Ultimately I don't really care either way, so convince me, why do I need a virtually identical second set of the same crew that will presumably have the same traits/skills/etc?
Playing Devils Advocate - why do you presume that? If crew have differing stats according to episode, then surely from a totally different reality you can have different ones? Does Commander Spock match Labourer Spock? Same series character. You have some overlap, but I'm assuming you have the former frozen rather active?
The Kelvinverse Kirk is introduced to us at a point much earlier than Prime Kirk was, he's a much different character with the death of his father radically altering his timeline. Presumably he was never on Tarsus IV under Kodos, never encountered the attack on the Farragut by the cloud creature.
And the shallow, arrogant, daddy-issues Kirk we see in ST09 has been replaced by a more self-assured, philosophical one by Beyond.
Plenty of scope for cards, different from the ones we already have.
I'll repeat for those in the back who might have missed it, but the better metric to compare films across different generations is ticket sales, not revenue generated. No matter how you account for inflation, it will never be as apples-to-apples as straight up tickets sold.
Does ticket sales account for population growth? If not, then we still aren't talking apples to apples. Not that I disagree with the premise, only that it should a ratio or percentage of population to paint a more clear picture.
I stopped in to see if this turned into a Kelvin vs Prime brawl. It did. Thanks for not letting me down.
Sadly, I see some gameplay points being dumped on when it just boils down to, "that may be a good idea, but I'm a purist and don't want it." I personally don't like the Kelvin-verse, but if DB chose to exploit it for money, I'd pretty much follow along. Though, like everything else, I would vote with my dollars. Pay for crew I like and close the wallet when I don't care for them.
I went to every [TOS] Star Trek movie at least 3 times back then. I almost fell asleep watching the reboot on the big screen.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the reboot was utterly boring. I stopped the first one about an hour and a half in and never finished. It was hard to keep focused because it was so dull and uninteresting. Never bothered watching the other two. The reboot can be decanonized anytime, now.
I'd much prefer a new movie in the main universe. There's tons of story left to tell. Star Trek: Picard will be the first canon peek at what came after Nemesis. It's sad that Star Trek Online is the best source for what's been going on all these years, although it's story is pretty decent if you can get past the enormous Pay2Win wall and incredibly obtuse ship building system. Too bad it's not hard canon.
I for one really enjoyed the reboot Treks. They aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but to be honest I'm not sure how anyone can call them boring - especially when The Motion Picture exists in the Trek canon. Is it a different vision of Trek? Sure is. Is it my favorite vision of Trek? Nope. But it's still Trek.
I went to every [TOS] Star Trek movie at least 3 times back then. I almost fell asleep watching the reboot on the big screen.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the reboot was utterly boring. I stopped the first one about an hour and a half in and never finished. It was hard to keep focused because it was so dull and uninteresting. Never bothered watching the other two. The reboot can be decanonized anytime, now.
I'd much prefer a new movie in the main universe. There's tons of story left to tell. Star Trek: Picard will be the first canon peek at what came after Nemesis. It's sad that Star Trek Online is the best source for what's been going on all these years, although it's story is pretty decent if you can get past the enormous Pay2Win wall and incredibly obtuse ship building system. Too bad it's not hard canon.
I don’t see much of a P2W wall in STO...all of the story content is available for free and there is a decent variety of ships available for free. You can of course spend a ton of money to get super-powered T6 ships, but those really only seem necessary for the kinds of people happy to grind away at PvE operations on the highest difficulty level.
I say this as someone who’s spent more than a few dollars on STO, albeit primarily for cosmetic reasons. How could I not have my Andorian captain rolling around in anything other than Andorian ships (first a Khyzon escort, then a Thozyn pilot escort), for example...still, I don’t do PvP and don’t have the stomach to grind away for days upon days to improve faction rep for what amounts to a pittance in gear and consumables.
