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Should issues in actors personal lives preclude having their character brought into Timelines?

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Comments

  • Don't worry it will be like that in those places soon enough.
  • edited February 2018
    No
    [VA] NATE wrote: »
    I am having trouble finding on the internet as to how dwight schultz is a bad person.

    He’s an avowed conservative. That’s enough to get some people to claim he’s Literally Hitler just by itself...

    I'm speaking more about the raging misogyny. While he may... may... have mellowed in his old age. during his early A-Team days he and the other main cast hated having women on the show, tried routinely to have actresses fired from their boys club and made their lives on set miserable.

    I couldn't care less whether someone is right or left on the political spectrum since my own views stray to both sides depending on the issue. My contempt is for racists, sexists and bigots in general.
  • Where would one find this information?
  • I am not doubting you, I just was not able to find anything besides being a conservative.
  • Grant77Grant77 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    No
    [VA] NATE wrote: »
    Don't worry it will be like that in those places soon enough.

    The law probably won't change. It's been in place for hundreds of years and been successful. The American founding fathers simply made a huge mistake, but it may get rectified soon.

    It's awfully strange to see Trump doing something positive and progressive, but I hope that he is successful. It's equally strange to see the other (supposedly progressive) party opposing him. It just goes to show that they like to oppose each other for no apparent reason.
  • Agreed 100%. Our news media is the exact same way, complete bias on both sides and ironically enough Donald Trump Jr. Said that this past week.
  • Grant77Grant77 ✭✭✭✭
    No
    Grant77 wrote: »
    The issue at heart is whether or not we want the fees paid to actors for use of their likeness to support people who have done something or been accused of something wrong. Take the Hey Song, for example. It’s a great song for pumping up the crowd at sporting events but the person who gets the royalties, Gary Glitter, is in prison for child pornography and sexual abuse of children in several countries. People have made a good argument that not playing the Hey Song and this depriving Gary Glitter of the royalty checks is a good thing.

    In this case, Stephen Collins is in a similar boat but as far as I know has not been criminally charged with anything. George Takei has been accused of sexual assault of an adult but has shrugged off such allegations (poorly). The others who have various personal and/or legal problems aren’t as serious but still represent the possibility of us funding them and their actions indirectly.

    Regardless of their personal legal and moral status, DB choosing to not to create a character based on an actor’s problems - or a movement by the player base to avoid certain characters - has nothing to do with “innocent until proven guilty” because these are not legal proceedings. The burden of proof for civil suits is less than that for criminal charges even if we could call “not wanting to finance an actor’s personal activities” a legal proceeding.

    With this in mind, I think it is fairest to say that this should be a case-by-case decision. As much as I would like to see Will Decker as a character, I’m not really sure I would like to give money - however small of an amount - to Stephen Collins. Despite her many problems, however, I don’t mind seeing more versions of Kes. I don’t mind seeing more versions of Barclay because I like that character more than I disagree with Dwight Schultz’s politics.

    The main problem in all of this lies in extremely flawed U.S. libel laws. People make these allegations without a shred of proof and will never face any repercussions. Much of this wouldn't happen in a more advanced society like the UK or Canada, where people are treated equally under the law and must provide some proof before making damaging claims. I don't know what these actors did or did not do, but I feel bad that they have had their careers destroyed with no chance to effectively defend their reputation.

    No, the main problem lies in the short statute of limitations to prosecute sexual predators. Many victims are unable to come forward at the time of attack for myriad reasons and when they are able to come forward it is too late. And those that come forward immediately after the attack are often ignored by authorities or accused of "asking for it" or other such evil nonsense. These victims cannot get justice in legal courts and so they try to get justice in the court of public opinion. It is true that not everyone accused is necessarily guilty and that we have to be careful to not judge until we get all the facts we can. But we also have to be mindful that there have been many rich and famous people that have used their money and fame to escape prosecution for years. Many of Cosby's accusers were ignored by the police because he was famous.

    That's also a very big issue, but running smear campaigns in the media does nothing to solve the underlying problems. It has made things adversarial and much worse than they were before. I shudder to think of all of the innocent people that have had their lives destroyed and all of the disgusting people that have profited from it.

