She was the same age at filming as the Wesley Crusher actor in the red/yellow/blue stripe shirt during Season 1 of TNG. (14)
If this is true, then that's an argument to be had. She seems much younger. Probably just how the characters were portrayed on their respective shows at the time. She's running around the woods with face paint on playing make believe and Wesley was building portable tractor beams for fun. Made him seem much older.
I had less issue with Suspiria because suspension of disbelief allowed me to rationalize that it wasn't her true form and plus the artwork looks like a porcelain doll. If I didn't think too hard about it, I could get around it, but I can't do that if more children are added.
Sticking my Spock ears on for a moment, it's going to be interesting how things play out - all civilisations are built upon slavery, we're the first to face our history in this way, and it's the kind of thing that's existential.
We've built a myth of how good we are, and a history replete with the skulls we've crushed to get here doesn't fit that narrative very well. I'm hoping we come out the other side as a better society, more equal and tolerant, but I'm not betting on it.
I'm not much of a historian - I think I took US history a couple of semesters when I tried out college - but the big difference between US slavery and slavery throughout most of history was that US slavery was a racial thing. Lots of other civs had slaves, but it was almost entirely a POW, "to the victor go the spoils" thing after a battle. Race wasn't an issue, or at least nowhere near to the extent we made it.
Sticking my Spock ears on for a moment, it's going to be interesting how things play out - all civilisations are built upon slavery, we're the first to face our history in this way, and it's the kind of thing that's existential.
We've built a myth of how good we are, and a history replete with the skulls we've crushed to get here doesn't fit that narrative very well. I'm hoping we come out the other side as a better society, more equal and tolerant, but I'm not betting on it.
I'm not much of a historian - I think I took US history a couple of semesters when I tried out college - but the big difference between US slavery and slavery throughout most of history was that US slavery was a racial thing. Lots of other civs had slaves, but it was almost entirely a POW, "to the victor go the spoils" thing after a battle. Race wasn't an issue, or at least nowhere near to the extent we made it.
This is getting political. I don't see this ending well if the thread continues down this path.
She was the same age at filming as the Wesley Crusher actor in the red/yellow/blue stripe shirt during Season 1 of TNG. (14)
If this is true, then that's an argument to be had. She seems much younger. Probably just how the characters were portrayed on their respective shows at the time. She's running around the woods with face paint on playing make believe and Wesley was building portable tractor beams for fun. Made him seem much older.
I had less issue with Suspiria because suspension of disbelief allowed me to rationalize that it wasn't her true form and plus the artwork looks like a porcelain doll. If I didn't think too hard about it, I could get around it, but I can't do that if more children are added.
But tl;dr: I still don't like it.
Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I think the pranks Wesley pulls with his portable tractor beam are just as childish as playing make believe in the woods. I think Wesley and Kestra have pretty parallel levels of maturity. I like both characters. I know... Nobody likes Wesley. But I like Wesley and Will Riker more for how Wil Wheaton and Jonathan Frakes embraced the fandom after their show went off the air. I like actors who appreciate the fans.
I'm not much of a historian - I think I took US history a couple of semesters when I tried out college - but the big difference between US slavery and slavery throughout most of history was that US slavery was a racial thing. Lots of other civs had slaves, but it was almost entirely a POW, "to the victor go the spoils" thing after a battle. Race wasn't an issue, or at least nowhere near to the extent we made it.
Not wishing to get overly political, with civilisation, I was more on about the West in general rather than the US specifically, Europe and the UK are also facing up to the spoils of slavery and imperialism that brought in so much wealth, and realising that the preening face in the mirror has a corrupted painted twin locked in the attic.
Both sides of the Atlantic come with their own complications, the ones in the US are just more overt at the moment.
If this is true, then that's an argument to be had. She seems much younger. Probably just how the characters were portrayed on their respective shows at the time. She's running around the woods with face paint on playing make believe and Wesley was building portable tractor beams for fun. Made him seem much older.
I think how Wesley was treated by the adults in TNG tied into that too.
Kestra isn't piloting a starship, or going on away team missions like Wesley was.
The more you think about it, the more it seems Wesley was brought up by a collection of spacefaring yahoos you wouldn't trust to bring up a tamogatchi.
