I remember this being a hot topic last year I think. I vaguely remember some players took their own small sample size. Since then though, bugged, fixed, somewhere in the middle... who knows? I found the thread from awhile ago...
Some announcement, any announcement, might quench the flames of a potential dumpster fire.
*beating drum and chanting*
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I remember this being a hot topic last year I think. I vaguely remember some players took their own small sample size. Since then though, bugged, fixed, somewhere in the middle... who knows? I found the thread from awhile ago...
Since the AND issue was explicitly brought to light, I have nearly eliminated the discrepancy between predicted (displayed) percentages and actual outcomes by paying attention to the first/second skill order (per the player-suggested solution). Like everyone else, I used to consistently get 15-20% worse outcomes than the display. Now my range is typically within 5% of the prediction, which is perfectly reasonable for the sample size in an event (~100 post-kickstart shuttles).
Until I read something that convinces me that the formula has been corrected (to high-low, not first-second), I will continue to follow the skill-order-matters guidance.
Since the AND issue was explicitly brought to light, I have nearly eliminated the discrepancy between predicted (displayed) percentages and actual outcomes by paying attention to the first/second skill order (per the player-suggested solution). Like everyone else, I used to consistently get 15-20% worse outcomes than the display. Now my range is typically within 5% of the prediction, which is perfectly reasonable for the sample size in an event (~100 post-kickstart shuttles).
Until I read something that convinces me that the formula has been corrected (to high-low, not first-second), I will continue to follow the skill-order-matters guidance.
+1. Exactly this. To be honest, the bug does not bother me as much (any more) as the lack of response from “the team”, which is what I presume @Shan is awaiting. 🖖🏻
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Throwing in my 2 cents again on this. I would really like to know if I can change the calculations on my spreadsheet to reflect high-low or keep it the way it is. It calculates first+(second/4) and second+(first/4) for the reverse. I know there have been many times that I didn't use a card because the skills were reversed, but if it was high-low I would have. I really feel i'm getting cheated at this point.
As someone who has been discouraged from delving into the issue by the muddiness surrounding it, what is the AND problem exactly? I seem to recall at one point you didn't actually need both skills, but I don't want to further confuse anyone with my own half-memories.
As someone who has been discouraged from delving into the issue by the muddiness surrounding it, what is the AND problem exactly? I seem to recall at one point you didn't actually need both skills, but I don't want to further confuse anyone with my own half-memories.
I have a feeling that there are AND issues on galaxy events too. Last galaxy event was a nightmare.
AND is apparently meant to be calculated differently in galaxy events for some reason. I recall seeing that it is supposed to be the average of the 2 stats.
As someone who has been discouraged from delving into the issue by the muddiness surrounding it, what is the AND problem exactly? I seem to recall at one point you didn't actually need both skills, but I don't want to further confuse anyone with my own half-memories.
Last fall, DB updated how "AND" slots were supposed to be scored. Instead of averaging the two skills, they indicated they would use the higher of the two skills and then add 25% of the lower skill as a bonus.
The front-end displayed percentages seemed to agree with this new formula. However, lots of people complained about getting bad results. "RNG whining" is nothing new to the forum, but, eventually, people started generating actual statistics that showed there was almost certainly something wrong "somewhere" (even if it was difficult to identify).
Over the course of weeks/months, the AND slot behavior was identified and the linked thread above are research results where some people loaded AND slots "backwards". That is, if the slot was SKILL 1 AND SKILL 2, they would send a character with just SKILL 2. These missions saw an enormous increase in failures as opposed to AND slots loaded "forwards".
Essentially, there was a disconnect between the displayed expected success rate and the actually mission success calculation. The front end expected rate was using the newly advertised formula and the back end mission success was, instead, using FIRST/SECOND skill instead of HIGHER/LOWER.
Shan eventually posts that she has created a ticket and the team is looking into it. A month or so later, they release a "shuttle revamp" which introduced a new success/fail screen along with additional rewards on failure. Additionally, it appears the Front/Back end discrepancy has gone away.