As I’ve said a few times before, STO’s story is great (especially the Ferengi heist mission) and the ship combat is still fun; my issue remains that the ground combat has not aged well. Movement is janky, targeting is a mess, and the textures and effects are severely dated. I doubt it will be fixed, of course, since the work needed to bring it up to modern specs would be considerable.
Star Trek, like all things, will change over time. It will evolve. Sometimes nuanced, sometimes overt. I wasn't the biggest fan of the Kelvinverse, but it also brought Trek into the lives of many people that may never have decided to watch any of the tv series or older movies (likewise with Disco). Yes, it is very different--but it is also being presented to a very different world than any previous treks. Being the loudest or most brash in the forums doesn't make any one person's opinion more valid than any anothers, regardless of viewpoint. It's all entertainment. It just happens to be a specific slice of entertainment that all of us in the forums get into and enjoy. Here's a short story:
I work in a Title 1 Elementary school with low-income inner-city kids, and one day I watched a group of them act out a scence from the Kelvinverse. After recess I pulled them into my office and let them play with some of the Trek stuff I have in my office and they loved it. One kid asked to have my Locutus Pophead at his desk the rest of the day (I gave a mini-borg lesson to them). That was entirely because of the new movies that so many people in here have nothing but contempt for. Just because you may personally scorn it, doesn't mean it won't find its way into someone else's heart or in my example, open people up to exploring the Trekverse for a first time.
Star Trek, like all things, will change over time. It will evolve. Sometimes nuanced, sometimes overt. I wasn't the biggest fan of the Kelvinverse, but it also brought Trek into the lives of many people that may never have decided to watch any of the tv series or older movies (likewise with Disco). Yes, it is very different--but it is also being presented to a very different world than any previous treks. Being the loudest or most brash in the forums doesn't make any one person's opinion more valid than any anothers, regardless of viewpoint. It's all entertainment. It just happens to be a specific slice of entertainment that all of us in the forums get into and enjoy. Here's a short story:
I work in a Title 1 Elementary school with low-income inner-city kids, and one day I watched a group of them act out a scence from the Kelvinverse. After recess I pulled them into my office and let them play with some of the Trek stuff I have in my office and they loved it. One kid asked to have my Locutus Pophead at his desk the rest of the day (I gave a mini-borg lesson to them). That was entirely because of the new movies that so many people in here have nothing but contempt for. Just because you may personally scorn it, doesn't mean it won't find its way into someone else's heart or in my example, open people up to exploring the Trekverse for a first time.
It occurs to me that this is a low bar. If the new movies were actually good wouldn't this also work?
I am totally pro them making new Trek, and I am fine with them making some changes, and in truth there's much good to salvage from both JJ Trek and Disco. But the underlying writing is awful in both. I don't see why we can't have it all. Good production values with cool space battles and actual proper story and character development. Surely you don't have to trade special effects for good writing, you can have both simultaneously.
Star Trek 2009 is 2/3rds of a good movie. Starts off strong, with a clear love of the franchise, then goes to the cheap Spock crying well too easily, under develops the villain, then oddly has everyone celebrating overcoming the no-win scenario when they've CLEARLY lost big time (Dozens of Klingon and Federation ships destroyed, billions of Vulcans killed).
Into Darkness is a mess of badly recycled storylines, Spock crying again, plot holes and racist whitewashing.
Star Trek Beyond starts to actually figure out the interaction between the big three, really channeling the pathos of the TOS movies, but then also fails to develop the villain, and forgets the theme established at the beginning of the crew being the Enterprises' greatest resource by barely utilizing them at all.
Even the bad Trek movies in the first 10 are at least based in a long and storied franchise, with characters developed over many years and decades of Trek lore. The Kelvin movies are essentially high budget fan films that they got Leonard Nimoy to do a cameo in - it's not based in anything. Doesn't really fit the game universe.
I really want the Kelvin timeline characters. For absolutely no other reason than to drink the delicious tears of every player who would rage quit and fill this forum with their sorrows. I'm of the firm opinion that there is no such thing as bad Trek.