The more you think about it, the more it seems Wesley was brought up by a collection of spacefaring yahoos you wouldn't trust to bring up a tamogatchi.
Spacefaring Yahoos is gonna be the name of my new band.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
I'm gonna have to go back and rewatch TNG I guess. I was younger than Wesley when it came out, so that probably colored my opinion, but I've never understood the dislike for him. Hell, I always thought it was cool that he went from being just "Crusher's son" to actually being part of the crew.
I didn't really get into DS9 because how the hell are they supposed to explore much of anything from a station? (I need to go back and rewatch that as well, because now I'm old enough to recognize that there's plenty to "explore" in a story and New planets have nothing to do with it.) My main understanding of Nog's arc stems from an article I actually read today that covered his (and Jake's to a lesser degree) part in the last couple of seasons of the series. Based on that, Nog has by far the best child-based character arc in anything I've ever seen and he blows Wesley out of the water.
I can understand the distaste in comparison there, but taken on its own, I don't remember there being anything so god-awful about Wesley...
Sticking my Spock ears on for a moment, it's going to be interesting how things play out - all civilisations are built upon slavery, we're the first to face our history in this way, and it's the kind of thing that's existential.
We've built a myth of how good we are, and a history replete with the skulls we've crushed to get here doesn't fit that narrative very well. I'm hoping we come out the other side as a better society, more equal and tolerant, but I'm not betting on it.
I'm not much of a historian - I think I took US history a couple of semesters when I tried out college - but the big difference between US slavery and slavery throughout most of history was that US slavery was a racial thing. Lots of other civs had slaves, but it was almost entirely a POW, "to the victor go the spoils" thing after a battle. Race wasn't an issue, or at least nowhere near to the extent we made it.
Google Barbary Pirates. Anyone with a white guilt flag is simply uneducated.
Sticking my Spock ears on for a moment, it's going to be interesting how things play out - all civilisations are built upon slavery, we're the first to face our history in this way, and it's the kind of thing that's existential.
We've built a myth of how good we are, and a history replete with the skulls we've crushed to get here doesn't fit that narrative very well. I'm hoping we come out the other side as a better society, more equal and tolerant, but I'm not betting on it.
I'm not much of a historian - I think I took US history a couple of semesters when I tried out college - but the big difference between US slavery and slavery throughout most of history was that US slavery was a racial thing. Lots of other civs had slaves, but it was almost entirely a POW, "to the victor go the spoils" thing after a battle. Race wasn't an issue, or at least nowhere near to the extent we made it.
Google Barbary Pirates. Anyone with a white guilt flag is simply uneducated.
It is incumbent upon any society to acknowledge which groups they have done wrong, try to repair that damage, and be better. Not only for those peoples’ sakes but for their own as well. So many amazing people, ideas, inventions, contributions, and culture are lost otherwise.
Google Barbary Pirates. Anyone with a white guilt flag is simply uneducated.
Not quite sure what your point is, as the Berbers included many white captains along with many non-Islamic ones and enslaved people of most creeds.
I'm really hoping you're not attempting to counter the claim the US has a race problem by highlighting that non-white history gets frequently overlooked? As that would be just embarrassing.
Not to go full "@Prime Lorca [10FH]" on you @Prime Lorca [10FH], while true this thread has now undoubtedly gone to a dark, dark place, it began under such a vague premise that I could counter literally no reply/comment is off topic in this thread because there never was a point established defining what this thread was about
Not to go full "@Prime Lorca [10F]" on you @Prime Lorca [10F], while true this thread has now undoubtedly gone to a dark, dark place, it began under such a vague premise that I could counter literally no reply/comment is off topic in this thread because there never was a point established defining what this thread was about
I've been schooled.
But I'll take it. It's better than where the thread was going. Can we go back to talking about getting the Rascals into the game? I think we can justify them now.
I just discovered the actor who played Rascal Picard (David Tristan Birkin) also played Picard’s nephew 2 years earlier in the episode Family. A different actor (6 years younger) played Renè Picard in Generations.
The actor that played Rascal Guinan (Isis Carmen Jones) also played Whoopi’s character’s younger self in the movie Sister Act.
And the actor that played Rascal Keiko (Caroline Junko King) had previously appeared with Colm Meaney in the 1990 drama Come See the Paradise.