    I'm certainly not implying that Canada is doing things perfectly, but they are leaving libel protections in place and working to reform the justice system. The goal is to make it easier for alleged victims to provide their proof in the court of law without the accompanying embarrassment or media frenzy for both parties.
  • No
    [VA] NATE wrote: »
    I am not doubting you, I just was not able to find anything besides being a conservative.

    I honestly don't recall. It was years ago that I read it. Murdoch and Barclay were two fantastic characters and I was shocked when I came across it. IIRC I found it around the same time Dirk Benedict when on a mini-meltdown about RDM recasting Starbuck as a woman.
  • Yes
    I voted yes, but that's solely based on Stephen Collins.

    It shouldn't be based on personal opinions (as much as I disagree with them).
  • Grant77Grant77 ✭✭✭✭
    No
    Grant77 wrote: »

    The main problem in all of this lies in extremely flawed U.S. libel laws. People make these allegations without a shred of proof and will never face any repercussions. Much of this wouldn't happen in a more advanced society like the UK or Canada, where people are treated equally under the law and must provide some proof before making damaging claims. I don't know what these actors did or did not do, but I feel bad that they have had their careers destroyed with no chance to effectively defend their reputation.

    q5n40w6t948b.gif

    Stephen Collins admitted to sexual contact with minors. Jennifer Lien’s rap sheet is a matter of public record. Dwight Schultz’s misogyny is a matter of public record. These things aren’t due to lax libel laws, so please don’t try to suggest they are. If you need proof spoon-fed to you, say the word and it shall be provided.

    Your argument may hold water with respect to George Takei’s accuser, but I am less likely to question those claims than others that have been made towards public figures because Takei tried to blame it on Russia rather something a sane person would do.

    My comment was made in reference to Takei and other claims of a similarly dubious nature. I apologize for not being more clear about that.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    No
    Grant77 wrote: »
    Grant77 wrote: »
    The issue at heart is whether or not we want the fees paid to actors for use of their likeness to support people who have done something or been accused of something wrong. Take the Hey Song, for example. It’s a great song for pumping up the crowd at sporting events but the person who gets the royalties, Gary Glitter, is in prison for child pornography and sexual abuse of children in several countries. People have made a good argument that not playing the Hey Song and this depriving Gary Glitter of the royalty checks is a good thing.

    In this case, Stephen Collins is in a similar boat but as far as I know has not been criminally charged with anything. George Takei has been accused of sexual assault of an adult but has shrugged off such allegations (poorly). The others who have various personal and/or legal problems aren’t as serious but still represent the possibility of us funding them and their actions indirectly.

    Regardless of their personal legal and moral status, DB choosing to not to create a character based on an actor’s problems - or a movement by the player base to avoid certain characters - has nothing to do with “innocent until proven guilty” because these are not legal proceedings. The burden of proof for civil suits is less than that for criminal charges even if we could call “not wanting to finance an actor’s personal activities” a legal proceeding.

    With this in mind, I think it is fairest to say that this should be a case-by-case decision. As much as I would like to see Will Decker as a character, I’m not really sure I would like to give money - however small of an amount - to Stephen Collins. Despite her many problems, however, I don’t mind seeing more versions of Kes. I don’t mind seeing more versions of Barclay because I like that character more than I disagree with Dwight Schultz’s politics.

    The main problem in all of this lies in extremely flawed U.S. libel laws. People make these allegations without a shred of proof and will never face any repercussions. Much of this wouldn't happen in a more advanced society like the UK or Canada, where people are treated equally under the law and must provide some proof before making damaging claims. I don't know what these actors did or did not do, but I feel bad that they have had their careers destroyed with no chance to effectively defend their reputation.

    No, the main problem lies in the short statute of limitations to prosecute sexual predators. Many victims are unable to come forward at the time of attack for myriad reasons and when they are able to come forward it is too late. And those that come forward immediately after the attack are often ignored by authorities or accused of "asking for it" or other such evil nonsense. These victims cannot get justice in legal courts and so they try to get justice in the court of public opinion. It is true that not everyone accused is necessarily guilty and that we have to be careful to not judge until we get all the facts we can. But we also have to be mindful that there have been many rich and famous people that have used their money and fame to escape prosecution for years. Many of Cosby's accusers were ignored by the police because he was famous.

