahless can absolutely have value as a voyager...I just remain unconvinced that his voyage utility pales in comparison to a few extra gauntlet battle wins every day.
IMO, Kahless is there for people either late to the game, or those who don't open a million packs. He is a guaranteed option for people wanting to play Gauntlet who might not have other options like "Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev", and those are likely to be newer people who missed out on early run cards, or else people who don't open enough packs to have had a decent shot at randomly getting them.
But Kahless is better than all of those people in gauntlet. Kahless has a proficiency total of 2302, Tain is 1852, Mirror Picard is 1742, Revolutionary Damar is 2013, and Admiral Nechayev is 1855. Kahless has highest Command proficiency and highest Command proficiency average. Mirror Picard gets bonus crit more but at 25% crit bonus chance Kahless can still often beat him at Cmd, Cmd-Sec and Cmd-Dip gauntlet rounds. Even when Mirror Picard has 45% to Kahless 5% Kahless still beats him at Cmd-Dip. Mirror Picard's third skill proficiency, Science is so small and weak. And do not forget that although Mirror Picard often has a 25% crit bonus chance to Kahless' 5% crit chance that I have had Kahless many times at 65% crit binus chance and never remember having Mirror Picard at 65%.
Let’s really think about what that gets you: a slightly higher success rate against opponents with the same crit chance. Without dilithium revives (which I don’t think make any financial sense unless you’re pushing hard for the gauntlet rank achievement), how many extra victories does that really buy you in a given gauntlet? Because the luck required to keep beating Mirror Picard walls goes up dramatically with your fatigue level. One per four hours is my guess, and that’s dependent on matching the right skills for each battle. Maybe more if you don’t use the gauntlet as a merit farm. That also assumes you’re running battles as soon as your crew has recovered, so on a daily basis it’s likely to be less than six additional victories. 100k honor seems an awful steep price for that.
I get more wins than that from him a day and I routinely beat 25% crit Mirror Picards with my 5% crit Kahless. Also, once or twice a month Kahless has 65% crit and about five times he is 25%. But even if it is just six additional victories, with timing and hitting high point people those 6 victories could be 480 points a day which is more than most get a round. Further, even if it were only a "slightly higher success rate against opponents" like you claim a slightly higher chance is all the difference when others all have the same crew. Slightly higher chances are cumulative and make huge differences in the long run. You can use Kahless in every gauntlet every day for as long as the game runs. Don't forget that in gauntlet you can win many legendaries. You cannot in voyages. Gauntlet is better and every and any edge in gauntlet is worth it. I have won many legendaries in gauntlets using Kahless. And if you want to lvl up Kahless he is very good in voyages at 5/5. He is even good in voyages at 1/5. He is also been event crew in the Klingon events. Kahless is definitely worth the 100k.
This is the first time I can think of where someone said the gauntlet was better than voyages and actually meant it. And if we go back a bit, I did say that Kahless can absolutely have value as a voyager...I just remain unconvinced that his voyage utility pales in comparison to a few extra gauntlet battle wins every day.
Yep, Gauntlets give legendaries, Voyages don't. I have gotten 6 caretakers, 8 legendary guinans, 5 armus, and 2 locutus from gauntlets. So 21 legendaries that have allowed me to build up a 5/5 caretaker I use in almost every voyage, a 5/5 guinan which I use quite a bit and a 5/5 armus which does great on com-sci voyages. As a caveat though I will say I do gauntlets every day except skirmish daysusually finish top 3, and gauntlets have a huge amount of luck on if and when legenadries drop. The increase in odds of drops db put in has helped me get about 7 legendaries in the last couple months it has been implemented. I like voyages too but voyages are mainly about getting chrons to compete in events to maybe win a 1/5 legendary and for finishing off old super rares. Both are good but I believe gauntlet gives more and gauntlet legendaries can then be used to increase your voyages whereas voyage super rares rarely help with gauntlet. Kahless has helped me out tremendously in gauntlets though his greatest use was before Mirror Picard came along. I like Kahless and think him still quite helpful but as with anything in forum this is my opinion and others can take it or not as they will. Lots of different play styles and lots of different wants and needs people have. I wish everyone a good day and good luck in the event tomorrow.