If we’re casting votes for adding the Rascals to the game, count me in. That was a really fun episode.
Not to go full "@Prime Lorca [10FH]" on you @Prime Lorca [10FH], while true this thread has now undoubtedly gone to a dark, dark place, it began under such a vague premise that I could counter literally no reply/comment is off topic in this thread because there never was a point established defining what this thread was about
The forum is made up of the community and it reflects that community. The community as a whole is currently asking itself some serious questions about racism and about what kind of society they want to be. While discussing such issues can be difficult it is a necessary conversation that needs to be had. I would not describe it as a “dark dark place” when so much good can be had by having these conversations.
Yes please. I want little Picard's voice clip, "I want my father. NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!"
That would be awesome. One of the best TNG episodes. I liked how Alexander fit right in with the made young crew and helped using his futuristic remote control car.
The forum is made up of the community and it reflects that community. The community as a whole is currently asking itself some serious questions about racism and about what kind of society they want to be. While discussing such issues can be difficult it is a necessary conversation that needs to be had. I would not describe it as a “dark dark place” when so much good can be had by having these conversations.
You either skipped over a decent portion of the comments here, didn't follow the google recommendation, do not have an issue with justifying slavery, or missed the subtlety embedded in my comment. I'll assume the latter and politely suggest we move on and allow this derailment to get back on track.
The forum is made up of the community and it reflects that community. The community as a whole is currently asking itself some serious questions about racism and about what kind of society they want to be. While discussing such issues can be difficult it is a necessary conversation that needs to be had. I would not describe it as a “dark dark place” when so much good can be had by having these conversations.
You either skipped over a decent portion of the comments here, didn't follow the google recommendation, do not have an issue with justifying slavery, or missed the subtlety embedded in my comment. I'll assume the latter and politely suggest we move on and allow this derailment to get back on track.
I saw the comment trying to justify slavery, strongly disagree with it and responded to it. Sadly some people listen to hate propagandists that push that garbage. That is why it is so important that we have discussions where we can try to counteract such hate and try to help people see a better less hateful way. They are necessary conversations to improve society and make it more fair and loving. I guess my concern was that I felt people were trying to end the conversation and dialogue that needs to happen. I feel that part of the problem has been that people too often do not want to delve into difficult conversations but then the conversations do not happen nor does any change. I do not believe
that was your intention. I was not trying to call you out Bylo, I know you are a good person. I guess I just feel kind of stifled by the game community sometimes. I know some people in game do not like serious topics in UC or event threads. I am happy to abide by that but if people say hate propaganda I will correct it. I am then sometimes criticized for doing so and blamed for starting a conversation I did not start. Mostly people in this thread have been positive and polite and a good conversation has been had here. Those that have not have been corrected by others. This is an out of the way thread. It seems like it should be okay to have a more serious conversation here until the thread gets closed or the original poster Darxide gives more info on what they meant when they said they did not want Kestra in game.
The forum is made up of the community and it reflects that community. The community as a whole is currently asking itself some serious questions about racism and about what kind of society they want to be. While discussing such issues can be difficult it is a necessary conversation that needs to be had. I would not describe it as a “dark dark place” when so much good can be had by having these conversations.
You either skipped over a decent portion of the comments here, didn't follow the google recommendation, do not have an issue with justifying slavery, or missed the subtlety embedded in my comment. I'll assume the latter and politely suggest we move on and allow this derailment to get back on track.
I saw the comment trying to justify slavery, strongly disagree with it and responded to it. Sadly some people listen to hate propagandists that push that garbage. That is why it is so important that we have discussions where we can try to counteract such hate and try to help people see a better less hateful way. They are necessary conversations to improve society and make it more fair and loving. I guess my concern was that I felt people were trying to end the conversation and dialogue that needs to happen. I feel that part of the problem has been that people too often do not want to delve into difficult conversations but then the conversations do not happen nor does any change. I do not believe
that was your intention. I was not trying to call you out Bylo, I know you are a good person. I guess I just feel kind of stifled by the game community sometimes. I know some people in game do not like serious topics in UC or event threads. I am happy to abide by that but if people say hate propaganda I will correct it. I am then sometimes criticized for doing so and blamed for starting a conversation I did not start. Mostly people in this thread have been positive and polite and a good conversation has been had here. Those that have not have been corrected by others. This is an out of the way thread. It seems like it should be okay to have a more serious conversation here until the thread gets closed or the original poster Darxide gives more info on what they meant when they said they did not want Kestra in game.