    That's also a very big issue, but running smear campaigns in the media does nothing to solve the underlying problems. It has made things adversarial and much worse than they were before. I shudder to think of all of the innocent people that have had their lives destroyed and all of the disgusting people that have profited from it.

    I'm certainly not implying that Canada is doing things perfectly, but they are leaving libel protections in place and working to reform the justice system. The goal is to make it easier for alleged victims to provide their proof in the court of law without the accompanying embarrassment or media frenzy for both parties.

    I disagree. Often in these cases nothing is done until there is media attention. Only by publically shaming Michigan State and the Gymnastics and Olympic organizations is anything being done to prevent other Dr. Nassars. Without media attention Dr. Nassar was able to continue to attack girls and women for years and years. And there has only been an increase in laws and police action in recent years because of the attention of the media. It is sad and shameful but often changes for the better only come because of media and public pressure. And as far as peoples' careers being ruined, most of these people that have had their careers affected have been accused by many different people by horrible acts, not just one person. And although the accused have their names tarnished, most are not going to jail, even the ones that really should. And the people that were attacked will be affected their whole lives.
    Let’s fly!
  • edited February 2018
    No
    While this is a good question, I think the conversation can easily spiral downhill.

    jsefmbpnbjhb.jpeg

    I hope not. I'd like to think that we're adult enough and mature enough to discuss serious matters like this.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Case by Case
    Grant77 wrote: »
    My comment was made in reference to Takei and other claims of a similarly dubious nature. I apologize for not being more clear about that.

    I gotcha, no hard feelings.
  • No
    I definitely am into trek for the characters. If the actors detract from my experience then i ignore them.
    ~ seeking out new life
  • No
    You have crew in the game like the Orion Slaver, various Ferengi traditionalists, torturers like Gul Madred, advocates of Genocide (the Founder, commander Dolim), and other ilk in the collection of fictional characters in this game. Shall we go after Colonel Karr? He is wearing an SS uniform.
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    No
    Don't forget totalitarian fun sponge Burnham. She is really bad. At least her card is very bad. I haven't seen the show. Perhaps on the show she's different. During the event she was an absolute nightmare. On the other hand, she is a wonderful crew member as far as card traits go. I use her all the time. I just don't trust her. Anyone who tried those stunts that she tried during the event, would go down in history like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Hitler.
  • While this is a good question, I think the conversation can easily spiral downhill.

    jsefmbpnbjhb.jpeg

    I hope not. I'd like to think that we're adult enough and mature enough to discuss serious matters like this.


    Me too, but the history of the internet says otherwise
  • No
    While this is a good question, I think the conversation can easily spiral downhill.

    jsefmbpnbjhb.jpeg

    I hope not. I'd like to think that we're adult enough and mature enough to discuss serious matters like this.


    Me too, but the history of the internet says otherwise

    Yeah, but despite age and experience telling me otherwise, I particularly like to believe Trek fans are a cut above the masses and aren't just fans of blinking lights and 'splosions in space. I'm very often wrong but I still like thinking it.
  • [VA] NATE wrote: »
    I am not doubting you, I just was not able to find anything besides being a conservative.

    I honestly don't recall. It was years ago that I read it. Murdoch and Barclay were two fantastic characters and I was shocked when I came across it. IIRC I found it around the same time Dirk Benedict when on a mini-meltdown about RDM recasting Starbuck as a woman.

    The only thing that Dwight Schultz is guilty of is being a conservative. Everybody always speaks very highly of him. The bogus claim that he is a mysogynist comes from a story that Melinda Culea tells (that no one else has ever confirmed, and has been denied by everyone else who was present) that George Peppard told her once that she wasn't wanted on the show and her character was ruining the show. The implication being that it was because she was a woman.

    For arguments sake, let us assume the story is true, and that George Peppard was being a mysogynist (and this just isn't an actress pissed off she was fired, or an actress who read way to much into a conversation with someone trying to let her know it wasn't working out). All Dwight Schultz is guilty of is being friends with a mysogynist.
  • Case by Case
    According to previous statements by DB, the actors have to OK use of their likeness.

    I therefore assume that there may be some type of compensation for said use.

    Therefore, creating a new crew in the game could result in the actor/actress making money through the game.

    Therefore, consideration of the actor's behavior is appropriate, but should be on a case-by-case basis.
This discussion has been closed.