Drunken Dahar Masters is recruiting active players.
PM for details.
I really want the Kelvin timeline characters. For absolutely no other reason than to drink the delicious tears of every player who would rage quit and fill this forum with their sorrows. I'm of the firm opinion that there is no such thing as bad Trek.
Pivoting to the worst episode in recent memory I just have to ask. DS9's "Let He Who Is Without Sin"
Good Trek?
I really want the Kelvin timeline characters. For absolutely no other reason than to drink the delicious tears of every player who would rage quit and fill this forum with their sorrows. I'm of the firm opinion that there is no such thing as bad Trek.
Pivoting to the worst episode in recent memory I just have to ask. DS9's "Let He Who Is Without Sin"
Good Trek?
3/4s of the episodes of Enterprise? *runs*
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
STT messes with the timeline anyway, so why are there zero cards from the Star Trek reboot "Star Trek", "Beyond" and "Into the Darkness"? Does DB hold no license for those?
I love these refurbished characters so much, having some of them would be amazing.
This is the original question post. All that was required was one response saying that DB does not have license to these movies. Done. Not sure why haters feel the need to hijack these posts with their claim of loving star trek while hating huge swaths of it.
STT messes with the timeline anyway, so why are there zero cards from the Star Trek reboot "Star Trek", "Beyond" and "Into the Darkness"? Does DB hold no license for those?
I love these refurbished characters so much, having some of them would be amazing.
This is the original question post. All that was required was one response saying that DB does not have license to these movies. Done. Not sure why haters feel the need to hijack these posts with their claim of loving star trek while hating huge swaths of it.
Uhhh because it's easier to spread hate than love. People hate JJ Trek cause its different. "It's not the Trek I grew up with." Same arguement for hating Discovery "It's not the Trek I grew up with." People said the same thing of DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. Want to know something funny? The beloved TNG faced the EXACT same stigma when it first premiered! 30+ years later it's beloved. 20 years later DS9 is beloved (been my favorite trek since our first premiered). Same with Voyager and Enterprise. See how easy it is to hate evolution of a beloved franchise? Here's the thing though, without said evolution the franchise can't survive. Enjoy the evolution. Enjoy what Trek is becoming. Spread the love, not the hate. I'll be stepping off my soapbox now.
Star Trek 2009 is 2/3rds of a good movie. Starts off strong, with a clear love of the franchise, then goes to the cheap Spock crying well too easily, under develops the villain, then oddly has everyone celebrating overcoming the no-win scenario when they've CLEARLY lost big time (Dozens of Klingon and Federation ships destroyed, billions of Vulcans killed).
Into Darkness is a mess of badly recycled storylines, Spock crying again, plot holes and racist whitewashing.
Star Trek Beyond starts to actually figure out the interaction between the big three, really channeling the pathos of the TOS movies, but then also fails to develop the villain, and forgets the theme established at the beginning of the crew being the Enterprises' greatest resource by barely utilizing them at all.
Even the bad Trek movies in the first 10 are at least based in a long and storied franchise, with characters developed over many years and decades of Trek lore. The Kelvin movies are essentially high budget fan films that they got Leonard Nimoy to do a cameo in - it's not based in anything. Doesn't really fit the game universe.
Despite their issues, I will watch all of the Kelvinverse films many times over before I fire up Insurrection, more than half of the episodes across the first three seasons of DS9, Code of Honor, These Are The Voyages, or Threshold. I am certain there are other Voyager episodes I never care to see again as well that currently escape me, and I went through Discovery too recently to want to watch any of them again.
As for fitting into the universe, I think you are absolutely and unquestionably wrong - the entire point of the game is that various timelines are all coming together, even those where characters that were simulations, fantasies, dreams, or are entirely new creations are just as “real” as anyone else. Other than obvious licensing issues, why would just one alternate reality be completely excluded from the game? Other than “I don’t like it,” of course.
