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Erin/Shan: Please look into the honour points for dismissed crew again

Jim SteeleJim Steele ✭✭✭✭✭
So I raised a thread in the old forums to discuss this (https://forums.disruptorbeam.com/stt/viewthread/64504/) and I still think its a major issue, putting most people off buying packs and leaving those who purchase packed disheartened (when the Nth Eddington drops for instance!.)

Daly honour obtained from fleet participation, completing the daily goals and now with the addition of voyages vastly outweighs the honour recieved from dismissing even legendary crew.

In order to get new crew packs have to be bought, these cost real money!

Presently I get 200 honour for dismissing a super rare crew or 650 honour for dismissing a legendary crew yet the cost to buy a citation is either 18,000 or 50,000! I can get in excess of 1000 from the daily rewards, voyages etc. yet my legendary and supe rare crew is practically worthless.

PLEASE PLEASE look into it again, I'm not asking for freebies I would just like a *reasonable* exchange rate for my duplicates so that I can invest in crew that I do have without feeling cheated!

Cheers,
Jim


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Comments

  • You're 100% right about the problem. Disagree with solution. If, at this time, DB changes the honor rates, they'll have other problems.

    But the OP has a valid point. The "honor economy" is broken, and needs to be fixed.
  • Nero84Nero84 ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't have so much an issue with the Honor system if there were weekly/monthly achievements that provided it too. I believe with all the new legendary characters that are provided on a weekly basis DB should either increase the rate in different ways (including what is suggested above) or increase the ways it is provided.

    I submitted a suggestion awhile back stating relatively the same thing that eventually purchasing packs because less of an incentive because it is so hard to max out them without spending tons and tons of money so instead of encouraging more purchasing it is actually doing the opposite because as you stated it is incredibly demoralizing and while DB will still make money off of some people who are willing to spend that type of money they lose out on the larger player base and lose out on attracting and keeping new players.
  • IrialIrial ✭✭✭✭
    Deb. wrote: »
    You're 100% right about the problem. Disagree with solution. If, at this time, DB changes the honor rates, they'll have other problems.

    But the OP has a valid point. The "honor economy" is broken, and needs to be fixed.

    Just curious if you feel it is 'broken', then what would you propose to be a good solution?
  • edited October 2017
    More value for 4/5 stars crew would be my vote.

    Having to throw away hundreds of 4/5 star characters we might have paid $5-10 or more each for just so we might be able to get a citation several months down the road is not a good exchange.

    Being able to get 1/3-1/5 of a citation for each 4 or 5 star I dismiss would make it much more worth investing in packs more regularly. I could at least make sure I get 1 character I need on every 3-5 ten packs I buy, instead of just air locking everything and saying "Oh well, that was fun".
  • Althea BiermontAlthea Biermont ✭✭✭✭✭
    One reasonable solution is to have different honor rates based on the method the crew was acquired. If it was a free crew from a reward or event, then the honor pays as it does now. If it as crew that was purchased with dilithium then maybe 10 times the current rate (at least for 4-5 star crew)
  • One reasonable solution is to have different honor rates based on the method the crew was acquired. If it was a free crew from a reward or event, then the honor pays as it does now. If it as crew that was purchased with dilithium then maybe 10 times the current rate (at least for 4-5 star crew)

    Disagree, as it was probably the purchased crew/dil/whatever currency they sell next that allowed me to win that crew.
  • I'll throw my opinion on the pile on the latest conversation re: this issue. The 200 Honor for a Super-Rare Crew is the primary reason I don't spend my dilithium for packs or $ on offers such as 10 for $10. I can't justify spending money either directly or indirectly knowing that if I get crew that is 1) already FF or 2) I can't hold on to because of crew space I am going to need to "return" that item for 1/90 of its "cost".

