I'm taking the middle ground here ... at least there is not a glut of MED or SCI or ENG slots ... like there has been in the past when no (or very few at least) event crew had those skills (see Fire with Fire and Rule 125)! I'm just happy the most prevalent skills are SEC, DIP and CMD (especially taking Klingons and their primary skills into consideration!).
I'm seeing a lot of slots on Terran shuttles that are easy to fill with my limited crew of Klingons and Terrans, even taking the AND issue into account.
e.g. ENG & SEC --> Mirror Data, Mirror Tucker ... CMD & SEC --> Kortar or a whole host of Worfs or Martok ... ENG & SCI --> Mirror Geordi
There is only one slot where I'm using non-bonus crew every so often ... SCI, I use Kolos, but sometimes Surak.
For the Klingon shuttles ... I have more problems filling those with my crew in general so and just doing 100% Terran.
I’m with you. Having Kolos and Kurak has really helped fill some skill gaps. I’m even getting use out of my 1/5* General Chang and 2/5* Mirror Cochrane. Come to think of it, I want to say I’ve also only used one non-bonus crew (AoS Crusher for a MED/COM slot) thus far.
SEC/DIP is already a tough combo taking into account the AND error. Kortar and Ardra are far and away the best I have for that combo...after that it’s maybe Tarah? I see too many of those and I’m going to have to pull Mommy Horta out of the freezer.
I thought I remember Shan posting that he forwarded the information to be investigated. That was a few weeks ago, I believe, but even if DB does their own analysis and confirms the bug it will take some time to release fix.
After that there hasn't been any confirmation if DB views this as a bug or not.
Confirmation or no, surely the best practice would be to design the shuttle requirements to be "safe, rather than sorry" until they've managed to replicate the bug? (And how hard can that be, when they've already been told exactly what to look for?)
Considering that, this event design seems to be a really bad joke. Or is the plan that we should be their test subjects?
I try not to assume anything we it comes to development but if your philosophy is that there should only be "Or" or single option choices I think it would be doable. I am still not at the point in which I am upset at DB regarding a fix because I do consider this still a new issue. If this goes through the next Mega Event and there is no update I think we as a community have a right to be upset if there truly is a bug.
There truly is a bug. The issue has been that, before now, it has only been suspected. No one could be bothered to put in the substantial effort to empirically prove the issue. The issue probably started when DB tinkered with the AND function because of complaints. IMHO they should have just left it alone, i.e. (Skill1 + Skill2)/2. (It should be that it is the least beneficial function of the three. One of them has to be.)
Someone has now put in the effort but I'm not sure why. DB doesn't fix bugs that they regard that doesn't directly affect revenue. So now those in the "know" will out perform those who don't know or don't understand. (Those in the know are the ones campaigning for the change, fix or level playing field rather that keeping it to themselves for their benefit.)
A whole lot of complaining on here, as ever. Yep, there’s a bug affecting the ‘and’ shuttles, and yes we are the enlightened ones who actually know about it and can strategize (thanks to someone else’s hard work).
And yes, the event crew don’t perfectly fit into the available shuttles, but we still have SEC places for Ardra and single CMD places for Kes. It just requires a tiny amount of strategy to work it out, that’s the nature of the game, to find out how best to proceed/ succeed with the tools at hand.
Perhaps next time they can label the shuttle slots with “PUT KES HERE” “ARDRA GOES HERE” etc... now wouldn’t that be a lot of fun?
it doesn't nessesarily "lead" to failures.. just shows the wrong percentage.
a 1/5 FE Killy has 755CMD and 540 SEC... (pre starbase/collection bonus)
in the CMD slot... she would have 3x755 = 2265 skill
in the SEC+CMD slot she would have 3x540+3x750x0.25= 2183
but compared to Kotar who is primary sec and secondary cmd?
at 1/5 he would be 493 cmd and 830 sec so 830x2+493x2x.025 = 1906
but being featured before.. likely FF so 1209x2+921x2x.025 = 2879 much better than Killy 1/5
the big problem is that the displayed percentage is wrong... which leads to frustration! if they displayed it right... for the correctly weighted skills... we could believe the numbers..
and to my original post....
there should have been SOME slots that actually were designed for the "new" "featured" crew.