As to Bylo’s point a while back, we’re at the point where new crew additions are going to fall into only a few categories, stats-wise:
-power creep
-starter crew for newer players (a.k.a. veteran freezer bait)
-duplicates of existing crew
Power creep is not well-liked...it does help extend voyages and give veterans and big spenders something to shoot for to improve event competitiveness. But it also makes older crew progressively more useless and can further separate spenders vs. non-spenders.
Freezer bait is likewise a sticky proposition: those without large, well-stocked crews still need warm bodies to send on voyages and shuttles, and they at least can help advance the immortalization achievements for everyone else. That being said, they don’t offer much more than that other than collection purposes, which is especially chancy for 5* event reward crew.
Everyone else is going to be kind of a clone of existing crew. Like Kortar, Kol, and Thrax or even Desperate Janeway and Resilient Tuvok. There will be little tweaks here and there, with different traits or ship abilities and variety in tertiary skills, to keep them from being re-skinned rather than just bearing resemblance to one another. Short of a few rare skill combos and an additional ENG-heavy gauntlet crew or two to bridge the gap between The Caretaker and everyone else, there isn’t a lot of new ground left to break in this regard.
So does it really matter if duplicates or power-creepers are the Kelvinverse crew or yet more versions of the Prime crew? I don’t think so. In fact, I think it would be neat to have yet more versions of favorite crew - Skydiver Kirk (and Sulu, and even Olson), Enraged Spock, Marooned Scotty, and so on.
Power creep is not well-liked...it does help extend voyages and give veterans and big spenders something to shoot for to improve event competitiveness. But it also makes older crew progressively more useless and can further separate spenders vs. non-spenders.
I actually think power creep does the opposite -- it helps newer players ramp up to a competitive level more quickly. For example, a newer player who won (or bought) Wrathful Kirk this week just got a top-of-the-line Kirk, rather than a run-of-the-mill Kal-if-fee Kirk. So the newer player is getting access to, and able to start sooner with, the best crew available. I'm a longer-time player with a 2/5 Mirror Kirk . . . who was totally useless even in this event for me.
I really want the Kelvin timeline characters. For absolutely no other reason than to drink the delicious tears of every player who would rage quit and fill this forum with their sorrows.
As I said before, JJ Trek is decent on it's own – not as part of the major Trek universe, and non-canon.
Thankfully it is dead now, there will be no more.
@Commander Sinclair you do realize that JJ Trek is canon....... it follows the rules that Gene Roddenberry himself set forth........ also, the fact that the new Picard series may he using the destruction of Romulas and the loss of Ambassador Spock as a basis for his leaving Starfleet, pretty much makes it canon.........
I really want the Kelvin timeline characters. For absolutely no other reason than to drink the delicious tears of every player who would rage quit and fill this forum with their sorrows. I'm of the firm opinion that there is no such thing as bad Trek.
Pivoting to the worst episode in recent memory I just have to ask. DS9's "Let He Who Is Without Sin"
Good Trek?
Janeway and Paris turning into lizards is still good Trek.
Drunken Dahar Masters is recruiting active players.
PM for details.
I really want the Kelvin timeline characters. For absolutely no other reason than to drink the delicious tears of every player who would rage quit and fill this forum with their sorrows. I'm of the firm opinion that there is no such thing as bad Trek.
Pivoting to the worst episode in recent memory I just have to ask. DS9's "Let He Who Is Without Sin"
Good Trek?
Janeway and Paris turning into lizards is still good Trek.
Comments
Playing Devils Advocate - why do you presume that? If crew have differing stats according to episode, then surely from a totally different reality you can have different ones? Does Commander Spock match Labourer Spock? Same series character. You have some overlap, but I'm assuming you have the former frozen rather active?
