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DO BETTER - Event Shuttle mission design failure with "AND" issue still in effect (no cmd+sec) slots

It is sad that there are NO slots which "feature" the featured crew

no CMD and SEC ( as opposed to the 6 sec+cmd) slots or cmd+med for Kes.

with Killy and Kess being "CMD" Primary and SEC secondary... no slots are designed for these"featured" characters.
and before you look... no cmd+med slots either...

What we are left with are both sec+cmd or med+cmd slots which will frustrate players as the missiosn will show an INCORRECT % success for Killy or Kess slotted into either of them.

at least there are 2 slots which feature sec+dip for Audra...

I feel this is a failure of DB's part not to "mix some of these" up for variety, especially with the KNOWN/Proven issue with dispayed success rate differences on AND missions with swapped skills
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Comments

  • [RotP]Ran Airen[RotP]Ran Airen ✭✭✭✭
    I don't think that the issue has been acknowledged as "known" so it is really more business as usual. No one seems to communicate (or maybe it is care) that there is a potential issue that that should be manually avoided (by designing appropriate shuttles) until it is resolved.
    Member of Rise of the Phoenix.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are there any straight up CMD slots for which Killy/TPKes would still be excellent? My shuttles are out right now and I can't remember.
    Fleet: Starship Trista
    Captain Level: 95
    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
    Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
  • This Sisko1This Sisko1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
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    Some CMD only options but if you didn't know better, you might place her in the second sec AND cmd and lead to fails.
  • [ISA] Raven[ISA] Raven ✭✭✭
    there are a couple of straight up CMD slots.
    and i thought they they "Brought the information to thier developer team"

    the research done was Pretty darn conclusive. either its calculated wrong, or displayed wrong... my bet is on displayed wrong.. which just creates frustration that high % displayed missions fail too often.
  • NivenFresNivenFres ✭✭✭✭
    The primary ones I'm seeing so far.

    Sec AND Cmd
    Eng AND Sec
    Sec AND Dip
    "If it wasn't for autocorrect, we wouldn't have Tuvok on a Giraffe."
  • Nero84Nero84 ✭✭✭
    I thought I remember Shan posting that he forwarded the information to be investigated. That was a few weeks ago, I believe, but even if DB does their own analysis and confirms the bug it will take some time to release fix.

    After that there hasn't been any confirmation if DB views this as a bug or not.
  • [ISA] Raven[ISA] Raven ✭✭✭
    there aren't even any DIP+ENG slots for the new 2* off duty Tilly...

    so 0/3 on shuttle slots designed for the "featured crew"
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with all of the above, but for those of us who will just have TP-Kes, at least she will be useful in the CMD only slots. Nearly 3000 skill.
    Fleet: Starship Trista
    Captain Level: 95
    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
    Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    there aren't even any DIP+ENG slots for the new 2* off duty Tilly...

    so 0/3 on shuttle slots designed for the "featured crew"

    Ardra is SEC > DIP > ENG and there is a SEC + DIP slot on "Twice the Tilly".
  • [ISA] Raven[ISA] Raven ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    there aren't even any DIP+ENG slots for the new 2* off duty Tilly...

    so 0/3 on shuttle slots designed for the "featured crew"

    Ardra is SEC > DIP > ENG and there is a SEC + DIP slot on "Twice the Tilly".

    I never mentioned Ardra... but to be honest.. there are two SEC+DIP slots which Ardra would fit for...
    fourth slot for "Twice the Tilly" as you mentioned... as well as 3rd slot for "Methods of control"

    so... i give them a 1/4... on the design of this events' shuttle missions.
    1 "featured crew" with slots that "Feature their strength"
    3 "new featured crew" with no slots that "Feature their strengths"

    would that be fair?
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    SEC/DIP is already a tough combo taking into account the AND error. Kortar and Ardra are far and away the best I have for that combo...after that it’s maybe Tarah? I see too many of those and I’m going to have to pull Mommy Horta out of the freezer.
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    there aren't even any DIP+ENG slots for the new 2* off duty Tilly...

    so 0/3 on shuttle slots designed for the "featured crew"

    Ardra is SEC > DIP > ENG and there is a SEC + DIP slot on "Twice the Tilly".

    I never mentioned Ardra... but to be honest.. there are two SEC+DIP slots which Ardra would fit for...
    fourth slot for "Twice the Tilly" as you mentioned... as well as 3rd slot for "Methods of control"

    so... i give them a 1/4... on the design of this events' shuttle missions.
    1 "featured crew" with slots that "Feature their strength"
    3 "new featured crew" with no slots that "Feature their strengths"

    would that be fair?

    Generally, I don't consider the 2* reward in evaluating how the event is designed. It isn't a 3x Featured bonus like the 4/5*s.
  • Princess TristaPrincess Trista ✭✭✭✭✭
    I haven't had any problems.

    Trista
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I think you also have to look at all the bonus characters to see what skills are available after across all of them. Some Klingons and Terran exist with command as a main skill so they are available.

    I think most (> 50%) of players don't level main event characters enough to be beneficial so maybe that's why you don't see a lot of missions for them.
  • [10F] Belle'Anna [10F] Belle'Anna ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you also have to look at all the bonus characters to see what skills are available after across all of them. Some Klingons and Terran exist with command as a main skill so they are available.

    I think most (> 50%) of players don't level main event characters enough to be beneficial so maybe that's why you don't see a lot of missions for them.

    I'm not sure about that! Isn't buying the packs and leveling main crew to get the 3x bonus a thing? It always has been for my fleet! It can make a huge difference! If you have somewhere to place them!
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
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  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is very annoying that I struggle to find a good shuttle for Killy. It should definitely not be this way
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    EDIT: Why not follow a process similar to the one outlined below by Admiral Prince in the April 30th Q&A?