Where do the formulas you're using come from? Have these been confirmed bij DB anywhere?
it doesn't nessesarily "lead" to failures.. just shows the wrong percentage.
a 1/5 FE Killy has 755CMD and 540 SEC... (pre starbase/collection bonus)
in the CMD slot... she would have 3x755 = 2265 skill
in the SEC+CMD slot she would have 3x540+3x750x0.25= 2183
but compared to Kotar who is primary sec and secondary cmd?
at 1/5 he would be 493 cmd and 830 sec so 830x2+493x2x.025 = 1906
but being featured before.. likely FF so 1209x2+921x2x.025 = 2879 much better than Killy 1/5
the big problem is that the displayed percentage is wrong... which leads to frustration! if they displayed it right... for the correctly weighted skills... we could believe the numbers..
and to my original post....
there should have been SOME slots that actually were designed for the "new" "featured" crew.
Where do the formulas you're using come from? Have these been confirmed bij DB anywhere?
Honestly, whether or not the formulas have been confirmed by DB is irrelevant. Across thousands of recorded shuttle missions, these are the equations that explain the observed actual versus projected success percentages. With enough study of inputs and outputs, the nature of even a hidden system can be derived empirically.
It is relevant because it says something about the extent to which DB creates a level playing field. If the in game predicted success rate is incorrect and some players know how to calculate the correct predicted success rate they will make better choices when comes to filling shuttles. This would be an unfair advantage.
It is relevant because it says something about the extent to which DB creates a level playing field. If the in game predicted success rate is incorrect and some players know how to calculate the correct predicted success rate they will make better choices when comes to filling shuttles. This would be an unfair advantage.
I don't understand why fairness has become the focus of debate. The more important question to me is whether it's incompetence or intransigence that's preventing them from fixing bugs like this in a timely manner.
It is relevant because it says something about the extent to which DB creates a level playing field. If the in game predicted success rate is incorrect and some players know how to calculate the correct predicted success rate they will make better choices when comes to filling shuttles. This would be an unfair advantage.
Knowledge is power. Cry me a river
Ha! Love your replies. Right on. I know of the bug and I put my crew on shuttles to avoid failing because of it. It only takes a little thought to work around it. It’s really not that difficult
I don't understand why fairness has become the focus of debate. The more important question to me is whether it's incompetence or intransigence that's preventing them from fixing bugs like this in a timely manner.
Probably because the inability to deal with this bug fits in a pattern that most of us have learnt to deal with. And as long as it effects everyone in the same way the impact is limited.
If, however, the knowledge about how to deal with it is restricted to a subset of players it becomes unfair.
Yes, knowledge is power. Fine with that. But everyone should be equally able to acquire that knowledge.
I don't understand why fairness has become the focus of debate. The more important question to me is whether it's incompetence or intransigence that's preventing them from fixing bugs like this in a timely manner.
Probably because the inability to deal with this bug fits in a pattern that most of us have learnt to deal with. And as long as it effects everyone in the same way the impact is limited.
If, however, the knowledge about how to deal with it is restricted to a subset of players it becomes unfair.
Yes, knowledge is power. Fine with that. But everyone should be equally able to acquire that knowledge.
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
But they don't. So that basically boils down to the same issue: if you don't know then you are at a significant disadvantage
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
But they don't. So that basically boils down to the same issue: if you don't know then you are at a significant disadvantage
Edit: fixed quotation
Every player gets in game messages referring to the forum
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
But they don't. So that basically boils down to the same issue: if you don't know then you are at a significant disadvantage
Edit: fixed quotation
Every player receives an in-game message with a URL that leads to these forums, every week, prior to an event. Whether or not players choose to visit that URL is entirely up to them, not DB. 🖖🏻
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
The DB mails go to all users, so that is 100%. If anyone follows those links or not - well, that is a different story. Many don´t make the effort. And simple play it casual. Don´t care about advantages.
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
Me too, but there's certainly a lot of players that aren't as deep with Klingons and Terrans.
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
Me too, but there's certainly a lot of players that aren't as deep with Klingons and Terrans.
Let’s have a moment of silence to reflect on those poor souls who choose not to visit the forums, and don’t have great depth in their Klingon and Terran crews.