The Kelvinverse Kirk is introduced to us at a point much earlier than Prime Kirk was, he's a much different character with the death of his father radically altering his timeline. Presumably he was never on Tarsus IV under Kodos, never encountered the attack on the Farragut by the cloud creature.
And the shallow, arrogant, daddy-issues Kirk we see in ST09 has been replaced by a more self-assured, philosophical one by Beyond.
Plenty of scope for cards, different from the ones we already have.
Does ticket sales account for population growth? If not, then we still aren't talking apples to apples. Not that I disagree with the premise, only that it should a ratio or percentage of population to paint a more clear picture.
I stopped in to see if this turned into a Kelvin vs Prime brawl. It did. Thanks for not letting me down.
Sadly, I see some gameplay points being dumped on when it just boils down to, "that may be a good idea, but I'm a purist and don't want it." I personally don't like the Kelvin-verse, but if DB chose to exploit it for money, I'd pretty much follow along. Though, like everything else, I would vote with my dollars. Pay for crew I like and close the wallet when I don't care for them.
We had a vote? Sounds familiar...
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the reboot was utterly boring. I stopped the first one about an hour and a half in and never finished. It was hard to keep focused because it was so dull and uninteresting. Never bothered watching the other two. The reboot can be decanonized anytime, now.
I'd much prefer a new movie in the main universe. There's tons of story left to tell. Star Trek: Picard will be the first canon peek at what came after Nemesis. It's sad that Star Trek Online is the best source for what's been going on all these years, although it's story is pretty decent if you can get past the enormous Pay2Win wall and incredibly obtuse ship building system. Too bad it's not hard canon.
I don’t see much of a P2W wall in STO...all of the story content is available for free and there is a decent variety of ships available for free. You can of course spend a ton of money to get super-powered T6 ships, but those really only seem necessary for the kinds of people happy to grind away at PvE operations on the highest difficulty level.
I say this as someone who’s spent more than a few dollars on STO, albeit primarily for cosmetic reasons. How could I not have my Andorian captain rolling around in anything other than Andorian ships (first a Khyzon escort, then a Thozyn pilot escort), for example...still, I don’t do PvP and don’t have the stomach to grind away for days upon days to improve faction rep for what amounts to a pittance in gear and consumables.
As I’ve said a few times before, STO’s story is great (especially the Ferengi heist mission) and the ship combat is still fun; my issue remains that the ground combat has not aged well. Movement is janky, targeting is a mess, and the textures and effects are severely dated. I doubt it will be fixed, of course, since the work needed to bring it up to modern specs would be considerable.
I work in a Title 1 Elementary school with low-income inner-city kids, and one day I watched a group of them act out a scence from the Kelvinverse. After recess I pulled them into my office and let them play with some of the Trek stuff I have in my office and they loved it. One kid asked to have my Locutus Pophead at his desk the rest of the day (I gave a mini-borg lesson to them). That was entirely because of the new movies that so many people in here have nothing but contempt for. Just because you may personally scorn it, doesn't mean it won't find its way into someone else's heart or in my example, open people up to exploring the Trekverse for a first time.
It occurs to me that this is a low bar. If the new movies were actually good wouldn't this also work?
I am totally pro them making new Trek, and I am fine with them making some changes, and in truth there's much good to salvage from both JJ Trek and Disco. But the underlying writing is awful in both. I don't see why we can't have it all. Good production values with cool space battles and actual proper story and character development. Surely you don't have to trade special effects for good writing, you can have both simultaneously.
Into Darkness is a mess of badly recycled storylines, Spock crying again, plot holes and racist whitewashing.
Star Trek Beyond starts to actually figure out the interaction between the big three, really channeling the pathos of the TOS movies, but then also fails to develop the villain, and forgets the theme established at the beginning of the crew being the Enterprises' greatest resource by barely utilizing them at all.
Even the bad Trek movies in the first 10 are at least based in a long and storied franchise, with characters developed over many years and decades of Trek lore. The Kelvin movies are essentially high budget fan films that they got Leonard Nimoy to do a cameo in - it's not based in anything. Doesn't really fit the game universe.