    It is likely that we have all dealt with real world products that have an RNG chance (whether that is baseball cards, card game boosters, blind box toys/figures, etc). And we all know that once that package is opened the value of what is in it may go up or down. But how many people would buy in the first place with a 1:90 value ratio? How many people would buy if they had to sit next to a shredder where they had to feed the item into if they did not want it or could not immediately use it? I know some people will call this a bad example or point to all of the things they buy where the exact happens but this is my personal opinion on the subject.
    Member of Rise of the Phoenix.
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know some people will call this a bad example or point to all of the things they buy where the exact happens


    Yeah - the very first example you cited - baseball cards (hockey cards for the Canadians among us). Before the days of eBay, buying pack after pack hoping for something you didn't have was the way to build your collection. A lot of what you'd get was duplicates. And the consolation price was a lousy piece of bubble gum.
  • Hey I got a simple fix to the airlock honor values. Change them as follows 1* 50 2* 100 3* 200 4* 800 5* 1600-2k. This would actually reward players who decide to gamble In a system that spits out worthless ff duplicate beholds regularly.
  • Jim SteeleJim Steele ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey I got a simple fix to the airlock honor values. Change them as follows 1* 50 2* 100 3* 200 4* 800 5* 1600-2k. This would actually reward players who decide to gamble In a system that spits out worthless ff duplicate beholds regularly.
    That would definitely be an Improvement. A 30:1 or 20:1 ratio would be better than the present 90:1 ratio.

    That's like me buying a car for 40,000$ and then selling it 1hr later for 440$.

    DB: Do Better
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »
    I know some people will call this a bad example or point to all of the things they buy where the exact happens


    Yeah - the very first example you cited - baseball cards (hockey cards for the Canadians among us). Before the days of eBay, buying pack after pack hoping for something you didn't have was the way to build your collection. A lot of what you'd get was duplicates. And the consolation price was a lousy piece of bubble gum.

    But there was the inherent worth of the card, though in many cases after the industry exploded, anything that was a common was not worth the paper it was printed on but many of the more valuable... rare as the case might be, would be inherently worth getting some commons for.
  • In my opinion the first (most important) step to a fix is a consistent ratio of dismissed crew to beholds, citations and crew at that level. For example if the ratio is 40:4:2:1 for 3 star crew it should be the same for 5 star crew.

    Variations should always be on the other side of the equation. For example:
    1* 40: 4: n/a: 1
    2* 80: 8: 4: 2
    3* 200: 20: 10: 5
    4* 600: 60: 30: 15
    5* 2000: 200: 100: 50

    This way If you dismiss 20 of any rarity of crew you can get a citation for that rarity but you still have to dismiss an ungodly number of 1 star crew to get a 5 star crew.
  • @scruffy151 That's all fine, but 20 seems a bit low, closer to 50 would be more on par I think. I do like the idea of a consistent "Any 50 crew will get you a citation" for a rarity tier, then the numbers just need to be worked so the daily honor from fleet and voyages don't skew it too much. If a 4* airlocks for 200 honor thus a citation costs 10,000 honor and I'm getting 1,000 a day from other sources that would be a bit silly.

    Also I don't understand what your 4 ratios are representing. Airlock honor to citation cost I get, but you have 4 things listed, one of which apparently doesn't apply to 1*s? I'm confused.
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  • South of SuluSouth of Sulu ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    So I am going to go the other way on this. While the amount of honor you receive for dismissed crew especially 4 and 5 star crew is pathetic, the game makes up for it by giving you honor in many different places now. Voyages and the daily honor alone has my honor climbing back up to 200,000. I have used about 110,000 so far.

    Between all honor from the junk 1,2,3* crew I get from Voyages plus actual honor you receive I think I could get enough honor to buy a 4* citation every 3 weeks without spending dilithium.
  • Hmmm...is a nerf to the other forms of obtaining honor now incoming???
  • Vyger_BorgVyger_Borg ✭✭
    edited October 2017
    +1. Ratio should be between dismissing between 2-4 of like gets like. 90:1 and even 20:1 is just an insult. The game launched as a CCG where it was impossible to trade your cards. Now it's a CCG where you can only trade your cards in with the manufacturer, who sells them essentially for $10 for a 4 star card, and devalues then upon sale to... 90 * x = $10 = $10/90 = what 11 cents per 4 star card? Some stores advertise your satisfaction or your money back. The honor system essentially advertises, $10 a pack, your satisfaction or 11 cents back. I mean, come on.