It should be noted though that average is less than 1 a month or circa 1.4 legendaries per month if we are are taking the 7 in the last 5 months - they are also restrictive to only 4 different legendaries. Now if you compare that to voyages (if hitting 8 hr mark) then you'd be gaining circa 800-1000 honor per voyage on average which contribute greatly to either a citation, Legendary pull, or honor exclusive crew.
Your voyages also secure your ability to level and compete in events on a regular basis. If there are already 2 galaxy or hybrid with galaxy phase within a month then those voyages are contributing to at least earning 2 legendaries per month not to mention power levelling them.
I think it's a bit of a fruitless task to compare which one is better because gauntlet provides something exclusive, but Voyages provide an air of exclusivity as well, and it has always been a priority for me because it has secured the right crew either obtaining them through events or voyages and thus be able to compete competently in gauntlet in the first place.
[was on Sabbatical/Hiatus] Currently a trialist at Galaxy SquadronSTAY SAFE and KBO
It should be noted though that average is less than 1 a month or circa 1.4 legendaries per month if we are are taking the 7 in the last 5 months - they are also restrictive to only 4 different legendaries. Now if you compare that to voyages (if hitting 8 hr mark) then you'd be gaining circa 800-1000 honor per voyage on average which contribute greatly to either a citation, Legendary pull, or honor exclusive crew.
Your voyages also secure your ability to level and compete in events on a regular basis. If there are already 2 galaxy or hybrid with galaxy phase within a month then those voyages are contributing to at least earning 2 legendaries per month not to mention power levelling them.
I think it's a bit of a fruitless task to compare which one is better because gauntlet provides something exclusive, but Voyages provide an air of exclusivity as well, and it has always been a priority for me because it has secured the right crew either obtaining them through events or voyages and thus be able to compete competently in gauntlet in the first place.
The update for gauntlet was in the beginning of February so it has been a little less than four months. I got another Armus today so that is 8 in less than four months which averages a little more than 2 a month. I think 800-1000 honor on average for voyages is too high even if you count the crew you get and airlock for honor. I do not think even my 10 hr voyages average that high. But it is a good point that voyages give honor and that honor can be used to get citations for legendary crew. Both are good and I enjoy both. For me gauntlets have helped more than voyages because the gauntlet legendaries I earned in gauntlet are so helpful in my gauntlets and voyages. My voyages only do so well because of the addition of these gauntlet legendaries whereas the voyages have not increased my gauntlets.
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This is something i keep in mind rather than cites or beholds. When they were going to add bev, they originally said that kahless would be removed and “someone” would take his place. After many complaints they decided to add her instead of replace. There have been alot of conv from players lately about bringing new honor hall crew. So you never really know. Kahless has been there since honor hall introduction, and bev just over a year. There is no telling if anything is in the works, or if they will add or replace crew. Last time a change was made they did give us about 4-6 wk notice. That was the complaint timeframe that allowed for kahless to remain instead of replace. But since he has been there so long now idk if that will work again.
I have Kahless, but not Captain Beverly. I got him almost two years ago shortly after he first came out. He was a bigger comparative advantage back then.
For Gauntlet: Like others here, Kahless makes almost all my gauntlets, and he's very useful both for offense and defense there. I only miss having Beverly when it's a medical gauntlet and other strong med crew don't have a bonus (like Sulan). FYI, I have won my gauntlet maybe 10 times since it was introduced. I would do better if I were able to time my rounds better and sign more consistently just before it ends for a final push.
For Voyages: I've wished I had Captain Beverly or Reverend Phlox more than once. I do have Age of Sail Beverly, but only at 1/5, and her stats wouldn't be as strong as those other two. But right now there are other crew in my quarters more deserving of citations than AoS Beverly, so it will be a long time before this skill combo (MED, CMD, DIP) ends up strong on voyages for me. It's a hole in my lineup for sure. For Kahless, I've never cited him up as his stats don't really justify it compared to others when it comes to versatility with Voyages and Shuttles/Events. I have enough other top Voyagers fully fused with similar skills --High Roller Sisko, Mirror Picard, and many at 4/5 (Kortar, Kol, Thrax, Zhian'tara Odo, Operative Leland). FYI, I routinely make 8 hour voyages without refueling, I've only made a 10 hour voyage once, and it was when CMD and DIP were the top skills -- so I didn't need Kahless to do that.