You are still not getting it. I promise I get your point but you're missing a meta layer, and every comment in this chain is further undoing what we were trying to do. We agree on the big picture, but can this please be the end of this specific chain?
Agreed. I tried to steer it back to the original topic. I didn't expect it to work, so I can't say that I'm disappointed.
Sorry, I tried not to go back in the political aspect here, but sometimes comments need addressing and I found a certain whataboutism, that also undermined their own "point", hit my (admittedly low) bar for that.
Maybe there needs to be a "shame" link next to "awesome", that doesn't show the number, but rather than flag a comment as inappropriate indicates to Shan that it needs a shame bell icon next to it.
That way the community can show its view without further derailment?
Agreed. I tried to steer it back to the original topic. I didn't expect it to work, so I can't say that I'm disappointed.
Sorry, I tried not to go back in the political aspect here, but sometimes comments need addressing and I found a certain whataboutism, that also undermined their own "point", hit my (admittedly low) bar for that.
Maybe there needs to be a "shame" link next to "awesome", that doesn't show the number, but rather than flag a comment as inappropriate indicates to Shan that it needs a shame bell icon next to it.
That way the community can show its view without further derailment?
Honestly, I'm impressed with how well you all addressed the "google" point. I tried typing up several responses, and none of them felt respectful enough to actually post.
Comments
If this is true, then that's an argument to be had. She seems much younger. Probably just how the characters were portrayed on their respective shows at the time. She's running around the woods with face paint on playing make believe and Wesley was building portable tractor beams for fun. Made him seem much older.
I had less issue with Suspiria because suspension of disbelief allowed me to rationalize that it wasn't her true form and plus the artwork looks like a porcelain doll. If I didn't think too hard about it, I could get around it, but I can't do that if more children are added.
But tl;dr: I still don't like it.
I'm not much of a historian - I think I took US history a couple of semesters when I tried out college - but the big difference between US slavery and slavery throughout most of history was that US slavery was a racial thing. Lots of other civs had slaves, but it was almost entirely a POW, "to the victor go the spoils" thing after a battle. Race wasn't an issue, or at least nowhere near to the extent we made it.
This is getting political. I don't see this ending well if the thread continues down this path.
Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I think the pranks Wesley pulls with his portable tractor beam are just as childish as playing make believe in the woods. I think Wesley and Kestra have pretty parallel levels of maturity. I like both characters. I know... Nobody likes Wesley. But I like Wesley and Will Riker more for how Wil Wheaton and Jonathan Frakes embraced the fandom after their show went off the air. I like actors who appreciate the fans.
Oooh, now my head is spinning faster than Linda Blair’s. 🤮
Not wishing to get overly political, with civilisation, I was more on about the West in general rather than the US specifically, Europe and the UK are also facing up to the spoils of slavery and imperialism that brought in so much wealth, and realising that the preening face in the mirror has a corrupted painted twin locked in the attic.
Both sides of the Atlantic come with their own complications, the ones in the US are just more overt at the moment.
I think how Wesley was treated by the adults in TNG tied into that too.
Kestra isn't piloting a starship, or going on away team missions like Wesley was.
The more you think about it, the more it seems Wesley was brought up by a collection of spacefaring yahoos you wouldn't trust to bring up a tamogatchi.
Spacefaring Yahoos is gonna be the name of my new band.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
I'm thinking Travelling Wilbury's meets Daft Punk
I didn't really get into DS9 because how the hell are they supposed to explore much of anything from a station? (I need to go back and rewatch that as well, because now I'm old enough to recognize that there's plenty to "explore" in a story and New planets have nothing to do with it.) My main understanding of Nog's arc stems from an article I actually read today that covered his (and Jake's to a lesser degree) part in the last couple of seasons of the series. Based on that, Nog has by far the best child-based character arc in anything I've ever seen and he blows Wesley out of the water.
I can understand the distaste in comparison there, but taken on its own, I don't remember there being anything so god-awful about Wesley...