    I think the concern is that if the trade in value is too good, it becomes a way to fully star your characters too cheaply? But even at 2:1 like for like, let's say you pull a new purple card you like. To get 3 more stars on it, you'd still have to buy at least 6 more packs (with a small chance of maybe 4 or 5 packs, granted) - I think $60 for turning my virtual character from a 1/4 version into a 4/4 version is more than fair.

    I don't post much anymore, so for disclaimers, I'm VIP 10 and I've been playing since a few months post launch. A lot of the people that used to post here, I don't see anymore. I assume that's because they got tired of lighting money on fire, which is what purchasing your standard premium 10 pack becomes after playing the game for any length of time. What I'm saying is, DB would have happier customers, and make more money, if they changed this system.
  • Just as a quick add on, my for-some-time game goal has been to immortalize as many characteres as possible. I looked at my non-FF purple cards I've got hanging out clogging up inventory space in hopes of them joining the ranks of the immortals. Not even counting the ones I've already got FE'd, I counted 47 characters, 74 stars between them all. I could airlock every single one of them, and not get enough honor to put a fourth star on one of my FE'd 3/4 characters. I don't know in what universe (or timeline, am I right?) that is acceptable.
  • +1.

    I bought jet and realized I already have the exact same one. When I went back to return it, I only got a tesla model 3... not even model S. What gives?
  • XoiikuXoiiku ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    These are the current exchange ratios:
    t0l3ocgcfjt1.png

    This is a poll from 1.9/2.0 Ratio of dismissed crew to equivalent rarity honorable citation which was done on the old forums, before voyages and fleet targets.
    qnzrufetjv44.png

    Given that there was some consensus around a 10:1 (2345) or better ratio, I suggested something like this:
    0fuyxh6xgp2c.png

    For those interested, there is a wealth of discussion on the topic on the old forums, most of which is linked to from the OP of that poll and elsewhere in that thread. My view remains that the exchange rate ought to be far more equitable than it is now, with a win-win type of solution, such that pack sales are encouraged and captains are happier with the exchange rate.

    For reference, from: STAR TREK TIMELINES: What is the Honor Hall?
    Our team's primary goal with the Honor Hall was to provide greater flexibility for Captains to advance and upgrade their favorite crew...

    ...Another goal of Honor was to reduce the player frustration we recognize has been occurring when Captains open Time Portal packs and find a bunch of duplicate crew...
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  • @scruffy151 That's all fine, but 20 seems a bit low, closer to 50 would be more on par I think. I do like the idea of a consistent "Any 50 crew will get you a citation" for a rarity tier, then the numbers just need to be worked so the daily honor from fleet and voyages don't skew it too much. If a 4* airlocks for 200 honor thus a citation costs 10,000 honor and I'm getting 1,000 a day from other sources that would be a bit silly.

    Also I don't understand what your 4 ratios are representing. Airlock honor to citation cost I get, but you have 4 things listed, one of which apparently doesn't apply to 1*s? I'm confused.

    airlock: behold: citation: crew

    The numbers do need more attention, particularly the amount of honor. I think the ratio I stated is ok however I can see the argument for a tighter grouping between beholds citations and crew.
  • Jim SteeleJim Steele ✭✭✭✭✭
    Q15: Are you planning on reviewing honor costs, so we either get more honor for dismissing crew or citations/etc cost less?
    A15: We're not planning on any changes to Honor costs. Our goal with the Honor Hall was to allow players greater value (compared to before) when dismissing crew and allow players new paths to collect and invest in their favorite crew. We understand that players would like to earn more Honor for dismissing crew, but Honor was designed to be accrued gradually over time. With that said, we do keep a close eye on how Honor is earned and redeemed.
    Clearly no intention to change things!