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
Me too, but there's certainly a lot of players that aren't as deep with Klingons and Terrans.
Let’s have a moment of silence to reflect on those poor souls who choose not to visit the forums, and don’t have great depth in their Klingon and Terran crews.
😔
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
Me too, but there's certainly a lot of players that aren't as deep with Klingons and Terrans.
Let’s have a moment of silence to reflect on those poor souls who choose not to visit the forums, and don’t have great depth in their Klingon and Terran crews.
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
Me too, but there's certainly a lot of players that aren't as deep with Klingons and Terrans.
Let’s have a moment of silence to reflect on those poor souls who choose not to visit the forums, and don’t have great depth in their Klingon and Terran crews.
Antaak to Antaak, Voq to Voq....
Kolos and Martok and Phlox, oh my....
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
There are so many bonus crew this event, I barely even need Killy, Kes & Ardra — I've run quite a few shuttles without any of them and all at above 90%.
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
Me too, but there's certainly a lot of players that aren't as deep with Klingons and Terrans.
Let’s have a moment of silence to reflect on those poor souls who choose not to visit the forums, and don’t have great depth in their Klingon and Terran crews.
Antaak to Antaak, Voq to Voq....
Kolos and Martok and Phlox, oh my....
Way to keep it to super rares. Don’t want to mention legendaries. Could offend those that don’t have any
I followed each of these AND threads from inception. Through trial & error in the last 2 Faction Events, I learned how to maximize my shuttles’ real chances for success. As a result, in this current event I have failed only 4 shuttles so far, 2 at VP=3500 and 2 at VP=4000.
I also encouraged my fleetmates to visit these forums and read for themselves, because y’all explain things much more clearly than I do. 🖖🏻
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
But they don't. So that basically boils down to the same issue: if you don't know then you are at a significant disadvantage
Edit: fixed quotation
Every player receives an in-game message with a URL that leads to these forums, every week, prior to an event. Whether or not players choose to visit that URL is entirely up to them, not DB. 🖖🏻
Wait, it's one thing to say all players could read the forums and be more informed. It's quite another to say that they should suffer from a bug in the game because they don't read the forums. There's been no message that says that the forums are required to manage gameplay around errors in the game.
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
But they don't. So that basically boils down to the same issue: if you don't know then you are at a significant disadvantage
Edit: fixed quotation
Every player receives an in-game message with a URL that leads to these forums, every week, prior to an event. Whether or not players choose to visit that URL is entirely up to them, not DB. 🖖🏻
Wait, it's one thing to say all players could read the forums and be more informed. It's quite another to say that they should suffer from a bug in the game because they don't read the forums. There's been no message that says that the forums are required to manage gameplay around errors in the game.
The last time such an buggy advantage was reduced, by a game design change, everybody here in the forum was furious. Now people complain because an other shuttle bug (that had not officially been confirmed, regardless how conclusive the findings are) is not known to everybody..
I sometimes do not understand this forum.
I followed each of these AND threads from inception. Through trial & error in the last 2 Faction Events, I learned how to maximize my shuttles’ real chances for success. As a result, in this current event I have failed only 4 shuttles so far, 2 at VP=3500 and 2 at VP=4000.
I also encouraged my fleetmates to visit these forums and read for themselves, because y’all explain things much more clearly than I do. 🖖🏻
Since I’ve worked my shuttles around the bug, I have noticed a huge difference
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
But they don't. So that basically boils down to the same issue: if you don't know then you are at a significant disadvantage
Edit: fixed quotation
Every player receives an in-game message with a URL that leads to these forums, every week, prior to an event. Whether or not players choose to visit that URL is entirely up to them, not DB. 🖖🏻
Wait, it's one thing to say all players could read the forums and be more informed. It's quite another to say that they should suffer from a bug in the game because they don't read the forums. There's been no message that says that the forums are required to manage gameplay around errors in the game.
My comment was about players knowing of the existence of these forums. I never said that they should suffer from the bug, and of course DB should fix it to provide a level playing field. 🖖🏻
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Comments
I’m with you. Having Kolos and Kurak has really helped fill some skill gaps. I’m even getting use out of my 1/5* General Chang and 2/5* Mirror Cochrane. Come to think of it, I want to say I’ve also only used one non-bonus crew (AoS Crusher for a MED/COM slot) thus far.