PM for details.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
Pivoting to the worst episode in recent memory I just have to ask. DS9's "Let He Who Is Without Sin"
Good Trek?
3/4s of the episodes of Enterprise? *runs*
Uhhh because it's easier to spread hate than love. People hate JJ Trek cause its different. "It's not the Trek I grew up with." Same arguement for hating Discovery "It's not the Trek I grew up with." People said the same thing of DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. Want to know something funny? The beloved TNG faced the EXACT same stigma when it first premiered! 30+ years later it's beloved. 20 years later DS9 is beloved (been my favorite trek since our first premiered). Same with Voyager and Enterprise. See how easy it is to hate evolution of a beloved franchise? Here's the thing though, without said evolution the franchise can't survive. Enjoy the evolution. Enjoy what Trek is becoming. Spread the love, not the hate. I'll be stepping off my soapbox now.
The answer was the 1st reply.
Despite their issues, I will watch all of the Kelvinverse films many times over before I fire up Insurrection, more than half of the episodes across the first three seasons of DS9, Code of Honor, These Are The Voyages, or Threshold. I am certain there are other Voyager episodes I never care to see again as well that currently escape me, and I went through Discovery too recently to want to watch any of them again.
As for fitting into the universe, I think you are absolutely and unquestionably wrong - the entire point of the game is that various timelines are all coming together, even those where characters that were simulations, fantasies, dreams, or are entirely new creations are just as “real” as anyone else. Other than obvious licensing issues, why would just one alternate reality be completely excluded from the game? Other than “I don’t like it,” of course.
As to Bylo’s point a while back, we’re at the point where new crew additions are going to fall into only a few categories, stats-wise:
-power creep
-starter crew for newer players (a.k.a. veteran freezer bait)
-duplicates of existing crew
Power creep is not well-liked...it does help extend voyages and give veterans and big spenders something to shoot for to improve event competitiveness. But it also makes older crew progressively more useless and can further separate spenders vs. non-spenders.
Freezer bait is likewise a sticky proposition: those without large, well-stocked crews still need warm bodies to send on voyages and shuttles, and they at least can help advance the immortalization achievements for everyone else. That being said, they don’t offer much more than that other than collection purposes, which is especially chancy for 5* event reward crew.
Everyone else is going to be kind of a clone of existing crew. Like Kortar, Kol, and Thrax or even Desperate Janeway and Resilient Tuvok. There will be little tweaks here and there, with different traits or ship abilities and variety in tertiary skills, to keep them from being re-skinned rather than just bearing resemblance to one another. Short of a few rare skill combos and an additional ENG-heavy gauntlet crew or two to bridge the gap between The Caretaker and everyone else, there isn’t a lot of new ground left to break in this regard.
So does it really matter if duplicates or power-creepers are the Kelvinverse crew or yet more versions of the Prime crew? I don’t think so. In fact, I think it would be neat to have yet more versions of favorite crew - Skydiver Kirk (and Sulu, and even Olson), Enraged Spock, Marooned Scotty, and so on.
I actually think power creep does the opposite -- it helps newer players ramp up to a competitive level more quickly. For example, a newer player who won (or bought) Wrathful Kirk this week just got a top-of-the-line Kirk, rather than a run-of-the-mill Kal-if-fee Kirk. So the newer player is getting access to, and able to start sooner with, the best crew available. I'm a longer-time player with a 2/5 Mirror Kirk . . . who was totally useless even in this event for me.
Captain Level: 95
VIP Level: 12
Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
lol
Second Star to the Right - Join Today!
Thankfully it is dead now, there will be no more.
As should this thread be...?
The music is good.
Agreed! Michael Giacchino has done some nice work overall, and his Trek scores have been consistently satisfying.
Janeway and Paris turning into lizards is still good Trek.
PM for details.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
Um, no.