DB has yet to acknowledge they changed anything in regards to shuttle success rates. Had it not taken such an effort from the community to demonstrate the error, I don't think there would be nearly as much frustration or expectations. Because it took so much community-generated evidence for DB to even bother investigating, we kind of expect them to share their findings with the community and at least admit that, yes, there was a problem.
Shan,
Last faction event you said that you had no updates about the open faction event shuttle bug, even after a major overhaul of the shuttle mechanics/screens. I have 2 questions as always on behalf of the community, please answer both so we don't have to keep raising this every event:
1) Is there an official update regarding your investigation and actions?
2) If there is no update, do we still have a commitment from you to receive one, or has DB officially decided to reneg on that commitment?
Frankly this + no portal update = decrease in my spending.
Passed up everything other than the DYC for the mega this month, and that was just so I could give my squad a boost on the faction side.
May start passing those up next.
Unfortunately, I think that is what it is going to take. When the whale's started boycotting spending DB listened. Until they refuse to spend without an answer here, DB will continue to think that lying to the players is their best approach.
What leads me to believe there’s truth to it is usually they get on here and say something about not feeding into speculation or continuing to perpetuate rumors or falsehoods. I’ve seen none of that in regards to this issue
I love how when a 'bug' might give players an advantage (such as in Skrimishes) they are quick to pounce on making sure it gets squashed and nerfed. But when it's something like this that really impacted folks negatively, it took months to cure and little or no acknowledgement. I feel the love.
Comments
Time to start beating the drum again for an Official Statment.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5097/edit-final-results-2nd-experiment-results-and-shuttles-are-absolutely-bugged/p1
Some announcement, any announcement, might quench the flames of a potential dumpster fire.
*beating drum and chanting*
Well yes, that was the thread and data I pulled together, that’s why I keep asking for a response.
Until I read something that convinces me that the formula has been corrected (to high-low, not first-second), I will continue to follow the skill-order-matters guidance.
+1. Exactly this. To be honest, the bug does not bother me as much (any more) as the lack of response from “the team”, which is what I presume @Shan is awaiting. 🖖🏻
All covered in the first post of this thread...
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5097/edit-final-results-2nd-experiment-results-and-shuttles-are-absolutely-bugged/p1
AND is apparently meant to be calculated differently in galaxy events for some reason. I recall seeing that it is supposed to be the average of the 2 stats.
Last fall, DB updated how "AND" slots were supposed to be scored. Instead of averaging the two skills, they indicated they would use the higher of the two skills and then add 25% of the lower skill as a bonus.
The front-end displayed percentages seemed to agree with this new formula. However, lots of people complained about getting bad results. "RNG whining" is nothing new to the forum, but, eventually, people started generating actual statistics that showed there was almost certainly something wrong "somewhere" (even if it was difficult to identify).
Over the course of weeks/months, the AND slot behavior was identified and the linked thread above are research results where some people loaded AND slots "backwards". That is, if the slot was SKILL 1 AND SKILL 2, they would send a character with just SKILL 2. These missions saw an enormous increase in failures as opposed to AND slots loaded "forwards".
Essentially, there was a disconnect between the displayed expected success rate and the actually mission success calculation. The front end expected rate was using the newly advertised formula and the back end mission success was, instead, using FIRST/SECOND skill instead of HIGHER/LOWER.
Shan eventually posts that she has created a ticket and the team is looking into it. A month or so later, they release a "shuttle revamp" which introduced a new success/fail screen along with additional rewards on failure. Additionally, it appears the Front/Back end discrepancy has gone away.
DB has yet to acknowledge they changed anything in regards to shuttle success rates. Had it not taken such an effort from the community to demonstrate the error, I don't think there would be nearly as much frustration or expectations. Because it took so much community-generated evidence for DB to even bother investigating, we kind of expect them to share their findings with the community and at least admit that, yes, there was a problem.
Passed up everything other than the DYC for the mega this month, and that was just so I could give my squad a boost on the faction side.
May start passing those up next.
*crickets*
The comment will be to close the thread, which would speak volumes.
They better say nothing.