    I am abstaining from buying this weeks pack due to high chance of Fail. I already have Lore FFFE so buying a pack for 10$ worth of Dilithium for potentially zero crew just makes absolutely no sense!
    DB: Do Better
  • I have Lore FF, but none of the others in the pack. Bought on and got Winn.
  • Winn is a terrible 5* but at least she is decent in the gauntlet.
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  • It would be great if Erin could answer how the Honor system is addressing the stated goal of reducing player frustration with opening packs and getting duplicates because it is clearly not as far as I am concerned. The alternate streams of honor are clearly great but all that means is that the already minimal honor reward for dismissing crew is close to worthless again. If DB is NOT going to address the Honor system itself then they SHOULD be looking for some kind of alternate reward for dismissing crew. My vote is for something along the lines of the Sorry Portal which they have now demonstrated is within their capability range. Dismiss x number of crew gets you y number of pulls for the same rarity crew.
    Member of Rise of the Phoenix.
  • Jim SteeleJim Steele ✭✭✭✭✭
    If DB is NOT going to address the Honor system itself then they SHOULD be looking for some kind of alternate reward for dismissing crew. My vote is for something along the lines of the Sorry Portal which they have now demonstrated is within their capability range. Dismiss x number of crew gets you y number of pulls for the same rarity crew.
    Coming up with another system to address the situation is not the answer. I would likely just end up air-locking the crew that I had been given in the new pulls further diluting their value. They have a system in place, but poor implementation


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  • Honestly, I would just take beholds omitting immortalized crew at this point.
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  • [BL] Q [BL] Q ✭✭✭✭✭
    An 8hr voyage for 90 dil gives more Honor and crew to airlock for more honor than purchasing a pack 650 dil and airlocking the "guaranteed super rare" it's poor judgment just like sinking money into The Walking Dead franchise that multiple studios have a game for and joining the market when it's into its seventh season.
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm beginning to think they just need to fine tune premium packs a bit. Like give a little bit of honour for just buying a pack where you get the feel of getting a specific amount of honour for 650 dil. Event packs would be exempt because you buy those to get ahead in an upcoming event.

    I seem to be getting a decent amount of honour per day. Probably 1500-2000 from rewards, voyages and 90K pulls. I can get a 4* citation in about 10 days usually although that doesn't seem to quite keep up with the random 1/4's from Voyages. The demands of 4* immortalization are inhibiting me from getting 5* citations.
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  • pbertpbert ✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think they just need to fine tune premium packs a bit. Like give a little bit of honour for just buying a pack where you get the feel of getting a specific amount of honour for 650 dil. Event packs would be exempt because you buy those to get ahead in an upcoming event.

    I like the thought, but I think the point of Honor rewards for dismissing characters is to give the players a choice: keep the character or get closer to improving another one. On the face of it it actually seems like a nice offer from DB, but the problem is the Honor is never worth it unless you already have that character FF.

    So maybe they could increase rate of 4* characters (and thus giving a little more honor)? Players can get so many for free right now, that 1.1ish average (assuming the other 9 single pulls drop a 4* 10% of the time) for $5 is steep. Even if the Honor reward is still low, that might provide more incentive to low spending long time players and a little boost for the people who have most 4* FF.

    Back when they launched Honor I had a rough estimate (that I'm now slightly adjusting) of avg. 6 3*, 1.1 4*, and 0.1 5* per pack. That comes out to 875 Honor. Even after airlocking all crew from packs you wouldn't get a 5* citation until 37,000 dilithium spent or a 4* citation after 13,650 dilithium spent. Both are well above the cost offered in the faction stores for possibly new crew (which for a 4* as stated above are already steep). I'll note that these two purchase paths are different because faction stores rotate through characters, but taking into account the other methods for getting legendaries & super rares are cheaper ($100 for 2/5 event characters, $25 double up offer and the amount of free 4* just floating around wherever it is voyages go) I think the faction store prices are a decent comparison point.
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