Captain Level: 95
VIP Level: 12
Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
Also taking into account that you are an early/mid point gamer, he makes even more sense. At this point it's unlikely that you will have enough honor to cite either to 5/5 (nor would you want to). If your focus is voyage crew, then you have a ton of other crew (especially med) which would be better than bev (warship ema, Dr pulaski, defensive phlox etc.) I'm assuming you missed both the cornwell and darth bashir megas? They provided some pretty beefy med voyage stats. Additionally if you do get kahless up to a 5/5, he's #3 CMD voyage score for a 3 stat crew and he has a top 20 total combined voyage score. Bev is none of these.
So the comparison is for a FE 1/5 to go into the gauntlet. Which Kahless wins hands down. The only time he doesn't make it onto a gauntlet is when mirror picard gets a freakish 45% buff. In terms of med gauntlet, Bev will get over taken by defensive phlox or sulan at the 5* level and there are also a few 4* that give her a run for her money (eg mirror phlox, doc Bev, nurse garland and antaak). I wouldn't consider either for voyage at 1/5 cus there are a bunch of 4* who would full up the stat gaps to get you to 8h.
As much as the gauntlet is a RNG game and most likely doesn't pay out, it's the only place where you can get the gauntlet exclusive crew which are beasts (locutus, guinan, caretaker, armus) and they are recurring now so it makes sense to do well in the gauntlet.
A couple of other points
- 110% buy citations over begolds. It's insanely better to be focused on good crew than risk Crap crew. This will help alleviate the crew slots issue. You don't want your slots clogged up with useless 1/5s
- in terms of honor harvesting, I run regular 8h runs with the occasional 10h 1-2x a week + clear all my dailies + paid campaign. This gets me about 55-60k per month (so 1 cite per month). Add that to the cite you get from the paid campaign and you are getting 2 cites per month (or the equivalent to a 5/5 every 2 months)
My advice is to get kahless asap and then stock up on honor until you get one of the crew in your wishlist and cite them to 5/5. Within a year you will have a minimum of 12 immortalized 5*.
He'd probably be nice to have all said, but I haven't felt the lack and routinely get top 1-5 (with plenty of 1st's) without him so haven't really felt the lack.
On a separate note... perhaps it's better to table this question for the moment. The OP mentioned having Gladiator Spock at 5/5 but not yet FE, and having Surak but not having leveled him much. In other advice threads, most of us would generally offer commentary along the lines of "focus on 1-2 cards at a time and get them to level 100 before moving on to the next card". Why worry about acquiring Kahless or Cap'n Bev if the OP isn't going to level the card with a degree of urgency? If the card is going to take weeks to FE, then is there really a rush to get it? Just hang onto the honor until you're ready. Or until you decide you really don't need either one.
This isn't a criticism, just an observation. As others have said, there there are no "right" ways to play the game, just different ways. If you think your crew/game will be enhanced by getting one (or both) of the honor hall cards, then that's what you should do. Without regret. They're both good cards, so any choice will be a good one.
That being said there are less MED skill orientated combinations out there in general so I'd probably still go with Beverly before Kahless and this comes form someone who has Rev Phlox in their roster.
I don't recall ever going up against Kahless with Tain, actually. (He's simply not used that frequently in there, since I often don't bother with front-loading CMD in my Gauntlets.) Just mentioning that I have that skill covered well, if needed. But I have gone head-to-head with Gowron against Kahless numerous times, and the Chancellor has done quite well. As far as not many people having him, I would think there'd be quite a few who did — I may not see him as often as Kahless, but he still shows up a fair amount. (Tain seems to be a lot more rare, although obviously a vast majority have M Picard.)
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
When Kahless is at 45-65% crit bonus, it’s better to avoid him (like anyone at 45-65%). After that, it really comes down to what the traits are in any given gauntlet. When Tain, Mirror Picard, Revolutionary Damar, or even Admiral Nechayev are at 25% and Kahless isn’t, he is indeed quite beatable. At even strength, it’s a bit more of a crapshoot...but do I really want to spend 100,000 honor to win one or maybe two extra gauntlet battles a couple of times every week or two? No. Where I’m at - loaded with all of the other COM gauntlet aces - buying Kahless for the gauntlet would be a pretty dumb use of honor.