Google Barbary Pirates. Anyone with a white guilt flag is simply uneducated.
It is incumbent upon any society to acknowledge which groups they have done wrong, try to repair that damage, and be better. Not only for those peoples’ sakes but for their own as well. So many amazing people, ideas, inventions, contributions, and culture are lost otherwise.
Not quite sure what your point is, as the Berbers included many white captains along with many non-Islamic ones and enslaved people of most creeds.
I'm really hoping you're not attempting to counter the claim the US has a race problem by highlighting that non-white history gets frequently overlooked? As that would be just embarrassing.
Book ‘em Shanno.
Agreed. I tried to steer it back to the original topic. I didn't expect it to work, so I can't say that I'm disappointed.
Remember that one time we had a thread that did not stray off topic?
Me, either......
Unless someone goes and proves me wrong, there's this one.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/16360/1701-chrons#latest
Not to go full "@Prime Lorca [10FH]" on you @Prime Lorca [10FH], while true this thread has now undoubtedly gone to a dark, dark place, it began under such a vague premise that I could counter literally no reply/comment is off topic in this thread because there never was a point established defining what this thread was about
I've been schooled.
But I'll take it. It's better than where the thread was going. Can we go back to talking about getting the Rascals into the game? I think we can justify them now.
The actor that played Rascal Guinan (Isis Carmen Jones) also played Whoopi’s character’s younger self in the movie Sister Act.
And the actor that played Rascal Keiko (Caroline Junko King) had previously appeared with Colm Meaney in the 1990 drama Come See the Paradise.
If we’re casting votes for adding the Rascals to the game, count me in. That was a really fun episode.
The forum is made up of the community and it reflects that community. The community as a whole is currently asking itself some serious questions about racism and about what kind of society they want to be. While discussing such issues can be difficult it is a necessary conversation that needs to be had. I would not describe it as a “dark dark place” when so much good can be had by having these conversations.
That would be awesome. One of the best TNG episodes. I liked how Alexander fit right in with the made young crew and helped using his futuristic remote control car.
You either skipped over a decent portion of the comments here, didn't follow the google recommendation, do not have an issue with justifying slavery, or missed the subtlety embedded in my comment. I'll assume the latter and politely suggest we move on and allow this derailment to get back on track.
I saw the comment trying to justify slavery, strongly disagree with it and responded to it. Sadly some people listen to hate propagandists that push that garbage. That is why it is so important that we have discussions where we can try to counteract such hate and try to help people see a better less hateful way. They are necessary conversations to improve society and make it more fair and loving. I guess my concern was that I felt people were trying to end the conversation and dialogue that needs to happen. I feel that part of the problem has been that people too often do not want to delve into difficult conversations but then the conversations do not happen nor does any change. I do not believe
that was your intention. I was not trying to call you out Bylo, I know you are a good person. I guess I just feel kind of stifled by the game community sometimes. I know some people in game do not like serious topics in UC or event threads. I am happy to abide by that but if people say hate propaganda I will correct it. I am then sometimes criticized for doing so and blamed for starting a conversation I did not start. Mostly people in this thread have been positive and polite and a good conversation has been had here. Those that have not have been corrected by others. This is an out of the way thread. It seems like it should be okay to have a more serious conversation here until the thread gets closed or the original poster Darxide gives more info on what they meant when they said they did not want Kestra in game.
You are still not getting it. I promise I get your point but you're missing a meta layer, and every comment in this chain is further undoing what we were trying to do. We agree on the big picture, but can this please be the end of this specific chain?
Sorry, I tried not to go back in the political aspect here, but sometimes comments need addressing and I found a certain whataboutism, that also undermined their own "point", hit my (admittedly low) bar for that.
Maybe there needs to be a "shame" link next to "awesome", that doesn't show the number, but rather than flag a comment as inappropriate indicates to Shan that it needs a shame bell icon next to it.
That way the community can show its view without further derailment?
Honestly, I'm impressed with how well you all addressed the "google" point. I tried typing up several responses, and none of them felt respectful enough to actually post.
I do appreciate that it stayed civil, really.
As for a "dislike" option, the opposite of "awesome", it does exist but I disabled it.
Why? Because it would be misused and abused.