    From the April 30th Q&A (https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5164/q-a-with-admiral-prince-april-18#latest):

    “How do you decide what traits and stars a crew has, especially the more subjective traits?
    For traits this is a multi-person, multi-step process. A designer proposes traits, often considering other versions of that character. These are reviewed by our community team, other designers, QA, people very familiar with the episode or character, etc.

    The star-rating for crew is totally different, however. That process starts when we need a crew who is X number of stars or they need to fit Y narrative. At that point, the narrative designers make suggestions and then we go back and forth on who it should be, and what version of that character. We then debate over whether that version of them is valid for whatever star level. Sometimes, we base that on their role in the episode, or how beloved they are by fans, or how that version compares to other potential versions. This process has lots of different inputs and operates quite differently from our process for traits.”
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • Even with this knowledge and compensating for it properly, I still just had 3 of 4 95%+ missions fail. Shuttle events are hot garbage.
  • Ishmael MarxIshmael Marx ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    If DB wants to encourage people to buy characters before the event, then the missions should reflect the skills of the characters they're buying.

    Exactly this. Each of the featured crew should have at least 1 slot (per faction) that is designed/intended for them - this is what "featured" implies. Otherwise, the event pack is really no different a themed crew pack that just happens to be offered during an event, and the threshold card is really just a nice participation trophy with minimal purpose.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    I think you also have to look at all the bonus characters to see what skills are available after across all of them. Some Klingons and Terran exist with command as a main skill so they are available.

    I think most (> 50%) of players don't level main event characters enough to be beneficial so maybe that's why you don't see a lot of missions for them.

    I'm not sure about that! Isn't buying the packs and leveling main crew to get the 3x bonus a thing? It always has been for my fleet! It can make a huge difference! If you have somewhere to place them!

    Definitely the 3x bonus should be part of the event shuttles. However, so should all of the other 2x bonus crew that have been collected by everyone since they started. Otherwise, why collect if this week's crew is useless tomorrow. A balance is needed that definitely should include spots for both groups.

    That being said, this event is now a beast with dozens of characters who qualify for bonuses so I am glad it's not my job to figure out the missions because it isn't an easy one.
  • [S14] Elynduil[S14] Elynduil ✭✭✭✭
    Nero84 wrote: »
    I thought I remember Shan posting that he forwarded the information to be investigated. That was a few weeks ago, I believe, but even if DB does their own analysis and confirms the bug it will take some time to release fix.

    After that there hasn't been any confirmation if DB views this as a bug or not.

    Confirmation or no, surely the best practice would be to design the shuttle requirements to be "safe, rather than sorry" until they've managed to replicate the bug? (And how hard can that be, when they've already been told exactly what to look for?)

    Considering that, this event design seems to be a really bad joke. Or is the plan that we should be their test subjects?
  • Nero84Nero84 ✭✭✭
    Elynduil wrote: »
    Nero84 wrote: »
    I thought I remember Shan posting that he forwarded the information to be investigated. That was a few weeks ago, I believe, but even if DB does their own analysis and confirms the bug it will take some time to release fix.

    After that there hasn't been any confirmation if DB views this as a bug or not.

    Confirmation or no, surely the best practice would be to design the shuttle requirements to be "safe, rather than sorry" until they've managed to replicate the bug? (And how hard can that be, when they've already been told exactly what to look for?)

    Considering that, this event design seems to be a really bad joke. Or is the plan that we should be their test subjects?

    I try not to assume anything we it comes to development but if your philosophy is that there should only be "Or" or single option choices I think it would be doable. I am still not at the point in which I am upset at DB regarding a fix because I do consider this still a new issue. If this goes through the next Mega Event and there is no update I think we as a community have a right to be upset if there truly is a bug.
  • Secret JourneySecret Journey ✭✭✭✭
    Elynduil wrote: »
    It's almost like they are trying to maximize the bug for the most players possible.

    I love this comment but it gives Do Better too much credit. They’re really just continuing to cash in on a badly inefficient product...we all keep paying for a tire that will never ever ever hold air...as advertised. Wish my finances worked this way
    DB = Climbing up an endless wall...
  • Elynduil wrote: »
    I just think they could have avoided AND setups that sadistically swaps around the primary and secondary stats of the Featured Event crew.

    It's almost like they are trying to maximize the bug for the most players possible.

    IKR.
  • YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen way worse events for shuttle slots than this one. I haven't really thought this one is too bad, Killy always finds a slot that uses 2 skills and Kes usually fits somewhere too... most of my thawed Terrans are working pretty good as well
  • RaraRacingRaraRacing ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I'm taking the middle ground here ... at least there is not a glut of MED or SCI or ENG slots ... like there has been in the past when no (or very few at least) event crew had those skills (see Fire with Fire and Rule 125)! I'm just happy the most prevalent skills are SEC, DIP and CMD (especially taking Klingons and their primary skills into consideration!).

    I'm seeing a lot of slots on Terran shuttles that are easy to fill with my limited crew of Klingons and Terrans, even taking the AND issue into account.
    e.g. ENG & SEC --> Mirror Data, Mirror Tucker ... CMD & SEC --> Kortar or a whole host of Worfs or Martok ... ENG & SCI --> Mirror Geordi
    There is only one slot where I'm using non-bonus crew every so often ... SCI, I use Kolos, but sometimes Surak.

    For the Klingon shuttles ... I have more problems filling those with my crew in general so and just doing 100% Terran.
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