If I didn’t say it before, I’ll say it now: his voyage usefulness does offer a legit case for mid- and late-game players to get him. Whether you spend your honor to fix your worst-performing skill combos or to further improve your best skill combos is a matter of personal choice. Someone mentioned earlier here or in the similar Ready Room topic that trying to push for getting all combos slightly beyond 8 hours doesn’t make much sense if you can’t babysit the voyage after the 8 hour dilemma...for those players, who are likely pretty strong on COM/SEC and/or COM/DIP voyages, Kahless might be a pretty good call even despite the high cost of completion.
I’m with you. I’m not getting Khaless just to win a few more gauntlet rounds. Or 100 extra voyage points. Captain Bev adds so much more to a voyage with MED in it and to me that is way more useful than a gauntlet boost
But Kahless is better than all of those people in gauntlet. Kahless has a proficiency total of 2302, Tain is 1852, Mirror Picard is 1742, Revolutionary Damar is 2013, and Admiral Nechayev is 1855. Kahless has highest Command proficiency and highest Command proficiency average. Mirror Picard gets bonus crit more but at 25% crit bonus chance Kahless can still often beat him at Cmd, Cmd-Sec and Cmd-Dip gauntlet rounds. Even when Mirror Picard has 45% to Kahless 5% Kahless still beats him at Cmd-Dip. Mirror Picard's third skill proficiency, Science is so small and weak. And do not forget that although Mirror Picard often has a 25% crit bonus chance to Kahless' 5% crit chance that I have had Kahless many times at 65% crit binus chance and never remember having Mirror Picard at 65%.
Let’s really think about what that gets you: a slightly higher success rate against opponents with the same crit chance. Without dilithium revives (which I don’t think make any financial sense unless you’re pushing hard for the gauntlet rank achievement), how many extra victories does that really buy you in a given gauntlet? Because the luck required to keep beating Mirror Picard walls goes up dramatically with your fatigue level. One per four hours is my guess, and that’s dependent on matching the right skills for each battle. Maybe more if you don’t use the gauntlet as a merit farm. That also assumes you’re running battles as soon as your crew has recovered, so on a daily basis it’s likely to be less than six additional victories. 100k honor seems an awful steep price for that.
I think that pushing to get all skill combos past 8 hours is exactly what someone who can't babysit should do. Once you know you will pass 8 you don't have to worry about babysitting until you reach 8. If you're not sure if you'll end up at 7:30 or 8:10 then you need to babysit all your voyages between 6 and 8.
Once all your skill combos are past 8, then you can decide what to prioritize between improving your weakest or making your best combo strong enough for 10.
CMD (296-844)
DIP (140-341)
SEC (145-321)
I get more wins than that from him a day and I routinely beat 25% crit Mirror Picards with my 5% crit Kahless. Also, once or twice a month Kahless has 65% crit and about five times he is 25%. But even if it is just six additional victories, with timing and hitting high point people those 6 victories could be 480 points a day which is more than most get a round. Further, even if it were only a "slightly higher success rate against opponents" like you claim a slightly higher chance is all the difference when others all have the same crew. Slightly higher chances are cumulative and make huge differences in the long run. You can use Kahless in every gauntlet every day for as long as the game runs. Don't forget that in gauntlet you can win many legendaries. You cannot in voyages. Gauntlet is better and every and any edge in gauntlet is worth it. I have won many legendaries in gauntlets using Kahless. And if you want to lvl up Kahless he is very good in voyages at 5/5. He is even good in voyages at 1/5. He is also been event crew in the Klingon events. Kahless is definitely worth the 100k.
This is the first time I can think of where someone said the gauntlet was better than voyages and actually meant it. And if we go back a bit, I did say that Kahless can absolutely have value as a voyager...I just remain unconvinced that his voyage utility pales in comparison to a few extra gauntlet battle wins every day.
Your voyages also secure your ability to level and compete in events on a regular basis. If there are already 2 galaxy or hybrid with galaxy phase within a month then those voyages are contributing to at least earning 2 legendaries per month not to mention power levelling them.
I think it's a bit of a fruitless task to compare which one is better because gauntlet provides something exclusive, but Voyages provide an air of exclusivity as well, and it has always been a priority for me because it has secured the right crew either obtaining them through events or voyages and thus be able to compete competently in gauntlet in the first place.
However, there's no denying Kahless is a beast in gauntlets. I've kind of lost my steam there, so I haven't been as inclined to pick him up.
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