Mr Potato Head
There truly is a bug. The issue has been that, before now, it has only been suspected. No one could be bothered to put in the substantial effort to empirically prove the issue. The issue probably started when DB tinkered with the AND function because of complaints. IMHO they should have just left it alone, i.e. (Skill1 + Skill2)/2. (It should be that it is the least beneficial function of the three. One of them has to be.)
Someone has now put in the effort but I'm not sure why. DB doesn't fix bugs that they regard that doesn't directly affect revenue. So now those in the "know" will out perform those who don't know or don't understand. (Those in the know are the ones campaigning for the change, fix or level playing field rather that keeping it to themselves for their benefit.)
And yes, the event crew don’t perfectly fit into the available shuttles, but we still have SEC places for Ardra and single CMD places for Kes. It just requires a tiny amount of strategy to work it out, that’s the nature of the game, to find out how best to proceed/ succeed with the tools at hand.
Perhaps next time they can label the shuttle slots with “PUT KES HERE” “ARDRA GOES HERE” etc... now wouldn’t that be a lot of fun?
Where do the formulas you're using come from? Have these been confirmed bij DB anywhere?
Honestly, whether or not the formulas have been confirmed by DB is irrelevant. Across thousands of recorded shuttle missions, these are the equations that explain the observed actual versus projected success percentages. With enough study of inputs and outputs, the nature of even a hidden system can be derived empirically.
Knowledge is power. Cry me a river
You're not wrong, but I would rather phrase it as an unfair disadvantage to those who don't know. And that's on DB.
Ha! Love your replies. Right on. I know of the bug and I put my crew on shuttles to avoid failing because of it. It only takes a little thought to work around it. It’s really not that difficult
Probably because the inability to deal with this bug fits in a pattern that most of us have learnt to deal with. And as long as it effects everyone in the same way the impact is limited.
If, however, the knowledge about how to deal with it is restricted to a subset of players it becomes unfair.
Yes, knowledge is power. Fine with that. But everyone should be equally able to acquire that knowledge.
They can come here and read just as easily as we did. There have been enough in game messages referring to the forums. If they choose not to come here that’s on them
If 100% of these user base knew about the forums then that would be fair enough
But they don't. So that basically boils down to the same issue: if you don't know then you are at a significant disadvantage
Edit: fixed quotation
Every player gets in game messages referring to the forum
Every player receives an in-game message with a URL that leads to these forums, every week, prior to an event. Whether or not players choose to visit that URL is entirely up to them, not DB. 🖖🏻
The DB mails go to all users, so that is 100%. If anyone follows those links or not - well, that is a different story. Many don´t make the effort. And simple play it casual. Don´t care about advantages.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
There are tons. Every seat on every shuttle I send is bonus crew.
Me too, but there's certainly a lot of players that aren't as deep with Klingons and Terrans.
Let’s have a moment of silence to reflect on those poor souls who choose not to visit the forums, and don’t have great depth in their Klingon and Terran crews.
😔
Antaak to Antaak, Voq to Voq....
Kolos and Martok and Phlox, oh my....
Way to keep it to super rares. Don’t want to mention legendaries. Could offend those that don’t have any
I followed each of these AND threads from inception. Through trial & error in the last 2 Faction Events, I learned how to maximize my shuttles’ real chances for success. As a result, in this current event I have failed only 4 shuttles so far, 2 at VP=3500 and 2 at VP=4000.
I also encouraged my fleetmates to visit these forums and read for themselves, because y’all explain things much more clearly than I do. 🖖🏻
Wait, it's one thing to say all players could read the forums and be more informed. It's quite another to say that they should suffer from a bug in the game because they don't read the forums. There's been no message that says that the forums are required to manage gameplay around errors in the game.
The last time such an buggy advantage was reduced, by a game design change, everybody here in the forum was furious. Now people complain because an other shuttle bug (that had not officially been confirmed, regardless how conclusive the findings are) is not known to everybody..
I sometimes do not understand this forum.
Since I’ve worked my shuttles around the bug, I have noticed a huge difference
My comment was about players knowing of the existence of these forums. I never said that they should suffer from the bug, and of course DB should fix it to provide a level playing field. 🖖🏻